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I think the issue here is not the race but the cheating.

She is angry and grasping at straws trying to figure this all out.

Her anger is coming from a place of hurt.

I called my WH and his AP every name in the book, even referring to her race (which I have a bit of in me). It came out of anger and hurt and frustration and the destruction of my trust. It had nothing to do with race, it had everything to do with the emotional pain I was feeling at the time.

When you are in so much emotional pain, you lash out. At anything.

Be patient.

[This message edited by annb at 9:52 AM, March 16th (Saturday)]

Let's try some real talk here. I have been following this thread since it started, due to my own circumstances. My wife's AP was black as well. Sorry to say, but that is all I see. She didn't just cheat on me, she cheated with a black man. Does that make me a racist? I don't think so, but it appears that I am in a minority with that opinion. I have black friends, black coworkers (that I have hired after the affair), some of my favorite people to watch on TV are black. That does NOT mean I am all comfy cozy with them fucking my wife. I guess that must make me racist too. Even though I would not want anyone to have sex with her other than me, if said person was Asian, Latin, or white.

This is accurate. Same with me--WW's first A was with a black man, and I'm white. That was a big obstacle for various reasons.

Is it because I'm racist? No, of course not. Part of the issue is because AP was physically different from me in a way that I could never be. If WS is interested in someone with a different hair color, ok. Different weight? Sure, maybe you can lose weight. Different sexual interests? Experiment, meet in the middle, whatever. You can adjust and change and try to fix things.

WS is attracted to a different race? You can't change that. You are helpless to do anything about it. BS cannot compete with that or compromise.

OP's BS is hurt and scared and frustrated that her WS is attracted to something BS can never be. That's a terrible position to be in.

It's all too easy to bash someone for what they say when their life is falling apart. I find it hypocritical that we are all here due to cheating, and some suggest that reconciling is possible, yet racism is the problem here. Come on everyone! Stop with the political correctness, it's crap in here.

That's a very privileged statement to make, and I wonder if black BSs would agree with you, that somehow a white BS should get a "temporary racist due to infidelity trauma" pass, or if they would agree that calling someone the N-word is never okay, and your racism is showing. If you were Christian, and your AP was Jewish, should comments about Hitler or gas chambers be given a pass? Or would those still be offensive, anti-semitic comments?

Let's try some real talk here. I have been following this thread since it started, due to my own circumstances. My wife's AP was black as well. Sorry to say, but that is all I see. She didn't just cheat on me, she cheated with a black man. Does that make me a racist? I don't think so, but it appears that I am in a minority with that opinion. I have black friends, black coworkers (that I have hired after the affair), some of my favorite people to watch on TV are black.

Being bothered by the differences between you the AP is something I think most, if not all, BSs struggle with. If you are bothered because the AP was a different race than you, I think that's normal. Just like you might be bothered if they're a different religion, different body type, etc. I don't think that means or makes you a racist.

That does NOT mean I am all comfy cozy with them fucking my wife. I guess that must make me racist too. Even though I would not want anyone to have sex with her other than me, if said person was Asian, Latin, or white.

A reasonable thing to yell at your wife:

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU FUCKED THAT GUY.

A racist thing to yell at your wife:

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU FUCKED THAT N*****.

I think the issue here is not the race but the cheating.

I disagree. If the BS hit their WS, it is still a violent act. Yes, you could argue that there are extenuating circumstances and that the trauma of an affair can make people act out of character... but many, many BSs never raise a hand to their spouse after d-day. And when it does happen, how many WSs that post here about it are advised that DV is never okay, and they should not tolerate or accept such treatment?

Sorry for the delay in my response.

My BS asked if we could discuss the race issue in MC, I was okay with that as long as she was comfortable discussing. Turns out, both of us had been wanting to bring it up in MC but never did out of fear of making the other uncomfortable.

The MC session went well. There were more deep seaded issues that I wasn’t aware of from her childhood which helps me understand her focus. Our MC also asked the she discuss this with her IC which she has agreed.

Things have been going well since this session. I feel we are communicating more openly.

It’s really easy to fall into the trap of hating and degrading the AP. It took me a long time to stop obsessing over her myself. I hope it’s still early enough for you both that this will pass and she will stop blaming a race and realize that it was just two messed up individuals who hurt her.

Both of my WH's APs were blonde. Doesn't give me a right to think all blondes cheat (or are stupid). One was thin, one not so much. Doesn't give me the right to say skinny people are cheaters, any more than it gives me the right to fat shame the other. The fact that they engaged in physical behavior with my WH DOES give me the right to think THESE two women are whores with no morals, no decency, and serious character flaws, etc.

