SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What did he want you to do?

Maybe offer to GPS your location and him being able to visit you at that location randomly. If he's willing, maybe offer to take him everywhere you go. Maybe offer to install (you cover the cost) a camera on your dashboard, to prove where you are at all times. Seems far fetched, but the effort is probably equal to the effort you put in to deceive and hide your infidelity, so using that as a standard, what we're talking about is probably reasonable.

For his ego, he doesn't believe anything I say.

Not sure what his ego and not believing you have in common. His reason for disbelieving you seems justified, not ego driven. Just wanted to point this out.

By "ego" I'm referring to his abilities in the bedroom. So if I tell him he's good in bed (which I do truly mean) he doesn't believe me.

I work in the medical field so having cameras or other video means of documentation breaks HIPPA laws and could get me fired and barred from my field. I'm rarely in my car so a dashboard cam would be pretty useless. I have GPS on my phone which is on at all times. But I can easily "leave" my phone somewhere do my cheating (which I'm not) and then go back to the phone and he wouldn't be able to know the difference. I would love to do ANYTHING to prove to him that I'm no longer cheating.

Can I get the "stop" sign removed? I am open to suggestions from betrayed spouses for ideas on:

A. Physically proving fidelity

and

B. Providing restitution for years of infidelity

CausedChaos,

I removed the Stop Sign for you

A. Physically proving fidelity

and

B. Providing restitution for years of infidelity

This is like one of those Zen koans one muses over in the interstices between other tasks, sort of a buzz hovering just behind conscious thought. I do that a lot with concept questions. Often this allows the "a-ha moment" to present itself to me.

Unfortunately, after pondering this for some time, I have had no a-ha moment for your question 1. I honestly cannot think of a single way to actually prove -- in the scientific sense -- sexual/physical fidelity. Well, I can think of ludicrous/ridiculous ways, like the medieval chastity belt, but I cannot conceive of any way of proving this that is reasonable/practical.

I think it is one of those ephemeral matters of the heart. Which in a way it should be. If you and your BH are going to successfully R, one thing that will need to be restored between you is trust. If the two of you cannot figure out a way to get him to see you as trustworthy, then you might as well move on, quite frankly.

As to question 2, the answer is easy: there is no way. Imagine intentionally inflicting a traumatic physical injury on your BH. Say he is a dedicated runner, but one night in his sleep without any warning you smash one of his knees with a sledgehammer. Not only is he in incredible pain, requiring extensive medical treatment, but the injury will permanently prevent him from running again, taking this joy from him forever. And he will always walk with a bad limp, and his knee will throb and ache from time to time, such as when it is cold and damp.

How could you provide restitution for that? Smash your own knee? That would do nothing for his pain and loss. Go swimming with him regularly as an alternative form of exercise? He may actually come to enjoy swimming and the times shared, but the part of his heart that loved running will always be empty, for the rest of his life. The swimming can never get to that part.

I think the best you can do is to be the shoulder he leans on to get around on those days where the pain in his leg makes it difficult for him to do it on his own. For that to succeed, you need to show him that you are reliable and up to this task, that if he leans on you, you'll be able to support his weight.

This is of course metaphorical, but I use it as an illustration because it is linked conceptually to the process of establishing the trust necessary to overcome your first question. In both cases, it comes down to a matter of trust. The paradox of R from and A is that the WW must somehow show the BH that he can trust her, even though she is the one who sucker-punched him. I've not read your other threads so I don't know the details of your A, but in this thread you allude to a TT process, which is possibly the most effective way to kill trust in a betrayed spouse. In addition to the TT, most A's involve considerable dishonesty by the WS during the A in addition to the betrayal.

Quite simply, your BH has no reason to trust you, on any point, at this stage. In particular, he will not trust you on the point of desiring him sexually. In his mind, your A was a statement by you that you chose another man sexually over him. After all, the POSOM presumably knew the truth about you (that you were married and cheating), but you lied to your BH about it. In other words, you were more honest, and therefore more intimate, with another man than you were with your BH. I don't know if your A was discovered by him or if you confessed on your own. If it was discovered by him, this specific point is now branded on his heart and will likely be there forever.

To return to my metaphor, he just woke up from what was a peaceful sleep, body raging in searing pain, only to see you standing over him in bed with the sledgehammer you just used to smash his knee to bits. Why would he trust you as you stand there looking at him with the sledgehammer still in your hands?

Oh, and by the way, the sledgehammer metaphor was useful for illustration purposes, but for a lot of men, the injury of a wife's betrayal strikes about 2 feet above the knee, and it feels like a combination of a knife through one part and a welding torch to the others. The man wakes up to see his WW standing there holding the bloody knife in one hand, and the blazing torch in the other, shedding a tear and asking him to trust her.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 2:12 PM, August 11th (Saturday)]

Hi! I hate to say this, but this is the silver bullet alls BS and WS alike would love to have, except it does not exist.

