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Get yourself tested for sexually transmitted disease ASAP. Neither you nor she know who else BIG BOSS AP was sleeping with, nor the third man. She risked your health with no thought to it.

Your second post seems quite defensive. I’m not sure what it is you feel you need to defend but it is curious, and often the ‘thing’ that provokes that kind of defensive reaction is the ‘thing’ that needs some attention and investigation.

It really is an opportunity to learn more about yourself. Your wife too. Clearly spotted by BIG BOSS predator as some kind of easy meat, easy prey who was willing to be sexually used by him for a year. For her, in a new position, it may have been like the stereotypical casting couch, and she may have advanced further in her work by selling her sexual favours. Selling is the operative word here, I’m afraid. He has seriously abused his position of authority, she has traded her body for... well, that remains the question for her to find out. Excitement, adventure, titillation, thrill of being pursued are all currently being suggested by her as ‘reasons’. They, however, are byproducts to some extent. If she is however, suffering from the ennui of a ‘real’ relationship, which we all understand, then it’s what you put into that relationship that counts. It sounds like she may not be putting that much in, and you are commenting on that deficit as you perceive it.

Of course, as relatively young parents, she was maybe also feeling that she needed to be more than just a mother. Parenthood can make the relationship very child-centred and focused where the parents experience each other as co-parent and housemate and not much else. That’s where date night, flirty messages during the day, weekends away together or whatever else one might do becomes strategically necessary to remember why you got together in the first place. It doesn’t magically happen, it needs attention, focus, work.

Perhaps she just got lazy. Perhaps she’s deeply insecure. Perhaps selfish. Deceitful certainly. None of these are attributes you want in a life partner. But they might be able to be changed, if she is willing. Currently you have not reported on any remorse from her.

I suggest you stop being so complacent about your relationship and use this as a wake-up call to your life. You only get one after all.

[This message edited by Edie at 3:24 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]

I read all replys and, again, I'm very greatful for the time and effort you put in.

I feel I need to make one thing clear.

I've had my fair share of rough things in life. And the last month has been, by far, the worst month of my life. I didn't really think I could feel this bad. So for everyone saying I'm ok with what she did, I'm not ok. Not ok with any part of it. It's a totally fucked up behavior.

I obvisously know a lot of things that I haven't been able to get through here. Since I can follow their communication pretty much from day one (they texted a lot more then they spoke on the phone or IRL), there's not that much anyone could hide, even if they wanted. So quite a few things I KNOW. As much as anyone can ever know anything. I can even understand how a few things could happen. But definatly not most of it.

And I have a very big problem with things like "once a ... always a ..." Unfortunatly life isn't that easy most of the time. I can even use myself as an example, I once cheated on an old GF. The relationship was almost over, but we still clinged on to it in some ways, maybe her more then me. And then I had a very short "affair". Before this I was sure it would never happen to me. And after it.. Well. Now I know that the chances it will happen again is much less then it was when I was so sure it would never happen. Do you follow? I learned from it. It was shit. I felt shit. Not when I was in the midst of it. But when I actually thought about it. But since I was sure I'd never cheat, and still did. What did I learn? I learned that you can never, ever know. You have to live the the risk of it happening. To you or by you. And you know what? That's just how life is, there's always risks. You want to be safe? Well, try live in a box with woolen pillows all around. That sure is safer then being out in the streets.

But what I really wanted to say is that I don't think it came through how much I've been hurt by this. And I've always live with it. And even so, I still just might think this is still the woman of my life.

I also get that you can have different views about almost anything. One is that you can count an affair like this like a thousand lies and deceits. Or you can count is as one. I'm more in favor of the latter. It's a hell of a big lie and deception, but I see it as one.

And for the rest of the post saying she's obvisously done this more since she is that kind of person. Well, you may be right. I may be right. We will probably never know and agree. One thing I can bring up though is from a conversation with the second guy. He was trying to convince my wife to meet for sex. Since "she was already cheating". And the response was something like "I live in a happy marriage and never thought I'd stray, ever. But then this happened. But that doesn't make it right for me to do it again, or makes me want to do it again. You may think I'm crazy but that's how I feel. So it'll never happen without "him"". I'm not sure it come across quite as it was since I translated it, but still. And this is to a guy she's already had sex with, so it's not that she didn't "liked" him. Ah, well. Again. I read what you write and I found very useful bits here and there.

