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Sounds like he never considered you second best.

Tell him what things would give you I'm your one and most special feelings. I think you're in a good place to try if you both work hard. At this point, if you want to have peace, it would help to not let your fears take your thoughts. Keep building on the good actions and affirmations and go get that happiness you deserve.

Sharing his words is helpful! He does not seem to understand clearly himself why he went for the second kiss, so some IC on that would be helpful. He needs to learn ways to show you you are first and to avoid impulsive “young and dumb” actions. You do not EVER want to be in this place again.

Has anyone yet recommended the Linda MacDonald book: “How stop Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair?” It is free in pdf on-line and is an excellent recipe-book for a WS on what to do to help you. You read it first and mark it up and give it to him with a deadline to finish.

You are lucky his infidelity really was just kissing (they all say that but this is the first one I have seen that really is). You don’t have to wonder if years of your marriage was all a lie due to a LTA, and you don’t have to feel the privacy of marital confidences was breached by all sorts of pillow talk in an EA/full PA. But that said, he still has to do ALL the work to make you feel safe and his permanent priority. I am betting that he is one of the ones who can.

[This message edited by Odonna at 5:35 PM, June 28th (Friday)]

Just curious, does he ever call you out or question you on playing strip poker with OBS? I don't believe you've ever said how far that went but your husband was livid at the time. Am I right in thinking that came first? I am just wondering if the kiss was done as some kind of pay back as it does not seem like he was really attracted to her or into her in any way.

I'm not excusing his behaviour in any way, just wondering if that could be a contributing factor.

I agree with the other posters, I don't see any signs that he wants to be with anyone other than you. Have you been completely honest with your IC about your fears?

And again thank you to all of you strong amazing and supportive people!

I'll offer you a different perspective to consider...

When you make it your mission to try to understand why a cheater cheated you are basically sticking your head into a blender. It's painful, it makes no sense and finally, why would you do that?

Grown men and women KNOW what they do is wrong, but they do it anyway. You know from kindergarten that it's not ok to cheat. Cheaters know. However, they think they are entitled to cheat and then, entitled to your forgiveness, that you won't find out, that they can "sorry" you back into the relationship. What they want is cake, and eat it too.

People can not know how to communicate, and not cheat. People can be very unhappy, and not cheat (see divorce or therapy.). People can be bored, and not cheat (see raising rescue dogs or gardening.). People can be mentally ill, and not cheat (see medication and therapy.). People can be a lot of messy things, and not cheat. Cheaters cheat because they like it. I've never seen a human being doing a thing repeatedly that they didn't like to do. How about you?

So, instead of asking if you're an idiot to stay, ask yourself if this behaviour is acceptable to you from your partner? You aren't an idiot, you are just trying to make sense of something so painful. That, in fact, makes you a good person. And in my opinion, you deserve better. You deserve someone of good character, who would not do this to you.

I hope you choose you.

I think that we do all deserve the best, and as of right now I am doing a lot of self love. I think it’s so important to be happy and kind to ourselves!

And thank you. If we would have been in a different space I maybe would have left. But at the time I didn’t want to break up my family even if he didn’t think that through..... but I do feel he took time in the above statement, and as we have aged I think he is understanding more how stupid it was. And also that we are a team it’s not me against him. Or him against me.

This is seriously why I want my girls to NOT get married till like 30 cause married young is sooooo hard.

Carissima

Nothing happened when we played strip poker. Aside from awkwardness. I remember her asking her husband if he was getting hard.. that was so beyond awkward. Then after I think to make light he wanted to run around the house. Came in and changed. Alone. Not with them.... it was the WORST idea ever. Then the next day he text me and was like can you please delete all those pics on your camera. I was like huh? And when I looked it was like 10 pics of his penis. I really regret not telling my husband that part too. He was such a dirt bag.

I am a fool. I posted his reason that he sent me that I shared with you guys on reddit. And wow the comments are so mean I cried at work

Gently, feeling like a loser is par for the course, even though it's our WSes who are the losers.

In one sense, healing for a BS is the process of changing to believe we are winners, whether we R, or D or our Ms are still works in progress.

I'm in R, and I'm happy that's what I chose. If your WS will do the necessary work and if you want to R, it's a good choice.

If you want to D, or if your WS won't do the work, D is the right choice for you.

The only way to erong is to stifle yourself. My recommendation is to go for what you want and what is attainable.

In the long run the opinion of others don’t matter at all. What matters is how you feel about his response. You are the only one that matters. This has been an ongoing issue for you for ten years after your WH kissed your BF twice. I hope you are getting counseling and in IC to help you finally process this issue. I know you have the fantasy that your WH wanted your BF all along and you were only his second choice. Assuming the kissing ended ten years ago, in the ten years since he last kissed her, has he pursued her? Has he done anything to make you feel like his second choice? I hope you can come to some peace with this issue and have some closure. As for the cruel comments from others. Ignore.

OP, I have read your threads here and on other infidelity sites, although not your most recent reddit one.

The multiple threads show you are obsessed with the thought that you are your husband's second choice, that he wanted to be with this woman since high school or before but she was already going out with his friend. This woman then kissed your husband once because she was angry at his friend and then your husband kissed her once. This happened after the strip poker incident where you played with the couple but your husband didn't.

Gently, this happened 10 years ago. I'm NOT excusing the kissing which was cheating but I have to be honest IMO you didn't deal with the situation correctly at the time or even subsequently. It's possible this was a deal breaker at the time and you didn't realise it. Now it's reached the point of obsession and is detrimental to your mental health. You need to get back into therapy to figure out what's going on before things get worse. To be clear, I'm not talking about the effect on your marriage, I'm concerned about the effect you!

