SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I feel for you. I really do. Very, very, very sad for everyone involved. Your AP replaced your husband in your heart and he never wanted any space there in the first place. He ONLY wanted what was down below your waist, not above it.

Your husband holds the cards, but I'm not sure he'll even issue you a hand to play, for fear you can't be trusted. Should the divorce go through, I'm not sure you will be around long enough to see him heal significantly, for two reasons.

One, you are the source of his pain, and therefor his healing may only begin taking place after you are gone. Second, if the divorce takes place in a few months, it my not provide you with enough time to see the healing that can take place with just time passing by.

Thank you for sharing. Here are a few thoughts.

1) I did not confess to my husband.

During my affair these dates were involved, xmas, my birthday, my husband birthday, my kid's birthday, San Valentin, he keeps saying that I didn't leave any thread of the rope to hold to.

I think you have a good handle on the significance of damage you caused. If there was a 10-point check list for the worst case scenario a ws could impart upon their spouse, your affair checks every box, plus some. He's emasculated by every sense of the word. Only time will allow him to heal himself. You will have to ask him what you can do, but I would be pissed at the fact that you are even asking, but that's me, not him.

2) You seem as if you have let go of the outcome, which by all accounts is divorce. If correct, good on your part here. Sometimes, the pain is so great, there's nothing a spouse can do except disappear and and agree to stay disappeared. Some WS can only recover if not in the company of the BS, as their mere presence is a constant reminder that you are no longer his special person and in fact, gave to someone else what he considered his and the other guy didn't even have to work too hard at it. This infuriates him for sure. Just giving you a BS thought process here. Some you may already know, but hopefully I can provide something new.

3) I don't know how to express my feelings to him. I don't know how to express my feelings to him. I want to tell him so much that I say nothing. I want to tell him I love him so much.

The 'I don't know how' and the 'I want' is surprising considering the pain you allegedly feel. This is a real problem if you can't get yourself to say these words to a person that obviously needs them, even if his hurt is so painful, that he refuses them. You may want to examine this very hard, as you will once again be in a relationship after your divorce and communicative authenticity is very important for your future relationships, as this area is what failed you this time around. No sense in repeating it in the future.

4) He doesn't believe that oral sex and anal sex never took place, he says that usually people having affairs go wild, well I didn't, I actually felt good with the kissing and hugging but not with the sex.

It sounds as if you are surprised or frustrated at him not believing you. You have to know that this is an impossibility, right? One of the biggest issues with lying is when a liar tells the truth, the person listening has no basis to believe it. That's the cost and consequence. Trust is gone, so effective communication goes with it. Just a fact of the residual impact of deceit.

In summary, you have to find the courage to defeat whatever's in you that holds you back from telling the truth or not communicating what's in your heart (IF IT'S THERE) and to tell the truth. You have a problem being authentic and it has caused you your marriage and family.

If that's not enough for you to see the seriousness of your issues, I don't know what is. You have to rid of "I want to" and "can't". I can't impress upon you how deep the pain is for him. You not only betrayed him, but rejected and disrespected him in the process, even after D-day.

All BS have one, two or three specific elements of an affair that keeps them up at night. Your husband has a large amount, topped off by the fact that since he caught you, he's reasoning is you'd still be in the affair and would have left him for your AP. I don't quite find this in your story, but it seems as if your mercy and love for your husband's feelings only came about after it was apparent that you meant nothing to the AP. Is this accurate?

As a man, I wish I could talk with WW right prior to an affair. Many men want sex. However they can get it, they will. Please, please ladies. Just remember this. Whatever they have to do, they will do. Saying, you're pretty, smart, agree with you, compliment you. Provide attention. It's ALL IN THE NAME OF SEX. If you really want to find out if sincerity is present, deny sex and see if they stick around.

As a man, I wish I could talk with WW right prior to an affair. Many men want sex. However they can get it, they will. Please, please ladies. Just remember this. Whatever they have to do, they will do. Saying, you're pretty, smart, agree with you, compliment you. Provide attention. It's ALL IN THE NAME OF SEX. If you really want to find out if sincerity is present, deny sex and see if they stick around.

