SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

But, also like I said, you have to be prepared for refusal. You obviously should not force her to perform that sexual act with you.

I'm pretty sure everyone is clear on that. Forcing it would be rape. However, making it clear that refusal means divorce is, I think, a completely reasonable (and in many cases necessary for the BH's sanity) course of action.

I don't dismiss personal emotions, I dismiss emotions portrayed by other people. I didn't marry my W because she said she loved me, I married her because I loved her. She had no ability to "lie to me" because it was me who was building the story. The dismissal that I do of emotions is when they are used to spur another to action. "I love you" from the AP to get in the panties being my personal pet peeve. Because then you're taking action based on another persons emotions, which you can NEVER know for sure. But taking action based on your own emotions, yeah, I do that.

Thank you for the response, Rideitout. I never grasped that refinement of your position before. It opens a whole other line of discussion, but that's a t/j and fodder for another day. It was a very personal question, and I appreciate you answering.

Absolutely, firenze. Just like I can refuse to ever again perform a sexual act that my fCH did with the OW. He is welcome to leave if he disagrees.

Striver, I didn't mean to imply that the sex isn't important. I sorry if I minimized your feelings. The sex my fCH had with the OW was important to me, too. She performed a sex act on him that he had told her I didn't do. She obviously did that deliberately. When I thought it was only an EA, I told my therapist that it would have been easier if it had just been sex. Then, I found out they did have sex. It wasn't easier.

No problem. I am sensitive to explanations provided by WS. Why WS did something is less important than damage to BS. WS typically need to do work to become sensitive to how they hurt BS, if they ever do the work at all.

In my case, sex was literally a non issue. It is not why the marriage ended at all. My pain comes from other places. I have been able to replace the sex and then some.

Sex was intimacy in the marriage for me. It was okay marriage sex, once a week. Ex did not like to do it when pregnant, which made for a couple of lean periods for me. I am a laid back guy when dealing with others, but that is the one place where I was insistent on certain things.

I am not RIO, I do not have a bunch of "bros" that regularly talk about conquests and complaints about their married sex lives. I don't talk to anyone about that crap IRL. It's private. A bit more with the GF.

The sex was replaced fairly easily. It's the rest - financial situations, stress in being single dad, loss of trust, loss of belief that a woman can love me for me. They all have exes in my age range, I am never going to stop believing that they'll go running back to some ex or past lover that made their heart go pitter pat when they were young.

But the sex, really that's the least of my worries.

So my question is what does this have to do with you being a man or woman being betrayed and being told that sex with the AP is better than with the BS...

I was devastated and destroyed when I was told that especially since she was half my age and never had a child. He apparently had ED with me but had no problem getting it up for her

FYI- TMI ”shot his rod the minute he penetrated her because she was soooo tight”

Now we all know that most of sex is 80% in our brain and that oxytocin’s connection makes it’s the best etc.

Which is why him telling me that really fucked me up and made me hate sex with him because of the constant comparison in my head. During HB We would start every thing okay and then something triggered me.. a laugh a caress a touch he’d never done before and I was running to the bathroom to throw up.

He later told me he just said those things in anger and it wasn’t true..., hahahaha not that stupid because we know there’s truth behind it.

So unless I misunderstood I wish we would stop assuming that there’s a different between a BH vs a BW. We equally feel the utter disgust at the fact they were fucking sucking and loving our FWS.

I can’t complete with a tight pussy like you guys can’t complete with a large cock. But I know that when you love someone it really doesn’t matter because we connect on a different level...it’s in our heads. But I have not felt that connection since DDay. It’s beyond traumatic and will never go away for all of us.

I apologize if I spoke out of turn and vulgar common language.

So my question is what does this have to do with you being a man or woman being betrayed and being told that sex with the AP is better than with the BS...

I really has nothing to do with being either a BH or a BW; it just often seems that way because of the things that each sex seems to value, on average, more than the other.