What did surprise me though, was the attitude some people here have. I read about this being a safe zone. A place for support. And even if you mean well, it really doesn't come across in every post..

[This message edited by Yoyob at 4:10 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]

I’m sorry you’re hurting.

Regarding the range and diversity of posts and opinion, take what you need and disregard what you don’t.

😊

What did surprise me though, was the attitude some people here have. I read about this being a safe zone. A place for support. And even if you mean well, it really doesn't come across in every post..

Keep in mind that it is almost impossible for people to not project their experiences when offering input or advice. Remember, most here have suffered some trauma from some pretty deeply selfish and unremorseful cheaters. Even PTSD for many. It is difficult to be 100% objective with advice from that experience, but it doesn't necessarily make the difficult to read advice unsafe. So filter what you read knowing that all mean well, but all have some level of pain informing their opinions.

As for opinion, I am curious as to what yours is when you consider some of the rational and objective advice you have received from some. What can you take from the great wealth of experience here that will help you? Do you acknowledge you have a broken wife problem more than a marriage problem. Are you willing to hold her accountable for owning that unsafe level of selfish and fixing it with professional help?

What is her consequence and what do you need her to do to feel safe? What would her genuine remorse and empathy look like to you?

Keep in mind that it is almost impossible for people to not project their experiences when offering input or advice. Remember, most here have suffered some trauma from some pretty deeply selfish and unremorseful cheaters. Even PTSD for many. It is difficult to be 100% objective with advice from that experience, but it doesn't necessarily make the difficult to read advice unsafe. So filter what you read knowing that all mean well, but all have some level of pain informing their opinions.

Thank you. That makes sense.

As for opinion, I am curious as to what yours is when you consider some of the rational and objective advice you have received from some. What can you take from the great wealth of experience here that will help you? Do you acknowledge you have a broken wife problem more than a marriage problem. Are you willing to hold her accountable for owning that unsafe level of selfish and fixing it with professional help?

What is her consequence and what do you need her to do to feel safe? What would her genuine remorse and empathy look like to you?

I think the most important thing is to figure out how she could end up doing this when she, as most people, thought it would never happen. And for me it's not so much about being sure it doesn't happen again. But as for both of us to understand why. What is the driving force behind doing this to someone you love, or claim to love? And no, I don't think it's as easy as saying "selfishness". That's maybe one way of describing it, but I'm pretty sure it's not about that. Again, I think it's a way to oversimplify. People aren't "good" or "evil". People may do good things and bad things. People aren't "cheaters" or "faithfuls". People may cheat or be faithful. And I'm definatly not there yet, to understand the "why" and "how could you do that".

I also haven't said that much about her reaction afterwards. Before she even knew I had the whole conversation she answered everything right away. How long, how often, when and all. And since she can't even remember what she wrote a year ago (I can't even remember stuff I did last month.. :) ) it's not that she only says what she knows I can confirm and lie about the rest. That much I'm sure of. She's been both remourseful and tries to show that she's willing to do what I want her to do to make this work. She takes my pain for real and I'm pretty sure she's in quite some pain too, not only from what she says but from what I see. Yes, that could be from just being exposed, but I think it's more from the fact that it somehow didn't occur to her, for real, how much this behaviour could hurt me. One other thing she said that I'm not really sure how to read, is that she was so sure I'd never find out and that she was/is so "good" at putting her head in the sand that she could live with the betrayal herself. I've seen this behavior before from her and is another thing she needs to figure out, preferably through some sort of conseling..

Yoyob, something to consider, just because you've read the texts and things seem to line up doesn't mean that you have all the facts.

They work with each other for crying out loud, and thus there's quite a bit of facts that you know NOTHING about as it was verbal communication between the two of them (not documented in texts).

Also, I understand that you're hurt by the lies, but it appears you have no problem with your wife screwing other men. If this is the case, let your wife know this (that you have no problem with her screwing other men but you just want her to keep you in the loop).

Look up the word Hotwife as well once you've done this.

Also, I understand that you're hurt by the lies, but it appears you have no problem with your wife screwing other men. If this is the case, let your wife know this (that you have no problem with her screwing other men but you just want her to keep you in the loop).

*sigh* I have never said I'm ok with that. I said that some of those things I'm pretty sure I could get over. That is two *very* different things.