This should literally be a sticky. Yes, I know that people will disagree, and I'm also well aware that not all A's are the same and that sometimes it's women who are acting as Jorge said above. However, absent VERY STRONG (he left his wife, is living on his own, you've seen filed D papers) evidence, any woman engaged with a married man HAS TO operate from the above assumption. Because it's often the truth. If you're entering into an A for NSA sex, OK, you're probably going to get that, and you will probably enjoy it. You're still a crap partner, and still have a ton of work to do on yourself, but I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that A's don't provide that, they do, story after story here tells us that.

But, if you're not. If you're entering into an A for love, caring, respect, find a new H/W, soulmate.. You are almost never going to get it. You have a better chance at hitting the lottery. And the fallout will be exactly the same as the person who entered in it for sex, in fact, it'll be worse because not only will your BS be devastated, you'll also have all the internal issues of "lost love" to deal with. Men I know who have A's know the "score". If they get caught, it's like one smooth motion, AP becomes a harlot of chased him forever, threw herself at him. W becomes the center of the universe. They try to make it up to her; and they immediately chuck the OW and never look back. Then stop and pick up flowers and jewelry on the way home for their wives. Yes, the sex was fun, but the price to keep having that sex (D, ongoing martial problems, etc) is too high. Cost/benefit analysis complete, OW has to go. And go they do, in the most vicious ways you can imagine.

The last part, Jorge, is so right. People ask all the time "how can I tell if my OM loves me". It's real easy. "Nothing physical until I see signed divorce papers/until you've filed and moved out". That's it. That'll tell you if this is a hunt for some sex on the side (hint, almost all the time it is) or if it's a hunt for a new partner/wife. That's all you have to do to know and to keep your A from going PA, which, if your H is anything like me, I can promise you, is the part that destroys him.

If that's not enough for you to see the seriousness of your issues, I don't know what is. You have to rid of "I want to" and "can't". I can't impress upon you how deep the pain is for him. You not only betrayed him, but rejected and disrespected him in the process, even after D-day.

You wanted to sleep with the OM, and.. You did.. You can't take lovers while married and.. You did. This is a quick way of saying, yes you can and no, you don't want to, or don't want to enough. There are lots of simple (but not necessarily easy) ways that my W could help me heal from the A. She's done some, others she hasn't. It's because she doesn't want to ENOUGH. You can do anything you want, and you if you want something enough, you work to make it happen. You might not like what that means, but it's not because you can't. It's because you won't. It's a absolutely critical distinction; and it's extremely empowering, the future is yours to make. You decide, am I all in, or am I just looking to make a show of it before D so I can say "I tried"? A lot of WS's, IMHO, fall into the second category. They don't go all in, they want to check some boxes so that if they D their concise is "clear". But, if they are honest with themselves, laying awake at night, they know; they didn't give it their all. You get to decide, and there's no right/wrong answer here. You can try to R without going all in, and it might work. You can go all in, and while your chances for R go up dramatically, you might still wind up D'd. There are no guarantees here; but, there are also not promises that the next man you meet will be 1/2 the man your H is. So you have to make a decision. What you can't do though is say "I'm all in" and then not be all in. That'll put you into limbo, you'll likely wind up D'd, and your H will be bitter about it forever (or at least I would be).

Thanks Jorge and rideitout for your comments. I know the damage have caused my husband is irreparably. I know I have destroyed him and his existence with my actions. It hurts. I completely understand that the trust he had on me is gone and that nothing I say or do is creditable because of my lies and deceit. I do have a lot of work to do on myself and I am ALL IN regardless if my husband gives me a second chance or not. I do want to become a better person for me and my family. I do want to help my husband heal.I do love my husband even though the way I have acted during the affair do not shows otherwise. Thank you again for all your advice.

