SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I said I rugswept for the first six months. Let me correct that. I allowed him to rugsweep for the first six months.

At three months out, he was tired of my questions..though I only brought it up once every week or so. Once,after asking a question,and not getting a response, I started to cry. And he told me I was abusing him because I wasn't over it yet.

So he FELT I was abusing him. Does that mean I was?

Hardly.

I'm sorry,dear, that what you did has traumatized me and I'm not healing as fast as you want me to.

Again..many WS feel they're being abused. And they're not. Their spouses pain and anger is simply a consequence of their actions.

That doesn't mean that there aren't some way who are truly being abused. But a lot of the time,they're not.

If you cheated on your husband,and he calls you a slut,and you feel it's abuse, then ok. If you want him to eat the shit sandwich you've served him,and want him to move past the fact that you had sex with another man, but you can't deal with him calling you a name, then get a divorce. Eventually that anger goes away. And,by reading these forums, it seems that anger goes away once the BS knows the WS truly gets it.

My point is not to diminish it in a scenario where someone feels they are being abused. What ever the reason. If you tell someone who is being abused that its their fault and its no big deal, you don't know what could happen next. If someone feels they are being abused its not our place to tell them they are making it up or they deserve it due to their actions. I understand affairs are deal breakers for many. But I can't just ignore someone's post like this and dismiss it because they are a WS.

ETA: A BS currently has a post up that their WS is giving them the silent treatment and everyone is screaming that that is abuse. So I'm not sure why in that scenario it is ok to say that. Just because someone is the WS does not mean they are not also human.

ETA: I work for a national abuse agency and I am sorry but re reading all these posts are making me sick. It is exactly why people don't report abuse.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:20 AM, November 1st (Thursday)]

Very similar to HellFire, my point is that context matters. That's why I was asking for examples from GC.

In reality, the word abuse gets thrown around pretty haphazardly. I had a friend who accused me of being abusive to him and his family. Why? Because I support a different political party & specifically, their economic policies. Abuse? Please...that devalues the actual abuse that happens.

While perception is where we build our realities, perceptions can be incorrect. My wife's IC had an agenda that worked hand-in-hand with my wife's perception. When the facts were presented to someone without the same agenda, what was perceived as reality was shown to be wrong.

I think that some context being supplied in GC's case would help us to understand the perception and provide better feedback.

As a BS, out 14 months from dday, I can say for me, when my hurt - expressed as anger - was met with softness rather than defensiveness, I stopped spewing the venom.

I needed for my WH to "know" how deeply I was hurting and frankly, I am sure I also wanted to hurt him/be cutting with my words, as if that would somehow make me feel better (it didn't).

He’s only happy if he’s making my heart bleed :(

. For me, wanting my WH to hurt was correlated to the level of my despair I was feeling. I think I was also testing him to some degree, see if he was just going to leave when things got uncomfortable for him. As time passed, his dialogue remained consistent with "I am here until you tell me not to be" and I was able to recognize my anger came from hurt and I could articulate myself differently, I too softened.

I also started to ask for what I needed in those moments of rage (not in the heat of it, but after). I told my WH I needed for him to say sorry for putting us here, for hurting me so deeply, despite having said sorry many times before.

I have no doubt that when you are getting attacked verbally it is hard not to defend, but my WH would also remind himself that the topic of attack was of his doing, that the roller coaster of emotions I was living was as a result of his selfishness. Owning it softened it for me.

I think overall, WS should see the trend moving towards less anger with the passage of time. I wonder sometimes for BS who stay stuck in the anger, if the infidelity really is a deal breaker for them, but they just can't be the one to make that call, so they push their WS to their limits, wherever that may be, to make the decision for them.

her husband would oink at her because she gained weight

Wow, so not ok.

Good luck Gravycake

Perhaps there should be two different definitions of abuse. One meaning seems to be harsh words and anger coming out the wrong way. (Which would make most of us abusers).

But true abuse is not about emotions. It is about asserting control and using any means or any emotions both positive or negative to get it. Some abusers use anger, some use gaslighting or even kindness when it suits them to regain control or a combination of all. So I agree with CaptianRogers saying that the word gets tossed around too easily and finding more information is very appropriate. Discovering if a situation is actually abuse takes time and professional help. So, yes, context definitely matters. Let alone the statistic that many abusers see themselves as victims and will cry abuse themselves, gaining empathy against the true victim. Abuse should be taken VERY seriously, but it can be dangerous to let the word be a trump card.

I think that if you respond to your BS's deep expressions of pain with kindness and empathy, that over time it will shift. If it does not shift, then that is a time, like others have said, for help from an MC or IC.

When I did not say the deep things that I was feeling, even though they could sound mean and harsh or whatnot, then I would pick on WH throughout the day. That, I think was worse because it was hateful and punishing, whereas, spitting the venom about the A, was more honest.

