SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If he's serious about digging into why and how I'd also suggest to him that he let his individual counselor read what he wrote too.

Wow, that’s super intense. You were perfect. He did pretty well too... until he asked to go home with you... wtf??!!!

Anyway you are one impressive awesome woman!

(((((SpeedBump)))))) I hope you get some rest. I know how draining that had to be for you.

F1

SB, I certainly understand that this was a tough subject for him to discuss (his deceased wife), but if it was important to you (and it should be) than he should have opened up about it and it certainly shouldn't have been a topic that was off limits or that you had to tip-toe around.

I've asked you this question a couple of times thus far and you have yet to answer it (and I certainly understand with everything going on).

SB, how long did you and your H date?

How long were you with each other before you married him?

I ask because I'm trying to get you to examine how well you really knew this man?

I'm not casting any judgment here, but I think it might behoove you to discuss this with your IC.

Playing devils advocate here, but in hindsight might it be that him not ever wanting to discuss his deceased wife, that this should have been a major red flag and not discussing it you were in the dark on if he had truly healed from her passing and that he may potentially had a lot to work through before he could truly move on in any new relationship (and even more importantly be in a place where he could marry someone)?

I ask this not for you to beat yourself up over, but you can't turn the clock back and if you truly want to heal you need to examine your journey and be willing to delve into tough areas (despite how painful it might be) which I have to say YOU'VE BEEN DOING!!!

Just something to chew on my friend.

I believe WH is remorseful and I applaud his actions so far but he has some deep seated issues he needs to face and conquer. If he can do that then it may be enough to start Marriage 2.0.

Speedbump --- please understand I was in no way suggesting that it was OK to start reconciling with WH at this point!!!!

As I posted he has a ton of work to do on himself before that should even become a possibility! He has to figure out why he participated in their evil games and address it.

The fact that he is seeking IC on his own is good but his work is just beginning!! And his request to come home with you was stupid and shows just how much work he has ahead of him!

Your focus right now should be to make yourself healthy and work on your self-confidence. You've been through a trauma that would take anyone to their knees!!!

Sending you strength -----

[This message edited by susieque2 at 5:22 PM, March 28th (Thursday)]

Booyah

I've asked you this question a couple of times thus far and you have yet to answer it (and I certainly understand with everything going on).

SB, how long did you and your H date?

How long were you with each other before you married him?

I'm not avoiding this and I included it way early on in my thread but I know that was so far back now. We've been together coming on 8 years now, married for 5 this July, so we dated almost 3 years before we married. His first wife died 7 years before I met him so it's not like it was fresh and brand new and I was far more interested in the woman he had dated for some years before me. She tried hanging around and so would pop up trying to see him after we started dating so was a bit of a nuisance. I wasn't worried about her and still am not and know he had nothing going on with her because I'd see all the messages and he always told me all about it. But I digress. The point being he did tell me all about first wife and losing her but our discussions weren't deep. If I would then try to ask questions, it was obvious he was not comfortable and resort to the comments I mentioned. Because I'm different from the women in his life before me and AP, coupled with the responses about first wife and my own general insecurities, I've come to believe he "settled" for me. Does that make sense?

As far as pre-marriage though, ours was a nice relationship. We had fun, got along well, had similar interests but also added new components to each other's lives. We are active, like hiking and leisure biking. I don't think I ignored the subject of avoiding his issues with losing his first wife, it just wasn't a major, or as major an issue until the A. Until then it was just wondering about how he felt about all of it and sometimes feeling like she was IT for him. Mind you, these are my conclusions based on how he handled the subject of her. She took on a bigger meaning in my life and marriage with the fallout of the A.

I get that maybe I could have, should have considered all this before marriage but it wasn't blaring then like it is now. I wasn't a shrinking violet about her. It just wasn't a huge subject for me then but any issue or insecurity I had about her took on a whole new meaning and importance since the A. Now it's a problem. Or was. Hope that makes sense.

