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You're doing awesome brother.

Don't be your WW's KISA, it seemed like you started to when informing the OBS. Your WW needs to own her shit. Don't make excuses or minimize what she has done. It doesn't matter what the AP did, your wife betrayed you and betrayed her friend.

It's a red flag that she is unwilling to discuss details right now. While I am sure she is hurting, your pain and healing is the priority. You have be to able to make an informed decision, which can't be done without getting whatever answers you feel you need. Waiting gives her time to get her story straight, possibly take it underground, hide evidence (or look to see if it exists), etc.

True remorse means she gives you the truth and helps you heal.

[This message edited by Shattereddd at 9:53 AM, July 11th (Wednesday)]

The reasons she doesn't want to talk details 'yet' is two fold.

1: she hopes to rug sweep it all

2: she wants to talk to the om so they can get their stories straight and to try to spin this story so their version resembles the truth less than horse sheet does to roast beef.

Walks: it came out in the confession. The ladies group used to meet in the evening and walk around the circle while chitchatting. AP being a born flirt sometimes popped up. Sometimes it was not walk but just sitting on a random bench in front of one of the houses and once or twice he found her alone- he came instead of OMS. After that he started calling her and invited her for walks in the same circle- full public view, at least no chance of a a physical thing there. If he was able to get her somewhere else in that evening timeslot of 1-1.5 hours, I dont know. Then after some walks he professed his affection for her. She claims she was taken aback but did not protest. She started liking it. The thing extended to going to the community gym at the same time, once or twice maybe swimming at the same time. And then texting and calls throughout the day.

Sorry this changes the whole dynamic completely. They had sex. You can be 99.9% sure. Insist now on the full truth and tell her there will be a polygraph to confirm. There is just no way they didn't have sex. I'm sorry. She is still lying to you.

You did well. Very well indeed.

Now onto the next steps.

OK, just want to add a note here. The folks in this section of SI, JFO, do not care if you D or R. There will be a time for this later. We just want you to get out of infidelity ASAP.

So she doesn't want to discuss details. That's not her call! She's still in shock, use it (I know it sounds heartless. What she did was much more than heartless). You have to sit her down ASAP. If she goes out of your sight, and there was some information withheld from you, she will [try] to contact AP. Having software on her phone will not help you if she is suspecting it - she will borrow phone from her colleague, buy a cheap burner phone on the way to office, etc. So if she lied to you, they will try to coordinate their stories.

Yes, the information that they were meeting eye to eye is highly concerning. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but cheaters are very resourceful when it comes to fucks. My WW fucked on her lunch break. They drove to nearby forest, 10 minutes there and back. Drove to abandoned construction site. She squeezed in a quick fuck before work (and she starts at 07:00). Another bad thing from my experience. I discovered their conversation on FB, just flirting. It was designed specifically for me (definitely unlikely in your case) to discover (WW was not compartmentalizing successfully, so wanted it to end "one way or another"). Their next level of communication were secret google accounts. ILY's, meeting coordination, blah blah blah. I haven't seen it, but WW said that it would have been very hard to guess from their conversation that they were fucking on ~every second encounter. So, keep in mind that it is possible that if it was PA, they deliberately kept sex out of their online convos. I just hope that it was not. EA is betrayal, but it not being PA would save you a ton of mind movies. That's some special hell.

One more boundary. Define to her what happens if she lies to you about any details, etc.

Keep strong. You are using up your emotional resources to do that, so most likely it will hit you sometimes in the future, but now you have to be strong.

Have to run now.

You did very well. Make sure to follow up with the OBS. Also you can demand details from your WW.

Whether you ultimately decide to R or D depends on how you process all of this in the long run, and how your WW reacts. But the goal right now is to get out of 8nfidelity. Take care of yourself. The emotions will come in a flood tide. Do not let your WW blame you for her actions. Her cheating is all on her. You both contribute to any issues in the M, but she owns the decision to cheat.