You can not physically prove fidelity without his presence at all times or possibly his most trusted confidant.

Providing restitution for years of infidelity? Can't be done. How do you compensate someone for a false life? Consider - even if you do or have told him everything, he is always going to have some level of doubt. What he knew was real, and his life, wasn't. This dissociation, this jerk, causes him to doubt everyone and everything, including his friends and family.

There are all kinds of great ideas out there - go read the other forums and you'll see what each and every bs is looking for. I'd put together a list, but like your hubby, I wanted to see my spouse put in the effort. I know she couldn't heal me, but I wanted to see and know that she was moving heaven and earth for my benefit.

If you want any chance, quit the job and sell the car.

Decide which is more important to you and do it. Ne excuses.

I'm waiting to hear from a job next week. If I get the job, awesome. IF not, I plan on quitting. Then I will figure out the car situation.

I understand what you all are saying. I recognize that there is no way I can prove it. I recognize that I can never make up for my actions. But if I do not do SOMETHING tangible, he will view it as me "not changing". That I do not "want" our marriage bad enough.

How did your wife "move heaven and earth", Veryconfused? Or was she unable to meet your requests?

This has been the most helpful post for me. I just wanted to say thanks to everyone that shared ideas and discussions.

From your posts I gather he is angry, and frustrated. Frustrated anger. This is very normal at this stage.

I don't know how long your A was in place or whether it was discovered/confessed, but in this thread you mention there was TT and I will assume therefore that this was an A that lasted for some time and that it was discovered. These are difficult for the BS because it feels like there is no truth nor honesty to be found. It's like living in the upside-down. Everything you thought was true you now know to have been a lie. The person you trusted implicitly has betrayed you and created a false reality behind your back, leaving you literally nobody upon whom you can rely to be honest. Without an ability to rely on honesty and factual truth, finding one's way is like being in a house of mirrors.

If you think R is a possibility for your marriage, you just have to tough this out. There is no shortcut to re-establishing trust in a marriage that has reached this point. It's like practicing a musical instrument. The only path is patient, diligent attention, without wavering, every day for years. This only works if your heart is true. In the end, it is an ephemeral matter of the heart, and it will become manifest by your patient presence and response to his frustration over an extended time.

I'm not a believer in the "grand gesture" as a tool for healing. By the way, quitting your job and replacing the car are not grand gestures. Going fully no-contact with the POS and purging the artifacts of the A are basics. You should also comb the house for any gift you received from the asshole, as well as outfits you bought to wear for the asshole, and dispose of them. Make sure your BH knows this.

Note that I'm using terms like "POS" and "asshole". It helps if you refer to him disparagingly like that to your BH. From the perspective of most BH's, any man who knowingly fucks another man's wife is in fact a piece of shit asshole.

Back to the "grand gesture", it's such a hollow act imho. Healing takes time, persistence, patience, love. Grand gestures are all hat & no cattle, as they say in Texas.

However, and please don't take me to be endorsing this, because frankly I think it's lunatic crazy, but I did think of something you could do if you really want to do something insane relative to "proving" fidelity. Sort of a modern-day analogue of the medieval chastity belt. Again, I personally think this is not advisable, but I don't know you nor your BH and I especially don't have a sense for how crazy things are for you, nor your tolerance for crazy, so I'm just throwing this out there as a "way out in left field" idea, for you to consider and/or dismiss as you see fit. Nowadays lots of women get labia piercings. It might be possible to get a piercing that involves a little locket, with a key, that he keeps. Something tiny, like jewelry, and discreet. If you think that a grand gesture of chastity is truly something that would advance his healing, this might be it. Let me reiterate that I'm not a believer in grand gestures and, as a BH, I would never ask my own WW to do something like this. But you did solicit ideas and at the most fundamental level it is impossible to prove a negative (that is, you can't prove you didn't do something). An act like this is about the closest I can think of to answer your question, which is the only reason I'm offering it.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 7:58 PM, August 12th (Sunday)]

Before I offer suggestions from a betrayed perspective, can I just ask one question as I must have missed it.

What is the significance of the car?

I would setup the lie detector test and then tell him these are the questions I want to be asked. Ask for his input. These tests suck so you need to make sure you have told everything to him prior. Do not leave a single thing out or you will fail the test.

RLinX,

What is the significance of the car?

She said earlier in this thread that most of the affair encounters happened in her car. As such it is likely a huge trigger for her BS. It's not uncommon at all for BS's to be triggered by anyplace that sex happened. A lot of folks have had to get a new bed. Sex didn't happen there but AP sat a lot in a particular recliner in our house. It had to go.

Ok, found out the significance of the car....

Basically, you need to do EVERYTHING!!! and yes, that includes things that might be embarrassing to you.

