SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I posted this on reddit and a kind soul referred me to this website. I hope I can find some clarity in your perspectives and thoughts.

I'm crushed. We've been together now for 14 years and have been married for 6 of those years. We lived in different cities 3 hours apart during our 2-year engagement and for about 4 months at the start of our marriage. We're now 38 and 37. In marriage we have had to deal with so much. We have been infertile as a couple for the past 5 years. We have had multiple failed IVF cycles spanning probably $50k in expenses. This has been a huge burden and life changing experience for us both. We have looked at it in the best light we can and it has brought us close. Now for the rift that has come in...

I recently found old messages between them covering the engagement and early marriage period of our lives. The short version of this is that she got too close to a male co-worker and fell in love with him during our engagement period and it continued into part of our marriage. The relationship my wife says was limited to kissing, handholding, hugging, deep emotional connection, but in her own words (from her communications) was a very deep love. She vehemently states that there was no sex. During this period I saw her maybe one weekend every 3 weeks and talked to her every day. Her contact with him continued during marriage and ended after about 6-8 months after our marriage started (we moved in together 4 months in).

I read through emails and chats covering about 2 years of heavy communication between them, starting with innuendo/flirting and ending with statements of deep love. Of all the communications I read and had to absorb, several are just unfathomable and I am really struggling with. They are below and these all occurred after we were married.

- While she and I were on our honeymoon she emailed him with statements like: "i've been thinking about you a lot. Can't wait to see you!"

- In a pseudo-goodbye about 4 months after we were married and in her weird attempt to push him away, she emailed him with statements like: "i can't image my life without you", "i feel like we just get each other in a way that i have never experienced", "i'm not able to fully give myself to you now, i'm definitely not closing the door on the possiblity that this may change in the future", "i think about looking into your beautiful eyes, holding you hand, laying next to you, kissing you, just sitting next to you and watching tv together. i so badly want to keep on doing these things with you. i think about you from morning to night and frequently dream about you."

- That was followed up with: ""If I had known that the last time we were together would be the last time I would get to see you or talk to you, I would've done things a little differently. I would've hugged you a little tighter, kissed you more frequently, held your hand a little longer, looked into your eyes a little longer, and told you how much I truly love you. You have now become the only guy I've ever cried over."

- More than 6 months after getting married she emailed him with statements like: "Just wanted to say hi and let you know that I'm thinking about you! :) xoxo" and "Just so you know, I think about you in more ways than one..."

Now I'm here and I confronted her with all this, first asking for her to tell me the truth and come clean. She gave her version of the events/relationship and they really do lack any explanation of her feelings and that she was a willing participant in all this. It was like this guy had been very aggressive in pursuing her and would push the envelope here and there and she would correct him, continue being his friend, and then it would happen again. It really painted her as a victim in some way. All the post marriage stuff was not even admitted to in this part. I then asked her to reconcile all that with the statements above, she just couldn't remember it and chalked it up to the time elapsed and her forcing it out of her memory. She can't remember loving him as strongly as she says in these statements.

I love her and I want to start a family with her (we have been considering egg adoption before all this). It was 6 years ago. I think we are a different couple with all the difficulties we had to go through in infertility. We are close. I want to believe I can forgive. I am a very rational and forgiving person by nature and maybe I can get there with this. The above bullet items are insane though, it happened during our marriage and when we were in the same room. I read through the other subreddits and I know time etc seems to temper most peoples approaches. But she clearly loved someone at the same time she married me and continued that for some time. I'm at a loss. I want a family.

[This message edited by takeonhe at 4:43 PM, August 5th (Monday)]

Hi takeonhe,

Some of your post really resonated with me.

Especially the idea that while she is married to you, and thus presumably has some pretty major commitment to you, she seems to have marked this OM as "the one" - or something special that will unfortunately only ever exist in her mind.

.. or maybe it may become reality when ..

That shit fucks with your head.

I have no answers.

Only sympathy.

I am so sorry you find yourself here. It sucks so much.

Your story really hits home. My WH had an EA with a woman starting 4 months into our marriage and they said very similar things to each other. Expressed love for each other, etc. I also got the -

...she just couldn't remember it and chalked it up to the time elapsed and her forcing it out of her memory. She can't remember loving him as strongly as she says in these statements.