Hi SBS,

I am very sorry that you have to deal with something so selfish and unnecessary, but like so many others here, I think that you have handled it extremely well.

I think that your plans as far as next steps go are good, but I think that you should consult an attorney as soon as possible to find out what divorce would look like. Not because that is the only route out of this, but because the more knowledge and information that you have, the better informed you will be when you formulate a plan for what you want to do.

I know that the PI said that having your wife tailed was not a good idea at the start of the investigation, but now that she has been busted, I would feel very inclined to have someone watching where she goes and who she sees when you are not around. There is a chance that she will try to meet face to face with her AP, and discuss things without use of a phone or ipad, and you will have no record of that.

If, for example, she goes and meets the guy at some anonymous bench for a discussion, a PI's report can give you evidence of their meeting, which you can then use to test her honesty. As in:

"So what did you do Wednesday?"

"Oh nothing much, housework, watched TV..."

"Are you sure that's all you did?"

The point is to keep the ground moving beneath her feet, not because you want to torment her, but because she is still being dishonest in a deluded attempt that she can limit the damage. What you need is for her to give that up and just tell it like it is, and sadly, as the old adage says, the best form of defence is attack.

Her refusal to discuss details is an attempt to maintain control, and quite damning in itself.

She also appears to be feeling sorry for herself, and playing the victim, when she was an active participant:

She...said she is stupid that she fell into praises and attention at this age.

Quite a contrast from the tone of the phone calls prior to being busted, isn't it? So I think you should treat statements like that with a pinch of salt. What everyone always says in these cases is listen to a wayward's actions, not their words, and that is what you must focus on in the coming days and weeks.

Also, there is one thing that you need to realise, and it is this: prior to discovery, your wife was controlling things. After discovery, you have complete control.

Things can run at your pace, to your timing, to your plan, and you can make a list of what you need (whether it is actions or information), and present it to your wife and leave it up to her whether she steps up and fulfills them.

You have already taken strong and decisive action, and look at the impact of it. The momentum is yours, and the agenda can be set by you. I know this is daunting, and not where you (or any of us) wanted to be, but now that you are, you have a whole swathe of people behind you in this forum who can advise you how to draw up a plan for the way forward.

Your wife has no-one. Her AP will throw her under a bus immediately and distance himself, and whatever delusions and fantasies she had about their wonderful relationship are going to evaporate like mist in the midday sun.

The initiative has now switched to you, and for the time being it would be wise to make as many preparations as possible for both options (divorce and reconciliation), and watch carefully until your gut and your rational mind are in agreement about what you want to do. Both options are valid, and neither option is mandatory.

What we can do is try to advice you how to get the optimum benefit from tried and tested techniques that betrayed spouses have employed in the past to protect themselves.

And beyond that, we are all thinking of you and rooting for you.

You have done really well, I think dragging your WW across the street to OBS was classic.

Like suggested, OBS is your ally in this, you need to speak with her soon to formulate a plan. Be careful not to give up your forms of surveillance, lest she give it up to POSOM.

I don’t think you’ve gotten close to the full truth, yet and you are wearing the rose-colored glasses with your WW, you are giving her more credit than she deserves. They spent TOO much alone time together and this guy was a player. Generally, although nearly ALWAYS true, if EA partners are physically together in same place, it is consummated. Something just isn’t right, 1 to 1 1/2 hour “walks”, pool time...they were together WAY TO MUCH. I suggest you (and OBS) get a time line immediately, her not ready to talk about is BS-that is time to get her cover story straight, and focus on the alone times and I bet you start getting changes to her story. Then compare with OBS.

Hi stung,

How are you doing today? What happened when your WW came home? I hope you are taking care of yourself. This is a long process and you need to eat and sleep. Let us know how you are.

BeenThrereInco, DarkHoleHeart, Fareast, M1965, DeWittle, Butforthegrace, Shattereddd and all other co travellers

Thanks for your concern and interest in my situation and your valuable observations. I am doing much better today than I was the past few days. I even could play some squash today and used the gym too.