BUT

I have to admit that in the aftermath of dday, the fact that the LTA POSOW was blonde really got me - there is something to the "differentness" that is bothersome, and it took me awhile to realize that it would not have made one lick of difference who she was or what she looked like. She was willing to adore and f*ck my WH, which is all that really mattered.

BUT YET

As I really think about it, the ways in which POSOW and I are similar is ALSO bothersome.

SO

Affair partners suck. No matter what is different about them. No matter what is similar about them. Affair partners suck.

ETA: Hurting 1110: Thanks for the update. I'm glad to hear the MC went well. Sorry I missed that before I posted.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 6:45 PM, March 18th, 2019 (Monday)]

Not to excuse anything, but the context of any comments must be taken into full account.

When a BS finds out that they are not the apple of your eye, and that they are a BS instead, those who are the most trusting and felt the most secure, can be so devastated that they are not actually operating in their "right mind". I know that I wasn't after D-Day, I wasn't able to sleep for 3 days and I still had to go to work (self employed).

I would equate the N- word with a lot of other words that can come out in that state of rage and despair (I've heard that word and other racially charged words used in my lily white redneck upbringing and as a small child used some of those words till I was taught better by my parents).

No, I don't condone it, nor do I use it, but I still say words that my parents would never condone (in other words, I curse rather freely and casually without a lot of emphasis, and take the name of God in vain as we would refer to it in the church I grew up in, I curse more in a single day than I heard my parents combined use in my entire 18 years growing up). Curse words are just words to me, I use them casually.

But, on the other hand, I'm pretty tightly controlled overall, but I still don't know how I was able to keep my grip on my emotions to keep my cursing in check when my wife confessed. It was indescribable. I usually curse about simple things, but there was absolutely nothing I could say that would express my emotions, cursing just doesn't carry that kind of "oomph" to me, perhaps that was why I couldn't even bring myself for the most part to rip off a string of obscene commentary like I would when a project is not going well.

However, I would never use the N- word, or the C- word for Chinese or Asian persons, or any of the other words that I grew up hearing.

I suppose, if you put me in the same situation as your BS, because that N- word would be such a violent transgression of my norms, that I might have done the same thing, because nothing else would convey the rage and despair adequately. I don't know though, and don't want to find out.

FWIW, I knew two people who apparently NEVER used the N- word, until they were ill (but they were raised in a frankly racist society construct), were avid advocates of equality, one was a freedom marcher and civil rights activist that was quite well known where she came from. When ill, they were not "in their right mind" and both went on to die, and in that phase they both said terribly racist things that mortified the people working with them, caring for them, and their families. One was a man, and his wife of many years said she couldn't believe the things he said in the hospital. The other was a woman, and she was even worse, and directed her comments toward medical staff who were not white.

So, perhaps to be more brief, I would reason that knowing we all have latent degrees of racism inherent in our upbringing, we should be place it in the same place as other forms of verbal abuse, misogynistic, racist, or misandristic statements, etc. NOT OK, but not really surprising if taken in context.

Your brain is a sponge of information, we all have shit like this in there ready to pop out when we are not functioning well.

Where a married person engages in a sexual affair, the physicality of the AP can be one of man pain triggers for the BS. "He had a bigger dick and rippling six-pack abs. I'm short and chubby with a small penis." "She had giant, gravity-defying boobs. I'm 58 years old, nursed 4 babies, my boobs are definitely feeling the effects of gravity."

Race involves physical factors. "My husband's AP was an obsidian model. She looked like Lupita Nyong'o. My skin is paler and wrinklier than Roseanne Barr after a winter in Winnipeg."

At that level, race is a legitimate factor in the mix of pain factors endured by a BS. Even at a less superficial level. I'm white. My wife is black. I know (because we've talked about it) that she would be more hurt if I had an A with a white woman, or an Asian woman, than she would if I had an affair with another black woman. As a black woman, she suffers from self-doubt about her attractiveness, and me choosing an AP with characteristics other than hers would magnify that self-doubt.

Your issue is not any of the above. Your BS said "I don't think black people and white people should be together." That is racist. Period.

Her racism is her issue to work through. There are plenty of immutable characteristics of APs regardless of race. If she can't get over her own predjudices, then you are going to have to accept that R may not be possible.

The elephant in the room.