I was devastated and destroyed when I was told that especially since she was half my age and never had a child. He apparently had ED with me but had no problem getting it up for her

FYI- TMI ”shot his rod the minute he penetrated her because she was soooo tight”

And this is a great summary of the "plan A" stuff, can't get hard with me, can't make it 2 pumps with the AP.. It seems hard to talk through that and still come out of it feeling like plan A (sexually). And while that particular issue isn't a problem for me, the general thing that you're feeling there is. No desire for me (can't get hard), can't keep clothes on around AP (can't make it 30 seconds into sex before orgasm). And now take that issue and project it to someone who was starving for sex in their M and puts a very high value on sex generally (which may be you, no projection necessary, but that's also me and many of the BH's who post on this issue; high drive, high value placed on their sexuality with a partner who "can't get it up" for them but is who's "prematurely orgasming" with the AP.

Which is why him telling me that really fucked me up and made me hate sex with him because of the constant comparison in my head.

It hasn't made me hate sex, but I do totally understand where you're coming from. It's made sex less enjoyable than it used to be, that part is true for me. But it's not the constant comparison that really gets me, it's her actions that can (or can not) show me that I'm her first choice. Now I look for evidence that I'm the "first choice" all the time in bed, and before, I never did. I assumed "She just had ED issues" and accepted it. But, like you, it turns out those "ED issues" were entirely related to me, and not an actual difficulty with bloodflow or desire. Just desire for me.

He later told me he just said those things in anger and it wasn’t true..., hahahaha not that stupid because we know there’s truth behind it.

And this final one, yes, this is also a great description of how I feel. "We know there's truth behind it" is really the crux of it. Sure, you can tell me all day long the sex was "nothing special" and not the reason you were in the A. But, the "truth" tells something different. In your case, the erections and premature orgasms tell a very different story than "nothing special". And in my case, the sheer frequency and acts my W did in the A tell that same, very different, story.

While others disagree with me, I do think that this issue is unique between the sexes in a lot of respects. And, as much as it might surprise you, I think, if anything, a lot of this would be harder for women than men. Painting with a broad brush here, but "new sex" seems to range, for lots of women, between "awful" and "just OK". It seems to take a lot more time for women to get to the "happy place" sexually with another man than is typically afforded in an A. The same situation does not ring true to me for men; new sex has ranged from "great" to "OMG" for me in my dating life (and little of that has anything to do with the other woman, as you correctly said, it's in my mind) and I can't imagine that adding in the danger/taboo of an A would do anything but enhance that feeling. Short version, I am very skeptical of men saying "A sex was mediocre" because between knowing how "new sex" is for me and hearing stories from men I know who've cheated, "mediocre" is literally never something I've heard in reference to A sex.

I'm sorry you have this issue, and I'm also sorry that I (and others) seem to frame this as an exclusively male problem, it's not (obviously), it's a problem for anyone who places a high value on their individual sexuality. And that group includes both sexes, some parts of it are harder for men, some parts are harder for women, but they all suck.

I cried every time we had sex after dday, and we had a lot of HB. I can't remember if I went through a period when I was disgusted by the idea of having sex with him. I was certainly disgusted by him in general.

Gosh, I don't know if I ever asked him if the sex with OW was good or better than with me. She was almost 20 years younger than both of us. That really got to me. She wasn't more attractive than me. She was not my fCH's body type. He didn't see her and immediately think, "She's so freakin' hot! I want to fuck her!"

RIO, it seems maybe it's honesty that you are missing from your CW. You think she's lying about how the sex was for her? If she admitted that it was amazing, better than with you, would you be able to move past it? Or, would it be a dealbreaker?

So, if all EAs are just PAs that haven't been consummated yet, what's the point in wasting time on an EA. If all both parties want is sex, why wouldn't they just go straight for sex? At least one of them must've been getting something from the EA if that was necessary in order to convince them to have sex. By extension, wouldn't that mean that all Ms are just a means to sex?