I was able to get WW to talk to me and look me in the eye. WW is in regret mode. Very apologetic but I am maintaining my distance and composure. On my ask, she has drawn a timeline of her contact with AP. I asked for all physical meetings, phone calls and dateline progression of the A.

My gated community has a cctv and a security command center. I faked a story of my wife accidently dropping her glittering diamond & gold necklace and went through the cctv footage for the complete duration of last month. Her walks, our arrival/departures, AP arrival departures. I focused on the evening walks. With or without AP. The security guy left the whole setup at my disposal. I had my PI with me. Thank god for electronics!!

Of course I will have to post a false “Lost” message on the physical notice board and the community app/website to backup my story of seeing the footage.

Her timeline has one “group” meeting beyond the one month storage norm the security center and the rest is all there. So basically I can see all. There is a backup site and that footage can also be retrieved if need but at this time I don’t need that.

All of the recordings so far match with my wife’s stated version on the timeline… except for a day confusion for one day …..where she said possibly it was Monday while it was Tuesday on camera. And the actions in the meetings are so far in line with what she has said so far.

The usual evening routine:

WW driving back from office and parking her car. Spending around an hour at home, come out to the circular path where ladies usually meet around 7 with kids playing around. Do 2-3 walking rounds of the path. Each round is roughly 800 meters. Ladies getting added, dropped in between and at some time the group choosing a bench to sit and talk. This is where new neighbors get introduced, invites for drinks or weekend meetups get finalized etc.

There are quite a few recordings in which WW has been with other female friends and AP is not there. I can see the group sitting together.

Then one evening I can see him walk up. Then I can see most ladies leaving slowly while WW and AP are the only two left deep in a discussion and then they disperse after 10-15 minutes.

I see this repeating another day same week.

I see them exchanging numbers the second time. Then one day I can see WW staying beyond the usual time after her friends are gone and AP approaching when she is alone. I can see them starting the walk, doing the walk and ending. There are 3 similar instances.

Then I can also see my wife skipping the usual schedule with ladies and coming out after the ladies had gone home and then AP coming out too. A walk each time. 3 times this.

My Gym does not have a separate sauna or a changing room, since it is part of the club complex and is resident only. But I can see them in the gym one day early morning. We are mostly in gym/sports attire when we visit the club house. Two of them together in the gym ties up with her story. My wife does her 5 km on the treadmill 4 times a week. I am also there on the weekends at the same time either playing a sport or on an equipment. Two days a week she is alone and one day recording I saw AP mulling around. He is a gym regular but came much earlier than his usual time, I am sure this was pre arranged. I can see him taking her through some other equipment exercises etc after her run, then cooling off on the steps of the gym outside for 15 minutes together and then walking back to the houses together. I see one uncomfortable handshake that day. I think it is a hug or a peck that AP wanted, converted to a handshake by WW.

There is one pool visit. She is there with my elder son and the AP had come with his family and she says it was an accidental meeting but she listed this down as one of the rendezvous. She did a few laps of the olympics size pool while AP family was contained in the Jacuzzi area. Cctv corroborated this.

AP has used frustration and tension at work as the hook to initiate the conversation with WW. Fear of losing his job and inability to pay house mortgage if that happens and fear of bringing insecurity to the stable life of his kids and wife is the general theme around which he built his credentials as a responsible husband and parent with WW. As my wife is one of the few female working professionals in the evening friends group and most other ladies are home makers, that was his angle for baiting WW to get her opinion as he could not disclose the tensions at home or to anybody who didn’t understand. It is unusual for me to think that AP does not have friends to talk to in the in the world from his 44 year life!!! And he approaches a female neighbor acquaintance (not yet friend) to share this and seek advice!!! Slimy character.