Emotions that we take in have to be processed. Perhaps try to see it as a process that will help your BS heal. Anger can actually be a good sign. Often people that are shut down will have to go through anger later on.

More people saying the silent treatment is abusive.

But WS getting hit, punched, scratched, screamed at, called names, things throw at them, their personal items destroyed, isolated from family, interrogated and not allowed to sleep for hours on end, etc etc are just par for the course and to be expected. I just can't even with the blatant double standard.

Come on, pink. No one said physical abuse is ok. Actually, several BS on this thread said it was never ok. Hit, punched,things thrown at them, scratched,etc are all forms of physical abuse.

Personal items destroyed? I think that depends. Are we talking about clothes,lingerie,etc, that the WS wore when intimate with the AP? Are we talking about the phone the WS used to contact the AP? Those things a ws should want to be rid of.

Did the WS family and friends know about the affair? Encourage it? Provide them an alibi, and/or a place to fuck? Are they blaming the bs? Friends with the AP?

Interrogated? A BS has a million questions. If a WS has a problem answering them, then that should signal to the BS that the WS isn't reconciliation material. Not allowed to sleep? I don't know. Is the BS unable to sleep? A lot of BS mention the inability to sleep after dday. Yet, their WS has no problem getting a full night's sleep.

If you FEEL you're being abused,then leave. File.

If you're going to complain that the BS won't stop bleeding all over the carpet,after you've stabbed them repeatedly,and you're tired of having to help them clean up the blood,and bandage the wound, then again, file.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:09 PM, November 1st (Thursday)]

But WS getting hit, punched, scratched, screamed at, called names, things throw at them, their personal items destroyed, isolated from family, interrogated and not allowed to sleep for hours on end, etc etc are just par for the course and to be expected.

Not sure what thread you are getting that from, pink, but it absolutely is NOT acceptable for abuse to happen, regardless of WS or BS.

[This message edited by CaptainRogers at 12:11 PM, November 1st (Thursday)]

These are just things I have read over the past year and the general response is well, that is to be expected (including physical reactions).

Not allowed to sleep- I read a post by a WS here where the BS would not allow her to stop talking for 12 hours answering questions and she was not allowed to rest or sleep.

I just things get taken way to far sometimes on these forums and I would hate for any WS who is a victim of abuse to be made to feel that they deserve it.

The responses here just really upset me. I think it gets lost that WS are actually people too, not just villains.

True. They're people too.

It's too bad that when the WS decided it was acceptable to cheat, that they didn't think of their BS as a person, instead of an obstacle in their way.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:17 PM, November 1st (Thursday)]

It's too bad that when the WS decided it was acceptable to cheat, that they didn't think of their BS as a person, instead of an obstacle in their way.

I'm not debating that. I am debating the notion that abuse of any form is an acceptable retaliation. I'm debating making someone that feels they have been abused to second guess themselves. I'm debating that WS deserve this treatment on a repeated basis once the dust has settled and the questions have been answered and the reconciliation has started.

Both parties have the option to file for divorce in these scenarios. No one benefits from prolonging a hostile living situation.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 12:22 PM, November 1st (Thursday)]

Pink,

On those posts people (WS and BS) Told them it was abuse:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=628173

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=628839

Gently, I do think that in a recent thread of yours that people did not understand where you were coming from at all. They just didn't know. I honestly think all people are asking is for more details. It is true that some might refer to it as abuse when someone cusses them or is angry towards them, but I do think that there is an extent that a WS has to understand where that comes from. I would never advocate for abuse, and there are times that I get scolded for sticking up for a WS, but I do see the BS's on this thread are trying to help the poster discern whether it's an adjustment the OP needs in their perception or if it's actually abuse.

I don't doubt we have women (and maybe men, I don't know if I have seen posts like that) who are being abused. That the rage a BS feels crosses the line.

I hesitate to even speak up to you on this, I know you are struggling and tired and I understand why you feel defensive. There are times that we give these blanketed responses and it's not all one size fits all. But to help this person we really do need to understand what it is she is referring to in her post. And, where they really are in the process based on what she has done on her end.

For example, if Caps wife had come here and said this and we just reinforced the belief I am not sure that would have been a positive move. It seems appropriate people are asking for more information.

I read a post by a WS here where the BS would not allow her to stop talking for 12 hours answering questions and she was not allowed to rest or sleep.

Definitely not cool. Even with the insane number of questions when I couldn't sleep after D-day, I never wouldn't have thought of keeping my wife awake to answer them. Just wrote them all down to be answered at a later date.

I would hate for any WS who is a victim of abuse to be made to feel that they deserve it.

I wholeheartedly agree with that as well. Real abuse, whether emotional or physical, needs to be reported and, I might add, followed up on. I just want to make sure that the word isn't being used inappropriately. I work in a field where, if the MC hadn't followed up with her questions to my wife and simply reported on what was said as being "abuse" to local authorities, my ability to earn is out on hold because I'm on unpaid leave until a full investigation is completed, which would take anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks.