Back to the OP, I don't see that the CP having sex with the OP means that the BP was sexual plan B. That would be like me thinking I am emotional, true love, plan B. My fCH opened up to the OW in a way he never had with me. He actually thought she was helping him with his M issues in the beginning. She was the friend he could talk to. He couldn't talk to me.

So, was I only there for sex or to produce offspring for him? Nothing more than a vessel for sex and babies? It wasn't for babies because he didn't care if we had any or not and didn't care if I cared for them or sent them to daycare. Actually, he would've preferred that I WOH and make money and let someone else raise our children.

That leaves sex. Am I nothing more than a bought and paid for, in-house, exclusive where? No, I'm not. I'm worth more than that.

Making a 2nd post because I write so much.

Wrt demanding specific sex acts, it depends also on how the CP feels about performing them with their BP. Would you want your CW to perform said sex act with solely because you demanded it even if she felt degraded and humiliated by it? Regardless of what she did with the OM, you don't know how she felt about it. Women have sex for many reasons other than just physical pleasure, and they are not all good.

Wrt demanding specific sex acts, it depends also on how the CP feels about performing them with their BP. Would you want your CW to perform said sex act with solely because you demanded it even if she felt degraded and humiliated by it? Regardless of what she did with the OM, you don't know how she felt about it. Women have sex for many reasons other than just physical pleasure, and they are not all good.

This used to be a big debate in the threads, and one that I can see a woman making. But, a couple of things:

-None of the BH's I have ever seen on here want this forcefully.

-It doesn't really matter why she did it, she did. That means that she was willing to do that to impress the AP. The person she should really be trying to impress is the H. It's interesting because I put things "off limits" with the AP because I didn't want him to expect those things, to set that up. But, I did them and still do occasionally with H. It's because I don't really super enjoy those things, why set up another relationship where someone might think it would be on the menu? If you are a grown woman, and can do it with the AP, then you can do it with H, I just can't buy into another theory at all.

-If you have an affair, then you must be willing to work with your BS on what hurts them the most. For men, they feel love through sex. Any relationship book talks about this at great length. You must put the effort into showing him he is your love. It's their love language (not all men but I would say a great majority) If you could show your "love" towards the AP that way, then as a WW you either should be prepared to lavish your husband, or face the fact he will not really feel desired or loved by you. Nail in the coffin for the marriage. You can decide whatever you want, but the plain facts are it's either show him how much you want him or you will have a husband who feels very unhappy, very unloved by your actions of having an affair. By not showing him anything to contradict that you are only rejecting him again over and over.

And, I think this would be true for women too. Honestly, if my husband was this stallion for some other woman and then it was 10pm Missionary sex before falling asleep by 10:30, I have to say I would be very, very sad. I would definitely feel like she had something I didn't. If he kissed her all over her body, and spent a lot of time giving her the "works" but basically gave me little in the way of foreplay? I think it would eventually end up in divorce court for me too. Because it would be reliving a rejection on such a frequent basis, that I don't think I could take it.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:26 AM, March 18th (Monday)]

This is an interesting thread for sure. We all prioritize our "needs/wants" in a relationship differently. Unfortunately, when a couple do not openly communicate their priories to each other, and expect the other one to "read their mind" and become angry and resentful...well, it's a recipe for disaster. I've heard it said that in a relationship it's not about what we want, our focus should be on the needs of our partner. If our partners needs are fulfilled, there is a GREAT chance that ours will also be fulfilled in the doing of such. Of course this isn't always true, and it takes a lot to get there.

I think when we begin to process our relationship in terms of "wow, I'm not getting X from my SO, and I so deserve/need/want it" and that becomes our focus,...that's a BIG problem. At that point it should be "so what is my SO not getting from me?" How many of us think like that?