Here are my suggestions....

1). Sit your husband down and explain all that you are going to do to prove your fidelity as well as your remorse. Tell Him that after this conversation, you plan on typing your plan, which you consider a binding contract, and to give to him to revise in any way, if he wishes.

2). You need to have morning sex with him EVERY DAY! This includes period sex. And you need to increase the intensity of the sex. The male ego is fragile, yes, this is a cliche, but it is also very true. You need to show him that you want the physical as well as the emotional connection that sex gives. In his mind, having sex every morning will also reassure him that even if there is another guy, that other guy is getting sloppy seconds. And for that reason, I also suggest that you don’t completely clean up after the morning sex.

3). Expand outside your comfort zone! If you did anything with your lover that you normally don’t do with husband, you need to do it for husband without giving it a second thought!!! Has there ever been something that your husband wanted to try but you said no, well, reconsider doing those with him

4). You need to explain to your husband that you want him to reclaim you just as you are reclaiming him! You want to wipe out every memory of your lover as much as possible by far surpassing what you did with your lover by doing it more often and with greater intensity with your husband! If you had sex i your car 20 times in parking lot, you are going to have even wilder sex with your husband in that car, in the same parking lot, 40 times. If you went to a hotel, you will take husband there, preferably to same room, and again, have more quantity and better quality sex with husband!

5). Once you have completed all parts to #4 related with the car, you are going to sell the car or better yet destroy the car, by torching it, taking sledgehammer to it, asking local high school football team to destroy it with sledge hammers, whatever. Then buy a new car, but definitely NOT a newer or better quality car to replace it. The key is that since the car was the location of most of the cheating, it MUST be gone from your life ASAP!!! And the new car can NOT be from same manufacturer NOR the same color!!!! Right now I’m sure he goes through hell every time he looks at it. He thinks you are having fond memories of your lover and all the sex whenever you open the car door and get it!! One of your mistakes was not getting rid of that car as soon as he discovered the truth!!!!

6). Your level of affection with him will be through the roof from this point forward!!! You will tell him how much you love him, and yes, that you are sorry for what you have do to him and to your relationship SEVERAL TIMES everyday

7). Tell him that you are going to be working extra hours so that you can take a polygraph test. Tell him that you will working the extra hours because you don’t want the money to come from the regular household income. You had the affair, so you will do extra work to fix it! Ask him to PLEASE help you draft the questions asked during the polygraph. One of the questions will be about your husband being a better lover and the sex being better than with lover. And you damn well better pass!!!!

8). Tell him that you will be working extra hours to alsotp be able to hire a lawyer to write a post-nuptial agreement which is very favorable to him. This will prove how serious you are about saving the marriage. Yes, this is potentially dangerous for you if he plans on divorcing you, but it is a gamble you will have to make. But I believe it is a smaller gamble than the gamble you made when you started and continued to sleep with your lover.

9). Institute a 3rd ring rule. Tell him that no matter where you are, no matter what you are doing, you will answer your phone by the 3rd ring. If he calls and you are in a meeting, all you have to say is that you are in a meeting and will call him back within ___ minutes. You probably should explain to your supervisors why you MUST answer your phone by third ring.

10). After you get a new job, you will contact old HR dept and will name your lover.

11). Have YOU talked to your lovers wife and family yet? If not, with husbands supervision, you will contact her to set up a time and place to talk to her. It is probably best if you do this on speakerphone, but that is up to the two betrayed spouses. You will apologize and answer any questions she has. You will do the same to rest of his family, including his children, with his wife’s approval. If she doesn’t want you to talk to her kids, ask if you can write a letter to them apologizing for causing their family so much pain and hardship!

12). Yes, this is going to sound crazy, but he is looking for a grand gesture. Ask him to help you find and buy with your overtime/2nd job money, a chastity belt that you will wear under your uniform at work (where lover still works) or on any day you will spend more than 2 continuous hours apart,

The good news is that now make ones that are relatively invisible under clothing. You might have to adjust wardrobe style to better conceal it. He will have one of the two keys to th lock, which will NOT be a flimsy toy lock that can be pulled apart. And ASK him, if the other key can be given to a coworker that he trusts. Yes, this will be embarrassing to you explaining why to the coworker, but think about your husbands shame and embarrassment about finding out that the woman he loved more than anyone else, cheated on him and had another guy’s dickmin her mouth and vagina frequently! Tell him that you will wear the belt everyday that you are not together until he says you no longer have to wear it.

13). Anything you wore for lover, along with any gifts he gave you are burned.

14). You NEVER say no to his advances. You need to rebuild his confidence as a man and a lover.

15). I know that you have given him all accounts and passwords. But take lock off phone. Only use phone, whether it is to look something up, or text someone in front of him and tell him what you are doing. Then leave the unlocked phone on table where he can Check it if he wants to.

