SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sadandsohurt -

I am so sorry for your hurt and pain. I remember well the devastation an affair causes. I am a plain-spoken person. Please read the following with the knowledge that I am trying to HELP you.

It is important for you to take the word "but" out of your vocabulary. You say over and over that you hear what the people who are trying to help you are telling you...and then you defend your position. The people on this site know what they are talking about. HE should not be telling you how to heal. HE should not be telling you that he does not FEEL like talking. HE blew up your life. HE chose to disrespect, humiliate and abuse you. HE continues to do these things despite your pain. HE does not get to call the shots. HE could have done other things if he was unhappy and he chose to cheat. Sassylee posted a list of 15 points a successful reconciler should display. Is your husband displaying any of these? If not, you need to recognize this and make a decision about your life and the life of your kids.

You are obsessing about this woman because your gut is telling you it is still going on. Whether the A continues with this trash or whether it is over, HE will most likely cheat again with the attitude and actions he is displaying. He is NOT remorseful. You are making a choice to live infidelity. It is an awful way to live. You can choose to continue to do this or you can take your power back. I have read many, MANY posts from BS who are in pain and are desperate to save their marriages. Sometimes this is possible...if the WS changes and if the power dynamic changes in the relationship. Otherwise, you will have to learn to live in infidelity, in pain, in desperation. One day he may find another person who he wants to be with and you will be divorced whether you like it or not. Even if this A ends now, there are no guarantees. HE is NOT interested in your feelings about what he is doing. HE is doing what he wants to do and you are allowing this by your inaction. I know this is awful, devastating, horrendous and all you want is the safety of your marriage, but HE is not safe and your marriage is not safe.

Please, please hear these wonderful people. Do not make the choice to live the way you are living.

lie detector....he will make you crazy...if he doesn't agree....lawyer...

He is running away from admitting anything...his taping is him preparing for a D anyway....to make you look crazy...stop talking to him...stop expecting him....stop.....he isn't going to participate and give you what you need because he is guilty..

XWH tried this....he wasn't fast enough with his phone...in the end....D is pretty basic...these little tapes do nothing.

You are crazy...because he makes you crazy....you are feeding into his smearing of your character... step away....take care of you...breathe.....you cant make him.

Do not engage...you have much to say..you want to scream...you explode...you revenge...coming from the D arena.....I advise you....do not engage...always think first....pause...this stuff blows up...

You are no longer talking or dealing with the husband you knew....They can become stuck in A fog...they believe this is what they want, and choose it over you....I spent much time trying to reach my husband...trying to make him see...trying to show him what he was doing was cruel....

It never reached him....he had chosen....I couldn't compete with his new wants...he was nothing like the man I married... I had to accept that.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 8:41 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]

Thank you "Notmine" what did you do? Did you tell the other woman you knew? Did you tell her husband? Did you work through it? I feel stronger in one way..I know I can't live like this and the desperation and pain is awful...

It consumes your every moment.. I have hung on for 5 months hoping he would stop and teu to fix this..but he just blames me for it all..and gas lights and I'm pretty sure he is till with her.. no proof just gut feeling. I want to much for this to end and for him to see it for what is is..there are no winners.. he will end up losing his family and his affsir .its so so sad. I wish he would just stop and try to work ahead but he can't

Thanks 'cancuncrushed' so what happened then with you guys? Did he end up staying with her? Did he try to win you back? Does taking control and telling her I know and being firm with him that I dont believe him I'm done and have had enough work? Or is it all too far gone and damaged? I still csnt believe he we could continue it..I know I'm stupid. its just so painful.. he knows how shattered i am how broken I am on antidepressants but he doesnt care. He is so entangled in his own selfishness he csnt stop..she is not making it hard as she doesnt know I know. So hes lying to both if us but protecting her in the end..how can it ever work there are no winnrs

You need to take control of your life. Go to the Healing Library (upper left hand corner) READ it all but pay close attention to the article about the 180. It’s time to implement it. You know he’s still cheating and it sounds like it’s gone physical. There’s still a chance to save the marriage but it depends on the true nature of your husband and whether you ultimately want this marriage. It’s almost always a knee jerk reaction to save the marriage but once you begin healing from the trauma and you find your strength you may choose differently.