I am a little obsessed and o am not sure why. I have been to counseling so many times and so many different therapists. I think I have tried so hard over the years to just gone someone dealing with the same thing. But no luck. I guess I don’t want to be alone.

And I also struggle with the possibility of him liking another women in that way. And in all reality it’s so pathetic of me to do this. He now is the most amazing loyal husband. I am truly lucky to have him. He really did see what he did and how it hurt me. And changed his entire ways. I think in a way it’s mt past traumas of feeling rejected and so on.

But regardless I should realize that he wants me not her and he has stayed all this time with me. You don’t do that for someone you don’t love. And I need to also stop comparing myself.

Basically I wish I could go relive memories. Have them erased forever. I struggle because I love him so much and with everything I am. And then on the other hand I get so mad at who he used to be.

Also I am not sure if you guys read what he text me about why he did it. But I struggle with trying to understand it. Has such a different thought process then anyone I know. He thinks so differently. So when he tells me this I know he isn’t full of shit he literally feels that. So maybe I also posted his reasoning for people to help me understand. But people just take what he said not knowing him or us or the story and slam him.

I don’t know maybe I am the crazy one.

I wish you the best. It’s good to hear that in the last ten years your WH has been remorseful. You say he has become an amazing, loyal partner and changed his entire ways. Just a thought, but rather than trying to relive memories, make new ones with him. Good luck.

Have you ever been someplace and they were playing the same song over and over again. It’s called looping. It’s where some digital thingie gets stuck and instead of moving on to the next song it just loops back to the same one over and over again. That’s what happened to you. You are looping. You’re not letting go because your brain is stuck on that one thought. For some reason you think you are second-best. If this happened 10 years ago and he has not cheated on you and he has told you you mean the world to him then believe him. It might take some of other form of therapy but I think in all honesty it’s just you having some minor OCD problem. That’s what comes to mind when I read your writing

I think you’re right I do have some sort of looping issue. I am not letting go like normal people. And it’s crazy. I mean yes it sucks and hurts all of us here know this. But how did you all break that cycle of thinking? How do you let go of your SO wanting someone else? And I am serious I want advice of coping skills.

So I had my DDay in 2014. I went to some counseling, where the therapist helped me by providing "EMDR" therapy. Certainly, discovering infidelity is a form of Traumatic Stress for all of us. EMDR is used to treat PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). At the time, I was a little leary about what benefits it would provide. But the therapist did it for a couple of sessions, and in hindsight, it has helped a lot. You may want to check it out. That is what helped me get over the "looping".

You are not an idiot for staying.

You wouldn't be an idiot for going.

Your spouse was an idiot for straying.

Staying is the hardest thing ever. We get (from family, friends, etc):

- "We're idiots for staying. From here on, we get what you deserve." Fun, isn't it? Our biggest pain ever and there are people who say this.

- "You HAVE to forgive AND forget if you stay. Don't? YOU are the problem! If I were your spouse and you didn't forgive and forget I'd be outta there!"

- "If you asked ME to take a poly and sign a post nup, then you're too controlling for me. That's abuse!"

Divorce? We get:

- "There's no reason to be bitter!"

- "But X deserves to be happy!" You know, kinda like we didn't.

- "Why are you taking more of the assets and asking for anything other than a FAIR split?" Oh, I dunno. Maybe because X wasn't being fair and can't be trusted?

- "Work it out. X loves you! You were so good together!" Once again, we get ALL the pressure.

So we get all the pain. The pain of betrayal. The pain of being played. We get the pain of other's lack of support. But staying? That's a whole lot harder. We get less respect for having the heart and compassion to give another person who has napalmed our hearts and lives another chance.

No. You're NOT an idiot. Say it with me...

[This message edited by OptionedOut at 1:12 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]

2014

I tried EMDR it was ok ish. I don’t think I did it very long to work. I think that I am just so hard headed and have such a big ego. That it’s hard to let it go. And I guess I feel so played like I just didn’t see it. How could I not see it? How could I trust so openly like a fool. And how could my husband step out on me with someone he had no future with. My struggles about these things are getting so ridiculous I literally have been in a space before where I thought of suicide because I know I can’t leave him I love him to Much and I can’t handle my thoughts and down days. It’s a never ending cycle that I am so sick of. It’s just hard for me to process that he tells me he didn’t want her, but yet his actions show otherwise.

Optionedout. You are so right you can’t win anyway you look at it. It’s always dammed day you do and dammed if you don’t. It’s such an ugly thing period. And thank you I think I need to give myself more affirmations and not be so hard on myself. I think we all need to be. It’s super hard to try to get on the page of it wasn’t us it’s them they have issues for cheating. But man it’s so hard not to look at yourself as something not good enough.

“because I know I can’t leave him I love him to Much”

If you actually have made this decision then you must reconcile yourself to never really knowing what happened and never really knowing if it will happen again. The most important thing for YOU now is to suspend any wishes for an outcome and just observe and protect yourself so you can make a REAL decision based on facts.

And if he knows, or even suspects, that you have already decided not to leave, well, you will only get TT and more lies and he will coil back in the knowledge that he “has you.”

Please get some space for yourself and some support IRL to address this with all options open!

[This message edited by Odonna at 8:44 PM, August 22nd (Thursday)]