[This message edited by Yoyob at 6:41 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]

Anyway.. I'll try to keep away from this place for a while now and consider some of the things you say. I'll try to be back and let you know how things are comming along. Although I'm not sure quite a lot of you will believe me if I say things are going in the right direction. Not that I'm sure they will..

My man

Your WW carried on a frequent sexual A with her boss for a year minimum. She freely participated in at least 1 threesome with two guys. She has shown you what she is all about. And you are right we do not know your WW like you do. But you didn't know your WW also during her A did you. She didn't confess due to guilt or remorse, no sir. She was caught out by you.

She is still working with the two guys that spit roasted her...seriously dude how can that be?

Your comparing cheating from when you dated other women to what she did. Not even close brother. Your WW has faced absolutely zero consequences for what she did & you seem to be ok with that.

WE are 70,000+ strong who have seen your maneuvers played out ten fold with the vast majority ending up badly for the BS.

We are not telling you what to do we are just letting you know your heading down a one way street the wrong way.

If you can become comfortable with an open marriage then you and your wife need to discuss that.

If you take the time to read through these thousands of posts you are going to see everything from reconciliation to a fast divorce. Many men are able to get over the “invasion” of their wives bodies and many can’t. It is such an individual thing. Although women feel much the same it is the lying that seems to erode the marriage.

No one wants you to divorce. We do want you to grieve and not ignore what happened. Two people did you an injury. One of those you had a covenant with. You have to work all that out emotionally before you can move on.

Your wife had affairs because she wanted to and because they were fun. It takes a while to let that percolate. Take your time.

I also get that you can have different views about almost anything. One is that you can count an affair like this like a thousand lies and deceits. Or you can count is as one. I'm more in favor of the latter. It's a hell of a big lie and deception, but I see it as one.

Dude, an affair requires a mountain of lies in order to occur. From the early flirtations to planning for the meet to covering up after the fact to continuing the affair. It's more about the lies and betrayal than the actual sex. To try to boil that down to what you say, counting it as one lie is setting you up for a huge crash. Odds are, the lies continue. I don't care what your therapist and wife are telling you. The one constant with cheaters is that they lie, and they lie often. You're more than welcome to bury your head in the sand. That's certainly your prerogative.

And for the rest of the post saying she's obvisously done this more since she is that kind of person. Well, you may be right. I may be right. We will probably never know and agree. One thing I can bring up though is from a conversation with the second guy. He was trying to convince my wife to meet for sex. Since "she was already cheating". And the response was something like "I live in a happy marriage and never thought I'd stray, ever. But then this happened. But that doesn't make it right for me to do it again, or makes me want to do it again. You may think I'm crazy but that's how I feel. So it'll never happen without "him"". I'm not sure it come across quite as it was since I translated it, but still. And this is to a guy she's already had sex with, so it's not that she didn't "liked" him. Ah, well. Again. I read what you write and I found very useful bits here and there.

It doesn't matter if it happens again with guy #2. Clearly, she wanted to try two guys in bed, and she agreed to let him be one of the people to put his cock inside her. If she rejected him individually, it was more than likely because she wasn't attracted to him, or he was a lousy lay. So, the comfort you're taking in this is really denial, and not comfort.

What did surprise me though, was the attitude some people here have. I read about this being a safe zone. A place for support. And even if you mean well, it really doesn't come across in every post..

Safe zone doesn't mean people are just going to tell you what you want to hear. Safe zone means you're going to hear people with extensive experience in this area trying to help you and prepare you for what's to come by opening your eyes, and giving you the tools to protect yourself. If you can't accept that, just embrace being a cuckold and have dinner ready for your wife when she's done.

[This message edited by Fbtjax at 8:43 AM, April 30th (Tuesday)]

You cheating on your girlfriend years ago in no way compares to what your wife has done to you. You two are not cut from the same cloth. Is there a chance she's learned her lesson and won't cheat on you again? Possibly. But the odds are stacked against you, and you must accept that you simply don't know your wife the way you thought you did.

I think you should stop with the marriage counseling for now, because it's not your marriage that's the problem. Your wife has the problem and she needs to fix it. You both should be going to separate individual counseling. You should be working on figuring out what you need from her in order to rebuild trust and feel she is a safe partner for you again, while she should be working on figuring out why she betrayed you this way and how she can be a better person.

If you want to reconcile with your wife, you have to do it the right way or this will continue to eat away at you.

The things that you are doing wrong can be summarised in three points.

- Going for an MC before she has worked through her issues in IC (at least for a few months).

