SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Cant understand why you're on Surviving Infidelity

When you're clearly ok with your wife having sex with another man or men ???

I wouldn't keep a FRIEND that lied to me to half the degree she did to you. You'll end either having an open marriage, you'll remain a cuckold or back here again.

I can promise you'll never have what would be considered a safe and normal marriage.

I can promise you'll never have what would be considered a safe and normal marriage.

Really!?! You 'promise' him!?!

No wonder he's gone. I don't blame him one bit, if that's the level of sympathy and sensitivity he's getting accorded here.

Odds are so infinitesimal that I'll stick with that statement.

You don’t find it aggressive?

I’m speechless. This dude is delusional. I apologise for being so blunt but I don’t think you’ve realised what’s happened. You may be in shock. Or you may subconsciously like men fucking your wife as long as you know about it. You’re more hurt that she didn’t share this with you than because she shared her body with other men. If you want an open marriage, all the power to you. I’m not sure what you want from us but seeking perspective is something you don’t want. Again, if you’re fine with what she has done (you have no anger and maybe that will come in time and it probably will) who are we to argue with you or convince you otherwise? Good luck. We are here to help but I suspect your case is unique in a way because a lot of the things you have discribed and how you’ve reacted thus far does go against the grain.

[This message edited by Mene at 7:47 PM, April 30th (Tuesday)]

Yoyob:

One thing I can bring up though is from a conversation with the second guy. He was trying to convince my wife to meet for sex. Since "she was already cheating". And the response was something like "I live in a happy marriage and never thought I'd stray, ever. But then this happened. But that doesn't make it right for me to do it again, or makes me want to do it again. You may think I'm crazy but that's how I feel. So it'll never happen without "him"

Man, that really is reassuring. She won't fuck the threesome guy without her affair partner present.

She really is faithful. To her affair partner.

I wish we could help you, but I think the only thing that will help is time and your wife revealing herself again and again until you can't convince yourself that living like this is okay.

You give an example of her declaring loyalty to her boyfriend by saying she won't fuck threesome guy without her boyfriend bc shes not a cheater a good thing?

IMO there is at times a double standard in how people respond to betrayed wives versus betrayed husbands. Perhaps people are trying to right a situation where they feel they let their wives walk all over them by picking up their pitchforks to chase the other wayward wives out of town. I don't know.

In any case, you are hurting, and why wouldn't you be? You understand human nature and that, yes, any of us could or would cheat if the fates conspired against us and we didn't have good boundaries in place. You see that a happy reconciliation suits you better than an unhappy marriage or a divorce. That seems very rational to me.

This is a marathon, and not a sprint. In my experience, I saw things very clearly in the beginning, what I wanted, how it had happened, what it said about my husband. But what I couldn't see my way through was the emotional processing. That will take time, lots of it. You will grieve the marriage you had and could have had. You will be angry. But you are a multifaceted, grown human being and you have the capability to forgive. If that is your goal and your wife is on board with repairing the damage she has caused and becoming a more empathetic, mature person, then I believe you can get there.

Perhaps try posting in Reconciliation and, fingers crossed, not as much negativity will follow you there.

Rugsweeping badge: Unlocked.

There's no reason to be hard on him. People come to this forum because they want to save their marriages. Because they are hopeful. If the WS gives them hope, by reassurances, then they immediately clasp it and are grateful to the WS for that. They won't scrutinize their WS's actions or words looking for signs of continued cheating or trickle truth. It takes a while for them to stop being desperate to save the marriage and look at things with a magnifying glass.

It's just been a month from D-day. He's still in shock and he's not trying to scrutinize everything about his WW's affair. As of now, he is glad that his wife is telling him what he wants to hear. Small mercies in what is otherwise an enormous shitshow.

If you can't post respectfully and constructively, please step away from this thread.

Lots of folks piling on here because the OP's posts don't match what they think should be an appropriate response to this situation. I understand that as I feel the same way but Yoyob did post originally with some problems that he wanted to talk about so let's focus there.

There are a few things we definatly have to work on. One is the "why". I don't think she knows why. He, the head of the company, was seeing her work and being supportive. She was pretty new at the job and of course the attention and affirmaition was a good thing, exciting. And then the small talks over the coffee machine turned to lunches, still mostly concerning work. And then the flirting began. And.. yeah. My biggest concern might actually be how she could justify sleeping with him a second time. The first time I kind of can understand. But not the second. And then not the lies for the rest of the year.