What is the difference between "I don't think white people and (insert any other race) should be together and "I don't think a wo(man) and a wo(man) should be together? Absolutely nothing.

Many who think as this BS does, fought hard to insure that marriage is only valid between a man and a woman.

Perhaps instead of seeing an IC, the BS should take a course in history. A history that includes where one can be killed for simply loving a different race.....or the same gender.

[This message edited by 66charger at 6:13 PM, March 22nd (Friday)]

Can I just insert that there are only a handful of races on this planet and the issue with different ETHNICITIES is a problem for those who are INTOLERANT ?

Intolerance has a lot more to do that colors of skin or religions that differ or conflicts that arise ...I kind of hate the race card being used when it isn't about race but straight up prejudice against others..

That being said , my WH AP was from an ethnic background that is generally looked down upon by people from his region of origin...and I know that he has disdain for people who fit into that region, so I understand your partner's reaction , but at the end of the day...she is destroyed by your infidelity more than who it was done with...

So please focus on that, rather than pretending to be shocked and trying to ensnare your partner in a racism debacle...you cheated and breached the trust..it's all on YOU

I guess where I struggle to understand is this.....

We are a same sex couple & both would be offended by those that would show prejudice towards our homosexuality. So I don’t understand how she can in turn have so much hatred for a different race.

In trying to communicate about the A, it always starts off with open communication where I feel we are progressing. But always ends with her anger & disgust at me for the race of the AP. She stated to me that if my A had been with a “hot blonde woman” that she feels she could get past that but the fact that it was with (insert racial slur) she doesn’t know if she can can past that.

I assure you I am not deflecting from the fact that the responsibility lies on me. It was my A that brought us here. The race issue has been discussed in MC & she is also addressing this in IC.

Any guidance or advice on how I can handle or what do I say when the conversation turns to hatred over race. The racial slurs make me uncomfortable but when I’ve expressed that she accuses be of defending AP. I just truly don’t know what to do.... We’ve been together for 7 years & I have not seen this prejudice side of her until disclosure of A and identity of AP.

Please don’t bash my BS for racism. I know this is a sensitive subject. I’m just looking for advice on how I can best handle when our conversations switch to the anger concerning race of AP.

She stated to me that if my A had been with a “hot blonde woman” that she feels she could get past that but the fact that it was with (insert racial slur) she doesn’t know if she can can past that.

It's really important to get past this. She thinks she would have been fine with you cheating with a hot blonde woman... that's not true, I can almost guarantee it. Hey, I thought I would be fine with my (ex)H having a side piece... and it devastated me.

What really would have happened is that she would have grown all kinds of insecurities in comparing herself to the hot blonde woman, the devil is always in the details.

She wants to think that the A is bothering her for reasons that are different from the reasons the A is actually bothering her.

It's really really important for her healing that she develop a keener self-awareness, and to realize that she is devastated because she was betrayed, not because the AP was another race. She simply will never make progress until she gets to this point. I don't know how you get her there though.

I think this is not really the time to try to fix the racism that started in her childhood, that's another project.

Focus on that hot blonde comment. Get her to try to imagine some scenarios and some details. What if the AP was white but homely? What if the AP was not only a hot blonde but also more charismatic or funnier or smarter than your W (or whatever she sees as her defining characteristic). Or what if she was less so? What if your mutual friends had met and really liked your AP? Or what if they hated her?

There are a million details that can be heartbreaking about an A but the underlying heartbreak is the betrayal. It's crucial to get past the details and to the heart of it.

She wants to think that the A is bothering her for reasons that are different from the reasons the A is actually bothering her.

Bingo!

And I don't know if there is much you can do other than patiently wait for her to work through it - and the dreaded 4-letter word of TIME. Your dday is only a few months ago....at 4 months out, I was still a basket case... and still focusing on things that would not help me heal.

I would probably do what I can to ignore that aspect of things (and as a BS, I'm kind of shocked to see myself type this)... IOW, ignore the race-related/racist remarks and respond to the rest of it.

Personally, I don't know what I would have thought at the time... but today, if my WH's AP had been Halle Barry or Roseanne Barr, it really doesn't matter. What matters is being lied to, deceived, and cheated on. What matters is the WS feeling and - by actions - showing remorse for those things.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 10:15 PM, March 25th, 2019 (Monday)]

If you had cheated with a hot blonde:

Means the AP was hotter than me the BS.

With your choice of AP it was a doble slap. The

first slap to the face was that you cheated. The

second slap was how could you cheated on me with

someone way less desirable than me.