- She is still working at the same place.

- You are smoking hopium. Almost every new BH here tells how the MC thinks they are the best candidates for R ever, only to come back a year later complaining how the WS has effectively manipulated them into rugsweeping things. R means accepting the reality of uncertainty and still working through. Hope for the worst. You might end up with something less worse, since the best has already been taken away with the A.

Look for ACTIONS and not words from your wife. Actions that show she is gutted by what has been lost in your marriage by her

A. Typically the greatest loss is the certainty about the future and the innocence/sanctity/specialness of the past. It is beyond just your pain. It is about what you've lost together as a couple and as a family.

I'll have to agree with the OP regarding the tone by some of the posters here. Nobody here can claim to have done everything perfectly on the face of this trauma and betrayal by the one you trust the most. There's almost this weird pressure on the male BS here to act in a certain "manly" way and any deviation from this course is taken as a betrayal to the Man Tribe and the mocking tone posts start.

Not saying that the OP is doing everything right. In fact I don't think he's doing anything right. But everyone has their own journey and the goal should be to help these victims and guide them to the right course. The cruel posts just drives the traumatized away.

Not saying that the OP is doing everything right. In fact I don't think he's doing anything right. But everyone has their own journey and the goal should be to help these victims and guide them to the right course. The cruel posts just drives the traumatized away.

Yes, he said he was going because of that.

Yoyob,

It often appears like the majority of people posting here are quite harsh in their response to something as devastating as has happened to you. Some of the reasons for that have already been shared with you but I think it is important for you to filter out and get what you need from the site.

On the flip side, there are a number of stories here about people who reconciled successfully. That seems to be what you desire, if possible. And there are a number of people here who have proven that this is not only possible but an outcome that you can strive for and be truly successful with. I think that despite people here posting harshly everyone wants the best for you. And there are people here who, knowing you want to reconcile, hope that it is successful for you and your wife. I am one of those people but I am certainly not alone.

A lot of people in your thread have also told you that true reconciliation where the marriage actually recovers takes a lot of work and effort. Many describe it as the first marriage ends and you have to work to create a new marriage. I think that may be less of the case after a ONS but in your circumstance, with a one-year long affair, it may really take the recreation of your marriage to succeed.

It is clear that some people here have misinterpreted what you have written either because they look at everything through their own set of experiences or because, perhaps, you did not explain everything you were thinking and feeling up front. But push those things aside and look for the sound principles which are articulated so well here in the tools in the healing library and in many experienced people's posts.

Some of these principles include: avoid any type of rug sweeping at all costs--- which holds both of you accountable for real and valuable changes that need to occur to protect the marriage in the future, establish NC and full transparency of communication, seek out thorough individual therapy for both the WS and the BS (usually before investing in a lot of MC), make sure the WS understands what it takes to heal you and is willing to do the work on both herself and you, avoid jumping straight to reconciliation until some of the hard work has been done.

Despite what is a devastating experience of a year-long affair it does seem like there are a few rays of sunshine. These include the fact that your wife confessed quickly, the fact that the messages you have read show no signs of this being an exit affair, the A ended on its own and that you have stated she seems to be showing remorse. You can and should take hope from these signals.

At the same time you are taking Hope from those signals though, you would be wise to follow the principles of true reconciliation mentioned above. Trust but verify. Be hopeful but also be realistic. We are seeing the hope in your words and that is a good thing. We are also seeing pieces of realism as well. Even though I hope you could reconcile, if that is your desire, I still have some concern based upon how you have represented what is happening. Some of my concerns are similar to others who have posted earlier. They include not seeing a lot of description about your wife's possible remorse. Not seeing NC, in any way, being established. The feeling like your wife has not been fully held accountable. The possibility that you are jumping too quickly into reconciliation and MC without some of the fundamental work being done first, particularly by your wife.

I know that some of these things are under way and it is impossible to share all of the details with us. But there is still a sense that you are not working the fundamentals that will lead to True success. Take NC as an example. If she doesn't establish no contact then you will possibly be triggered every single time she goes to work. Just when you think you are feeling better something will happen with how she dresses in the morning and she will go off to work and you will be wondering is she taking a long lunch with the boss again.

I hope you can see how that one principle of NC is designed not to punish her but to hold her accountable, to protect your marriage moving forward, and to protect you. BS who are triggered consistently is essentially universal in infidelity. And you are setting yourself up to be triggered consistently in a never-ending pattern unless something changes. We all realize that quitting a job as a middle manager can have a significant impact economically. But not addressing the frequent contact with her boss is asking for a failed reconciliation.