As for R, we most definitely are not in R. We aren't even in limbo. We are separated. I'm trying to work on me and now it seems he is trying to work on him. And that's it. His asking to come home with me was in a pleading/playful, taking a pulse on where I am with him, kind of way. He wasn't serious while he most definitely would have jumped to come if I'd said yes.

We're talking. That's it. We aren't dating. We aren't even friends at this stage. I don't mean to sound defensive, even though it sounds that way. I just want to clarify that I guess we can all go back and re-evaluate what we should have done differently in our relationships and I'm no different. I guess there are always signs but I don't think I missed any big, obvious ones any more than anyone else. I was happy to marry him and I was happy in our marriage for all the years leading up to the affair and then BAM! Right between the eyes! And now I get to second guess all of it.

Wow, SB......(((((big hugs!)))) For everything you have endured and for everything you’re going thru. You are doing an amazing job, better then I ever did that’s for sure. You really are doing great! You’ve come such a long way and don’t forget that! I’m in awe of you

This is not to diminish the pain of any bs, but his fun in ramping up the con job they were pulling on you is what I hope you get answers for.

It really is a short time since you fell apart and were hospitalized. You are just putting one foot in front of the other right now. Making a decision about the rest of the day is probably exhausting so how can you think about the future right now? Concentrating on recovering your health is paramount. Don’t feel pushed to make decisions. How you feel this week will be different next week and the next. You have had trauma. She declared war on you and he invited her in. This is going take a long time to heal from.

Be safe.

SpeedBump, what you have had to experience in uncovering your spouse's infidelity would test any human beings limits. Reading all those texts with all those insults and hurtful comments. I am so sorry. Many betrayed spouses would make a point of never speaking to their wayward again having gone through what you have with this mountain of plain clear evidence. But you do. I am curious why? Do you see reconciliation on the table?

Thanks Cooley2here - I definitely am not making any life-changing plans right now. My day consists of only deciding what my next move is. Long-term for me is July, when I have to find another place to live. That's it. And I'm definitely not thinking whether I am right or wrong to talk to WH or not. At the moments I decide to, it's usually to do with wanting information and feeling entitled to it.

I will also share that in a session with my IC, we discussed the behavior oF WH and AP and the impact on me. The horror of what they were doing. My struggle with feeling it is so much worse than what others go through and seemingly impossible to overcome. Her response really helped me, along with a lot of what many of you have also shared with me here. She agreed it was pretty bad but she said it's no more or less worse than most. If I needed to compare, she's heard far worse. People can do horrible things to each other. What makes my burden harder is obviously the messages and living it out in real time and living with the enemies. We are working on what made me incapable of standing up for myself.

Then she told me every affair takes planning, plotting and intentionally aiming to deceive other people, to speak poorly of BSes and to hurt them. Someone who has sex with AP in their own bed requires the same. They don't just fall in bed. They planned, plotted, lied, deceived and probably had said many horrible things about BS to get to that point. Many sneak kisses, grab body parts, flirt around BS, have sex nearby, introduce friends, family and kids to AP, even to BS. But most don't know exactly what was said, how it was said, when it was said or what was said about them to get to that point. I do. I probably saw 85% of that play out once I found out and that's what's making it so hard for me and the trauma I have to deal with. Others have to guess what was said or rely on WS or AP to piece it together for them so they never get the full truth. But I have more of my truth which means I have a lot to deal with because in affairs, the truth is never pretty. I know she was working to downplay my trauma but what she said also makes more sense and helps alleviate some.of my personal pain by not feeling I'm the worst case scenario. It's pretty messed up to gain any relief from that, but it did help. I've been traumatized. I now know that I freeze when trauma occurs and so I'm trying to work on that. Facing my fears a little bit at a time is what I'm working on now. Taking back a little power (access to my house) and facing the tough conversations (asking WH the questions I have) are the steps I am trying to take to get stronger.

