SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm pretty sure I've posted a similar topic before but today I'm really struggling. I'm 3 years post-Dday. Husband had EA/PA with COW complete with ILYs (about 4 months), but has since been faithful (as far as I know).

Anyway the point of this post is that I miss intimacy and love-making. I've gotten to the point where I can really only engage in sex if I'm intoxicated because the mind movies are paralyzing otherwise. However, it's just sex and even if it's technically good it never feels satisfying.

I feel we haven't made love in years and I really miss that. Idk if that's something I could ever have with anybody else as WH is the only man I've ever been with.

So my question, or perhaps it's more of a musing, is can a couple ever really make love after an A? Or are the ghosts of the AP always going to be with us and the best we can hope for is sex and getting off? As I've said in my other posts, the issue seems to stem from the fact that we were each others only partners before this. Now that bond is gone. I don't feel special anymore.

After 3 years is it time to accept defeat and recognize that the best I'm going to get is sex without a real connection?

You can make love again .. but first you have to invest in your partner, recall what you love about him how he made you feel .. go on dates , and touch each other a simple hug sets the endorphins off , talking to each other , set cells phones aside and communication will happen ,cuddling , holding hands We are so afraid to let our guard down, because of our fear of being hurt in the future . The reality is we don’t know the future we only have this moment. communication builds intimacy. as intimacy builds the love will build ,

you know when it is sex and when it is lovemaking.

If the mind movies are the problem, have you seen this thread?

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=574286&AP=1&HL=

I agree that you have to invest in your H, but he has to invest in you, too. Is he fully on-board?

For me it's trust.

DH and I communicate just fine. I'm vulnerable with my emotions, and so is he. We snuggle on the couch as often as we can. We go out on lunch time dates. We hold hands. We hug. We stay very connected through the day.

We have quite an enviable partnership except for one thing.

He killed the trust.

My husband lied to me after I asked him not to, and told him, infact that he would be risking me saying "I'm done."

And now, after two DDays, there is no making me think that *this time* it will be different.

Actually, now, I assume my husband is a liar. Because that's what he's shown me for 18 out of 23 years. I think it's time I believe him.

And, he knows this.

I can do both. How is your intimacy away from sex? Do you hold hands? Do you cuddle without sex? Do you spend quality time together? Do you give each other hugs for no reason or kiss each other hello and good bye?

I ask these things because imo they help build intimacy on a daily basis. Maybe you could try slowing things down when you’re having sex, even if you are intoxicated. Or have you tried just a glass of wine so you’re not drunk, but maybe just feeling a little “loose.” Maybe start with just slower sex and build your way back to making love again?

Have you talked to your WH about how you feel? Have you told him what you are going through? Sometimes it helps too, to just talk about the struggle, and once it’s verbalized, it’s not as hard to overcome.

To echo dancin-gal and Thissucks5678, I believe we are having real intimacy, and not just physical sex. In some ways, there is a stronger connection during sex than there was before DD. Sex before was good, but at times it had lapsed into just a physical act, where I might’ve been more concerned with how long I was going to last or when I could climax. Sex now is very intimate.

I think this is because of the intimacy we have when we’re not having sex. Hand holding, cuddling, lots of touching. Beyond the physical stuff, we talk openly. No more holding onto something that is bothering me, or stopping to passive aggressiveness. We say what’s on our minds, and discuss it.

I’m so new to this that this could be a stage, and I could be right back to rock bottom next week. I don’t think that’s going to happen though, if we both keep communicating and acting in the way, and continue to work at it. The goal is to not get comfortable and start slacking.

Complicated answer for this...

I think after the initial HB period I would say that we have love making 1 out of 5 times we are intimate. I think my fWH feels like it's love making every time but I struggle tremendously with pain and memories of betrayal during our physical times so it often feels more like "sex".

