SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is my first real post. I have been an avid reader for the past three and a half months. I thank you all for the wisdom and understanding.

My question deals with the creation of the timeline. I am a BH whose WW had an affair that spanned two months. I have been asking for a timeline since December, and so far my wife has written a timeline that details only the first few meetings with her AP. She has essentially put in about an hour's worth of work on the timeline, documenting a few of about 30 meetings. Since then, she has not revisited it in weeks.

She knows the timeline is important to me and my recovery but seems unwilling to buckle down and create the timeline in a reasonable time frame. I feel like it may be a year or so before I get the timeline at this rate.

She has been doing work in other areas. Both of us are in IC and MC. We are committed to rebuilding a better marriage, and for the most part, our marriage looks as though it will become stronger than it was pre-affair.

We have had many discussions about the A, and I know most of the details. It's just not all in writing, and when she writes about it, the picture is clearer for me.

How long did it take for you all to have "complete" timelines?

Unfortunately when in this very raw period, we try to make sense out of something that isn't logical.

That being said, as the most vulnerable person here - you - without having all the information you need, all you can do is imagine the worst. She, most likely is embarrassed, ashamed, and doesn't want you to go through more pain than necessary.

It's a tough position for you. It sounds like she doesn't totally understand that by you not knowing, that your imagination allows you to go into a deeper level of pain and betrayal as you try to make sense out of it on your own.

Maybe you can communicate this in your MC?

Hi fatheroftwo,

I'm nearing 4 years out and still dont have a detailed timeline. My WW put together 2 "timelines" that I was impressed with. The 1st one could have been done in 3 minutes. The 2nd was a little more detailed but I still was not happy with.

Now, she is putting the work in. At about the 3 year post dday mark, she really invested in IC and now understands the importance. She has been spending time on it over the last 5 weeks and should see it soon.

What would I have done differently? I would have pushed her to do this sooner, and when I got one, I would have explained this isn't what I'm looking for, and just maintained this position until I got the detail I wanted.

I understand it is very hard for my WW to write all these details down for me to read. It's not that there is any new information, but she hates reliving the A's. I think she is embarrassed and has a lot of shame as a result of her actions (not only A-related).

I would tell your WW that this is important to you and her lack of action speaks to the importance she is putting on it.

I'm sorry to say it's been over two years for me and while 'timelines' have been written, I still don't have anything close to what I'd call an actual timeline. If the first one he wrote was to be believed my husband was little more than a victim of sexual assault (spoiler - he wasn't!).

Writing a timeline makes him feel bad. He doesn't want to do things that make him feel bad like deal with the aftereffects of his devastating actions. As you can probably guess our relationship is not going well.

I hope your wife manages to see past whatever is blocking her so she can focus on doing the work that will help you.

If it's important to you she needs to know that it is, but I don't think a complete written timeline is a necessity to a good R. I have a rough timeline and plenty of details. Is it in a written form or complete? No. Do I think I know "everything" that I need to know, I do. And yeah it's a lot gleaned through lots of questions and communication.

Is she open with your questions? Looking up her digital past on her phone? Sounds like it if you feel you know most details... and some details you may not want to know.

If there's no apparent secrecy here it just may be she needs to know you want it written and maybe at this point you could create it together. But if not she could be hiding some details that may hurt you. 30 meetings in 2 months is a lot. my WS had only 4 in a longer period (and it checked out). Also, if it was long ago that the A took place some forgetfulness of details is possible.

Some of this process is seeing how deep the betrayal is/awful the lies were. (so that night with the girls you went and f'ed him... while I was visiting my sick grandmother you guys f'ed) As said before, this is hard for the WW to confront, how awful they could lie to you especially if your R is going well. Sounds like you have a good baseline of communication, finding out her reasons for resisting and your reason for wanting it at this point should help you get what you need.

My W started working for R on d-day and never stopped, but if I expected her to do a timeline on her own, I'd still be waiting.

I suggest you sit down with your WS and work together on the TL. Start with what she's got, ask questions, take notes, add to the TL, get feedback, repeat until you're satisfied - or until it's clear she just won't come clean.

I didn't have a detailed written timeline - granted I never requested one either and my WH's A lasted 18 months so it would be long and frankly impossible if I wanted him to write down every contact they had. Sigh.

That being said, I got a pretty detailed timeline a few nights after d-day2 - the process took about 10 hours (no joke) of my WH just talking, me asking questions, and filling in what I wanted to know. In the last 6 months since then I have asked additional questions, but I don't have many about the timeline now (none I can think of at all right now actually), but I didn't want specific details.