I wish I could just stand tall and walk away. Never look back and go and kick ass in life and love, but I'm just me. Speedbump. Horribly wounded and just trying to stand again right now. I want to be wonder woman but I'm not. I'll have to leave that for someone else.

You love him. Being betrayed doesn’t stop love. There are too many posters who agree.

SB, I think one of the reasons you have always been slightly unsteady, or maybe uncomfortable, in this relationship is because he used subtle power plays. It is very effective when the person being played trusts.

The reason your posts have so many responses is because your husband did this so differently. Instead of doing this away from home he did it in front of you. This was gaslighting to perfection. You knew something was off. You found the tablet and watched him wreck your marriage. You were paralyzed with pain and fear. Bingo. You are a big mess and he made it happen to you without yelling or threatening. Power.

Now his sweet life is gone. Such a sad person.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 12:27 PM, March 29th (Friday)]

Then she told me every affair takes planning, plotting and intentionally aiming to deceive other people, to speak poorly of BSes and to hurt them. Someone who has sex with AP in their own bed requires the same. They don't just fall in bed. They planned, plotted, lied, deceived and probably had said many horrible things about BS to get to that point.

Yes I agree whole heartedly with your IC ^^^^^. Not every affair is exactly the same but all of them had to plan, plot, discuss and deceive. When a WS says that is not true they are lying to us and to themselves. When a WS says it was a "mistake" we want to throw up, when they say they "just don't know how it happened" it is another layer of taking a step back and not taking responsibility. When your WS kept seeming to twist it all into how evil and horrible this OW was and she was a "predator" and he just "could not help himself or just did not know how to say no" I knew he was not getting it. They make themselves out to be so helpless and one cannot get to any start of any kind of healing until they accept that THEY are the ones who opened the door willingly every day to your life and your marriage. THEY did it.... yes the OP was there as well.... but THEY allowed it.

We are working on what made me incapable of standing up for myself.

Glad you are working on this, but my 2 cents is when a BS finds out we many times go into shock and are traumatized. That shock can continue to play out and can leave a BS frozen in place, able to still maybe go to work or get the kids off to school but totally frozen and unsure of which way to go as they have a total life that has been turned upside down. PTSD is a real thing and the really good therapists will understand this and help a patient find a way to heal from this. Its not unlike getting robbed at gun point or living thru a car wreck or anything like this... its just that we are still standing up and walking around, maybe not physically beaten up but emotionally we are like a zombie, so somehow people think we are OK and we are not.

Glad you are using the IC and getting help. None of it was fair, none of it was your fault, but you do have to now live with trying to heal from it.

[This message edited by realitybites at 6:29 AM, March 29th (Friday)]

Not pitiful, not pitiful, not pitiful, SpeedBump.

Anyway you are one impressive awesome woman!

Correct!!!

I caution, like others have, that it's too soon to get your hopes up. He's moving in the right direction but you don't know if it's sustainable yet. It might take quite a while to determine if it is.

If it is and R is what you want that's great. If it's a deal breaker for you that's okay, too. It's about what you want/need.

I totally understand about information about the deceased wife and marriage now being important. There were things that I shrugged off when dating WW and after marriage that became very important when things started popping up before and after the adultery.

Your WH making sly or snide comments about your XH reveals something about his character to me. He won't talk of his deceased wife but wants to diminish your X seems small.

My WW tries to say there wasn't planning, plotting, deceiving, lying, etc. in her LTA. She still doesn't understand everything she did to carry on for 4 years with a COW. They used my calendar to plan around. When they travelled together they took extra nights. Shew would check with me to make sure I was where I had said I was so she knew how much time they had. It's common with adultery. Even with ONS, IMO, the mindset was there to take advantage when either looking or being "caught".

You're not Wonder Woman. I'm not Superman. We just do the best we can. But I say to you again, you are doing amazing even as you feel you're pathetic. It's still very early in the continuum for you. Continue with your IC who, by the way, seems to be very good. Two steps forward, one back. Dust off and take another step forward. Strength to you, SpeedBump.