1. implement the 180. Detach.

2.Call OW’s husband. He may have info you don’t (by the way - you do not need any more proof - YOU know WH is being an ass, you know he’s not helping you heal, and you know he’s not remorseful. Share what you know, ask OBS (other BS) if he’s noticed anything. Make him your ally. Share what your H’s told you and what your gut is saying now.

3. See a lawyer - you’re afraid right now - fear is your enemy. Find out exactly what a divorce will look like financially. Knowledge is power. Take away any unreasonable fears.

4. Tell your support system. If that his parents - call them up. If it’s your friends or family - tell. My rock? My neighbour. She’s been an annoyance for 20 years - yet when she found me crying in my garage - she became my strength. Tell whoever you think will hold you up!

5. See your Dr. Tell her or him that you suspect a physical affair. You’ll need STD testing but more immediately - ask for pharmaceutical help for sleep/anxiety/depression - whatever you need to maintain your grip on things.

Sadansohurt - you can not control him. You can’t make him stop the affair. You can’t make him love you and your kiddos like you deserve. The only control you have is YOU. From this point on choose what’s best for you and you alone. Is this what you want you life to be the next 30 years? Are you willing to share your husband? Have a sister wife? It’s time to risk losing the marriage to save it. Did you read my profile story? My husband wouldn’t end it either...until I held his face in my hands, smiled and kissed him then said the magic words “I love you honey and I know you love me but you obviously need this woman in your life and that’s not okay with me. I want a divorce.” I know it seems counterintuitive - that this is your best chance at saving your marriage....if that’s what you want.

Keep us updated. We know how much this hurts.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:17 AM, July 2nd (Tuesday)]

Hi Sadandsohurt,

I have not read all of the responses, but just wanted to tell you my experience with the WH continuing to work with the OW:

My WH had a PA with a Slunt coworker. They sat next to each other at work all day every day for months before Dday. I kicked him out of the house on Dday, and then caught them having lunch together a few times in the following months. It took my going to a lawyer and starting divorce proceedings for him to finally ask me to give him a second chance. He moved back home, and told me that he had gotten himself transferred to a different part of the building so that he "only ran into her once in awhile".

WH claimed that he could not change jobs because he was there so long and was so specialized that he would not be able to find a comparable job, and we needed his income (4 kids).

Every day when he left for work, I wondered if he would "run into her" that day, and every day I wondered where he was at lunchtime. Since I was not in the building, how did I know for sure that he was telling me the truth? I will never know.

Finally , 4 years after Dday, the Slunt moved across the country so that she is no longer in our daily lives.

We are 8 years out now----and although we are still together, I would not say that we have rebuilt our marriage, because WH has not done "the work." I still believe that our R was adversely affected by him staying at the same job.

Personally, I don't think that R is possible if they continue to work together.

If there is any hope of your marriage surviving, you have to be willing to walk away. This will give you the power. Right now, your WH has all of the power.

Thanks sassylee..yes you're right I need go take control..so you believe me doing 180 and taking control will make it stop..not for sure but I guess it gives me power to work on me. Did your husband come back in and you are reconciled.. did you trust again?

I was thinking I will contsct the AP tell her I know and have done for months and tell her he has been lying go her also. Tell her to back away shes 1 chance or I will tell her husband straight away..do you think that may work at all? If she backs away she knows the danger shes in then it will be over? I dunno..its 12:30am and hes still not home.mstill sitting in his car at the water..

(((SASH)))

First off, a quick technical detail. You can indeed make longer posts. If the problem is that you're typing to where the text box expands over the "Preview" and "Submit Message" buttons, you can still zoom in on the screen and get enough of those buttons accessible for you to click them. Another approach is to click "Preview" after the first sentence and then go back to composing the message by clicking "Edit." If you do that, the text box will stop scrolling over the Preview and Submit Message buttons.

