SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Marz said:

Inform his wife without warning immediately

This^ . Just make sure you have some evidence. Tell the OBS (other betrayed spouse) and see how quick it gets back to your wife.

It may be telling. Let your WW (wayward wife) come to you about what you know.

Thank you for your suggestions and thoughts. I am so relieved I have SI to come to.

Collective judgement and your experiences are definitely helping me.

These are my thoughts and proposed line of action.

There are two fronts of battle for me...

ONE - I HAVE to know what is happening and what has happened. Using whatever info I get, I can draw some picture of the past too. I will confront her and I will approach the spouse of AP.

TWO

My marriage is definitely wrecked. I do not know what will happen tomorrow but I have a deep big hole in my heart and it is oozing blood... continuously. I need healing. Killing thoughts are closed. I am ignoring the bar counter. My elder son has some exams and I am trying to channelize my energy in teaching him but I realised I am on a short fuse. Maybe he got it too. I will try to hit the gym today.

Actions Done:

1. I have a PI hired. The PI felt given the location of our homes, location tracking, putting a tail etc wont work. Only whatsapp tracking and call recording would be of any help.He wants me to sign to allow phone tapping (it is in the realm of legal/illegal stuff). But what the heck, the WW phone is in my name and I can always track/backup my phone.

Deep down I am ashamed I had to go to a PI.

2. I had got cctv camera cabling done in the new home and got cameras installed. This was done because we had a bad experience with a nanny long time back and it works as a good deterrent. However not used the DVR yet. I have activated it. This will track movement in and out of everybody in my house as well as common areas - living/dining/lobby/kitchen etc. using cameras to spy on my wife's movements!!! What has the world come to

The PI has promised me daily updates.

Let us see

I'm a big softie. I tried the gentle way. Nope, all I got was denials and arguments. Being here for a while and watching others handle this I have to say the guys here are right. You need bold action and you need proof. If she finds out how you came by information she will use another sneaky method if she isn't ready to cut it out.

It feels rotten to spy on your own spouse. Why should you even have to?!

You might get lucky and she feels ashamed and tells you everything and reforms. Be prepared for some fancy excuses though if she doesn't come clean immediately. She might cry and look like someone who would never even think a bad thought ever again but you must be prepared for if she tries to keep talking or seeing the other person. People get their thoughts and feelings so wound up that it's very few that cut it out straight away.

The guys are right, when you have evidence, tell the other person's wife. Then he will probably drop your wife in an effort to save his own skin. This is one of the most powerful tools you have.

I hope it's only sweet talk and nothing more. If there is no evidence both will probably deny unless the other wife can provide something.

You will get the best help here for whatever outcome you want to pursue. I also encourage you to spend time running or at the gym to get the stress out. Good luck.

Who knows why people behave this way. Suddenly it's upon us and we can hardly keep ourselves together.

[This message edited by pureheartkit at 1:33 AM, July 11th (Wednesday)]

Inform his wife without warning immediately

Sorry, will have to disagree with this at the moment. In these confused times, it cannot be a safe assumption that the AP is male, unless there are clear situations where that can be assumed. There have been cases where a wayward has had an affair with a couple, and not an individual.

I would let the PI do their job, and figure it out from there.

stungbutstrong, it is good that you are taking action. Planning, taking action has this positive side that you have to detach a bit emotionally.

I agree with you about phone tracking/rec. It might be illegal according to law, but morally she lost her right to privacy the second she started secretly communicating with OM. I received recordings of my WW fucking AP3 from anonymous source (if you want details, see my profile). My WW suspected me, of course. Few days after she received D papers, she said "you can go to jail for this". My answer was "Maybe. And your daughters will be sooo happy that you put their father to jail because he recorded you fucking another guy. Way to go."

Does your WW sense that something is "wrong" with you? How do you cover your distress up?