And this connects to some of the people telling you to see a lawyer. Because her AP is the senior executive in the company there may be legal options for her to leave the job and be compensated for the disruption in her earnings. A lawyer won't force you to do that but talking to one would give you insight, information and understanding of your options.

I feel for you and really hope you get through this. I want you to be successful with reconciliation if that is what you really want. But to do that, it is wise to consider the well-worn path that is described so well here in the healing Library and hopefully adopt a few more of the key steps than you are now. Skipping over them will not help you, it will not help your wife, and it will not help your children grow up with parents who are in a strong loving marriage. There is a lot at stake and I know you are making progress locally, which is excellent.

Please also consider some of the more experienced and thoughtful voices here (most far better than mine) as good and well-intentioned counsel on this most difficult Journey.

There are two ways out of infidelity: Reconciliation or Divorce

R is about the WS rebuilding trust. I agree with you that the world is not black and white. But there are tendencies. The odds of cheating will depend on the personality and on the situation. You WW will need to do the work, and it’s very hard work to change oneself, to convince you that it will never happen again.

I wrote this in another post, with a bit of humour:

I don’t view the world in black and white, a cheater or faithful, but rather like a scale, like this:

Faithful scale:

10 <- the world ended and you are the only survivor along with 10 members of the opposite sex. You stay faithful to your dead spouse, humanity ends

9

8

7 <- you cheat once because something is broken in you. You do the work and never do it again

6

5 <- you cheat because of "bad marriage" or because "he doesn’t pay enough attention"

4

3 <- you’re a serial cheater, there’s no hope

2

1 <- you cheat with a 1 week dead corpse because " they forecast rain tomorrow"

So where is your WW now and what is she going to do to be a, say 8?

You WW "loves her husband" but also had a fantasy life with another man. Something is broken that needs fixing if you are to consider R.

Also:

Get tested for STD

Consider doing a DNA test on your children

Listen, nobody here is wanting to add to your pain. People are trying to help you and isn't that why you came here?

You say that you're in a "happy" marriage?

Maybe your definition of "happy" is different than most people, but by your account, your wife had sex with this OM at least one time per week over the last yr (that's FIFTY-TWO times). People who are in "happy" marriages don't do this.

Sorry you don't think this place is safe. If a fireman yelled at you while you were in a fire (where to go/what to do) in order for you to be safe would you get bent out of shape about his tone or would you be grateful that he was trying to help you get to a safe place?

Do what you're going to do, but one thing you NEED to do is to go get tested ASAP for STD. You said, "we've had more and better sex". You may not like my tone, but you talk about being safe, this OM who was with your wife sexually every week for the last year more than likely wasn't using protection and exposing you to anything he's come in contact with. The threesome partner use protection? Probably not.

It also would behoove you to stick around, because your journey with all of this has just started and if you get advice here (and you will) which can help you get to where you're wanting to get to that my friend is a blessing.

You know when you get in trouble in life (when you let pride get in your way) and think you're the smartest person in the room. If there's comments you don't like (or seem harsh) before you get defensive maybe you might really give it some thought to see if the wisdom helps your situation? If it doesn't discard it and don't use it but know that every bit of the advice has been used by others here on SI.

Again I am EXTREMELY sorry you find yourself in this shitty ass situation. It's one big cluster fuck of emotions and will be for a long ass time. People are reaching their hand down into the hole to help pull you out and get you (and your wife if she's willing) to safety. Don't slap their hand away but you have free volition to do whatever you want to do.

And, I'm pretty sure it was her idea in the first place. That part I'm totally cool with. The only thing I'm not cool with is that we didn't talk about it before and the lies around it. But not the threesome itself.

Yoyob

This sounds like a complaint you see in an officially open marriage.

Sorry that you're getting hit harder than you expected 'Yoyob'. Some of us have forceful opinions. After reading your posts, I hope your wife someday realizes what a great guy she has. That would go a long way to her maintaining her fidelity for you. You seem to have a plan and you seem to know what you're dealing with so I support your decision to move forward with her. I hope that your years ahead are better than your previous ones and that your marriage grows strong through this. Take care of yourself and your family and never forget that you are the prize. You are the only person you need to have a happy and fulfilling life. I wish the best for you and your kids.