Oh, I absolutely could have sex with another man without emotional feelings for him, so men who see that as how I feel about them, ooops. I feel bad for those who use that as a barometer. Who I commit my life to, that's who I care about...who I would lay down my life for, who I sacrificed my time, my energy, my career for? That's who I care about. Who I had sex with last night? Not so much. For me it's not the sex outside of M that is the dealbreaker, it's the promise to keep it inside the M that is the dealbreaker. Maybe that's because sex is not a great connector for me. AND because feeling the way I do about sex, I've kept my part of the bargain..dammit.

As far as sex being the one thing you can't get outside M? Well if you are getting other forms of intimacy outside the M...that's a barometer that things aren't going well.

Let's get our heads wrapped around this "sex with the AP was better than with me" perspective. It's an affair!! There will never be that thrill of elicit sex, doing something wrong, sneaking around, AND I'll bet you that if SO left your relationship to be with the AP it's a ticking time bomb until (and you will never hear it) sex just isn't that great anymore. It's the nature of the beast! Second and third marriages have greater fail rates than first marriages...something about the grass is always greener on the other side? It's just faulty thinking.

My WH did sex acts with his APs (plural) that he never asked for or showed any interest in in our relationship. Do I feel special now??? haha...no. Do I feel like I am "less than" the AP's, no. If in my R my WH demanded those things during sex I would slap his face and walk out, permanently...I understand that I am the BS which makes it different. BUT, I do feel very cheated, because honestly, if he had asked, and asked in a sexy (but not demanding) way? I"d be up for it, and pretty turned on. Now...not so much, he has ruined it for me, but more importantly he has ruined it for himself! He was selfish to the point of narcissism, his IC told him that in first session...he is trying to change, and for the most part, he is, I think.

Wow Hikingout. You know I usually like your posts, but this one is just a "mic dropper". Like "drop the mic, walk off stage" because it doesn't get any better than that. You've captured in far fewer words exactly the thing that I feel and would say in a way that seems a lot less offensive than I usually come off.

If he kissed her all over her body, and spent a lot of time giving her the "works" but basically gave me little in the way of foreplay? I think it would eventually end up in divorce court for me too. Because it would be reliving a rejection on such a frequent basis, that I don't think I could take it.

So, let's extend this a bit and try to make this entirely the scenario that's often presented as the "WW reason" why this might happen. What if you're H said, after his A, "Yes, I went down on her for hours each time, kissed her whole body and she had lots of orgasms". And then, adds to that "But going down on a woman makes me feel bad about myself, so, even though it's the best/easiest way for you to orgasm, I don't want to do it with you". Because that's the scenario that's often presented, WW did all the "good stuff" with the OM, but "didn't really want to" or "didn't enjoy it" and therefore, it makes sense to not do that in the M relationship. How would you feel about it then? Would you think he's lying (he doesn't want to do it because he's not as attracted to me, he doesn't like my taste, thinks I'm not worth it) or would you believe him that "I did it all the time in the A, but didn't like it"?

Sorry, don't mean to call you out, just wanted to get your perspective on this particular point.

I think when we begin to process our relationship in terms of "wow, I'm not getting X from my SO, and I so deserve/need/want it" and that becomes our focus,...that's a BIG problem. At that point it should be "so what is my SO not getting from me?" How many of us think like that?

I had this argument at one point in time. I think from a BW perspective, your argument is very true...your husband should have communicated his wants and needs and not had an affair.

I think the problem is these men who are trying to process this...their pain is the fact that their wife showed the AP enthusiasm they don't show them. So, by asking for it, it negates it even further. They see it as she WANTED to do these things because she loved him more/wanted to impress him more/was hotter for him...What they want to see is there is effort given to them.

And, honestly rightly so. My husband took care of me for decades, he devoted his life to me. Does he not deserve to be lavished more than the AP? He does. The AP should not have been in the picture at all.

So, let's play this out. Let's say (this is not true for us) that I gave him sex once or twice a week. It was pretty good sex, but not a lot of variance and kind of a means to an end type sex. Now, I turned around and it's all I wanted from AP. I could not get enough. Don't you think that translates to my husband that I preferred this other person. If we are to reconcile, how is he ever going to believe that I really prefer him?(And by the way I do) By going back to the way things were before?

