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I'm asking this because my WW had given me the impression that she's open to R but only if it's what I want as she's resigned to the fact that we can't recover because of how I reacted to the A which was to file and separate.

This doesn't sound like true R to me. Surely if someone is truly remorseful then there should be no door opening from the BS?

The way I put it to her was, the door is now closed. I won't open the door, you would have to kick it down.

My husband is the one who initiated R in our case. But of course he was—he divorced me after D-day—I obviously wasn’t going to pursue someone who didn’t want me....? So obviously when we started talking about trying again it had to come from him.

Ok I see what you're saying but surely if you truly feel remorse and want your BS then wouldn't you do what it takes or at least try regardless of what actions they've taken?

Maybe it doesn't matter who offers to R first. Maybe I have that wrong.

Yeah I don't think it’s about a who’s initiating that matters but rather you both on on the same page that you want it or your not in R. From d-day I wanted R, but my FWH didn’t think it was possible: how do you recover from an A, he felt he destroyed everything and broke his vows, etc., but after seeing an MC together and IC (and a very decision affirming event) he came to the conclusion it was possible. It wasn’t so much about who was initiating but rather we were on the same page in order to move forward together.

Once in R, it was very much about him working on making me safe and all the other things Waywards need to be doing. This is where maybe who initiates first can come into play as far as their actions in working really hard to show they are remorseful and on the paths to healing and understanding why they did what they did. I didn’t feel like I should have been the one prompting that or it wasn’t his journey per se but my agenda.

I think if it matters to you then it matters! I was just trying to provide my own perspective from a different circumstance.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 6:37 AM, August 18th (Saturday)]

I knew something was going on end of September/beginning of October 2017. I set a deadline in my head that I would either see a change on my WS by the end of the year, or I wouldn't. Thanksgiving 2017 he admitted to a PA, but "ended it" the next day when I began packing his bags. He took it underground. Maybe the physical stuff ended, but they were still calling/texting all day long.

So a week before the end of the year, I told him he to be out January 1st. He moved in with AP, I 180ed hard and went no contact.

I started the process to legally separate. At our second-to-last mediation session, we had a talk after where I said that I still loved him, never wanted any of this, but I would not share my husband, and he had to go 1000% NC for any chance of a future.

He broke up with AP a few days later, moved out with no place to go (crashes on his grandma's couch for a month), and got in touch with my via his mom because I had blocked his #.

According to my fWS, he very quickly realized he had made the wrong choice, but he figured that 1. I was completely done with him -- no chance, nada, especially because I had made it so difficult to get in touch with or see me (and we even share little kids). 2. He had created this whole mess, so like... he made his bed, he had to lie in it. 3. He owed AP because he moved in with her, broke and with no othrr place to go.

But the moment he realized he had a chance with me again, he made a plan to leave (AP was violent, he was trying to leave with least amount of drama possible, but she still assaulted him), and the different was crazy -- transparent, answered all questions, went out of his way to try and prove things, like sending me a pic of him at work with his watch in pic if he got stuck working late (I've never asked him to do this).

Anyways, when I ask him now why he never fought for our M before I kicked him out, he says it's a mix of "affair fog" thinking and believing that he had ZERO chance with me. Now that he has a chance he's so different -- holds me when I cry, asks me if I want to talk about the A, checks with me about EVERYTHING before making any sort of plans...

And to answer your question, no, I didn’t and wouldn’t try anything after he told me he was done. It would have been an act of further disrespect of him and continued removal of his agency. He’s not the type to want grand gestures or stuff like that. When he says something he means it, and he said he was done.

Montorok:

Just because younfile and separatendoes not mean the door is closed. You can call off the D process at any time. What do you want? Are you open to R? If so tell her. She is probingmto see if you are? If you are open to R let her know. But you need to communicate to her what you need to see to make R possible. If this is just a ploy on her part that is not sincere you will know very quickly.

After, my fWW confessed to her A, we separated and I filed for D within three weeks. We had very little contact for five months, when she tracked me down and pleaded for a chance to save the M. We went to dinner and I told her what I needed to see from her and she told me of the changes she had already made to save the M. I was convinced enough to date her for a while and then eventually called off the D when Insaw she was sincere. That was a long time ago and we are still M.

It’s a two way street of communication. First you decide if you want to give her a chance in the first place. She has already indicated to you she is interested by her comment. Communicate with her you are open to it and then communicate what you need. If she is truly interested in saving the M once you have told her you are open to it under conditions, then see where it goes. Good luck.