WW acknowledges she loved the praise and attention. She also got very worried about his job and for the family since APW is also her friend. She acknowledges she was complemented a lot for keeping in shape, running a household very well, setting up a beautiful house, doing well at her job, looking good in all attires, dressing well, having natural beauty and perfect grooming, bringing up perfect kids, cooking well, and what not. She did not realize at what stage she slipped from a situation where she was very involved in his job situation on day to day basis to a situation where her main purpose of making contact on whasapp, phone, or in the park was to get more compliments and feel good about herself.

Given the limited time they could meet one to one in the evening (it was 7-8 times I think) and that too not daily, whatsapp became the defacto hot line and it started from sweet good mornings to sweet good nights. The AP having coached her how to delete whatsapp communications from history and backup too so that “somebody” or a “third party” does not “misconstrue” their friendship. What crap.

At this time I corrected her to say Affair. She is all Runny eyes and says OK affair.

The AP had suggested a family picnic with both families together. The AP had also proposed to take her to a live comedy show – she loves going to live comedy shows. I am OK watching them on youtube and think most of them are overrated and hate going to them unless the standup artist is well known. The offer was for just two of them so that they could also talk. And she had declined both invites.

AP has also proposed to drop her to her parents place for a break etc.

The whole activity spurt came in a week when AP wife and children were not here and were visiting their grandpa’s house somewhere else and AP was alone contemplating / planning/ executing the catch.

With the above context, the phone recording I have now of both of them makes more sense.

I HAVE NOT TOLD ANYONE ABOUT MY SOURCE AND AMOUNT/ EXTENT OF INFO I HAVE. WW was worried that AP wasn’t talking much on phone and sending usual stupid whatsapp messages and maybe something bad has happened at his work which he is not sharing. She is also disturbed that sending good messages throughout was a norm, non receipt/ acknowledgement of Enthusiasm, fighter quotations, meant he is in a bad mental state due to his job and she had taken upon her to keep his mental state up. What nonsense. (She says she is ashamed about this piece of the whole episode but yes she longed to get a call or message and an update from him).

While WW switched to a call and message mode due to paucity of time in daily schedules, she also acknowledges she was constantly feeling the pressure from AP to meet at leisure… without the pressure of their schedules but she thought/felt that was “ a bit” inappropriate but on my pushing pressure she would have still gone for that meeting as she cared about AP/s condition.

On my direct questioning about the Physical elements involved in her affair so far, she got furious and vehement in denial. On my claim of I don’t know what happened and she has to tell me and it is my right to ask her, even ask around and know everything, she is categorical that NOTHING happened. She also held her head in her hand and wondered aloud what state of mess and distrust she has landed us into and how she could have been wiser in actions. On here every reasoning of “Don’t you know me”, I have a straight answer “But this still happened. So there is no preceding qualifier, tell me each f**cking detail”.

So here I am. Sorry for the long post but I appreciate all of you following up on me and showing your concern and giving me advice.

My PI maintains his previous advice: My wife was caught in the early stages of an affair and could have got physical any time. In his opinion she has spoken complete truth so far which is corroborated by evidence and it is a good sign of remorse. He has hinted at me for IC and MC down the line.

My opinion: For me Trust has been broken. I have been betrayed. Good thing is that WW acknowledged it and said that breaking trust was a bigger sin she did than doing PA.

Your opinion: Wanted

Suggestions for Next Steps: Wanted

Should I appoint PI on AP: advise needed.

APW state: I could not talk to her. Reportedly she has taken to bed after double betrayal – her husband and WW.. WW is feeling bad about her health and is blaming herself.

APW doesn’t know about AP job situation yet (I don’t even think that is a truth)

sbs, you seem to have an extremely clear and level head on your shoulders, and from what you have written, you are on the right path.

Your investigations have revealed a lot to you, but do not halt the monitoring. AP may well attempt to re-establish contact with your WW again at a later stage.

NC between WW and AP may be difficult, as you are neighbours, perhaps install security cameras in and around your house, with storage in a cloud storage where only you have access to it.

Your WW should have given you full access to her accounts and electronics. If she resists, it is highly likely the contact continues.