For this I think you have a slight misconception here that this is work for "we". This is for your WW to uncover for herself most likely with the help of a counselor. I think it is appropriate for you to insist that she work on this and I think you need to hear from her what she thinks is her "why" and call her out if that answer veers into blaming you but this is not your job. If you work on this with her she will let you take the lead and most likely agree with whatever you come up with that sounds reasonable and that you are accepting of. This won't help you feel safe going forward. The "why" here needs to come from within her and be prepared because it might come down to something that you can't do anything about and will cause her to cheat again in the future.

The other thing I think I'll have a very hard time getting over (I actually don't think I ever can) is how she acted and did a lot of things during the year that I kind of miss with us. The flirty texts. The "I can't wait". Sending a picture in under wear. The text after saying "that was exactly was I was needing". All these things are things that I've been wanting her to say/do to me, but she never did. And most of the things she knew I wanted. Her defence here is that this can't really happen in a "real" relationship where you always can have what you want. That it's pretty much only a game, the texts and the flirting. But for me it's for real. I have those longings for her. I try to tell her what I want. And all that. And here we are. She did it with someone else. The things they did that we too have done during the year, those things are soooo much easier to get over, I feel. The sex. The conversations. I know we've had those, too. More and probably better. So even if I obviously hate that part too, it's something I'm confident I can learn to live with, eventually.

For some people the sexual side of things are something they can't ever get over. For you it is the emotional side. (For me it was both TBH) This is something that the two of you can work on together. I think first you need to understand how deep this emotional connection was to the OM. It sounds like your WW was more emotionally connected to him than he was to her and likely now is still missing that emotional connection. I am sure this is hard to get over. I think though it is something that you can get over with time and consistent repetition of affection. Have you spoken to her about how you need this emotional support right now? I think it will feel forced at first and you may actually resent it in the beginning but I would tell her what you need, give her examples and tell her you need this to be a part of your life going forward. You've identified here something that will help you I think and she should be all over it.

[This message edited by beenthereinco at 12:06 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]

I just want to echo beenthereinco on the emotional side of things. I get the part where you want her to send you the flirty texts, the lingerie photos, the “I can’t wait” messages. But it appears your WW does not seem to believe that those types of interactions can exist in a long term mundane relationship with a partner. She seems to believe that the flirty stuff and sexually suggestive innuendo can only work in the fantasy excitement of an A, not the every day drudgery of a M. I don’t know how you will convince her otherwise given her mindset. But perhaps IC could be of assistance.

I would wreck that boss and every aspect of his life in every way possible within the law. Her AP shared his wife in a threeway with another man... I can't even begin to relate to the OP and his seeming acceptance of this. My advice is just get out, Sir. As fast as you can and as far away from her as you can get.

[This message edited by LtCdrLost at 2:08 PM, May 3rd (Friday)]

Threesomes?

No. uh uh...no way. That is beyond the pale. No coming back from that.

You need to divorce her. Sorry man, she's not worth the fight.

Yoyob

I saw your post some time ago and had hoped to answer sooner. I fear we might have driven you off but on the off-chance you still read here then I’m posting this in the hope of offering you some help and solace…

Although the internet is a global phenomenon then admittedly the majority of posters on SI are from the USA with a good scattering of Britons, Australians and other English-speaking countries and cultures. We might even have a preconception that Swedes are all liberal blondes that drive Volvo’s, eat meatballs, arrange flat-pack furniture and sing along to Abba while having communal sex. That might be reflected in the advice offered here.

However; there are some things to keep in mind:

People are the same globally as far as emotions and reactions are concerned. There is little if any difference in Scandinavian pain, American pain, African pain or Australian pain.

Not all Swedes have Volvo’s and eat meatballs. Some have Saabs and eat rotten herring…

Infidelity is infidelity. The same concepts apply internationally.

If you were as OK and nonchalant about the infidelity and as secure about the affair as you seem to pretend to be then you wouldn’t have posted here. You wouldn’t have googled for help.