[This message edited by Cerda at 1:01 PM, July 5th (Thursday)]

The things you did caused major damage, as others have said. Not much you can do but be there for him. I also believe that if the AP had wanted you, you would have ended your marriage and left your husband. Am I right? He knows you did not want him. He knows you preferred the AP over him. That is something that he will have to address. If this is not true, how can you show him that he is first in your heart? It is almost an impossibility in your case. But you should try. I will pray for you.

Thanks WilliamM, I never thought about ending my marriage. I know all the things I did during the affair does not support that. Just to clarify, that during those dates I was having an affair but is not like I spent those dates with the AP, if it make sense.

I don't know how to express my feelings to him. I don't know how to express my feelings to him. I want to tell him so much that I say nothing. I want to tell him I love him so much.

Is this still true? Have you expressed your feelings to him, or have you allowed yourself to say nothing? Lastly, and this may or may not be important. If your AP asked you to come with him, would you have gone? I'm asking this for a reason.

If your answer is yes, then he may ask how then can you say you love me when you were prepared to leave me for him. If we're seeking authenticity, then you will have to answer really tough questions and each time you answer a tough question, is an opportunity for him to see the courage to answer questions you were unable to answer, previously and even now perhaps.

If you want to change, the start can be within the next hour or next time you speak to him. As you can see, it would sound hypocritical if you say you love him, but 30 days ago, told your then boyfriend you loved him and was prepared to leave your husband as evidence.

You just want to think these questions through as you have nothing to lose now. If he's asking questions, it might be a very slight opening, so you want to be prepared for them the best you can. If he has no questions, then it might mean he's indifferent and uncaring. Why ask questions if the answers are meaningless regarding the future.

Nothing's etched in stone here. He could be asking questions to simply voice his disbelief in the situation he finds himself in and trying to logically explain to himself an illogical, life changing set of events that took place in mere months. He's confused and in trauma type shock, not sure what hit him and why.

Honesty (regardless how embarrassing and shameful the answers make you feel like) giving him room and most importantly, RESPECT is your focus at this point. It's one thing to not be loved and another to not be love or respected. Your disrespect for him can be given back through words of truth and humility, which I'm feeling you possess at this moment.

Lastly, wallowing in your own pain and pity, will not remedy his pain, although him seeing you in may provide him with some comfort that you are experiencing it on some level, although not close to the level of his. Initiate words of love regardless of his response to you. But you have to mean it. Don't say it if you don't. Perhaps research infidelity therapist on his behalf and ask him if you can make an appointment for him.

Get tested for STD's and make an appointment for him to do so also. If you withheld sex for the entirety of your affair, rethink this as it will certainly trigger a response in which he says, what do I need a test for when you gave your AP all the sex and gave me none even when I asked.

Bottom line here is be ultra proactive in words and actions and reasonably accommodating in your response to the divorce. You must think from his perspective and be humble and patient with a person that has no humbleness or patience with you.

I never thought about ending my marriage.

For as long that I've been on SI, the quote above has been repeated hundreds or thousands of times and I still do not understand how this is possible. How is it that while in an emotional and physical affair, when your love is directed towards a lover and lost love is directed towards a husband, that the marriage ending was not a thought?

I still can't get my arms around this. I've never cheated on my wife, for various reasons, all of which are good, but the one that is front and center for me is that my affair would be the end of my relationship with my wife. The first thing I think about when I'm with a woman alone is, what if my wife sees us.

I was being trained by an attractive woman a couple of months ago and I told my wife where, when, why etc., even though if I hadn't told her, she wouldn't even know anything. I just immediately thought about my wife when I spoke to the trainer and was with her. I'm hyper aware of my wife, so I'm just not understanding how total unawareness of the spouse and marriage takes place.

I'm not asking you to answer this Cerda, I'm just sounding off out of frustration as to how this possibly can take place. It's like saying, I shot this person, but didn't realize they would die. How is this humanly possible?

Thanks again Jorge for all your advice.

If your AP asked you to come with him, would you have gone? During my fantasy bobble we talked about uniting the 2 families, meaning the Kids which now seems very stupid to me. I would've not left my husband for the AP.I know during those 5 months I acted like if I did not have a family. I regret acting this way. I know I have no choice but to accept the consequences and let my husband decide and that would mean the Divorce even though this not what I would prefer. I was tested for STDs a few days later. Also, my husband is seeing an IC that specializes in infidelity.