Hi Speedbump,

First of all, your story is not the worst one i've seen on here, not by a long shot. The difference is you saw it and read it all in real time. I have no idea what my husband actually said about me. He says he didn't say bad things, but I don't believe it for a second. I saw enough texts to see that there were bad things said. All of our spouses have done something evil. Adultery is evil. But I believe people can change, and facing the hard reality of the evil they did and the pain they caused can bring that change.

You may feel like your story is worse than most, but if you read other posts on here, you will see that your husband's behavior after being caught is better than most, so that is something.

It sounds like he's doing some hard work on himself. Don't write him off just yet. Watch and wait and see how he does. He obviously loves you. If he didn't he wouldn't be this emotionally broken and he wouldn't be facing up to what he has done in such a raw, painful way.

I'm not saying it excuses anything he's done. Far from it, but I think the shock at himself and his behavior will bring about immense personal growth from him.

You both have a lot of healing to do. I am praying for you and rooting for you. You have shown such bravery and strength. You can do this!

Thanks SB for the clarification.

Continue to do whatever you need to do in order to heal from this and get to a place of peace.

I like that you're standing up for yourself and asking yourself tough questions.

I don't think there's a man on SI that's followed your thread that wouldn't LOVE to have a woman in their life with your attributes!! Your H was CLUELESS on how truly BLESSED he was having you as his wife but that's on him and it shouldn't make you doubt who you are and special you are.

I (and others) can continue to tell you this but you have to get to a place where you believe it (and SB please keep the faith that you will my friend).

Hang in there and keeping pushing forward.

OK good people of SI, please talk me off the ledge. Last time I got hasty and did a little lashing out. This time I want to be better.

Remember when I ran into mutual friend while at a business lunch and later that day I got a hateful email from AP? I was fuming and replied while copying others (WH and mutual friend.). Then I blocked AP on email. She's blocked everywhere else, too.

This morning I'm on email and cleaning out stuff. Well, I had no idea that even if you block people, you still get the email, it just goes to Spam. Yep, you guessed it. She had continued to send me emails - 3 in total - after my reply to her. Each more hateful than the one prior. She is a complete lunatic. How can someone who has done what she has done be so delusional? I'm the awful person, I'm crazy, I'm ruining her life!??? RUFKM?

I know I should not have even read them but I couldn't control myself. The good news is that this time, even though I want to, I have not replied...yet. Oh, I did start assaulting my keyboard pounding out a reply and then I stopped and took a deep breath.

So here's the gist and why I think I want to reply and copy so many more people on this email to her....she is essentially threatening me. She implies she "has ways to hack my email and send messages from me to people to ruin me." I mean, wth? I feel as though I should forward her email to everyone we know saying, "just in case you get an email from me that sounds crazy and insane, please know it's not me. Evidently someone we know knows how to "hack" into my email and pretend to be me." This email would include the entire thread that started this whole thing where she blasts me for telling our mutual friend about the A with WH.

Help me out here, please. The most recent email is from Thursday, the day after I last saw my WH. She mentions me being a "threat" to her because I am making clear I am back and leaving my car in plain site. Can you believe it? Well, at least my game worked! But come on!!!!

I am shaking mad and trying to calm down while at the same time keep thinking that had I never gone to clear out my email folders, I'd be none the wiser and life would go on as always. But I don't like her threats and for that reason, feel that maybe some action might be in order. I have not told WH even though he is on the email thread but I also know he hasn't seen her emails because they also go to his spam folder because he blocked her, too. I know for a fact he has not seen them because once I got mine, I checked his email and there they sit, in spam, not having been read yet. I would have been fuming otherwise! I permanently deleted them from his account. I don't know why but I took solace in that.

Help me, please. Take the high road? Duke it out on email? What say you, please?