It just doesn't work that way at all. By feeding into the idea that this is now a normal marital relationship, I would be divorced today. This is not a normal marital relationship (as you know), this is one where my H has been rejected in an area that likely means the most to him. The only way to take the sting out of the rejection is not to make him ask for all this, it's to show him that it's ME who wants it.

I think it sounds like to me that your wound is just different. What you need made up for you is just not the same, but I would purpose that every BS has something. BH's tend for it to be the need to be their wife's highest and best sexual partner.

If you look at statistics you will see that the percentage of betrayed men who reconcile successfully is lower than betrayed women. I think it's because people miss this as a primary need for men and they want to disregard it's validity. I also think it's because more women have exit affairs then men. The largest majority of cheating men are cake-eaters.

Would you think he's lying (he doesn't want to do it because he's not as attracted to me, he doesn't like my taste, thinks I'm not worth it) or would you believe him that "I did it all the time in the A, but didn't like it"?

Sorry, don't mean to call you out, just wanted to get your perspective on this particular point.

I think prior to the affair I would not think that. I would think that was his preference.

After the A, I would think it had to do with me. The trauma/rejection of the affair would be lived out if he didn't do that for me. And, asking him would further the humiliation. I would want to inspire it in him.

But, I would never have understood that had I not been here. It would not have occurred to me on my own, and it's not something H expressed to me. As I have been here longer and heard this as the normal reaction men have, I realized that I needed to be the aggressor more, the one who brought something new and inspired. I have been talking to H more about this in recent months, it wasn't a discussion early on but we really are to a point where we are now trying to work on the marriage and he confirms this line of thinking to me.

I don't believe it's the only thing that has to happen to save the marriage. But, by being aware of it, it's one thing that doesn't have to be a bigger issue. It's probably only 10 or 15% if it's happening but it becomes 90% if it's not. I think that's what gets missed when people try and argue against it. It's reliving the rejection and trauma on a regular basis.

ETA -RIO - I know I encourage you to talk to your wife regardless. I know why you don't do it, but the reality of it is that I am not some unicorn, this type of "healing" would never have occurred to me. I would have missed it if you all hadn't told me. My H is a beneficiary of that, and would never have told me. He would have suffered in silence. I know that for a fact, and that's why I am always telling you she needs to know.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:03 AM, March 18th (Monday)]

If you look at statistics you will see that the percentage of betrayed men who reconcile successfully is lower than betrayed women. I think it's because people miss this as a primary need for men and they want to disregard it's validity. I also think it's because more women have exit affairs then men. The largest majority of cheating men are cake-eaters.

I agree with you. Frankly, I think the message that general society gives to cheating women is amazingly toxic. It's like "Mad Men" turned on it's head, he cheats, his fault; she cheats, his fault has become a pretty persistent message in society. NOT this site, thankfully! But the message that most people have about cheating women is an immediate "what did he do" to make you "have to do that"??

And the same message extends to this issue. A woman demanding a post-nup is an injured person trying to make sense of their new life together and establish boundaries that allow them to stay in the marriage. Where a guy who wants to have anal sex with his WW (where she did it with the AP) is an immature guy who needs to concentrate on the pain and stop watching so much porn. Sorry, but all I can say to that is "WTF?!". And it's not the posters here who are really guilty of this, it's just how our society works today, it's a 180 from the "old days" where "boys will be boys" and sleep around (also a toxic message, but the opposite one). Neither one is right, a cheating wife wasn't "pushed to it" and wasn't "taken advantage of" and a cheating man isn't "forced to it because of his penis".

