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I have read other posts that compassion and empathy by the BS (in no way is this owed to the WS even if they do all the right work) could play a part in forgiveness.

This is true too, I think. Forgiveness is easier once a BS really "gets" why the WS did it... where their head was at, why they made all those awful decisions... and that requires empathy. I am not sure of your story, but I get that my WW was broken inside, desperate for validation, with an emotional void that no man could ever fill but she needed to fix on her own. I can empathize with that, and it makes forgiving her easier (but to tell the truth, I haven't quite gotten to the "grace" step all the way...)

I know as WS you have to be able to let go of the outcome. But you can still work to become a person worthy of empathy, to be self-aware and recognize your own flaws and shortcomings and work to overcome them. By being honest about who you are, understanding what you have done and working to change and be a better person, your BS will have an easier time seeing you as a flawed person working to have integrity again... worthy of empathy.

And yeah, you're right that this type of pain fundamentally changes a BS. That's hard for both the WS and BS to come to grips with. Your BS may not even know that. I think I figured it out about 1 year after D-Day... I was never going to be the same. For better or for worse.

Keep focusing on you, DW. Hang in there.

Thanks again TW. I have been practicing transparency including with my feelings and thoughts and discoveries. BS has not been open to communicating (understandably) so I text and email to be as open as possible to keep him informed.

I get that it's not the time to even be thinking about forgiveness. Thanks for the encouragement!

I will forgive WW. I think I already am in that process. But she lost her marriage to me and that's that. I feel no more desire to get back with her than any other female on the planet to be honest. Maybe even less.

I hope we can be friends in the future.

LM. Where you've come to is a place I am starting to realize that my BH may to. I can see how he's changed and how the pain has ruined his view of the future and the concept of happiness. It is within a few months since DDay/confession and I'm so scared as to whether he'll heal and bits of his old self might return. In any case, I did this to him. His recovery is the priority. If the person he'll be can offer R or forgive (and stay or leave) I do get is out of my and, perhaps, his control. Thank you for your input. Hearing from all perspectives has allowed me to reflect further and more comprehensively.

[This message edited by destroyedwayward at 11:25 PM, October 4th (Thursday)]

I will never forgive my wh. What he did was unforgivable and I don’t feel the need to forgive to move on with my life with him. I see him as almost a separate person now. Life before and after. Maybe that’s how I can move on without consciously forgiving?

I don’t give forgiveness any thought and I don’t think he does either.

We are happy. I have bad days and good days. I do t consider him forgiven. Giving him the gift of r is as close to forgiving as I will ever come.

I am in the same frame of mind with deephurt. I will continue on with my fWW but I do not feel the need to forgive her. Who knows? One day I may, but that choice will have to come organically and with time. I'm not going to force myself to for her sake.

@deephurt & @livingwithpain - It makes a lot if explained that way, that you see your WS as another person. So in essence, is the forgiveness then kind of moot point because you're able to separate the person you're married to from the person who betrayed you?

In either of your cases, did you communicate this to your WS or was it implied by the gift of R?