SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Panic attacks and bi-polar go hand-in-hand. You're in for years of hell if you stay with that woman. And you're correct in thinking that what she said to the other man was what she really felt. It had nothing to do with what he wanted to hear and everything to do with her feelings about you compared to him. At least she's currently being honest about one thing; that she's f'd up right now. She would do well to add that she's always been f'd up and will probably continue to be f'd up because she would rather be a drain on your finances getting prescriptions and a weight on your mental facilities blaming you and others than do the hard work of fixing herself. Because of this, she'll always bring pain to anyone that gets close to her.

It's important that you focus on yourself and your future rather than on her and her continuous emotional issues. You have to decide what steps you need to take in order to secure your future happiness and mental stability. Spending your life with a mental midget brings stress and an early death. Treat yourself like you would a best friend. Knowing all that you know, what would you tell your best friend to do? What would you do to help your best friend resolve his situation? Do that for yourself. You are much more important to yourself and the people who truly care about you than you know. I wish the best for you.

I rarely say this...

Get divorced ASAFP. There is nothing to save here.

Other stuff she said

Words are deceptive especially from someone who lies so easily. Watch her actions. Do her actions line up with her words ? Right now I'd bet you have no faith in her words. You shouldn't.

Her choices have severely damaged the people that are closest to her. Keep sharing and don't waffle.

I really think it would be helpful for you to see an IC. It was the best thing I ever did for myself. Don't let your experience with

her

therapist, emphasis on her, dissuade you. That IC was focused on helping, her, even if it is at your expense.

You need someone that will help you. Keep your options open.

Her words are something very big to overcome. I am not sure how one gets past that. The journey begins in IC and focusing on yourself and your daughter. Don't fall for empty promises that your W has not means of validating through actions right now.

She is getting desperate, but has not hit rock bottom yet. She needs to hit rock bottom before she will find the motivation to do the very painful work and growth that she needs to be the wife that you deserve.

I am know this seems like little comfort now, but you are doing the things you need to. When you are in Hell, keep going. Be mindful of further manipulations and lies. She needs to be 100% honest with you from now, even if it hurts one or both of you. You need to be honest with her.

Has she provided transparency in thought, action and all communications ? What has she done since Dday except cry any time the conversation turns to the horribly hurtful thing that she has done? She know tears disarm you. It is her "hail mary" move once she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on. let's call what that is. Manipulation. When she does that I would break off the conversation and state your reasons for doing so. Words are meaningless without actions to back them up.

Explore all options, but I agree not making rash decisions is always a wise move.

How she “can’t live without me and how she would literally die.” Other stuff she said - “We can’t get divorced, we just can’t. I’m trying to work on my issues. You have to atleast try. Please. Please. I need you. For however long it takes for you to get over or through this. You can beat me up as long as it takes. I’m fucked up in the head right now. I know I fucked up so bad. I’m willing to do anything to prove my true love for only you.”

Boiler plate Cover Your Ass

Blah blah tears, Blah blah blah words said now that she is busted. It’s the words spoken when you were not watching that count.

From what you wrote, everything is about her... I didn’t read any concerns about what she did to you... I didn’t read anything like “I will do anything to heal you”

What she said to OM about cuckolding you was said as a turn-on, both to the OM and for herself. That she finds that titillating is a big problem all by itself. Is she in IC to address her problems? I hope so, but fundamentally what turns her on is probably immutable. It is OK for you to decide that is the deal-breaker.

I am so sorry you are going through this...

Text conversation from today:

Wife: The one thing I have done and will continue to do is take ownership for what I did, Joey. I wish you could understand I haven’t been making excuses. I’m just trying to help myself and you understand why I was in such a dark place to do such a terrible thing

I feel like you want everyone to hate me. But believe me, no one could hate me more than I hate myself.

Me: I don’t want everyone to hate you. I just feel like I’m losing my mind. I need help and counsel. I’m even on an anonymous support forum where I posted the whole story. Other people who had this happen to them, have been helping me cope. I’ve had over 100 responses and I’ve been on there almost a week now. What they are saying is really thought out and amazing they are taking the time out for a stranger. Also, Pretty much all of them think our therapist is high and might not be the one to help.