I'm a little puzzled about other posters suggesting you confront, expose to OBS without preparation. If you just dive in headfirst without thinking, you are more prone to gaslighting and manipulation. Going to battle without preparation is never a good idea. I applaud you for not making impulsive decisions.

My PI is quick.

He has bad news for me. Sent me a phone recording of a 20 minute phone call. Done from the office.

WW is head deep in this shit. This is hurting!!

She has never talked to me like this!! My God!!

PI has an assessment: WW sees him as KISA. It is EA so far. She has fallen hook line and sinker for him and after this achievement AP is very guarded on phone. Maybe he is a serial and parallel offender. (Now as i think aloud, he is in the hospitality business, has changed jobs every year claiming carer opps but i now think due to his appetite for A). AP is creating a set of circumstances which would force WW to physically meet AP very soon and would give a chance to AP to convert this into a PA.

The recommendation to me is: This is as damning an evidence of an A as one would get. The time to confront is now.

I have to act before WW leaves for office.

Suggestions please......

1. Don't reveal you sources. If asked, "PI has all evidence I need, I'm not disclosing what I know so you could lie to me better"

2. Set boundaries. "Breaking NC means divorce" - but only set consequences you are ready to go through with.

3. Do not allow to be dragged into blameshifting conversation - "I did that because you didn't...". Be prepared to be blamed for everything. Answer "I'm sorry you feel this way". And remember - the affair is 100% on her.

4. Good luck.

Just interested - how did PI get a hands on her phone? Or he did it remotely?

ok, just wanted to add - cheaters DENY. It is mindbogling. Be prepared for that. You know, they know that you know, but they still deny. They even deny when you show them concrete proof.

Upon my confrontation I was not ready for this (actually, I kind of was, but the degree of denial shocked me). I told her I know she fucked AP3. When she did it. Who AP3 is. She denied everything. It was total WTF moment. So I slipped and played her several seconds of recording, where he asks and she refuses to put on condom on his dick, blaming shaking hands. I still wasn't "trained" enough to understand that it doesn't matter if she denies or not. What matters is that you know. You don't have to prove her that you absolutely do.

Just keep it in mind.

do not be emmotional and plead. Do not promise anything pending she show full remorse and she is really emotional about this "mistake". You have a bigger problem at hand. She may hav done this bfore or she is vulnerable to any one who make a move. "Act like going to end marriage to save it"

Speak in a neutral manner always from a position of strength. Never allow nebulous cheater speak to enter the conversation. You will be amazed by the words and actions she will utter if she behaves similarly to nearly all cheaters. Be aware of the following:

blameshifting - "I had an Affair because you forced me into it!" You didn't trip her so that she fell into a this relationship and infidelity. You did not force her to contact him and arrange to meet or get emotionally involved. Suggesting that you "forced" her to do this is ludicrous.

gaslighting - from the play, "Gaslight". This is where she tries to convince you that what you have seen, heard, or experienced did not in fact happen. It is a deflection and it is done with the intent of leaving you questioning whether or not you are crazy or overreacting.

rugsweeping - don't sweep this under the rug. Things swept under the rug grow big, sharp fangs and trenchant, rending claws and then someday they erupt out from under the rug reaping havoc. Resentment from rug sweeping is often fatal to marriages. Without doing the work her desire and ability to cheat has not been remedied.

trickle truth (TT) - where her story is "we only talked once, I swear on the grave of my dear mother" on Monday and two weeks later you dig more and get, "well, yes we talked all the time and arranged to have sex, then yes we had sex. But that's all, I swear!"

Suuggestions:

Believe only 50% of what you see and 0% of what she says. She's already blown her credibility and most cheaters lie to cover themselves. Sure, they tell themselves that it is "I'm sparing the feelings of my Betrayed Spouse!" or some other noble crap but it is crap. They're protecting themselves or the AP (Affair Partner).

I am glad you seized the narrative and are establishing control in your life.

Please post often, we are here to support you in this most difficult time.