See if she has any hidden/undeclared email accounts. They need to be flushed out. Take control of those accounts. Yes, she could easily set up a new account (so freaking easy), but at least it will be a start.

It is usually not suggested that the WS and their APs spouse meet up, as things can get pretty ugly, but in your case it ended up as a good thing, as your WW saw the effects her A had. This will help burst the bubble of unicorn-land.

Keep calm and observe. Words are cheap, and it is actions that will count. Be aware of what WW is doing, but don't do it in an obvious manner. People will behave themselves if they know they are monitored, so you want them to thing that they are 'free'. An analogy for this would be speed cameras; drivers will slow down and behave themselves if there is a known speed camera area. New/Unknown speed camera areas will have a much higher chance of catching a speeding driver.

Ultimately, you are the aggrieved party, and as such, your WW is the only one that does the work to regain your trust.

As the WW2 poster says, 'Keep Calm, and Carry On'. You are doing well, but don't forget about looking after yourself.

sbs, judging from your last post, I agree with your PI. It looks like you interfered right on time.

Also, the amount of evidence that supports "EA only" is really helpful.

Note that the need to find out if it was PA was not to determine "how bad it is", but mainly to provide you with facts so you can determine if she is lying after confrontation. Of course, PA is another shit layer in a shit sandwich of betrayal, but the main things that kill marriages are lies and deceit.

Your WW should read "NOT Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. I also second recommendation of your PI - IC and later MC. Your WW was sliding down dangerous slope FAST.

Have you asked her what she felt for him? Because "being concerned for him about his job situation" is not a good excuse to start sneaking around. It looks like it was what I would call "unacknowledged EA" - they didn't profess their feelings to each other, etc. I recently guided my coworker through similar situation (except that AP was geographically separated), he is now happy that he "overreacted" as suggested - their relationship became much better afterwards.

You should continue monitoring her for a while. I somehow doubt that she will try contacting him, but just in case.

Do not waste your resources on AP. It is not your problem. Provide info for OBS if she asks, but your focus should be on you and your family.

This^^^^^^^^^^^. DarkHoleHeart’s advice is spot on. You seem to have your composure and your head on straight. It appears you caught an EA in its early stages. Be vigilant. Your WW should definitely read “ Not Just Friends”.

Thank you RocketRaccoon, DarkHoleHeart and fareast,

I have commissioned WW spouse phone surveillance for a month. So if AP tries to establish contact through any phone, I will know. BTW WW has blocked AP’s known number. She understands their house and any contact with AP is out of bounds. I have also told that OMS is also not welcome in my home… now or down the line ever. I wanted to extend the NC to our kids who know nothing yet and play together but doesn’t look like that is possible.

Since it is a close knit social group, there are going to be situations in future as lot of invites will be to both the families and ours will skip. We will end up having some angry /disappointed friends and that is going to trouble her/kids sometime. But that is what WW signed for when she dialed in that number. I am anyways happy with my close group of exclusive non flashy friends and their families and with age, I know how difficult it is to make and maintain more.

WW acknowledges she started liking AP and that is the area she is ashamed about. She thinks he is good looking, health conscious, funny, chivalrous, polite and what not. I think I did mention that AP is from hospitality business and everything about him and his family is flashy and nouveau riche: from home interiors choice to car choice to what they wear to their communication style. I have questioned her on her low self esteem to fall for praise and show etc. I think these are the areas of IC, MC.

I will order “Not Just Friends” today.

I have all the WW passwords -Facebook, work ID, personal ID, banking, insurance etc. Actually always had them. Her phone was used as a family phone and everybody always had access to it. My 14 year son is the inhouse admin for all phones. On the other hand my phone, being one provided by office, has admin rights with office is off limits for everybody.

Her phone surveillance will tell me if an incoming call has come in from AP from a real/ghost/masked number. The geography I am in, calling is free, incoming call records are not provided by phone companies and I need to go to the cops or PI for the same. Moreover PI gives me all call recordings. I have chosen the PI.