If you take the thing that a lot of men (and some women) need to heal from an A and make it verboten, is it any surprise that a lot of men choose to pull the plug? If you want a postnup, you'll get plenty of support, but if you want good sex, well, grow up, it's not that important. Sorry, but it IS that important to me, and if that's not a reasonable expectation in R (as the general narrative seems to indicate), especially when that exact sex was provided to the AP.. Well, guess what? I think that leaves a lot of men with no choice other than to D. Because the thing they (or I, if you prefer) need to heal is the very thing that isn't on offer in R, or should not/cannot be made a condition of R.

Wrt demanding specific sex acts, it depends also on how the CP feels about performing them with their BP. Would you want your CW to perform said sex act with solely because you demanded it even if she felt degraded and humiliated by it? Regardless of what she did with the OM, you don't know how she felt about it. Women have sex for many reasons other than just physical pleasure, and they are not all good.

HikingOut was pretty much spot on with her reply, but I'll add my 2 cents.

If she did it for him, willingly over and over and over and over but didn't want to do it for me bc she felt degraded, but said she'd take one for the team and do it anyway with me, I'd tell her to F off and serve her with D papers.

If she doesn't WANT to do it with me, regardless if she's willing or not, she's not an R candidate for me. I don't need a pity blow, nor do I need a martyr for a W.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 9:18 AM, March 18th (Monday)]

Okay, looks like I am going to extend my threadjack, so please ignore if you don’t want to hear an old guy rant about “Be heals the BS” bs

So it was pointed out that the BS has to make the choice to heal themselves. And AMEN to that. They do, no dispute at all.

But let’s get to the real point – while they can choose to take the steps to heal, healing itself is not done in a vacuum. You don’t just will yourself out of trauma.

Let me throw an anecdote into the mix relevant to many a case of betrayeds on this board. Let’s say the BS really does want to heal, but for whatever reason divorce is absolutely off the table. Whether it is a religious belief or circumstance – divorce is not going to be considered. (Before you go off and say that if no-divorce-whatsoever is the choice, it is not a healing choice – we do not disagree. But nevertheless – it is a fact.)

Welp, you know where this is going. The cheating spouse uses that refusal to divorce to torture the betrayed. They continue their abuse and cheating. They gaslight. They blameshift. They do crazy-ass things like issue ultimatums such as “We have to get divorced if I can’t have my “friend.”

Tell me how the BS is going to really heal themselves in that situation?

Let’s throw another anecdote at you. A betrayed wants to heal, and they seek out counseling. The counselor is all about blaming the betrayed because he didn’t make his cheating wife feel special. The BH is told to do the pick me dance to make the marriage better. Do you think that will lead to healing?

How about the newly betrayed really wants to heal, reads a ton of books, gets all the right therapy, engages with the wayward but the cheating wife’s affair partner is always present. Even after the BH and WW move away, the AP is always posting on social media about love for the WW and how special their time was together. Always sending gifts. Always find new ways around the no contact request. Always letting the BH know in some way how great the sex was with the BH’s cheating wife. Do you think there will be much healing there?

I get that in every circumstance the BH could have divorced, gotten another counselor, or magically made the AP disappear. But for whatever reason – they did not happen. And it is not an unfamiliar theme on this board. Either due to ignorance or simply the cost of action is perceived by the betrayed as greater than the cost of inaction (due to children, jobs, whatever), circumstances make healing not possible.

So the fact remains, the betrayed cannot just magically heal themselves. Yes, they have to want it. But make NO mistake about it – options have to be available to get the evil of infidelity out of their system. You are not just going to somehow will yourself out of trauma.

And for anyone who thinks that all people can just do that – spend a little time reading about the various forms of PTSD. If you could just will that away, or just read a book and be cured, I am pretty sure people would.

Well I’m going to have to disagree on this point.

I agree with you. Frankly, I think the message that general society gives to cheating women is amazingly toxic. It's like "Mad Men" turned on it's head, he cheats, his fault; she cheats, his fault has become a pretty persistent message in society. NOT this site, thankfully! But the message that most people have about cheating women is an immediate "what did he do" to make you "have to do that"??