Furthermore, you are not the first Swede to join our club. Might not be enough of you to create a separate si.se, but I recall at least two other Swedes, a Dane and an expat in Iceland that I have had some part in guiding with PM’s and posts to get out of infidelity. The two other Swedes split evenly: one divorced and the other reconciled. The guy in Iceland divorced (WW exit affair) and I think the Dane reconciled (so long ago).

I think one of the biggest mistakes a poster can make when sharing on SI is to think HIS infidelity is different and unique. That what we share won’t apply because you are different, your wife is different, and your relationship is different… OK – It’s undeniably YOUR life and YOUR relationship. But there are trends and tendencies and behaviors that we can quite accurately predict.

One final preamble: There are few if any definite constants in human interaction and behavior. We/I can tell you about trends and tendencies and maybe give you odds, but I can probably never tell you that I am 100% correct in my estimations. What I post below will be a number of statements and comments that will hopefully line up in the end…

OK… So, let’s start….

Infidelity is fantasy. It’s not real. It is a relatively rare instance where the OP is the true love or the white knight. This is reflected in a couple of things: Relationships founded in infidelity seldom last more than 2 years, even if the partners divorce and start a new life together. The success rate is significantly lower than “normal” relationships. It’s also reflected in how easily AP plan to drop the affair. Like your WW and OM: Hey – people might notice. Let’s quit. That was easy…

What is the best way to end a fantasy?

Make it reality! Make the participants realize that the white knight shining suit smells of sweat and piss. That the unicorn is a donkey with a cone taped to its head. Make them realize that when they are free to do what they talk about doing then it’s maybe not what they really want!

There are a couple of ways of doing this with the MOST effective. WAY WAY WAY MOST effective one being exposure.

OK – So lets look a bit into that:

Your wife entered an affair. Why?

This hot manager showed her interest. She felt validation. If you are lucky she progressed into having sex. It wasn’t the first time he said hi or dropped his pants. If you are lucky then he showed her attention, small touches, confided… and led her on. She felt validation and power that this great influential man that could choose any woman selected HER. She probably gave reason for him to progress… She should have removed her hand, she should have asked him not to place his hand on her shoulder… she had plenty of chances of NOT letting this develop.

But only if you are lucky…

The other option is that SHE simply dropped to her knees the moment he asked her to. No build-up. If that’s the case your WW is in a worse shape than you think…

So, let’s hope you are lucky… Lets HOPE this is the “standard” type of workplace affair that progresses – usually from an assertive and determined OM that finds a weakness and progresses on that weakness.

They quit because they were afraid someone would find out…

Oh boy… Sven my Swede… The office knows… THEY know… OK – so maybe not Benny in bookkeeping who doesn’t bother with office-gossip, but Agnetha in marketing and Frida in sales have been talking about it and maybe even told Bjorn (who is dating Frida). There are people that know…

Plus finding a third person to participate… That does not indicate a strong desire to be discreet. I’m not so hung-up on the threesome issue. What a couple decide to do in a MARRIAGE is their contract. If you and W are OK with something like that then fine, whatever rocks your boat. But keep in mind she cheated with HIM and the THIRD participant. She cheated on YOU.

Why did OM end the affair? Because he KNOWS business etiquette heavily frowns on interoffice infidelity. A manager with a subordinate is extremely big on the no-no list. I don’t know how it is in Sweden but in most countries, this is a big sexual discrimination threat. A meetoo moment…

I am a manager in a +800 IT company. I manage a mixed unit of men and women and it is VERY clear that if I develop an emotional connection to one of my staff I am required to let my supervisor know. In my organization there have been (over the years) a couple of womanizing managers. They are seldom fired, but their career tends to stall… and they move on… They don’t last here.

Have you ever gone out and gotten pissed drunk, maybe hit on a few too many ladies, said something inappropriate, maybe even driven home a bit too drunk? Woken up with a heavy hangover and promised yourself NEVER to do that again? Yet maybe half a year or a year later you are downing the Absolute and heading for the bar?

That is the threat of your present situation.

Your wife has the hangover. She plans of it being over with OM. Right NOW, she might have NO intention whatsoever of being with OM again…

If he’s one of the typical womanizing middle-managers that I have encountered, then (a) she’s not the first and (b) she’s not the last. Probably has someone new already. Or maybe had another on the side while doing your WW and his W. Maybe even a couple of Estonian hookers on his expense account filed away as “research assistance”.