Second: God, it hurts to say this, but I see a lot of myself in your WH. Because I had ended my PA, I thought my BH (who was then my BBF) should trust me and be ok with continued platonic contact between myself and OM. I was sorry about the past but disregarded the hell I was putting BBF through with continued contact. I saw things through a very practical lens: it was over, so we should get over it. And when he was still in hellacious pain after six months, I asked if there was really a point to going through all this anymore. Because we were not married, or even engaged, I implied that pretty soon, it would be time to just cut our losses. Were we committing to being happy together, or should we both move on? My BBF was so afraid of losing me that he rugswept everything. He decided that if I would go NC with OM, then he would propose. I agreed, and in my mind, everything was fixed. It makes me want to vomit to say it, but I was more worried about the impact on OM. BBF had "won," after all. He had me and the A was over. Why wouldn't he be happy? This led to 29 years of rugsweeping and periodic internal trauma for my BH. We are just processing it now.

With the new information you posted, my gut tells me that your WH might indeed be honest about the A being over. My experience tells me that he needs a lot of emotional education on why this doesn't mean that your pain is over. Your fears are valid because trust has been broken. He knows that the A has ended, but that does NOT mean that he has earned the right to be believed about that. He has not atoned; he is mildly regretful, but not remorseful. He wants to focus on whether HE thinks your M is worth saving, without regard to the very legitimate reasons why you feel he should be begging you for a second chance.

I encourage you to ask your WH to read up on PTSD. Point out to him that people who come back from war are triggered by Fourth of July fireworks. Does that mean that fireworks can actually blow them up from miles away? No. Does knowing that mean that they can just ignore the trigger? No. They are traumatized. You are traumatized. He cannot just ask a traumatized person to shrug and trust him. Yes, you absolutely need IC to help you heal, but what he is doing is akin to setting fireworks off in a combat veteran's backyard. This is true even if every word that's coming out of his mouth about the A is accurate, which would be more or less a first here in Waywardland.

The thing is, Sad, it's unlikely that he is going to wake up just because you tell him this. I'd try it, in the off chance that it appeals to his sense of logic, but if it fails, it's time to do the 180 to get some headspace. You need to detach. He's shown that he lacks the empathy to help you in your pain. It shouldn't be just on you to heal from it, but right now, it is. I'm so sorry.

Thanks mchercheur. Yes he totally does have the power here. It is 12:30am still not home he is sitting in his car at the water. sad she is cuddled up to her husband fast asleep and he still wants to protect her? How easy she has it. How did you go for 4 years it kills me every day. They work on the same team. Every lunch time is such a mess. Did you tell the AP you knew about her, did you tell her hisband? I dont think I can wait she will never leave the job..only been there a year and her daughter is in the child care there. He has fo be the one to leave..I think it's alltoo late. I could forgive him the 1st time but the continuing on is horrific

I'm going to sound harsh.

Fuck a polygraph. What you need is a divorce. At this point, the fact that he has never ended the affair is a side issue. The real issue is he is extremely abusive. The way he gas lights you, taunts you, mocks you. Oh my God. He is cruel.

That video? He made it for his girlfriend. They're laughing.

Blow this shit up. Call her husband. Offer a copy of any evidence you have. See an attorney. File. 180. Get him the fuck away from you.

Stop crying. He likes it. It feeds his cruel streak. It is fuel for his affair.

He's been gone for a long time. It sounds like he's lining up his ducks. Since her husband doesn't know, she is probably lining hers up as well.

You need to stop falling apart in his presence. Sweetheart, I know it feels like you are drowning right now. And you are. But you are begging him to save you, and he won't. Save yourself.

At this point DO NOT CONTACT OW. NO NO NO! First - you’re truing to control OW’s actions. You can not...you can only control yours. She will go home and tell her husband “Oh my god honey - you remember Mr Sasansohurt from work? The poor guy - he’s so embarrassed! His wife is having a mental breakdown. She’s called Sally’s and Josie’s husbands accusing them of sleeping with her husband. It’s messing up so many marriages! They’ve had to get restraining orders!! Can you believe it? Who knows how many women in the office she’s going to target!” She’ll add in her own flavour to make him believe you’re a nut job so if you do call he’ll already think you’re wrong. She may block your number from his phone. I’m not paranoid here - I’ve read it a hundred times on here.