NEVER have the phone on you or use it in any way alone in a room or outside his view!

The phone is NEVER allowed in your bedroom nor bathroom!

16). All your pajamas and lingerie are thrown out. You buy all new lingerie, only what HE likes, and you wear it to bed every night. You will never again wear flannel or comfortable pjs. If you are cold in bed, you cuddle next to him in bed for warmth!!

17). Buy 3 VARs. Have one one you at all time. When it is full, just leave it next to his computer for him to listen to it while next 2 VARs are being used. The decision to listen to them is completely up to him, but you are giving him the opportunity to verify

18). Whenever you go someplace, text him when you are leaving and when you arrive. But at same time, add something in each message to let him know you love him.

Ex.

Text 1: honey, I’m going to the supermarket. Is there anything you would like me to get?

Text 2: I’m outside the supermarket, is there anything special you want?

Text 3: I’m all done at supermarket, heading home. Can’t wait to see you

Text 4: I’ve arrived home. I got something special for us Whipped cream. Thought I might have fun licking it off you.

19). . Refuse to attend any social event, especially at work, where there MIGHT be men, unless husband is with you

20). Get a tattoo in an intimate area that professes your love for him! Ex. Small little heat with your wedding date on heart with phrase “I love you (his name)” surrounding heart in pubic area or just above or high on inner thigh!! It would very difficult for another guy to do anything after seeing that unless he was a complete scumbag!! Could also tell hubby that it is also your Scarlet Letter that you will have forever because of not only what you did, but to profess your unending love for him!

21). You go the extra 10 miles for him. If you are spending day with him, you dress as nice/sexy for him. If you believe you need to lose weight, you tell him that you will lose it FOR HIM! Ask him to go to the gym with you. And when at gym with him, you wear yoga pants and sports bra. Yes, it may be embarrassing, but you are doing it FOR HIM!

Does he like when you are shaved? Then that is the norm from this point on

When you go out with him, go over the top dressing yourself for him. On dates, no bra.

22). All underwear is thrown away as I’m sure you don’t remember ever pair that you wore when with lover. Replace with only thongs, again to please him.

Basically become his fantasy woman in real life! You once had this position, but you lost it when you spread your legs and opened your mouth for your lover. Become that fantasy woman for him once more

Remember, all of this is FOR HIM!! You need to prove to him that you know the pain that YOU caused him and you will dedicate the rest of your life to him being the most important thing in the world to you! His healing, his feeling good are the most important thing in the world to you! And you will prove it to him EVERY DAY for the rest of your life, IF he gives you the chance!

I wish you luck and hope that you are worthy of being given a second chance, a chance that we both know you really don’t deserve

[This message edited by RLinX at 8:04 PM, August 12th (Sunday)]

Oops duplicate post

[This message edited by RLinX at 7:29 PM, August 12th (Sunday)]

CausedChaos, let me offer a different perspective.

Let's talk about trust & faith in a relationship. Trust and faith are born and carried along by facts. Those facts are that I know that in my heart (faith) and in my mind (trust) my spouse will never do anything or place themselves in a position to betray me/us.

When one betrays, faith and trust are gone. Forever. Why? Because the new set of facts are now changed to, yes, I have betrayed you and can easily do so again.

So we create a false faith and trust. Examples are checking in when not together, giving access to accounts.... but all of these have easy workarounds so none of them offer and true proof of being faithful. Nonetheless, we accept them as false facts.

So what does a betrayer do to prove to their betrayed spouse their new found faithfulness?

Nothing. There is nothing you can really do to offer foolproof proof.

So what does a betrayer do?

You have to be faithful and trustworthy to yourself each and every day. I believe if a betrayer is genuinely remorseful and repentant, they will do what ever is necessary to rearrange themselves and their life to remove all issues that create within them the desire and opportunity to betray. You need to be able to look at yourself, each and every night in the mirror and know you were faithful, trustworthy and honest. I believe that if you can do that, any spouse will sense it and over time accept it. Maybe not 100%, but enough to make things work out.

So I say stop trying to devise foolish ways to prove yourself to him and work on doing so to you. If he refuses to accept that, why would he ever accept foolish ways?

I wish you well.

alas, my wife could not move heaven and earth as I wanted. I wanted the pain, desolation, grief, and longing to be gone. I wanted the innocence and purity of our marriage back. No one can do that.

That is why you have to get yourself straight, and be patient for your BS.

CC

I haven't posted in this forum before just read some doozies, so I had to. First its good start that your being proactive with reading, interviewing for other jobs. Consistent genuine effort that your husband can see, feel, hear can help his healing. No sewing up body parts or humiliation via associates will help him heal. There are some great Positive insights here, soak those up. The new job will be a biggie in your work. GL