Honestly, I think in my case it's a bunch of bull. I think they do truly believe at the time that they are deeply in love. Not sure that means they don't also think they're in love with us, but they still believe at the time it's love, and they just don't want to admit it. The "I don't remember" stuff has been a common thing with my WH, to try and get out of telling the truth. I have caught him lying multiple times now.

If you want to continue with her, then she needs to dig really deep and give you some true answers. Don't accept the rugsweeping.

Best of luck to you.

Another "I don't remember"

What a crock.

File and have her served. Tell her you can't stand not knowing the truth so you're just going to call it quits that way not being with her every day won't have you dwelling on the unknown. And then watch her memory magically return.

Takeon,

Tell her to sit down and write out a complete timeline for the affair, put in all the details.

Then take her for a polygraph to verify her timeline.

Adults don't just stop at kissing when they are alone together and with that level of passion.

Does the OM have a wife or SO you need to speak with them.

If the OM is still at the same workplace you need to contact HR.

At the time in your love life together that she should have been most passionate for you, she was engaged in secret polyamory, accepting your vows of fidelity but lying about hers. No matter that she eventually set it aside, that does not really affect the emotional equation. Her mind was filled with him even while on your honeymoon. Honestly, I really feel for you....

Are you sure it was not a full-fledged PA? And does that really matter to you given the affirmations of love? Has she made similar declarations to you? Then? Lately?

In the end this is all an unwelcome exercise about finding out who she really is as a person, and whether you can accept that person as a life partner. Insist she dig deep in IC as a start. The book “How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair” by Linda Macdonald also will help you both.

[This message edited by Odonna at 6:12 AM, August 6th (Tuesday)]

A bunch of thoughts...

1) Logic won't heal you. Immense feelings of grief, anger, fear, and shame get dumped on you when you find your partner has cheated. My belief is the fastest way to heal is to let the feelings in, because that's how they get released. If you've used logic all your life, that's a new skill. A good IC can help.

2) The A may have been over almost 6 years ago, but it's brand new to you, and it's traumatic. This is typically not at all something than can be brushed aside.

3) I'm not familiar with LDRs, but I can imagine unique frustrations. Other than possibly that, you should know that your W's/W2b's A was about her, not about you. It was her failing, not yours or your relationship's.

What is your W doing to heal?

4) R takes 3 'healings': BS heals BS; WS heals WS; together, BS & WS heal/build/rebuild the M.

You can progress in R while you both heal, but you can't R unless both of you are willing to do the necessary work (hence my question about your W's healing activities).

5) R is eminently possible when both partners do the work and want to R.

6) I strongly suggest reading NOT "Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. You prbably won;t be able to read it closely, because it may bring you face to face with immense pain, but at least skim it.

7) I also suggest reading the Healing Library - https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq.asp.

8) I also strongly suggest reading https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp? I suggest printing it out, if it makes sense to you, and asking your W to read it.

I strongly recommend not sharing SI with your W for some time.

9) You can heal from this. There's no doubt about that. Be kind to yourself right now.

Drink lots of water and as little as possible of anything else. Sleep when you can. Move your body/exercise.

And, again, have faith in yourself to figure out how to heal.

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:36 PM, August 5th (Monday)]

I love her and I want to start a family with her (we have been considering egg adoption before all this). It was 6 years ago. I think we are a different couple with all the difficulties we had to go through in infertility. We are close. I want to believe I can forgive. I am a very rational and forgiving person by nature and maybe I can get there with this. The above bullet items are insane though, it happened during our marriage and when we were in the same room. I read through the other subreddits and I know time etc seems to temper most peoples approaches. But she clearly loved someone at the same time she married me and continued that for some time. I'm at a loss. I want a family.

Reasonable, doable goals... IF you're dealing with an honest person. Unfortunately, you're not. In order for reconciliation to work, BOTH partners need to work at it, and honesty is the foundation. She knows fully well what happened. Cheaters go to a lot of trouble to hide their tracks. It takes effort. She remembers.

Your WW needs to decide if she values you and your marriage enough to be truthful with you and fix her shit. And I'll be honest with you, as the parent of grown children, I wouldn't begin a parenting relationship with someone I couldn't trust. It's hard work. And in terms of wanting a family, her clock might be ticking, but it doesn't sound like yours is.