[This message edited by Cerda at 1:53 PM, July 5th (Thursday)]

Thanks again Jorge for all your advice.

If your AP asked you to come with him, would you have gone? During my fantasy bobble we talked about uniting the 2 families, meaning the Kids which now seems very stupid to me. I would've not leave my husband for the AP.I know during those 5 months I acted like if I did not have a family. I regret acting this way. I know I have no choice but to accept the consequences and let my husband decide and that would mean the Divorce even though this not what I would prefer.

If this is how you feel, do not concede divorce. You can comply with his wishes, but also fight for him and your marriage IF YOU REALLY WANT IT. Do not give up that easy. Remember, he fought for you during those 5 months. It made no difference, but in retrospect he showed you he loved you enough to fight for you. That's the man he is. If you love him and want to remain married, fight all the way up to the time your signature is needed. Show him as he showed you when he tried to re-win his wife back.

[This message edited by Jorge at 1:58 PM, July 5th (Thursday)]

Jorge, your words mean so much to me. I do want to keep my marriage because I do love my husband. I will do whatever it takes. Thanks you so much for your words of encouragement.

Yes, fight for it. For me my wife proposed and planned our second wedding in Jamaica. She did everything. Not saying thid is what you should do, but do fight.

I have to concur with Jorge, if you truly want the marriage, then show him with actions until the very end.

For 5 months your husband kept trying win your heart against you being cold and cruel. Now's your chance to do some fighting. All of the energy you used to put into sneaking around with Mr Wonderful can instead be put into saving your family.

Even if he pulls the plug on the D, there can still be a reconciliation after in a new marriage.

Thank you all for being so supportive. I will fight until the end.

Cerda, BS here. For some reason I hear in your posts a glimmer of hope that you may be able to convince your BH to pursue R. Let me suggest that you read the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald.

Do everything in that book. Be proactive, not passive. If your BH has it in his heart to try R with you, one thing he wants, I guarantee, is to feel like you are fighting for him.

Thanks Butforthegrace. My husband actually bought this book and I have read it a few times. Thanks for your advice.

[This message edited by Cerda at 10:19 PM, July 5th (Thursday)]

I told him that I felt in love with the AP, that he was not jealous, easy going, that I was heard and validated by the AP,

This is standard approach by the gamers. It did not cost him a dime to say these.

If you became remorseful after the D papers were filed it may not look good in BS eyes. It is common advise in the forum to take concrete steps like filing to open the eyes of th WS

[This message edited by goalong at 8:06 AM, July 6th (Friday)]

Yes, fight for it. For me my wife proposed and planned our second wedding in Jamaica. She did everything. Not saying thid is what you should do, but do fight.

I'll just give you another BH here to say the same thing. Fight. Fight until you can't fight anymore. Even if he does D you, keep fighting. The battle isn't over until someone is dead or remarried.

Honestly, for me, 90% of the A recovery comes down to 2 things. Be honest with me (about everything, the A, your feelings, our life together, what you want, etc) and show me I'm the one you want, not the AP. They are equally important in my mind, but they kind of come in that order, you can't show me I matter more if you're still lying or hiding things. But the basic advice I'd give, is go above and beyond. Whatever time you spent with the AP, spend more with your H. Be more loving an physical (sexual) with your H. Show him he matters MORE than the AP did. You, like most WS probably went to amazing lengths to have and hide an A. Go further for your WS, whatever that means for him. And do it in his love language. If you don't know, figure it out, but if his love language is words of affirmation and you e-mailed a lot with the AP, e-mail with your H more, and tell him more than you did the AP about how special and wonderful he is to you. If it's acts of service, make his life easy, do lots of nice things for him, beyond what you did for the AP. And if it's physical touch.. Well.. We have very long threads about that rolling through here (let me know if you'd like me to find them for you), but, as someone who's LL is that (any it's a pretty common one for men), I can only say, be everything he could possibly desire physically that doesn't deeply conflict with your moral compass.