Wife: I think that you are just not emotionally capable of understanding that I didn’t do this to cheat. How bad my depression has been and how that’s not an excuse, but it’s also not that I just did this for no reason. How we have had issues in the past that we never worked through the proper way. I think you are very one sided when it comes to this situation, and you’re allowed to be bc you are the victim. I just think if we were to talk about this together to people, you wouldn’t see this one- sided response.

I also don’t think that you can understand that the counselor isn’t trying to fix this marriage. He’s trying to fix me separately and in turn, fix our marriage if that’s what we want

I just think your expecting people and our counselor to right away tell me how wrong I am /was (which he has said multiple times and how he admits how I take ownership) the thing is, just repeating that over and over doesn’t solve this. Figuring out why this happened and learning tools and coping mechanisms is what will heal us.

It’s just hard for you to understand that bc you’re still so rage - filled at the moment.

I would highly advise not having emotional discussions in text.

Also, she has a LOT of work to do in IC before she can tell you what your problems are! Her claims of depression and dark places may be true, but are irrelevant. She cannot deny her own agency in making the DECISION to cheat.

Listen, if there are things you will never get over (what she said would be it for me), then you just have to steel yourself for divorce. But the silver lining there is that you do not have to have any of these discussions any more. None of her rationalizations will matter on your path forward. All you need to do is make sure she gets IC to be a good parent to your child as a single parent. So think about if what you know makes divorce inevitable even if unwelcome and horrible. You can spare yourself a lot of pain if that is the case.

[This message edited by Odonna at 11:10 AM, July 24th (Wednesday)]

I would highly advise not having emotional discussions in text.

I only disagree with Odonna's advice on premise of having records to present if you need to do so legally, as long as you make sure to keep clear-headed, calculated and fight the impulse to respond in a way that could be construed by an outside party as hostile.

And btw... if she thinks you're rage-filled NOW, boyyyyy is she in for a rude awakening in a couple of months.

Something that helped me in public is to keep in mind the following (perhaps not the healthiest of concepts):

Just because those other people/families seem happy on the outside, Gd only knows what's actually going on.

Since there's no way to know, there's no reason to be sad nor envious of what they appear to have. Think of it this way - your daughter had an amazing time, and kids are VERY perceptive to familial conflict... which means that nobody else who clearly aren't as perceptive (unless they themselves have experienced it first-hand) noticed either.

In essence, you looked to them just as happy as they looked to you.

I hope that helped and didn't do the opposite lol.

Summary to above:

Do whatever you need to do to cope/build a record while avoiding giving ammunition. Keep posting, vent as much as you need.

We ain't just a club... we're an (unfortunately) LARGE dyafunctional family. Minus the creepy uncle.

The written words she seems to have used repeatedly with the OM .. I think those can actually be tougher to recover from than the fact of a PA. It may end up being the clearest dealbreaker for you.

Regarding her attempt to persuade you to R, I agree with everyone saying to trust her actions, not just her words. Her words are sounding sincere but coming from such a sharp betrayal... actions count so much more.

If you do decide to pursue R, there is a lot to recover from. And she needs a ton of personal work. Nothing is impossible, but it is good that you are seeing a lawyer soon. Please continue to take care of yourself as best you can.

Also, I agree that the message to the other BS might have been intercepted.

Hang in there.

Shes in "I'm the victim" mode. It really wasn't me that cheated?

I think that you are just not emotionally capable of understanding that I didn’t do this to cheat.

You know there have been a few threads like, "What is the dumbest thing your WS said?" They're definitely worth a read...some real zingers in there. This would be a worthy addition.

I'm going to go ahead and say she might not be the most qualified person to judge someone else's emotional maturity. I dunno, call it a hunch.

She does not get it, she's entitled and think YOU OWE it to her to save the M she destroyed the second she got naked for another man, have you EXPOSE the A with all family and close friends yet ? She's not even close to being remorseful, she just regrets getting caught and it would still be ongoing had you not found out about it. I would just file for D (it takes a long time) without warning and watch her try to desperately try to change your mind before it's final, in the meantime demand she gets tested for STDs and apolgizes to the entire family for her huge betrayal, if there's a chance to R successfully, she needs to remember the A as the one thing that damaged her reputation and integrity, the embarrassing thing that destroyed the stability of your family instead of something exciting, beautiful and romantic.

