SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello all,

Last week I discovered that my husband of 12 almost 13 years has been having an affair with a former colleague for at least two years, most probably longer than that. We are both 39 years old and have a 10 year old son and a five year old daughter. Our marriage has been really bad for several years actually, shortly after our daughter’s birth he started going out almost every night, coming home very late due to partying and drinking with friends. I was very tired at the time, busy finishing my MA degree and taking care of a five-year old and a newborn. Anyhow, we grew further and further apart, he wasn’t involved with the children and family life at all and if he spent an evening at home with us he would either fall asleep on the couch in front of the TV or be glued to his phone.

Despite the fact that he went out clubbing non stop, I never really suspected that he was cheating on me, let alone being involved in another partnership with the same person for such a long amount of time. Deep inside though, doubts were developing and I started to suspect one particular woman who eventually turned out to be his affair. Last June, he decided to move out and left me and our two children. Apparently he couldnt take our constant fighting anymore and needed time for himself. He didnt ask for divorce and neither did I but we sort of decided together that we needed to separate to see what the future would hold for us. My son, 9 years old at the time, was devastated obviously but thankfully (actually sad, but helpful in this situation) got used to his parents living apart quite quickly as his daily routine didn’t actually change at all as his father had never been involved anyhow.

Last week I found his old phone that he left here after he got a new one and I managed to guess the password. For some strange reason, I could still access his whatsapp messages and what I found was the biggest shock of my life. Sex talk, talking about getting married, photos, emotionally intimate conversations, you name it and all of this with the very woman I actually had asked him about several times and each time he denied and called me crazy. I didnt know how to react and who to talk to, I was in shock and I needed a plan. You have to know that my husband and I are from two different countries, I am from Europe and he is from a Middle Eastern country where I have been living since we got married. Thankfully I have a very close relationship with my parents in law so I went t to see them and told them what had happened. They were devastated and asked him to talk to them and now everybody knows. They are totally on my side and also promised me and their grandchildren their support no matter what would happen next which calmed me down a bit because I was/am still petrified about divorcing in this country. My husband then confessed everything (obviously, as I had all the proof) and told me that he was so so sorry but that he also had feelings for this other woman and that he had felt neglected by me and blablabla....I seriously wanted to throw up. He continued and said that he had planned to break up with her (who knows me and my children very well btw) and return to us but now that I had found out his “plan” obviously hadn’t worked out. I told him that I wanted to divorce immediately and that I could never ever trust him again as he had basically been leading a double life with no intention to confess.

He then called me the next day and said that he didnt want to lose his family and that he had made a huge mistake and that he still loved me so much. Honestly, I dont know how men think and how he could possibly think that what he did aimply required an apology and then I would take him back with open arms! “Everybody makes mistakes”, “please help me to be a better man” and “we can fix it” is what I hear everyday now. He basically made the whole decision-making my responsibility now and told me “I am ready to try again, its up to you now”. He even dared to tell me I should think of our children, which for me is the cheapest thing he could say as this is exactly what he did not do when he got involved with this disgusting other woman. I am so so confused. On the one hand, me and the kids have been managing very well without him and I was ok with him being gone, and now, although I know what he did to me and what a weak liar he is I am thinking well, maybe, just maybe, he really didnt mean it (I know, it sounds so stupid) and that he woke up now and that I am to blame for not giving him another chance...Then again, he did somehing so horrible to me and was deeply involved with another woman, no only physically but also emotionally which is even more intimate, that I cannot see him the way I used to anymore. Plus, even before he moved out and before I knew we did not have a very good marriage. If anyone else had told me this exact story I would have definitely asked this person to call it quits and file for divorce. And now, suddenly, I am so so scared of doing this although I have all the rights in the world

to do so. I am financially not dependent on him so this is not holding me back. Its just so screwed up and I am

so pissed off and hurt when he

says “everyone makes mistakes” as if what he did to his family in the sneakiest way ever would a petty thing that

can be forgiven easily. On the one hand I dont see a future formusnand on the other hand I am so scared to not be his wife anymore and change my life so drastically. Plus, I will not take the kids and go to Europe, I would stay here, my life s good here and I wouldnt take his children away from him and vice versa as he never did anything bad to them. I really dont know what to do...