Mantorok

I recommend telling her that you are moving out of her infidelity WITH OR WITHOUT HER. it’s her choice if she comes along.

Last I remember she was still seeing the OM. While that is happening there is no chance for R.

I would tell her that you are open to trying for R during this process, but that most of the work will be on her. If she us up for it, she will have to show you that through her actions. You can help her define those things, but she’s the one that’s gonna have to do them.

Otherwise you will be moving on.

So basically I said that if we were to R then she would have to prove that she's serious. Now because I've been getting on with my life and we are separating soon I'm kind of happy to continue down that path. Most days I'm fine with it with the odd blip and feeling sad about the situation.

She's not ready to R. She can't leave the AP because emotions have run deep. She thinks that the space of separation will get her out of the fog but I think it just means more time with the AP. I told her that's not good enough and that if losing me hasn't cleared the fog then I wasn't going to sit around while she decides wtf she wants.

Basically there's been lots of talk but zero fucking actions. I'm standing firm in this at the moment.

DarknessFalls

I appreciate your response so thank you. It's good to hear other the other side of the story.

Mantorok, I think you're doing the right thing, if she's with the AP still, after DDay, then filing and separating is the right move. Before you can begin to R, there needs to be remorse and you can't have that if she's still carrying on the affair. It can be difficult because we want our spouses to choose us over everything else, and the affair is evidence that they didn't. To continue with the affair after its exposure is someone really unwilling to come out of that fog. I think telling her that she would need to show actions in order to R is your way of saying, it's a possibility. Ball is now in her court, actions now need to be made on her side. Don't wait around hoping she'll pick you, proceed with the D and if she happens to kick down the door, you can stop that process.

I was done with her but she wasn't. She fought tooth and nail to keep me around, she had a desire for R but she did not initiate it. It had to come from me. It was my choice as where where our relationship stood. As soon as I gave her an opening, she did everything and more to win me back.

Thanks for the responses. Very helpful.

What I don't want to do is force her to make a choice. It has to come from her then I will assess the situation as and when it arises. I was calm but firm on my stance. No pick me dance here.

The longer the A continues though then the less chance for R is my stance.

Mantorok,

When I responded earlier with my comments I was unaware your STBX was still with the AP. Sorry for misunderstanding!

DarknessFalls, no problem I probably should've stated that.

Yes, she's still continuing and is struggling to break it off (fog perhaps?), so I was trying to explain to her that if she really felt R was possible that she has to decide if it's what she really wants and get the ball rolling.

I wont be having the discussion again anytime soon, and at this stage I can honestly say I wouldn't want to, but if there's one thing this trauma has taught me, it's that feelings can change from one day to the next!

Don't wait around hoping she'll pick you, proceed with the D and if she happens to kick down the door, you can stop that process.

This is exactly what I've stated and is what's happening now. I've also made it clear that the path we're on right now feels right to "me", so she knows where I'm at, the way I see it is that if there's genuine remorse then she will find a way through to me, even if I'm not interested in R at this moment in time.

If my W filed for D, I would assume the M was over, even if I wanted to rebuild.

You filed. How is that a signal you are open to R?

If you want R, you need to let her know. You also need to force her to choose. Believe me, her choice says something about her, not about you. Yes, you need to risk her choosing ap again.

Think straight. Talk straight. Act straight.

R (re)builds an M. M is cooperative - it doesn't matter who initiates.

JMO.

[This message edited by sisoon at 2:25 PM, August 18th (Saturday)]

She's not ready to R. She can't leave the AP because emotions have run deep. She thinks that the space of separation will get her out of the fog but I think it just means more time with the AP. I told her that's not good enough and that if losing me hasn't cleared the fog then I wasn't going to sit around while she decides wtf she wants.

You are correct. The fog is an excuse to continue to try out OM. Her actions tell you what you need to know.

Basically there's been lots of talk but zero fucking actions. I'm standing firm in this at the moment.

Talk is meaningless. Her actions tell you she isn't R material.

Your marriage is over. Her affair ended it.

R is like a remarriage. Would you pick her again? That's really what you'd be doing?

If she's still with her OM I doubt she'll leave him and if she did it would only be for a backup plan. You really want to go through this again?

I'm asking this because my WW had given me the impression that she's open to R but only if it's what I want as she's resigned to the fact that we can't recover because of how I reacted to the A which was to file and separate.

Laughable. So you can't R because of your actions?

Her actions were (staying with OM on a more permanent basis) but they somehow don't count?

It's all on you? Really?

Typical cheater script.