Cameras in the house/ at the entrance exits are now activated and I shall start monitoring from today.

My Wife has been professing her love and apologies to me non stop and I think it has hit her now. She is in the same stage I was 3 days ago. I am feeling bad for her but I am also drawing a lot of satisfaction from the behavior. She is the only woman I have loved and still love deeply.

Reminds me of one of those YouTube videos where they capture the moments in a storm just before a tornado forms. The swirling clouds, whipping winds, tendrils from the clouds beginning to reach downward.

I think you have things well in hand. Also consider yourself lucky (or well planned) that you are able to visually see almost the whole affair on CCTV. That is an advantage 99.9% of BS’s can only dream about.

IC for her is an absolute necessity. Along with reading. You should be asking her for her plan to make you safe in the M. So far I think you are mostly dictating to her what you need. As a Remorseful spouse she should be researching and thinking about how to help you heal. So don’t always spoon feed her the terms of the reconciliation if you want to try.

The fact that it had not yet turned physical does not lessen the betrayal. An A is an A. The rest is just degrees. Your pain is real and it’s good she is not trying to deflect.

In fact if it were me I would need her to admit it was headed that way, even if she’s not sure she could go thru with it, there was definite movement on her part to get close enough to make it physical.

I’m hoping she’s thanking you for the actions you took to stop things in it’s tracks, at least Giving her a chance to save her marriage (which even now is not a sure thing).

What does she think now of the AP? If she does not get to a point where she considers him a POS that led her down a path where she could have chosen to destroy her family, including her kids happiness and that of her beloved spouse, then that could be a real red flag.

A marriage where your wife is pining for the affection of another is not a happy one, so watch out that she’s not just going thru the motions.

Since you seem to have things well in hand I will leave you by sending you a PM with a list of characteristics of a Remorseful WW. It’s gathered from various SI threads. There may be something in there that you have not thought of that you wish to layer in your approach.

Congratulations on having the guts to take control of things. That ability is not to be taken for granted.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:42 AM, July 13th (Friday)]

Your situation was perfect for the work of a good PI. And you found a great one! Good on you for your quick, decisive actions. It sounds like your wife is embarrassed. It may be a while, but she will eventually be really thankful for the wake-up call. At least now she can address her weaknesses with her IC. Many of us here wish we had known or would have had the opportunity to stop an affair in its tracks like this! I hope you can heal from this, as you likely have a much greater chance than many who simply are too late.

I agree with the others, they’ve given you some really good advice. I, too, agree with your PI caught it just in time AND you dealt with the situation VERY WELL! We see a lot of times here guys in your same situation and just wallow and drag the situation out months ruining any chance of R, you sir have that opportunity because you acted so decisively.

I would be at every neiborhood function and would warn every husband to watch that POS.

You stepped into a gold mine with the neiborhood cctv, just damn! That’s worth the HOA fees for sure. As far as posting a lost poster, just thank security and tell them you have found it.

You will hear many people on here tell you how sorry we are you are going through this. It's because whether we found out today or a year ago, the pain leaves an indelible mark on your soul. Right now just about any reaction you have, short of killing or hurting anyone, is completely expected and normal. I will give a piece of advice. If you have ever been or wanted to be an actor worthy of an academy award, here is your chance. Act like the coolest, most calm unfettered human being you can be when speaking to

and contronting your wife. It will blow her mind how much in control you are. She is out of control right now. Her world is in turmoil. Not saying act uncaring but convey to her that you are in control of the situation and you know exactly what she did. She may fold like a cheap suit. This is the rest of your life we are talking about. You be in charge of it. You can't control her, ever, but you can control you... Good luck my friend. We are all with you on this. This was NOT your fault.

New member here... I read your thread and I’m happy you were able to catch this in time. However, Perhaps you should consider moving?

You won’t be able to do monitoring forever and what if, 1 year down the road, when the dust has long settled, they bump into each other?