Just call her husband. Would you like to be kept in the dark? What would you want him to do if he was the one to discover the affair? It’s scary - I know. But it’s the right thing to do for him and for you.

I’m 7 years out and I think I trust my husband as much as is humanly possible post infidelity. We are not “back to normal” but that’s a good thing. Our normal was dysfunctional and unhealthy. It took me 5 years to fully heal although I got better incrementally. Each year was better than the previous. But this can not be your focus right now. Stop thinking about reconciliation and focus on getting yourself out of infidelity. Your husband can do whatever he wants - but not as your husband. Let go of the outcome. You have no control over it. Too much depends on your WH’s choices and actions.

Your marriage might be rebuilt like mine - or it may not. There’s far too many variables much of which can’t be controlled. Your husband may pull his head out of his ass or he may keep it firmly implanted. My marriage is doing well because I decided I wasn’t going to be mistreated and drew up my boundaries and my husband worked really hard at making amends and learning to be selfless and mindful.

The 180 will give you strength. It will empower you and you’ll begin healing. That’s the key. You’ll stop flailing and develop a plan for your life. That might include your WH or you might realize this is a dealbreaker. Right now stop focusing on him and OW and put the focus on you and your kidlets! They need you! 180 180 180!!!!

Sadandsohurt, your posts are so raw. I am so very sorry for all that you are going through. Everything you are feeling is to be expected when you've been betrayed. Please don't let your husband minimize your feelings!

Your H violated your marriage vows. He promised to love and cherish you, and that involves being faithful to you and keeping you emotionally safe. THAT is what you were promised, and you got a raw deal instead - instead, you got a husband who, when things got rough in his marriage, didn't resolve to fix things the right way. Why did he do this? Because he is SELFISH. Waywards are always selfish. Everything he has done since you found out about his affair reveals his selfishness. He should not be turning this around and pointing the finger at you. Instead, he should be on his knees thanking you that you are giving him another chance. The reason he is not on his knees thanking you is because he is still stuck in his selfish, wayward ways. Take it from someone who has been in a very similar situation to your own.

My husband worked closely with a married woman for several months. They developed a "friendship" which evolved into an ego-kibble buffet for both of them. Flirtatious texts, cutsey photos, deep discussions, etc. Then when I found out, H did exactly what your husband is doing - minimizing things and making me seem like a crazy, overreactive, jealous wife. He refused to fire her - he told me he could not bring such hurt on her and her family or make his office uncomfortable. (But he was completely fine with shattering my heart!) The truth was, he did not care all that much about anyone but himself. He did not want the ego kibbles to dry up and he did not want to feel the discomfort conflict brings when a boss must fire someone. He also did not want to face the man in the mirror - he did not want to admit his selfishness, weaknesses, and other issues.

I can tell you this ... as long as your husband works with the AP, you will never heal. Your marriage will not get better. Even if they did end their affair, it will ALWAYS have the potential to re-ignite. Things did not improve for me until the OW left. Then, and only then, could we begin to consider reconciliation.

People here say this all the time, and there is so much wisdom in it. To save your marriage, you must be willing to lose it.

Demand that your husband get a polygraph. You need to have the full truth. You deserve it. You MUST have it or you will forever be haunted by questioning and wondering whether or not his story of what happened is the full truth.

If things on the poly don't line up with what you've been told by him previously, you need to walk away. You cannot stay in a marriage with a liar and a cheater. If you do, you'll be like some of those on SI who come back hurting again and again because their spouse cheated a second, third, and even fourth time.

Meet with a lawyer to discuss your options. Options empower. Options give you the control that you need. When your H sees that you are serious about walking away if he does not do what it takes to save the marriage, it just may be the wake up call he needs to fix what he broke.