She is lying to you. She remembers everything. She left things with this OM open for the future. I would bet they had sex, especially since she talks about lying next to h I'll m and thinking of h I'll m in more ways than one. That's some major innuendo. Adults don't just kiss and hold hands if they are in love. Sorry, but, no.

You can't forgive what you don't know. Ypu can't R if she's still lying and has secrets.

Man that hurt just reading it.

She told him "I've been thinking about you a lot" on your honeymoon?? DAMN!!!

If it were me I would divorce her as it's pretty clear you have no clue who this woman really is.

Marriage is extremely tough, throw this bullshit into it, at the very beginning of your journey, is this really someone you want to go through life with?

I know you love this woman, but based upon what you've written it doesn't appear that she knows what love really is.

She's a "victim"? Yeah pull the other leg and it plays jingle bells.

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. Please do NOT rug sweep this. You are correct when you say "she clearly loved someone at the same time she married me".

I know you want a family, but based upon what you've laid out do you really think she's a safe partner?

takeonhe:

Sorry you are here. This is all new to you although your WW has known all along. You are lost and frustrated. You have received great advice to insist she dig deep in IC to find out her why’s. You get to decide if the M continues. You could tell her she must take a polygraph. A timeline may be helpful. But I think what is really galling you is the disrespect for your relationship and M she was showing so early on. Your WW was clearly not a victim. She pursued the guy and confessed her love to him. How does she truly feel now? Are you plan B? If it were me I would take the most egregious, hurtful emails and blow them up and post them on the refrigerator and all over the house in plain sight so she has to see her words everywhere she looks. If she tears them down, put them up again until she addresses how hurtful those words are to you. She should have to face those words everyday until she satisfies you that she is committed to your M. Good luck.

I'm sorry you are here, but you've come to the right place and you'll get a lot of very good advice.

Gently, from what you described it's just not likely that it was only an EA and not a full-blown PA. It went on for a long time and obviously spent time together. Adults don't do that and just hold hands and snuggle each other as she claims.

Your WW is doing what all waywards do - she's lying and minimizing in an attempt to make it all go away. And from what you've written you seem like you'd like to be a willing participant in an epic rugsweeping of her A. That is not going to lead to a successful outcome, whether you end up deciding to D (divorce) or pursue R (reconciliation).

Is she still in contact with this OM?

Is the OM married? If so, you should inform her right away about what's been going on.

You should ask your WW to provide you with a written timeline of everything that happened between the two of them.

Hang in there.

You saw her one weekend every 3 weeks and she saw him every day since he was a co-worker. With the emotion and attachment she expresses in her messages it almost a guarantee they had sex and everything leading up to it and probably often. She also lied to you the whole marriage. That's as bad or worse than infidelity for most people.

You are in love with who you thought she was, but she was never that person. It's obvious that it is in her character to cheat when she was cheating during the most special and closest period of your marriage. I'm not sure how you get past that and I don't know why you would want to. I'd be filing tomorrow.

takeonhe: Man, I’m right there with you! My SCWW (Serial Cheating Wayward Wife) started dating a guy in less than a year after we were married. But your wife communicating with HIM on YOUR HONEYMOON!? That takes some massive knockers! My WW and I have been married for 30 years and she has been with/chasing him for 29 of those! So, I get that you love this woman, but she has no sense of boundaries. She crossed the marriage boundary when you were engaged, then again after marriage, and if this OM is married, she crossed over his marriage boundary. I can tell you first hand, Friend, I understand how much that hurts! It’s humiliating, insulting, embarrassing, and downright painful, and all from the one person on this earth you are supposed to be able to confide in and trust to have your back. Total betrayal from her and she never intended to keep her vows.

So, where do you go from here? Everyone has given you good advice. Please listen to it and consider it all. I suggest you get some physical and emotional distance. I suggest you follow Catwoman’s advice on doing the 180. You will find it in the Healing Library. When my wife and I separated, it gave me the time and quiet I needed to think and sort out the information I had taken in, and time to think about what I want to do next. You may discover that you will be fine with or without her. Since there are no children involved, have her leave the residence. Where she goes is her problem, not yours. If she hadn’t cheated (yes, flirting with another man and communicating those things is cheating!) you wouldn’t need her to get out. I think that time and space you will get will be very valuable. Start there.