I think a blow by blow timeline is difficult to do and the longer in the past it is and the longer the A went on the more difficult it would be to recreate, especially if there was a lot of contact. I can see on here where there was a ONS or a 1 month affair where there were 3 or 4 meetings that happened in the last several months it should be pretty easy to recreate a timeline that covers most everything. Longer in the past and/or more/longer contact would be difficult.

THAT BEING SAID, a rough timeline shouldn't be too hard and you should already have that. If you're looking for specific details it could take longer (I would not be good at that). My WH can tell me that the phone calls started in 5/17, it became physical about 2-3 weeks later in 6/17, they met 2 or 3 times a week on most weeks but not when his daughter was visiting, they spoke roughly everyday for between 1 to 3 hours per day etc. He cannot remember if he was with her when I called on my birthday in 2017 and we had an argument. He cannot remember if he talked to her when we were at his friend's wedding in the fall of 2017 when I saw him on the phone when he went outside (he says he does not think so as he only spoke to her twice that he can remember when I was anywhere in the vicinity but he can't be sure now), etc.

I never was able to get a detailed timeline from my WS, I had to piece it together from CC bills and facts his mOW was more than willing to give me to protect herself. My WS acted like a defiant child for over a year, and he "forgot" details that his mOW remembered. He could have given me a timeline but he didn't want to, just more excuses from him. I have confronted him with everything I was able to find on my own and his reactions showed me more about his character flaws

I gave up on the timeline. He never took it seriously.

I was in the same situation you were in and you’re getting great advice here. Let me just add two things.

First, you’re not out of line to demand a timeline. A piece of your life has been taken away from you and you deserve to understand what was happening to you. Stay firm and consistent. This was a nonnegotiable item for me.

Second, this was really rough on my ww. Although I feel a little guilty knowing a small piece of me wanted a timeline just to inflict a little pain on her, a larger piece wanted to see if she would actually go through with it. This is part of “owning it” and I needed to see if she was serious about a possible reconciliation. With this in mind, we decided to do most of this in front of a therapist. Just so you know, this took almost 3 sessions to work through for us but it was worth it. It set the tone for the months to come.

Hope this helps.

17 months out from Dday1 and still don't have it despite my begging

WH reluctantly gives up some information when I discover hidden facts , which have been as recent as yesterday and he still denies , despite the obvious proof

Sometimes I am frustrated because he has for instance admitted meeting his AP multiple times in a certain city that was once our special place , but since I only had proof of one, needed to know the others. I knew times he was there and asked him, was it then ? Or then...claimed he didn't remember , but recently just got a confession on two of them.

I don't understand the logic of not being truthful at this point...it is just prolonging my pain

She's not doing it,because she knows you're not going anywhere. I would imagine that's why most waywards dont do the things their BS asks of them. They know what you want,know what is expected of them,but if they keep putting it off,you will stop bringing it up, except maybe every so often. They will put it off indefinitely, as evident by most of the responses.

Tell her you want it done in X amount of time, and if it's not done(and it wont be because she wont believe you), then *this* is the consequences. Maybe she can sleep on the couch until it's done. Or you stop mc. Or do a hard 180. Or,see an attorney.

Think of it like this..you tell your teenager to clean his room. He doesnt. You tell him again. He doesnt. He is going to put it off until you threaten to take his phone away. Then he cleans his room.

Teenagers and waywards have the same maturity, quite often,it seems.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:34 PM, April 4th (Thursday)]

I am a WW.

@fatheroftwo: Thank you for this topic. I am in the same camp as your wife. I also know that I need to finish a timeline that is acceptable for BH and I have not. I have done 3 timelines, the first one was so full of blameshifting and victimizing myself it is disgusting. The second one wasn't much better. The 3rd one, well I "shared" it with my BH in that I shared the document with him but never discussed it. And I am working on another one now. To be honest, I am dragging my feet on it because I don't know what else to write. My BH said he wants to see that I have learned something. I'm not sure how to do that in a timeline.

@Jameson1977: Thank you for this perspective, I know this is how my BH feels and I know that me notfinishing it is unacceptable.

For those of you who have been betrayed what are you looking for in a timeline? Outside of this happened, then that happened, a list of facts or dates.

our marriage looks as though it will become stronger than it was pre-affair

I am assuming your dday was only a couple of months ago? Be careful reaching this conclusion so quickly. If she hasn’t given you what you asked for (detailed timeline), this is frankly an inaccurate statement to make at this time.

I suggest you sit down with your WS and work together on the TL. Start with what she's got, ask questions, take notes, add to the TL, get feedback, repeat until you're satisfied - or until it's clear she just won't come clean.

This is not what I did, but I agree with sisoon's advice.

I basically wrote the timeline myself. Unfortunately, I had three years of crap to unravel. It took a couple of weeks, but I got it done. I managed to gather quite a bit of evidence and then stitched the rest together with some rather painful discussions from my wife.