Maya, I don't agree that he never did anything bad to your children.

You shared with us that he was not a good father; that he wasn't home in the evenings and when he was he'd fall asleep; you've told us how neglectful a parent he has been--to the degree that your children's lives did not change much after he moved out.

Your H cheated seriously, continuously, for two years disrespecting and exploiting his children's mother. His children's mother is now very unhappy and distraught having come to learn what her husband was doing--disrespecting and so badly hurting his children's mother is also hurting his children.

Your H has violated his marriage; he has seriously damaged his relationship with his children's mother--that is also doing bad for the children.

Your H is not a good role model for his children.

Please understand that you need not make any decision now regarding your H. But when you do decide it should be on complete understanding of who your H is and of what he is capable.

I would strongly advise you to find a very good therapist to help you sort out your feelings, to lend support, and to help you decide how you want to live your life going forward. Learning about such deception as your describe is traumatic; your H has severely damaged your marriage and your relationship. It's good that his family is on your side and that you feel comfortable in his country; it's good that you do not have financial worries. But you can also benefit from a good counselor and a good betrayal support group.

You do know what to do because you have already done it.

You have put yourself and your children first. Rock on!!!!!

I’m sorry you found out the hard truth. It hurts even more b/c I think you know that all the years “the marriage wasn’t good” was due, in part, to his Affair. Three people cannot be part of a marriage. If your H was unhappy - you two need to work on that.

I suggest do not make any hard decisions right now about Divorce. It is too soon and you are still emotionally devastated.

Rather I suggest you wait and see IF he makes any changes. IF he starts to do anything to help you heal or make amends. Does he show remorse or does he show regret for getting caught? They are two different things.

Continue here to read in the Healing Library (upper left corner by the Dr Phil box). Continue to post about whatever you need to discuss on this thread.

It’s good you do not need to financially depend on him. That puts you in the driver seat.

Ask him what is he going to differently now? How is he going to unify the family? Do not give him suggestions or answers. If he is vague and says “I will do whatever it takes” then you should say “I will wait and see what you do”.

He has to earn your respect back. He has to earn his way back to his family. He threw it away. Not you.

And if you lead him and tell him what to do - you will never know if he did it on his own and is truly committed to you and the marriage and the family OR if he took the steps b/c you told him to and he is just trying to take the easy way out.

Time. Time will tell you everything. Ignore his words and watch his actions. Actions tell everything. And be vigilant to make sure the Affair is over or he doesn’t start up with someone else.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:32 PM, March 10th (Sunday)]

Thanks to both of you for your quick an supportive responses. Yes, I definitely agree that I need a good therapist to help me sort out my feelings as I am utterly confused an emotionally going from one extreme to the other. I think deep inside I know that our time as a married couple has expired and yet I am overcome by feelings of doubt and fear of a new chapter in my life. Absurd and I never expected I’d feel that way! Sometimes I wish that he would tell me that he wanted to stay with the other woman because at least I wouldnt have been put in the role of the decision maker...and then I am like hang on, that is such bullshit, how dare he actually tell me that and sell himself as the remorseful guy who says he is ready for a new beginning and that I was weak if I didnt understand that “we all make mistakes”...:

I Agree with the 1st wife. I pray for you and your family. Believe in yourself. You will get through this!

Making life altering decisions when you are in this much pain is difficult. Right now you need a physical, a therapist and a lawyer. Just getting your ducks in a row for either way.

What is concerning is that this was not a short term thing. This was a way of life for him. You, and your children, were number 100 on his list of priorities. How is he going to change that. He might manage for a while but long term is going to tell you whether he is good husband/father material. So, just don’t do anything about the marriage right now. Just do what you need to by doing the next thing. Make your own priorities and do those. He is an afterthought right now. You and your kids come first, second etc.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 4:28 PM, March 10th (Sunday)]

Normally, I completely agree with not making any decisions right away. BUT your WH left you for the OW for months AND he refuses to take any responsibility for it. He's a ticking time bomb. He could go back to the OW or find a new one at any time because according to him, if this doesn't work out, it's all your fault.

Nothing is stopping him from doing it again. Nothing is stopping him from lining up his ducks and getting a divorce from a place that's advantageous for him and screws you over. Staying with him while he has zero reason to change is dangerous for you.