Sounds like she thinks she needs some time and space to work on herself... give it to her... you have some work to do anyway. Many people here would have loved to hear their (ex)spouses admit that they need help and need to address deep-seeded issues.

Let her do what she must to heal herself, and you do what you must as well.

You don't have to decide to divorce right now.

Focus on you. Get yourself healthy - mentally and physically. Get some emotional distance from her buy implementing the 180. It's not permanent. You've both admitted that she has problems that neither of you can fix on your own and NOBODY can fix in a short period of time. You're just gonna have to ride "the rollercoaster". It sucks... we all have our ticket stubs from our ride on those rails, but you can survive and come out the other side even better than before.

She wants to talk about all the things that were wrong in the marriage and connect it to her cheating, but the fact is that cheating is not EVER an appropriate response to anything. IMHO, you don't need joint counselling now, you each need your own support - marriage counselling can (and should) wait.

BTW, change or delete the names in your posts (click the little pen/paper icon in the top right corner of your post to edit)... they help identify you. Don't even talk to her about this place anymore - it's YOUR safe place.

Let her do what she will do - just WATCH. And TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF! Are you eating? Drinking lots of water but no booze? Exercising?

Are you SURE there's no more contact with the other man? I hate to ask, but we've seen it time and again around here...

Sheesh...what a mess. Looks like she's still blaming issues in the marriage for her actions and her 'counselor' is likely supporting and maybe pushing that thought pattern. It's the easy way out for both her and the counselor. Neither one has to do any hard work. They both get to blame it on factors beyond their control.

She's saying she's a victim too which would be hilarious as hell if her choices weren't so horrific. She really needs to counsel with someone who specializes and has a good track record in infidelity otherwise she and the counselor are going to rug-sweep the behavior and she'll be at it again with the next guy that matches her fantasy; blaming you, her marital issues, and anything else she can use again the whole time.

She also communicates as though you're some emotionally stunted child that can't possibly understand what 'she's' going through. Wow. I'd have to shut her talking to me like that down and quick. I could feel my blood getting extremely warm while reading the way she communicates toward you. "...not emotionally capable..."? [Grrr] The kettle needs to focus on closing its holes that are being plugged by other men rather than giving unwanted opinions about the pot.

It is not really owning it with actions if it is littered with appositive phrases and "buts." There is no "spin" to be had here. She cheated and hurt her family. Things are never going to be the same.

I think that you are just not emotionally capable of understanding that I didn’t do this to cheat

Veiled dig at you aside, intent really doesn't matter to you does it? She cheated. She spoke ill of you behind your back. So she did not actually betray you and her marriage ? I am confused (sarcasm). She did cheat. That fact has been established. The rest are details that don't change the facts.

I just think if we were to talk about this together to people, you wouldn’t see this one- sided response.

How is this not justifying her choice to cheat again, exactly ? What is one sided? That she made a choice, without your involvement and now expects you to accept responsibility for that choice as if you were involved in that decision? Facts don't require an explanation and they aren't up for debate. Manipulation attempt again.

Figuring out why this happened and learning tools and coping mechanisms is what will heal us.

This did not "happen," she put energy and effort into making it happen. Why did she do that is the real question.

Why does she talk about, you this and you that, but suddenly it becomes about healing "us." She is trying to give the impression this is an "us" problem . It is a "her" problem. You were in the same M, but did not cheat. She can't stand that fact either.

He’s trying to fix me separately and in turn, fix our marriage if that’s what we want

She has to fix her. He is a resource to aid her. Only she can "fix," her. The outcome of the M is independent of if she can "fix," herself. BTW the M being reconciled is not a "given." You do, and should, have doubts about taking another risk with her. What is she willing to do to make you feel safe ? Actions, not manipulative words, are the only way to gauge her sincerity.

if that’s what we want

It is about what you want now. She made her choice already. If she was so unhappy with the M and her life why did she not seek help and/or end the M ? Hint: She was fine. Remember cognitive dissonance. Somehow she still wants to be the "good" person in all this. She can be again, one day, but right now she has not lived up to the integrity and character standards that she expects from others. She has no authority on character, integrity or authentic living.