But… he is probably/possibly 100% ready to have another romp with your wife.

Be it at the office party, the conference, the chance meeting in the car-park…. Whatever.

Your WW “decision” to not sleep with him again is solely based on her determination as it is now. Just like your decision to never drink so heavily again in the above example is solely based on the hangover you have NOW.

It’s a bit like having a wasp in your room. A wasp that has already stung you once. Even if you know it’s sitting all quiet on the window-ledge you will feel uneasy and unsafe UNTIL you have ensured it’s out of your room.

That is when YOU want to have done your very best to increase the chances that (a) it won’t happen and (b) she says no.

Burst the fantasy.

Expose.

This is what I would strongly suggest you do:

Talk to the HR manager OR the GM of her place of employment:

“My wife had an affair with Ole (or whatever his name is). I have heard that this is not the first workplace affair he has had [No need to be completely truthful here… make it worse for him if possible, you are simply stating something you have heard – not sating this as fact]. I think my wife felt pressured into this affair by Ole and although I hold her fully accountable and won’t minimize her participation the I feel THIS company need to know what their managers are doing. My wife did not break any company policy, but this affair places her in a difficult position. A MANAGER that can impact her career, wages, promotions… made sexual advances to her and used his position of power to entice her to a sexual relationship and now that it’s over he can use his position and power to get rid of her. I expect the company to do something about this. I expect this NOT to impact her career, but I demand Ole is never in a position to interact with my wife on office-time”.

Follow the conversation with an e-mail so you have an accountable trace of the communications.

Do not tell your WW you are doing this. Just do this and see the reaction. How she learns about it and how she confronts you will tell you a lot.

Regarding your wife:

Sven my Swede: Have you ever crossed a room carrying an egg in your hand? No problem. You simply hold the egg and walk. But what if I placed the egg on a teaspoon, blindfolded you and we placed a million-dollar bet on you making it across a tennis-court full of obstacles with an intact egg?

That would make you more careful wouldn’t it?

When your WW comes home and tells you she had an affair you can’t handle it like crossing a room with an egg. You can’t say “well… OK… but never do that again!”.

You need to treat it like you and WW need to cross that tennis-court full of obstacles with a heavy price for failure. Success is NOT a given. It’s a goal. Your wife needs a message along these lines:

“Wife. I have had an epiphany. I have realized that although I love you and want this marriage to work then there is one thing IMMENSELY worse than losing you. I actually lost you the moment you DECIDED to cheat with Ole. What is worse is SHARING you.

I refuse to share.

If you want this marriage you need to show me and prove to me that you want me and me alone.

I’m not afraid of divorce. We can be great co-parents if we divorce and I would rather just finish the pain of divorce now rather than go through the pain of discovering another affair or that you are still seeing Ole.

You are totally free to be with Ole or anyone else. But not as my wife. If you are not committed to this marriage, then PLEASE just let me know so I can move on. But if you stay there are certain conditions I need met and things you need to do.

You need to get to the bottom of what made you DECIDE that having an affair was OK.

You need to give me assurances that it’s over.

We need to work hard at reconciling, and that starts with you helping me understand and accept what you did and me feeling safe again.

Or you simply tell me you can’t do all that and we can move on our separate ways.”

To save your marriage you need to be ready to walk away.

++++++++++++++++

Edited to add:

I’m not clear from your posts if OM is the owner or top-chief of the company or has a manager or board he has to answer to.

If he’s the top-manager and is not accessible through a board or HR department your wife needs to leave that job NOW. You could use union-pressure or threats of a sexual discrimination case to ensure your WW gets a golden-parachute and a glowing reference, but it is of 100% importance to remove the wasp from your lives.

This is of utmost importance.

[This message edited by Bigger at 6:08 AM, May 15th (Wednesday)]

Bigger - what a post!

I'm sorry you are hurting so much. Please start with honesty. Your wife must always be honest with you. Every minute. This goes a long way to heal your hurt. You decide things together. Then no bad feelings in the future.

Bigger is wise. Please consider your path seriously and carefully. You matter and she should help you however she can.

Please read in our healing library when you have time.

inappropriate reply

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:51 PM, June 3rd (Monday)]