At the very least, see a lawyer and know what to expect if things suddenly go south. Do get that therapist and work out leaving since that's what you learn towards and your WH is giving you zero incentive to stay.

Just to be clear, you did not make this choice: he did. He made it two years ago, and has made it again every day since then. You guys already separated and your WH had all of this time to see what life looked like without guys. At no point did he want you guys back until his parents likely shamed him. I'm of Middle Eastern descent, and the parental control/shame is pretty heavy. Thankfully his parents are supporting you (though be prepared for this to change, since he is now trying to "repent"). You have already been living your life just fine without him, and he you, so why change the status quo now? Just get a divorce and move on with your life, without guilt.

You need an exit plan

Hide money and the kids passports

I don't trust that jerk

If anyone else had told me this exact story I would have definitely asked this person to call it quits and file for divorce. And now, suddenly, I am so so scared of doing this although I have all the rights in the world

to do so. I am financially not dependent on him so this is not holding me back.

Of course this is the logical outcome when someone cheats for that long and moves out, what else did he expect ? File for D and get rid of this cheater and liar.

Also don't let him minimize a long time A as "a mistake", a mistake is when you unintentionally take the wrong exit on a highway, he DECIDED to cheat and have an A, he chose to lie to you THOUSANDS of times during his A, and another thing is just because you found out about it, doesn't mean it will stop or resume again in the future. Run for hills and don't look back, you deserve much better, someone with integrity who loves you and respects you.

Thank you so so much all of you for your replies and thoughts on my situation. One of the worst things he said is that it was partly also my fault because I neglected him and basically left him no chance but finding satisfaction on all levels with someone else. I know that this is bullshit but it still leaves me with nagging thoughts and an annoying sensation of self doubt and guilt, no matter how ridiculous that is. He is convinced (or so he thinks) that the fact that I discovered his betrayal should be treated as a “sign” and our chance for a new beginning. I am sure that right now he feels guilty and certainly ashamed and overcome by parental pressure which plays indeed a very big role in the society we live in. I believe that he is trying to use a return to me as a some sort of “purification system”, meaning that he wants to simply ignore what he did as if it never happened and feel “cleansed” through a return to his “sinfree, pure” former life. Which is a whole lot of crap obviously. He also said that if I didnt decide fast, we would grow even further apart by which he once again puts me in the role of the decision taker and the reason for our marriage being over if I refused to take him back. For the time being I told him

i dont want to be in touch at all and if that means that the gap between us will intensify so be it. I contacted a lawyer and a therapist and will hopefully gain some more clarity and

sort out my confusing emotions within the next couple of weeks/months. I kept what he did from my children as I do not eant to burden them with such a bad image of their father, not to protect him but only them. Two years guys and maybe even longer...I still cannot believe his cheap, weak and narcistic beaviour...

Please, do believe his behavior. Remind yourself that is who he is. Sure, people can change, but not much, not drastically. And of course, we all make mistakes, but what he did was not a mistake, it was a choice, over and over again, for a long period of time. When you make a mistake you try to correct it as soon as possible, not blame somebody else.

And blaming you for neglecting him, after he neglected you. Just NO!

Of course, you are scared, it's the fear of the unknown, but you will be OK, you are strong.

You will get through this.

Thank you bookworm, your advice is much appreciated. The fact that I am going through all of this amidst a different culture than my own is adding to my confusion, as I now have to listen to women (!) telling me “don’t let the other woman win, just take him back so that he wont have other children who will then equally entitled to your children’s inheritance” and ao on. Nothing is further from my beliefs than this, it is in fact shocking to listen to what I thought were modern women saying stuff like that. How can anyone consider to stay with a man just so that the other woman does not “win”. I even heear stuff like “you have to try so that you never have to feel guilty for not trying!” As if I was to blame if I l left him

for what he did to me and our children. Honestly, I am speechless. What about notions such as self worth and pride? And would I want my daughter to return to her husband if one day she would find herself, God forbid, in a situation similar to mine? Certainly not, because she’d deserve so much better. He called me this morning and admitted that he still has feelings for the other woman but that he is willing to “give it a try” as if we were speaking about a minor thing. He honestly thinks he can use a reunion with me and the kids to figure out his own screwed up emotional battlefield. You know, my children got used to the idea that mummy and daddy are not one item anymore (of course they are suffering bit at least the first shock has been overcome). Why on earth should I risk hurting them again by “giving it another try?” What if it doesnt? Then they will be hurt a lot more than the first time.

how dare he actually tell me that and sell himself as the remorseful guy who says he is ready for a new beginning and that I was weak if I didnt understand that “we all make mistakes”...:

So far he has strike one (and three strikes you are out!)