[This message edited by SpeedBump at 4:21 AM, March 31st (Sunday)]

Don't reply yourself, Speedbump but I think report them to the police, or at least show them to a solicitor. I think you need to be working towards getting a restraining order against her. I don't know where you are in Europe so don't know how the procedure works - but I'd get the ball rolling. I'd also tell WH to do the same - I do think he needs to know this is happening - for himself and also because he needs to report this too. At the very least she's threatening illegal behaviour and stalking.

This woman is unhinged and needs to be warned off - officially, imo. There really does appear to be something wrong with her mentally. She's evil, she was playing a 'game' with you and she doesn't like that in her eye's you're now 'winning'. The sooner you sell that house and have no need to go anywhere near there the better. But I would 100% report and get this behaviour documented. ((()))

She mentions me being a "threat" to her because I am making clear I am back and leaving my car in plain site

Oh, I enjoyed this vicariously, SB. That she thinks you’re back and has gone apeshit as jealous bad loser. She is acting out her sense of powerlessness to some extent, but she is clearly a bunny boiler and needs careful handling.

There’s a number of ways of dealing with this. Getting legal restraint to protect yourself and your property seems prudent.

But I do agree with the idea that you insure against any slander attempts by her by taking first strike. I.e. inform a limited circle of people (that you and she know mutually) that you are receiving threats from her (you could copy her email) and warning them that they might be included/ contacted in her attempts to damage you. Or at least contact the mutual friend.

That is probably going much more public than you would like and even if precautionary may be taken as baiting her thereby inviting retaliation. Standard advice here would be to continue to demonstrate complete indifference to OWs, living well being the best revenge, and that is generally the best policy - for your own peace of mind and not to poke the bear.

But threats are being made, no matter how puny, and I would get some legal advice. With her being a bunny boiler, your WH may end up being targeted so it seems sensible to warn him.

Personally, I’m afraid I would enjoy continuing to park my car there, which I know is giving OW too much space rent free in ones head and actions. But ... having been played, I would want some fun. But that’s just me.

Edited to add that I doubt you’d get a restraining order but a good cease and desist letter from a lawyer should give her due warning of serious repercussions for any continuing threats, harassment or contact from her.

It is of course infuriating that our waywards spouses have willingly invited such crazy malevolence into our lives. It does seem that at this stage you and he need a collectively agreed plan of action on this. She is a threat being next door.

Blackmail is best dealt with by not succumbing to its demands (in this case, I guess she is hoping to intimidate and rile you at this point, and is assuming you don’t want exposure of the situation), and my own feeling is to let others know what is happening, at least in the neighbourhood and mutual acquaintance circle.

[This message edited by Edie at 5:45 AM, March 31st (Sunday)]

I feel as though I should forward her email to everyone we know saying, "just in case you get an email from me that sounds crazy and insane, please know it's not me. Evidently someone we know knows how to "hack" into my email and pretend to be me." This email would include the entire thread that started this whole thing where she blasts me for telling our mutual friend about the A with WH.

First let me say that you have handled this awful situation like a rockstar, now back to the issue at hand, I like the idea of letting ALL people know about the "hacking" stuff, she may not know how to do it but this woman is unhinged and could hire someone to do it, so yes inform them just in case. Do not engage with her in a back and forth email war, just ignore her, believe me when I say people hate being ignored.

She sounds delusional. Show the emails to your WH. He needs to be on the alert as well. Does the country where you are allow ROs? I know that Europe has some pretty strict laws concerning privacy. Ask an attorney. My concern is your job. She wants you gone. She might contact your place of business.

I know you hate to dig any deeper but find out if your H promised her he was leaving you. In her mind he is hers. If he has been blunt with her that he is done you might have a dangerous person on your hands.

She might be trying to get a rise out of you because it will pull him back in her orbit.

She feels ownership of him. It almost sounds like if she can’t have him no one can.

Be careful and stay alert.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 6:19 AM, March 31st (Sunday)]