I am trying not to sound too harsh to your wife, but I see a lot of words and not a lot of actions. She isn't even close to remorse. It is mostly about how it impacts her. As are borne out of selfishness to a degree where even the people they profess to love and care for aren't a factor. Her temporary indifference to you allowed her to cross those boundaries when she wanted to.

She can put all the psychobabble she wants into texts, but she choose to believe a bunch of lines from a player and idealize there to be a future there (Millionaire, right?). Now she is retreating trying to minimize the damage so she does not end up with less than she had before. She believes she can manipulate you back. She is deeply afraid of losing everything. She gambled and she lost. Now there is no one willing to fight for her and fall victim to her manipulations.

Anger/Rage are secondary emotions and one of the few that most men feel comfortable putting forward. I would tell her that and explain there is a mountain of pain, grief, fear, etc. Even her counselor would likely have to agree with that.

What has she really done, apart from finding an IC that tells her what she wants to hear, to help you feel safe ? Has provided a NC letter? A timeline? Offered to be 100% accountable for her time. Allowed you access to all her devices and accounts ?

These things are important. Any resistance on those things indicates she really isn't up to the task of repairing a M that she broke. Anything previous to this were dents that could be hammered out. Her A broke it to the point that a new one will have to be rebuilt.

Keep reading and posting.

Do not share this site with her. Delete it from your history.

She is not remorseful. She would use this site to learn how to pretend to be remorseful. And you're being lied to enough.

Her texts to you...

It's like she's giving a "how to" lesson on blameshifting and minimizing.

Right when i sent that message to her about being on a forum I though, dammit shouldn’t have done that. I didnt tell her the name of the site and I don’t think she would even know what to look for. So that’s good I guess. And yes I’ve been deleting my history so she doesn’t see all the lawyers I’ve been looking up and all the Bruce Springsteen I’ve been streaming.

Apart from finding an IC (which was my same IC that helped me through my work stress/binge drinking phase in ‘17) and crying on my saying she wants to die for what she has did-

She sent an unsupervised message to the hotshot CEO she was boning. Then said she deleted all messages they ever had together on all types of social media, probably so I couldn’t find out what REALLY happened and how long. And then she said she block him everywhere so he can’t contact her. She did give me the passwords to all her social media and email, however when she left this weekend on a bachelorette party (her dying friend’s) I asked her to hook up her iPhone to her MacBook so I could see if she would try texting the dude again or the bullshit she was probably going to feed her close friends- she refused to do that. She refuses to do a timeline. And she said I already know exactly everything that happened. She actually get pissed off at me if something pops up in my head and ask her about what, when, where, and how because “we’ve already been over that and we need to move past this”.

I am rally sorry man.

It doesn't sound like she would do anything to save the M does it ? She is not even doing the bare minimum. She is still hung up on herself and is self destructing. Get yourself and your kids out of her way.

You, my friend, need to look up the 180 and practice it. Keep engaging attorney's and explore your options. It is possible that you could go stay somewhere else for a few days ? I think some time away from her might do you some good.

She doesn't get the ramifications yet and coming home after her trip will be interesting. Of course all of her friends will hear "her" victim version, not the truth. Everyone will figure out the truth on their own. Because it does require explanation. Access to her devices is a means for her to earn your trust back. If she isn't willing to do that then I don't think your changes of reconciliation are that great.

Keep focusing on yourself and take care of your child. Read up on the 180. The healing library has some great articles and can help you get started. You need to detach and work with an IC to regain your sense of yourself.

FWIW while with your attorney(ies) ask them about alienation of affection. Also do what you can to recover those messages she deleted. Keep them in a safe place. Outside of the OM girlfriend is there anyone else you could expose to that might counsel her to "slow her roll." She headed to a D and fast. Her actions are no of a WW that wants to rebuild her M. It is a WW that wants to sweep in under the rug so she can do it again and expect the same result.

ETA:

She sent an unsupervised message to the hotshot CEO she was boning.

She did not want you to read it because it likely left the door open to a future A or continuing the A in some way "underground>" Again I am really sorry. She needs someone to get her to see the path she is on will lead to her wrecking her life. Yours on the other hand is still up to you.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 3:43 PM, July 24th (Wednesday)]