He believes “you are weak”. Hahahaha that’s a new one.

He is weak. His behavior is that of a coward and a liar and a weak person!!!

So far he has not done anything to warrant reconciliation.

Wow he is so far removed from reality. I’m sorry for you!

He's putting it all on you. Put it back on him... 1) tell him he did not make a mistake - he made a CHOICE. 2) "He still has feelings for the other woman"? You're nobody's second choice. Tell him you deserve a man that has those same feelings FOR YOU. Unfortunately cheaters have no ability to empathize - you need to spoon feed it to them - you are "just a wife" to him - not a person with feelings.

“Everybody makes mistakes”, “please help me to be a better man” and “we can fix it” is what I hear everyday now. He basically made the whole decision-making my responsibility now and told me “I am ready to try again, its up to you now”. He even dared to tell me I should think of our children

I'm all for attempting to reconcile when you have a WS who is remorseful. Unfortunately, you are not dealing with a man who is remorseful. His words and actions show you this. You would only be setting yourself up for more heartache if you stayed with him at this point.

He called me this morning and admitted that he still has feelings for the other woman but that he is willing to “give it a try” as if we were speaking about a minor thing. He honestly thinks he can use a reunion with me and the kids to figure out his own screwed up emotional battlefield.

Nope! Nope, nope, nope. It sounds like he might still be talking to her and if you try with him and it doesn't work out, he'll run right back to her and tell everyone it's all your fault. You will be right back where you are right now anyways. Your instincts are right to be very wary of what he's doing right now.

Please consider this:

Some cheaters only want to Reconcile because if the BS ends the marriage - they “lose”. They are ashamed they “lost” and were the one dumped.

So it is possible he wants to Reconcile only to save face. So his ego won’t be shattered because after all - he cannot accept the loss.

Losing you - that is insulting to him. It’s not “his” choice.

Be suspect of his words. Watch his actions .

One of the worst things he said is that it was partly also my fault because I neglected him and basically left him no chance but finding satisfaction on all levels with someone else. I know that this is bullshit but it still leaves me with nagging thoughts and an annoying sensation of self doubt and guilt, no matter how ridiculous that is.

Yes, deflection and gaslighting are weapons being used to increase your self doubt and to apportion blame (entirely, if you read it properly) on you. This adds to the cruelty and abuse already apparent in HIS complete neglect of his family. The sense of entitlement that he speaks with is the clue to his being a taker - that no matter what you did, or do, he presumably has always 'taken'. And his deflection now onto you is to press your buttons as an inveterate giver - you, the one as one who was giving the family all the support of two. I fear that he does not know how to give and if you zoom out on all of your relationship that character trait may come into clearer focus; even if there were courtship rituals of giving that may seem to muddy the waters, and perhaps early relationship more equitable division of tasks and responsibilities, it sounds like somewhere along the line, a selfish streak has begin to surface that has allowed him to speak and act in such appallingly entitled ways. It may be that he 'uses' cultural mores of male hegemony and entitlement from his cultural background to license his behaviour of neglect and abuse. The affair seems to be a symptom of a deeper dysfunction in him, the tip of an iceberg, and I'm so very glad you see that - his narcissism etc.

You deserve a marriage partner who will be exactly that - a partner. From what you have described, I doubt this man could ever be that. I'm very sorry.

You sound resilient and able to see through his gaslighting etc even if you wobble a little. The determination that has enabled you to do an MA and bring up your children almost single -handedly whilst he clubbed and womanised will stand you in good stead. Read everything you can from the Healing Library and keep checking in here with us - you're in good company.

[This message edited by Edie at 12:36 PM, March 11th (Monday)]