Do not play the pick me dance!

Carefully contemplate your actions to ensure they will achieve the results you desire.

I'd suggest gathering a bit more evidence, then discreetly approaching the obs. Is she home during the day? If so, just wait until they are at work and go there. Compare notes with her and make her your co-conspirator.

The recommendation to me is: This is as damning an evidence of an A as one would get. The time to confront is now.

I have to act before WW leaves for office.

Suggestions please......

#1 Do not reveal your source. Just tell her that you know she is having an affair with the neighbor and let her do the talking. If she lies, cut her off and tell her that you already know the truth so you know when she is lying. Ignore questions about "How do you know." For all she knows OBS told you, or someone saw them together, or you were able to read their "What App" or you over heard some of their conversation or... doesn't matter. If you tell her you will lose that source of information and she will turn the table and argue about you hiring a PI and spying. You don't need to fight about that...you need to focus on her affair. Let her do most of the talking only throwing in questions. If she is not being truthful walk away and read up the the 180 (in the healing library).

So, do you want to Reconcile or Divorce at this point? If she is being truthful and appears remorseful you can give her a list of things that she needs to do to repair the marriage. NC and complete transparency should be at the top of that list (passwords to phone/computer...). A NC letter that you see and approve, IC to see why she did this to the family. Maybe read how to help your spouse heal... Whatever you think fits. What you don't want to do is jump right into MC.

Don't say anything about telling OBS. Don't bring up OBS. Do tell her but don't let your WW know you are going to do this prior. Don't give your WW too much time to warn OM that you know either.

Also be careful. It sounds like the recording has your WW being the pursuer and that you are trying to twist things in your mind so the OM is to blame. I'm not saying that he doesn't own some blame but your WW is not a naive little snowflake. She knows what she is doing to you and her kids. Don't jump to the conclusion that they have not had sex. He might have been pulling away in the conversation because they have had sex and he likes to distance himself afterward. They live across the street from each other.

Buy a VAR or record using your phone the confrontation. Many BS have been hit with fake DV charges it's best to be safe and its good to have a recording of what she admits to.

I had the confrontation.

Dismissal, then denial then acknowledgement of an EA. WW Is adamant nothing physical happened and at the most some cathartic calls happened because she was swept off her feet. She begged forgiveness and said she is stupid that she fell into praises and attention at this age.

I am surprised I did it so business like. I was on the verge of showing my emotions once or twice but managed well.

Soon after, I walked over (along with WW) to the AP home. he was away at work. I asked WW to tell the AP spouse of the A. I also told the spouse of AP that I think it was AP who crossed the limit, approached my wife behind my back, took advantage of my trust and slowly converted group evening walks into just two of them walking. Professed his interest in her, wooed her and coached her to delete messages after each chat and had a deep dive 10-15 minute love talk each day (This is what my WW tells me happened. I dont know).

For evidence I had my WW with me. I could see the other spouse dying within. She maintained a brave front. I am still to hear from AP.

Phew!

My days and nights have merged.

WW is not willing to delve into details yet. She said she is ashamed of what she has done. She acknowledges trust once broken hardly ever gets back.

I am just on an adrenalin high.... too much happening in my life.

For next steps, I am going to have a debrief session. I will insist on all the details. I have some info from the chat and call, i will verify some facts from that. Otherwise I dont know what actually happened.

Do I want a D or a R.

I do not know yet. She is the only woman I have loved all my life and she betrayed me for a SOB. I am the world traveller with glorious stories involving us to tell and she fell for a cheapo for a few praises!!

I think it is a scene straight out of True Lies.

Future action

1. I have a phone software on WW's phone to track and record all chats and calls and gives me cloud access to all this info, courtesy the PI. It costs money but it works. I will monitor diligently. For now WW says she has blocked AP. I dont believe in a NC communication, after having confronted AP spouse.