BONUS: She gets to tell whatever story she wants to her friend why she’s not sleeping at her home with her husband. If she truly loves this guy, she may go to him. If so, you will have your answer as to how she feels about him vs you.

Why did she marry you while she was (is?) so enamoured with this other guy? Is he already married?

This next question is going to sting but it has to be asked because ultimately you need to get to the truth, especially given you’re so set on wanting a family.

Is there any possibility that she sabotaged your IVF attempts because she’s still holding out hope for him?

Before you conclude that she couldn’t be that callous, if you read other stories here you will find there are literally no depths to which cheaters wont stoop. Just the fact that she was messaging him while on honeymoon with you demonstrates her very screwed up mindset.

I want a family.

Takeonhe

Wny in the world didn’t your wife marry the love of her life boyfriend instead of you? Have you asked her?

My money is that you’re more stable and would be a better family man than the other guy.

Don’t bring an innocent child into this. Your wife failed the marriage “stress test” overwhelmingly. Find a new woman and start a family with her. There must be better women than your wife out there.

takeonhe,

For a lot of us, when discovering infidelity, our first reaction is to rug sweep, ignore it or quickly fixing it so that we can go back to before D day, to our marriage and to the spouse that we love so much.

Except that it doesn’t work. You could try to forgive, and forget all you want but it doesn’t work.

You will need to address infidelity heads on. All posters in your thread experienced infidelity and, even if their posts are hard to read, you should pay attention to those posts.

You can get out of infidelity either through R or D. When someone creates a new thread such as yours, we analyze the Wayward Spouse (WS) behavior and try to determine whether R is possible.

Your WS appears to be dismissive of what she has done and doesn’t seem to display any remorse.

It takes a seriously broken individual to cheat during engagement, wedding and honeymoon.

I suggest that you detach from your WW (do the 180), see a lawyer and proceed to D.

If she changes her behavior , gives you a complete timeline of what happened, show remorse, then maybe you can consider R BUT after divorcing her and starting anew.

Saying marital vows while lying and cheating is not really a marriage is it? She vowed to cherish and love you, fidelity, in front of your family and hers while cheating. You never had a marriage.

I wish you strength. Post often, you will have support here.

I would quietly arrange to get your wife and her "true love" in the same room together, congratulate them on the new life that they will now be free to share, hand Romeo the $50,000 bill for the fertility treatments, then scoot my ass right out the door towards a better life that would undoubtedly include an honest woman with whom I could raise that family that I've always wanted.

I know it is difficult, but consider it.

You sound like a great guy. You deserve the best and I hope you get it.

We can give you lots of advice but there really isn’t anything any of us can suggest until she stops lying to you.

Take, if you do go through with the egg adoption and have a child, your marriage will take a back seat possibly even for years. You and your WW will be too busy to give the marriage the same amount of time and effort. It's inevitable. If your WW can't even own up to the fact that she was in love with OM, what's to stop her from reaching back out to him or to falling in love with someone new once she feels like your marriage is getting stale? She clearly didn't learn her lesson the first time if this is her response.

What you're asking us isn't to R. It's to rugsweep and rugsweeping doesn't work. At best it buys you years of feeling anxious, sad, cheated, and waiting for the other shoe to drop. It may fade into the background for a bit but it will always come back to haunt you. I've seen people be haunted by not having the truth for DECADES. At worst it buys you a second DDay. And since you're trying to add kids to the mix, I think the latter is even more likely for you if you accept things as they are.

You're being given a rare opportunity where if you had to D, you could make a relatively clean break. Think very hard about whether you're okay with rugsweeping, dealing with this internally, and facing another DDay down the line. That doesn't mean you should file for D right away but you can hold her accountable for being in love with OM and lying about it. "I don't remember" when faced with her own words expressing deep love for him doesn't cut it. And why should you believe it was never physical? They met up in person. Adults in love do not just chat, giggle, and hold hands like children when they're deeply in love with one another. They have sex. Sorry, but she did it and honestly, I'd even argue that most people can't fall deeply in love with someone else unless sex has already happen. It's possible but not likely. It's even less likely when it's from the mouth of a proven liar with a secret boyfriend.

You have the upper hand here. You deserve better than the lies she is telling you. You deserve better than rugsweeping. You deserve faithfulness, honesty, and transparency. But you're going to have to play ball and get tough in order to get it from her or from someone else.