But the basic advice I'd give, is go above and beyond

Show him he matters MORE than the AP did

.

Go further for your WS, whatever that means for him.

If you don't know, figure it out, but if his love language is words of affirmation and you e-mailed a lot with the AP, e-mail with your H more, and tell him more than you did the AP about how special and wonderful he is to you.

If it's acts of service, make his life easy, do lots of nice things for him, beyond what you did for the A

Cerda - Rideitout has a theme in his post and I wanted to highlight it so that it doesn't get lost in the overall message. As you can see,the playbook for you is simple; your actions towards your husband should exceed what they were for your AP in every way..... more, beyond, further .....you get the idea.

One question or concern I have for you is your ability to voice what's in your heart and head. You admittedly have not found it in you to communicate expressions of love or desire, even after D-Day. This suggests to me you may be worried about his response, maybe? Have you overcome this inability to communicate what's in your heart, or does it still linger?

If you are concerned about his response, you will not win. You must communicate what you feel and what you want regardless of his protest, negativity, disgruntlement, nastiness, etc. You must defy all responses and persevere. Again, your husband did this for 5 months, so you're doing nothing more than what he's already done.

You have an unusual amount of BH's support here. To your credit, it's because you have taken full responsibility. Credit to you for doing so. If you can tame a website full of BH's, then you have a chance of winning your husband's heart back over time. It will take a while, for sure.By the way, If your husband provided you with a book to read, that's a good sign. An indifferent husband could care less what you read.

Thank you again Jorge. My husband has bought a few books. He also bought Just Friends and After the Affar. I do believe his love language is Words of Affirmation. I am having a hard time saying those words to him, I love you and I miss you because I also said those same words to the AP and I am afraid he will take them as an insult.

I am having a hard time saying those words to him, I love you and I miss you because I also said those same words to the AP and I am afraid he will take them as an insult.

He will. Keep saying it. Everyone, or almost everyone, has exactly this problem after an A. His LL is words of affirmation, of course everything you say to him he's going to think "she said that to the AP". And he might (probably will be) right. There are only so many ways to say I love you, only so many ways to have physical intimacy (my LL), only so many acts of service. So, if you go to "I did it with the AP, so I won't my H because it will trigger him", you'll find your options very limited and your H (or BS in general) very unhappy. Consistency here is key. He might be snide, he might look sad when you say it the first time, but, whatever it is, if you're feeling it for him, say it. And keep saying it. Reclaim those words (or physical things, or acts of service, or whatever) for your relationship. If you said "Your so handsome" to the AP 10 times, make sure your H hears it 100. But, above all, be consistent. It's not going to be something you say once and all is well (not that I think you believe that); you just have to keep doing it/saying it until its "yours" (you and the BH's) again rather than theirs (you and the AP).

And if there's any way to do it, try to say more intimate/special/dangerous things to him than you did the AP. Sometimes there isn't, you "said it all" to the AP and all you can do is repeat the lines, or "did it all" (sexually) with the AP, so there no new ground to cover. But if there isn't, and there's something you think you husband would like to hear from you, say that.

Do not, DO NOT let your fears get in the way. Your fears will come true if you don't "put it out there", I can nearly promise you that. And your H will likely read it like I would; your afraid to tell me how special I am to you because I might get upset, but weren't afraid to sneak off in a corner somewhere and sleep with the AP (my personal situation, not yours)? You have to act without fear, or the way I like to say it, "dance like nobody is watching". Your husbands worst fears have been realized, you had an A. There's no fear beyond that for him, you have to view it the same way. I was willing to tell the AP how wonderful he was even though it could cost me everything. And I'm afraid my husband will get upset if I do the same? That makes no sense (I know how it feels, but it's not the same for him). You took a huge risk to have an A, telling your H you love him, or having some kinky sex with him (my situation again) is a minuscule risk compared to the A, they don't even rate on the same scale of "dangerous". You were fearless during the A. Be fearless now for your H.