I'm in a similar position, same time frame too! We do all the general good stuff but trust is a major issue and I feel this hinders the whole love making vs sex issue plus the issues of who's leading. I used to initiate all the time but now I hold back and think, do I really want to? Yes I may feel that emotional bond for an hour or two but then the normal feelings return!

A good quote I found was: 'Anyone can get naked for sex or love making but can you show your souls to each other?'. For me personally, that's what I desire - thought I had it but now realise I never did once all the lies and deceit came out from the past. Don't think I can resolve it, certainly not on my own and my wife doesn't see the issue - says it all really!

Maybe, have a good look at what you really want and is your situation broken totally or could it be fixed - no half measures as they don't work long term!

I'm in a similar position, same time frame too! We do all the general good stuff but trust is a major issue and I feel this hinders the whole love making vs sex issue plus the issues of who's leading. I used to initiate all the time but now I hold back and think, do I really want to? Yes I may feel that emotional bond for an hour or two but then the normal feelings return!

A good quote I found was: 'Anyone can get naked for sex or love making but can you show your souls to each other?'. For me personally, that's what I desire - thought I had it but now realise I never did once all the lies and deceit came out from the past. Don't think I can resolve it, certainly not on my own and my wife doesn't see the issue - says it all really!

Maybe, have a good look at what you really want and is your situation broken totally or could it be fixed - no half measures as they don't work long term!

Complicated answer for this...

I think after the initial HB period I would say that we have love making 1 out of 5 times we are intimate. I think my fWH feels like it's love making every time but I struggle tremendously with pain and memories of betrayal during our physical times so it often feels more like "sex".

I’m the BH but this is exactly what it’s like for me.

I think our ‘intimacy’ is pretty good. That part of marriage and intimate moments I think we do ok on. The actual sex was poor before her affair and is still poor now. I can see her enjoying and making an effort on the intimate moments (cuddling, sharing our thoughts and feelings etc). The sex is infrequent, restricted, rushed etc etc. I no longer fight against this.

Obviously (especially as a man) I wish I had both but between the two I’m glad we still have good intimacy.

I'm going to be the total weirdo here and say that I have never understood the distinction between "making love" and having sex. I definitely understand not wanting to have sex with your partner if you are upset, etc. But otherwise isn't it just something pleasant to do together?

Sex has been hard for me. I suffer nightmares of my H and his AP and that often turns into mind movies during the day. My H had an LTA and I don't know if I will ever get past wondering if everything he did with me, he did with her. People tend to be sexual in the same way, meaning that they tend to have sex the same with each person they are with. I have gotten to the point where I am really thinking about whether or not I want any part of my marriage. I have valid reasons for staying. I don't know if I can ever again feel the connection I felt long ago. I think it is sadder for him than for me. He once had all of me, now he only has a small part.

I have had this same question for myself if I were to decide to R.

I think it has to do with me no longer feeling safe in making myself vulnerable to my WS. I gave her everything. Things I was not sharing with anyone else, and she gave them all away. I no longer feel special either and no longer feel that it will be the same or that I am safe in being that vulnerable to her again.

However, the rational part of me knows that this is a choice that I can invest in reversing if I do end up determining that my WS is worth it and has put in the work to rebuild my sense of safety and sense of "specialness"...of course as others have mentioned, it requires my WS to do the work in this with me. I'm not there yet with myself, nor with my WS, but I do believe it would be possible if I chose it to be and she did the work.

Even the concept I have of "she gave it all away" wasn't exactly accurate thinking because, what did she give away? She was a shell of a person in her affair, using me and AP to become one whole human, because she didn't have it in her to be confident and whole with herself. She used AP for sex and escape in a fantasy. The love, the real love, wasn't there. It's a facade. And the love for me wasn't healthy. So, in essence, there was nothing to give away exactly. But there can be rebuilding of a healthy love that I know AP never got from my WS...and sadly I hadn't received either given the eventual circumstances we landed in.

[This message edited by maise at 4:47 PM, May 5th (Sunday)]

I'm going to be the total weirdo here....