So, just as you are very sensitive to the importance of reporting because of your vocation, I am just as sensitive to the importance of reporting because of mine.

You're assuming it's retaliation, rather than an expression of extreme pain, often masked by anger.

Right. My only issue is in general I have read responses that make it seem like abuse may not be abuse. I just do not like to question someone or make them to feel bad because we don't know what that could trigger, we don't know their living situation. I would rather air on the side of caution.

I do know there are two sides to every story. But if a person feels they are being abused, I would not want to dismiss it.

ETA: Thanks for those links Hikingout, but even some response there start with the phrase "Rage is normal" and several other postings blaming the WS and excusing the BS actions. If a person is in the middle of an abuse situation, they have no self worth left, just reading anything that may slightly condone it would be enough to second guess themselves. Do you know how hard it is for someone that is truly being abused to actually leave and get the help they need? Almost impossible.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 1:04 PM, November 1st (Thursday)]

My H called me every name in the book after dday. Yeah I had a hard time dealing with until I learn that my H was in REAL pain from what I did to him. I didn’t take it to heart the name calling but I did recognize this was from his pain THAT I CAUSED HIM. I seen past the name calling and seen the root of it. I abused my H by cheating him in many different ways so a little name calling is nothing compare to what I did. He never hit me or become physical with me in any way.

Physical abuse is never ok. I have never read on here that anyone has agree that it was ok. I don’t know why this gets brought up everytime this subject comes to light. The OP is not talking about physical abuse.

I think a WS should be to take a little name calling afterwards. Cheating is the worse type of abuse there is so name calling is nothing. I would never hold anything against my H because he called me names We can’t think that a BS is going to act normal or handle this with “grace”. There is a line with all this but a HUGE line was crossed when a WS cheated. So why would want the BS to not to cross that line AT ALL ? That don’t make sense.

OP: Things are condoned on SI that are not acceptable outside in the real world. If you think that your SO is reaching a point that is no longer tolerable, please talk to your IC, or if that’s not possible a clergyman or the domestic violence hotline. Seek out an unbiased party, outline what you have done and what the current environment is in your house.

Hikingout, thank you for your comments on this thread. And on basically any thread and you comment on. It's not hard to see why you and your husband are doing so well these days.

Peace.

While I appreciate the shout out, hellfire, I have to say it's really a product of my environment more than anything else.

My H is maybe biggest reason we are doing well. He was for sure hurt and angry and definitely let me know - but he was also as fair as he was firm. I did not have to bare the brunt of that rage to the degree of what some experience here, he has overall been respectful of me regardless of maybe wanting a divorce or feeling angry. I saw the ugly a few times but not day after day like some here, I couldn't ever say I was close to feeling abused. His age and experience of having already been divorced before allowed him to go into it knowing he was going to be happy again with or without me. So, while he did show anger, and sometimes silence and detachment, very little of the time could I say he was disrespectful.

I am just pointing that out because often it's easy to talk the talk when you don't have to walk all the walk that others here do. I am fortunate to have the resources that we have that getting help was not a financial strain. I have no little kids that I have to divide my attention with. I am also fortunate in that I do know what a healthy happy marriage does look like as we truly had that for many, many years.

We are all coming here with different backgrounds, ages, pre-A marital experiences, etc. I do feel I am doing the work and sincerely want it, but I have had a pretty cushy environment to do this from comparatively. My voice is probably more a product of that than anything else.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:33 PM, November 1st (Thursday)]

Well we are getting closer to what is going on. GC, if you don't feel comfortable sharing the details that's okay, but it does limit our help.

I can imagine some of the things you might be experiencing verbally, because most of us have this experience. And it's because rage IS an expected reaction. I was warned to be on the lookout for it, because my H was in shock and I was so confused as to why he wasn't mad. See, trauma truly is mind altering. And anger is part of grieving which IS healing (side note it doesn't always go in the textbook order). I think the first round of entering the anger stage, probably surprises even them. I think it often is intense the first go, and rage is what we see. IME, the second cycle of anger was waaaaay less intense and I haven't seen anger at all these days. We are close to 3 years past my dday.

Rage is not pretty and it doesn't always feel good. I bet they would probably rather not feel it and be in this situation as much as we would like to escape it. Just as we can no longer shove our emotions down, why would we ask them to? It doesn't have to be a cycle but give your BH some time to work through this. He needs to feel his emotions, and work through it without you telling him he's doing it wrong and it's abuse. Name calling IS NOT HARMLESS neither is verbal attacks, but if you change your thoughts about what is REALLY going on, you might be able to endure it better. It still won't be easy but nothing about this is.

Are you safe in your situation? Do you feel at any moment things could turn dangerous? Ask yourself some factual questions about what is going on here. Can you tell us what you consider the line to be?