We know that the first thing that people say when we find out a husband has been cheating is that “ his wife must not been giving him what he wants she he went elsewhere”

This cliche is outrageous because from most of the BW here many had healthy sex lives. In our particular chase he had already had 2 EAs and sex was diminishing and I was the one initiating and asking to talk to a marriage counselor to discuss our issues and his ED. He flatly refused.

As a parent I focused on our child and figured he just needed space- which is what he said.

So I don’t think this is a clear cut mad men scenarios that divide the sexes. I do think women that cheat often are looking for exit affairs vs men just want to fuck something.

Which is adding to that statistics of R.

And this might be a one sided statement too.. but I think wayward women who Really want to R are more dedicated to this task than men. Unless she’s a narcissistic person which then regardless of sex in terms of recovery.

Just my observations

My therapy? I kicked her out and said no the 6 or 7 times she begged and cried to come back.

A hundred Amens, brother. My "therapy" was cutting the cancer that was my ex-WW from my life, excising her presence as cleanly as any surgeon removes a tumor. Getting clear margins on the removal. And I completely nuked her AP's life. I couldn't have burned him more thoroughly to the ground without committing multiple felonies. And you know what? I feel great about it all. I now live on the opposite coast of the US, I've been promoted, I'm moving up in the Navy, and I'm seeing the woman I dated a few times before I left VA. She PCS'd out here a few months ago to as she put it, "see if there's anything in the cards for CDR NoLongerLost and me".

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 11:39 AM, March 18th (Monday)]

We know that the first thing that people say when we find out a husband has been cheating is that “ his wife must not been giving him what he wants she he went elsewhere”

This cliche is outrageous because from most of the BW here many had healthy sex lives. In our particular chase he had already had 2 EAs and sex was diminishing and I was the one initiating and asking to talk to a marriage counselor to discuss our issues and his ED. He flatly refused.

I agree with you, and you provide a good example of it. Yes, that's something that society thinks, but, in my eyes, the "she's not taking care of business at home" is almost always said with a "snark" attached to it "and her husband is an immature ass who can't keep it in his pants". So, yes, the W is sometimes blamed, but it's still the man's fault for being a sex seeking asshole. :) And I agree with the latter, it IS his fault!

But you can see my point play out all over the place, even here, on this board you see it. "The WW was just desperate for validation and would do anything sexual the OM wanted to get it". How does that sound to you? Like the WW was the victim? Because that's said, even here, a lot. And almost never said for cheating men "Poor guy just wanted to get his knob polished and was desperate for it". Nope, not said, rightfully so, because that's just as outrageous.

Look, most of the posters here don't do this; they assign blame where it belongs, and for that I'm very thankful. But, if you'd like to see the "typical message" just type "my wife cheated" into Google (which I did after d-day) and read the top hits. Most of them will make it your (the man's) fault. I know because I read the first 100 or so top Google hits and came away feeling like "wow, this is really my fault". It was only when I found SI that I started to realize it wasn't me, but the message we push here isn't the "norm" anymore.

I do think women that cheat often are looking for exit affairs vs men just want to fuck something.

No doubt. The statistics on this could not be clearer, in fact, they are so overwhelming it's kind of surprising how significant the divide is. But, in general, men cheat for more (sex, usually, but not always) and women cheat to replace. And this certainly impacts the R statistics, men are often not at all emotionally invested in their AP and can easily, as another poster offered, cut out the cancer and move on. Where with women there's often a more systemic issue, they don't love you (the BH) anymore, they love the AP more, or they just don't know what they want. But the speed and viciousness I've seen men use it dropping an AP would certainly have made R easier for me if my W had done it.

I've heard it said that in love, we're all capitalists, basically meaning that everything's a transaction.

Men give emotional support and romance in trade for sex.

Women give sex in trade for emotional support and romance.

Seems overly simplistic - but maybe there's a grain of truth in it.