If it is any consolation, you are not the only "weirdo" here on this topic. We share the same perspective.

[This message edited by DIFM at 7:06 AM, May 6th (Monday)]

I think it is sadder for him than for me. He once had all of me, now he only has a small part.

PurpleHaze that's a bad ass realization right there.

After DDay1 the HB bug hit and hit hard. We had tons of sex. And made it all about me. I can count 1x close to the year 1 mark that we made love. Then DDay2 and 3. HB isn't hitting but we do engage in sex. And I make it all about me. In fact, the more the mind movies hit during sex [and they do] the more I shift my focus to [ahem] me.

I'm going to be the total weirdo here and say that I have never understood the distinction between "making love" and having sex.

If it is any consolation, you are not the only "weirdo" here on this topic. We share the same perspective.

It's a difficult, but very real, distinction for me. I think it has to do with whether I'm approaching the encounter feeling emotionally intimate or just horny. Sometimes my WW and I make love. Other times I just fuck her. She has a good time either way.

I think, from my perspective, that "love making" is about the partners each focusing on the other partner and their wants and needs and pleasure and end desire. It is about the relationship/partnership.

Where with "just sex" it is about just getting what you want out of it and focusing on yourself primarily. It is about the personal gratification.

In both cases, both partners may enjoy the act, but in one there is probably a greater degree of satisfaction for an emotionally healthy relationship.

It may look the same from the outside.

Sex researchers have found that long term committed partners have greater degrees of reported sexual satisfaction after the act than simply those who are greatly experienced and skilled, this was true with both heterosexual and same sex partnerships.

My view on the difference between "making love" and (just) "having sex" is the same as @standinghere.

And unfortunately, this is the conundrum I am currently stuck in with my fWW. She is, essentially, well, "asexual." She apparently just doesn't feel much of anything "down there," which makes it extremely frustrating for me as I am desperately trying to "make love" to her.

I don't think this has anything to do with her affair, which was an EA only, nor the OM. I think she's more or less always been this way. We went through a very long sexual drought before the affair, but have been trying to bring sex/love-making back into our marriage in our attempt at reconciliation (9 months in so far -- well really 2 months of limbo, 7 months of recon...).

Intellectually I "know" it is not me, it is her; but emotionally it is damn emasculating. My IC therapist asked if I could just accept W's engaging with me sexually as her gift to me. I guess; but I don't really want it to be just about me, I really want her to experience pleasure, too -- and for her to be a true partner in the activity...

But my codependence and fear of rejection is so strong, it is really hard for me to bring this up as a topic of conversation with my W, much less ask her to have sex with me on any given night (given my ED, it is necessary to plan ahead...)

[This message edited by TurnedTurtle at 7:10 AM, May 8th (Wednesday)]

Thank you all for the replies. I really dropped the ball on responding. Things got hectic at work and I just now popped in to check on my post. I really appreciate all the responses.

The topic of love-making vs. sex has come up. Is there even a distinction? I'm with standingHere and do see it as two distinct entities. One, for me personally, is more about two souls really coming together and is almost spiritual in a sense. Sex itself is more about the physical enjoyment and can, for me, lack the emotional element.

@ sisoon, yes I think my WH is fully on board but it is a tough journey for us both. He has also expressed that he wants something more emotionally intimate as well.

@ThisSucks - you pose a good question. Working on the non-sexual ways of connecting (such as cuddling) has been recommended by our MC. So it's definitely something we can improve upon. I know I shouldn't compare but when we just cuddle or hold hands I always think, why am I settling for [just cuddling] when the AP got exciting new sex with my WH? And yes, I've told WH what I'm going through. I suppose I need to find more value in just cuddling because with the lens through which I currently view the world, there is no way for me to come out on top. Building up is what I'm trying to work on. It's a slow painful process.

TurnedTurtle, sorry to hear about your situation. I agree with you in that I want my WH to be a true partner in the activity as well.