2. I need to have another sit down with her soon.

3 Await inputs/ response from spouse of AP.

4. See how WW and AP react.

I must also acknowledge I would not have been this brave if I had not got the support and advise i got here.

I was a broken wreck. Still am. But know what to do.

So Thank you friends.

I will keep you posted on what happens next.

You are acting like a champ! Good job. Getting the details now and cross-checking what you can is the best way. You may hear that confronting too soon was a mistake but I think if you actually did stop this before it was physical then you did a good thing. Stay in touch with the OBS. She may get details you don't have and watch diligently for contact. One or the other of them is going to reach out to get stories straight and to mourn their lost love.

One question. Does it seem like your WW is disgusted with herself and how she has behaved? Is she defensive at all or is she instead mortified? Hopefully the latter. It is a little concerning that she doesn't want to go into details yet because it could be she wants to talk to him so they can give the same details.

I did not realize that the two of them have been going on walks together in the evening alone. Was that disclosed before in this thread? That is really hard for me to believe that there have not been at least some kissing going on. Adults that profess these feelings for each other and then have alone time to act on them usually do.

Hi Stung

You did well by taking immediate action against this A.

While you may not believe in an NC communication to the AP from your WW, you must make it perfectly clear to her that any contact between him and her ever again will mean the demise of her Marriage to you.

You can’t keep her from being with him, but you can keep her from being with him AS YOUR WIFE.

I am glad you will keep the PI on the job for a while. Don’t let her know how you know what you know and keep monitoring.

As for your WW, it’s good that she is admitting, but let her know that you are completely hurt that she gave what she promised you, her love and devotion, so easily to this poor excuse of a man.

She will need to find an Individual Counselor to work thru why she did this so easily. That should be required if she wants any chance at R with you.

You may be well served by finding your own IC to work thru the pain of what she has done. You have a long road of healing ahead of you, whether or not it was physical.

Finally, you will have to sort out your living arrangements. Being so close geographically to the AP it will be very hard to get thru this with his proximity keeping him in your daily lives.

I wish you Good luck in this difficult time.

Regarding truth, talk to other wife by your self ASAP. establish an understanding of the need to exchange details. If she is going to get all details from her WH, you can compare. WW and OM may conspire what to tell their BSs. Keep track of any attempts at contact

Walks: it came out in the confession. The ladies group used to meet in the evening and walk around the circle while chitchatting. AP being a born flirt sometimes popped up. Sometimes it was not walk but just sitting on a random bench in front of one of the houses and once or twice he found her alone- he came instead of OMS. After that he started calling her and invited her for walks in the same circle- full public view, at least no chance of a a physical thing there. If he was able to get her somewhere else in that evening timeslot of 1-1.5 hours, I dont know. Then after some walks he professed his affection for her. She claims she was taken aback but did not protest. She started liking it. The thing extended to going to the community gym at the same time, once or twice maybe swimming at the same time. And then texting and calls throughout the day.

The call recording I heard was full of need of spending more time together, finding each other and being each other's support, how some texts make each other's day. WW was more insistent in the call for him to open up as they do when meet in person while AP seemed guarded to speak much.

This is what I know so far.

Earlier on this thread we thought it was only phone calls, but we now know there was a lot of "alone" time when they were physically together. Every A is different, of course, but one thing we see over and over is that if two people are that deeply into an EA, if they can get together, they will fuck. This forum is filled with stories of wayward wives/husbands screwing in any semi-private nook or cranny they can find: restrooms in public parks, behind trees, etc. If they were in the fitness center, swimming, I'd be very surprised if there were no sexual contact. Is there a hot tub at the gym? A steam room? Locker rooms?

I would strongly suggest you speak with the OBS soon, alone, to compare notes and prepare a strategy to learn the truth.

Be careful. As another poster said, your WW and her AP will almost certainly figure out a way to get a story that both will stick to. They will likely lie, deflect, and minimize.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 10:24 AM, July 11th (Wednesday)]