Read, read, read SI! There is so much wisdom here and so many people who have been through what you've been through and survived. You need to hear their stories. Hang in there. You are stronger than you think, and you CAN do what needs to be done.

Sadandsohurt,

The Slunt in my situation was divorced, so there was no BH to tell.

It is 12:30am still not home he is sitting in his car at the water

Are you sure ^^^that is where he is?

Cheaters are liars.

sad she is cuddled up to her husband fast asleep and he still wants to protect her?

Your WH is NOT out of the affair if he is still thinking about her in ^^^this way.

Have you told her BH yet? DO NOT tell your WH that you are going to tell her BH.

How easy she has it. Did you tell the AP you knew about her

I never spoke to her.

They say it over and over on this site----that the AP is not the problem, our WSs are----and that we should not waste any time obsessing about them and how unfair it is. Easier said than done, but now, with hindsight, I realize how wise that advice is.

Do not lower yourself to have any contact with the OW. She doesn't care about you or what you have to say. It will only give her more power for you to talk to her. However, DO inform her BH what she has been up to (without telling either your WH or the OW.)

I could forgive him the 1st time but the continuing on is horrific

One step at a time.

Your priority right now is to get yourself out of infidelity. Right now your WH is still in the A (at least in the way that he is thinking.)

This will continue on like this for as long as you allow it.

She knows you know. She doesn't care. Your husband has convinced her he has you so twisted up, you wont tell her husband.

Dont do her the favor of warning her. She will show her husband the video and tell him you are crazy, that you have gone around accusing all female coworker's of an affair, she will tell him you have

already told several other husbands their wives have fucked your husband.

Just call him. She will throw your husband under the bus. It will most likely end the affair.

You've kept her secret for 5 months. In that time he has shown no remorse, been abusive,and continued the affair. It's time you do something different.

I never spoke to OW. She was beneath my notice and never promised me anything. You cannot trust OW as they are sick and often want attention or an excuse to contact WH to wriggle back into the affair.

I did inform her husband but do not know how that turned out as I never heard back. If you inform, it can assist you in that the OW will be dealing with a shitstorm and will often go NC in order to save her own marriage. Affairs thrive in secrecy so it helps to expose the affair. It is important to tell no one that you are informing the other spouse as the two losers engaged in the affair can intercept communication or make you sound crazy. Try to get proof so that you can show the OP.

I lived in infidelity until I got my power back. When I found out he had continued to contact the OW, I went to an attorney and found out my rights, packed up his crap and informed him calmly that I had seen an attorney. He could go if he wished, but to stay in a marriage with me there would be certain conditions. I then followed the 180 in that I went NC to detach (this really helped my state of mind), only spoke to him when necessary about our daughter, did not fall into his stupid drama, did nothing for him - no laundry, etc., slept somewhere else. Sometimes you need to be willing to give up the marriage to save it. Sometimes this does not work and the WH refuses to cooperate with demands. You will end up getting out of infidelity through divorce. You will feel stronger if you see an attorney and get a handle on your rights if this happens. You can always file but do not have to go through with it. He needs to know you mean business.

I am almost 4 years out from DDay. My husband chose to do the work: 1. Counseling every other week for the last almost 4 years. 2. 12 step meetings weekly for the last 4 years 3. Being WILLING to take suggestions from therapist/sponosr and to put them in ACTION 4. Being unconditionally compassionate, supportive and not defensive whenever I am triggered, need to ask questions or am thinking about the A or the ramifications of the A 5. Being remorseful without fail 6. Making me feel loved and desirable every day 7. Being completely transparent in all things - all electronics are open to me when ever I want to look and his whereabouts are always traceable 8. Never lying or being dishonest. 9. Telling me EVERY day how grateful he is that he is in my life and that I allowed him to be. 10. Letting my occasional hostile comments go without comment. 11. Recognizing that he has to live with the consequences of his actions for the rest of his life.

This is a shit ton of work. My WH is a better person, better man and safer partner for me. The idea here is that this work is CONSISTENT over time. His ACTIONS have made me feel like it is possible to stay married and possible to stay safe in the marriage. When you are new and feel like you want to attempt R, I feel like this is what it should look like. This is what it had to be for me. Make no mistake however, that I am not always on alert for any signs of backsliding. I have mostly forgiven (for myself most of all) but will NEVER forget. We do not every get over it. We learn to live with it.