It really sucks to have to do this, but it helped me a lot. Sorry you have to go through this.

[This message edited by HardenMyHeart at 8:04 PM, April 4th (Thursday)]

It took a year for my H to finally put one together. By that point he had acknowledged that there was much more "emotion" involved in his EA and PAs than the "it was a game" bullshit he was spreading early on. As he put it, he was ready to " surrender" to me, which meant that he was ready to give it all up, stop minimizing, stop trying to massage the facts to look better than they were.

But it took a lot of fights and screaming and threats that I would not accept things as they were....too many threats, but hey, this shit isn't clean or easy.

My point is she will do it when she's truly found her way out of the self-protective, liars mindset that most cheaters hide behind. When YOUR healing is more important to her than her self protection. Only she can choose to be at that place. Your wayward still hasn't broken through to full honesty with herself. If she can't be honest with herself, she surely can't be honest with you.

[This message edited by psychmom at 8:12 AM, April 5th (Friday)]

I had to get into detective mode and went Sergeant Friday on her. I got out my notepad and started asking questions...'Just the Facts, Ma'am'. With multiple APs spanning the course of 25 years, it was easier if I took the emotion out of it and just recorded the facts of what happened with who and when. Some of it had to be refined further with more questions, but once it was on paper, we could agree on what actually happened and not something that I made up.

It is not a perfect process by any means. The timeline that we agreed on is backed up by a polygraph because I had a hard time believing some of the 'facts'. All worthwhile to me as I have a detailed timeline from each of her affairs. Hope you can get what you are looking for.

I was late to SI (like 15 months after Dday late), so I did not even fathom how much a timeline would help.

After reading about the concept of a timeline on SI, I told my fWW that I needed a detailed timeline and although it took her some time (Like a month), she did finally deliver. She must have decided to just get it over with and literally stayed up all night writing it and also writing answers to questions I had.

She provided just enough detail to let me know I had the story, but not too much in the way of feelings and sex details. I refined my understanding of those details through questions later while discussing what she had written.

It helped me immensely, because as other posters have said, usually what you imagine is far worse than reality.

Maybe your wife feels that she has given you everythng through questions and doesn't understand how much a complete timeline will help you?

I agree with nortonj that MC may be a good place to put her on the spot.

Thank you all for your input and suggestions. I think that I will talk to my wife about co-editing the document and see what she says.

I agree with the statements suggesting my wife has not fully come to terms within herself with what she has done. I know that there is shame and guilt associated with what she has done, and now that she is out of "the fog," there is deep embarrassment.

What I need first is to know the "modus operandi" as I have heard it referred to. I need to know the extent of the affair and what it meant.

My current list is as follows:

1. Places and times

2. Other people who were present

3. What was done

4. What was shared about me, our family, and herself.

5. What lies and arrangements took place

6. Exchanges that took place - such as gifts and money.

Once I have a clear picture of the what, when, where, and how, I think that I will be able to better come to terms with the real questions: What were you doing? What were you hoping for? How deep does this affair go? What did the affair mean to you?

As others have said, I need to know the extent before I can be honest with myself about any kind of true forgiveness or ability to have full faith in moving forward.

When we have our conversations, although the subject matter is difficult, and it is a challenge to keep emotions in check to allow the conversation to flow, I think we both gain a sense of understanding, clarity, and connection from the revelations. My hope is that through a written timeline, I can have the affair detailed in a manner that satisfies me enough to say to myself, "Okay. There it is. Now I know as much as I will ever need or want to know. I can move on from here."

[This message edited by fatheroftwo at 10:11 AM, April 5th (Friday)]

Not to tj, but MySunandStars, I asked my WW for a fairly detailed summary of her A's and inappropriate relationships.

My WW had 1 ONS (before M), an EA/PA (physical once), another EA (around the same time as the EA/PA) and a relationship with a Male friend that was inappropriate (it was a one sided relationship, she wanted more, he didnt).

So, this spans 15 or so years. What I had asked for was details of what was discussed, how they made her feel (at the time), what she was feeling (excitement, guilt, etc.), any relevant interactions, etc. Basically, she had a secret life for periods of our relationship and I want to be in the know. I dont want her to have any secrets, with respect to the A's and inappropriate relationships.

My WW is finally making progŕess in IC and becoming a stronger and better person. She suffers from clinical depression and very low self worth. Ironically, all these men used her and she let them because she felt she was getting something from them. The only constant supporter of her over this time was me. I wasn't the best husband, but I would do anything for her and I was loyal and committed.

So, what do I want, a window into her other life. Not just sex details (I got those, and yes that was difficult), more emotions.