Oh ladies...I'm devastated again..so today I had that gut feeling again..something was not right..I called him 3 times through lunch and he didn't answer..he then sent a text to say what's up I don't want to talk,is it important? I called again still didnt pick up and then he did..I asked him where were you and he said "where was I?" It was such a strange response.. I said where were you and again he answered the same way..not I was in a meeting I was working with someone..

Then I said you were with her he said "was i?" I could hear it in his voice he was answering me back. I said omg I can't believe you would do this to us..you know how much

(((Sadandsohurt))) your pain, fear and desperation for your M are palpable through this post. Take a deep breath and know that no matter what none of this was ever your fault, even now. There is nothing YOU can do to change your WS. Your WS is acting like an abuser and he has some real strong NPD tendencies. He is torturing you by triangulation. Take yourself out of the equation. Start following the 180 I think this is your best bet and detach. I know it's not what you want to hear but the way your WS is acting is leaving you no choice.

I would expose the OW and the A to the ends of this earth.

Get yourself into an IC and get stronger. Your MO is to get strong enough that you will no longer be afraid to 'lose theM' that is when you will be acting from a point of strength.

We are here for you.

this is why i had to leave, he wouldn't leave his job and he would see her every day, i was a wreck all day. And just like you my ex was home every night and every weekend. they would just leave work early check into a hotel and then both go home to their spouses and kids! I could not deal with the constant need for vigilance, so i walked, they are still together and they are both not sorry in any way- they are horrible people.

This is NO longer about him and everything he's doing (and not doing).

He's shown you WHO AND WHAT HE IS.

This now ALL about YOU and why you're hesitating taking action and doing what you have to do to protect you and your children.

We can go around and around with trying to analyze what's happening. As HellFire suggested time to "BLOW IT UP"!!

Ask yourself this one question. Is what you're doing working?

Another question. Has anything changed for the better?

What you're doing is NOT working.

So it's time to do something different.

It's very apparent that you are hesitating to take action (file for D, tell OBS, tell OW etc) because you think if you do it will be the last nail in the coffin and will end any chance of trying to repair your marriage with your husband.

I know it hurts but my friend the marriage/relationship you had is dead. I get it, you're so scared of the future and what that may look like that you're willing to do ANYTHING to hold on to this man who is showing you time and time again that he does NOT VALUE you nor love you.

Why would you want to hold on to this?

Why haven't you exposed his shit to your family?

To his family?

You have one of two choices.

Do what you've been doing and continue to be in hell feeling like you want to die all day long OR go see an attorney and get your legal options in place and than go tell OBS, followed by confronting OW, and than tell your family, his family and all of your friends.

You have one way forward and that is to leave his sorry ass. I see no other options.,

What happened? My XWH mourned his AP …..he was considered to have a breakdown...

I tried to R...HE did zero....HE made attempts to cheat...some were successful....I couldn't catch him or stop him...I certainly made no influence on him...he blamed me for his life now....he wanted AP..

His alcoholism became chronic and out of control....he had medical issues...when he relapsed and found AP2 he left me...with no explanation...just disappeared...after 36 years...we still have not spoken in 14 months...I still have no story.. He wasn't going to lose this AP.....like last time....AP dumped him...we are D....he is dangerously binge drinking...blaming me for all...there was never hope...his thinking is clearly off.

He was very mean to me the entire time between AP's...cruel....cheating and rubbing it in my face...had zero concern for my cancer scare, surgery, and high blood pressure...and told me regularly....he hated me and his life.

sadly, neither AP cared about him...they used him..and dumped him. Somehow, its my fault. It was trauma all over again....Now as time passes, and I am working on things always....im thankful he left...quietly and eagerly.... I never dreamed in a million years, I would feel grateful for AP...funny how life changes.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 7:25 PM, July 3rd (Wednesday)]