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I would like some insight into what the people of SI think of the pick me gas me. What is it? How to know you are doing it? How to avoid it?

To me it means that the betrayed is more worried about being wanted by the WS than about the damage caused.

Infidelity feels like the ultimate rejection, and it really is, but it's not about us being rejected, it's about the issues the WS has.

A BS wants to be wanted more than the AP, so all of the other issues get ignored until the BS feels like they the are top priority of the person who hurt them.

The first focus should be making sure one is out of infidelity and to start the healing of self -- and not worrying about whether or not their WS 'likes' them.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 12:23 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]

It's when you subjugate your emotional needs for stability and comfort in the immediate aftermath of the trauma. It is generally not favored here or anywhere but it is pretty common reaction as there are subconscious, almost involuntary elements at play. It is only a problem when the behavior continues and it evolves into rugsweeping by allowing your fear to control and subdue your emotional need to process. Basically, you are trading freedom for stability.

Although it is not the same as Stockholm Syndrome, the mental processes and reasons therefore are similar. In effect, it is the need to gain a bit of footing in landslide of shit. You are trying to get stability to begin to deal with the different levels of trauma. So you initially sacrifice taking care of yourself and your needs by attempting to "win back" your WS.

Good cop/bad cop method exploits this reaction to with success.

[This message edited by KingRat at 12:31 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]

In simpler terms, the pick me dance is what we do to have the WS pick us over the AP. We might start cooking his favorite meals, bringing home flowers, dressing sexier, losing weight, complimenting them, laughing at their jokes, praising them in public, the list is long and varied. But essentially, it's what we do when we're trying to win him (or her) back. We set aside our own pain and shock and hurt and anger and focus on trying to put things back to how they used to be.

In the end, it never works. It's humiliating. It's totally crazy when you stop and realize you're working your butt off to make it up to someone who has betrayed you in the worst possible way.

But, alas, alack, it seems to be human nature because a high percentage of us who didn't find S.I. soon enough probably did it.

I think I misunderstood the term. I do find myself guilty of a lot of those things. Thank you for the responses

To me the list is broad but in a nutshell,If your trying to make Them happy or appease them you are doing the pick me dance

Peace

The reason the "pick me dance" doesn't work is it makes you look weak. This lowers your status even more and makes the AP look stronger and more attractive.

It always has the opposite effect the BS thinks it will.

I believe its another form of codependency. Most people won't even know they are doing it because it's a behavior they learnt at a young age.

It gets really crazy/emotionally damaging when the WS tells the BS that the BS is the reason for the infidelity. "I did it because you gained 40 pounds, sex with you is boring, you leave the house a mess, your cooking is terrible." So the BS bends over backward to try to appease their WS by going on a crash diet, buying sexy new clothes and trying to act like a porn star in the bedroom, running around like crazy trying to kept the house picked up, and signing up for gourmet cooking classes, all in an attempt be "better" than the affair partner and get their WS to dump them.

It always has the opposite effect the BS thinks it will.

I’m not advocating the pick me dance, but I don’t think it ALWAYS makes the BS look weak and the AP stronger and more attractive. I guess maybe if the wayward is still in a fog and comparing BS to AP.

I definitely did hysterical bonding with the sexy lingerie and crazy sex. I don’t feel humiliated at all. It was my initial response to what happened, and honestly, it was amazing after years of no real sex life. I don’t think my WH in anyway thinks I’m now weaker or less attractive. I think the opposite is true, especially with the attraction. Maybe it’s because his affairs were primarily online, but I think he pretty quickly realized the real thing is way better than virtual.

I should add that other than saying we were disconnected (which was BS and I quickly realized that), he never blamed things on me, my weight, my cooking, or any of that superficial BS.

[This message edited by landclark at 9:23 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]

To add to the excellent responses so far-

I would say that obviously it's not necessarily a sign of codependency or weakness to do nice things for your spouse, even during times of disagreement and conflict, but...well, needless to say, an A throws that off-kilter in a huge way that goes beyond "disagreement".

For me, it's complicated, because an A can't *erase* a person's past. Not exactly, anyway. The rub is that the person that cheats on you is, despite the pain, hurt, and anger, still a fully-grown person with their own professional achievements, degrees, charitable acts, and (presumably) other positive attributes. But the A does contaminate those attributes, throwing them into sharp, contrasting relief. Which in a couple of ways I'd almost feel is worse than them simply having been a horrible, irredeemable person from the start that you can easily break ties and make a decision on. You have to deal with the knowledge that the person with all those positive attributes (assuming they weren't just an artifice, which of course after an A you never truly know) is the same one that brought the (very negative) A into your life. That's a lot of cognitive dissonance to deal with, perhaps more so than if a complete stranger swooped in and started doing abusive shit to you rather than a loved one, and it is a part of why I feel the betrayal aspect of an A stands out above all other forms of life misfortune one can encounter.

It's like some night of the living dead shit, honestly. WSes are human, and I say "human" in the sense that they're not perfectly logical, consistent, machines, for both good and ill, and certainly there can be possible moments where a WS can almost "be their old self" again- loving actions, kind words, etc.- except for obvious reasons, you know that that can't be and will never be true again.

All this is to say pick me dance is (I feel) understandable. NOT that it is a good thing or that something you can encourage. Just that it can and does happen (if its appearance on these forums is any indication), and that one is not weak in-and-of-themselves for feeling some of these patterns.

You've been heard, and I feel you. I can't imagine not wanting, at least even a little bit, to go back to "what once was" in such a situation, and in a lot of ways, I suppose a pick-me is an expression of that. But no matter how rich or powerful you are, you can't change the past. And for better or worse, you must go forward with conviction knowing that.

[This message edited by dri4039 at 9:40 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]

I’m not advocating the pick me dance, but I don’t think it ALWAYS makes the BS look weak and the AP stronger and more attractive. I guess maybe if the wayward is still in a fog and comparing BS to AP.

In my H case, I think it was the neediness of the OW that pulled him. I always made him feel that I'm a strong independent woman who isn't afraid to grow up alone so I will not tolerate cheating (surprise! I did). So when we separated he said it, I'm strong so I'll be okay. People have a need to be needed and sometimes I think I might have frustrated that need. But whatever, truth may be he is really in love with her, a masochist, a narcissist or whatever. He did not pick me and it hurts.

I think, in a lot of cases, the pick me is reflexive. Your cheater has not picked you. Not one stinking time in however long the A and lies continued. They have picked the AP, the A, and themselves for weeks, months, or years. I think your brain is screaming "Please pick me. For once, pick me". There is such an overwhelming feeling of abandonment after being cheated on. Of being completely alone. If only my cheater will pick me, it would ease my pain.

That's who we thought they were. What our marriages were. Our partner. The one person who was supposed to pick you each and every time.

My thought process was, 'She prefers someone else to me, so there must be something wrong with me. If I fix myself, the A goes away.'

My d-day hit when I was very strong emotionally, so I did the dance for a very short time (seconds). If the A had happened a decade earlier, I would have had a much, much harder time avoiding it.

It's a natural response for most of us.

IMO, the reason for avoiding it is that it won't get you the M you want. Doing the dance is almost necessarily an act of stifling yourself. If your WS responds positively, then you've essentially locked yourself into a life of stifling yourself or risking D. That's not a life I'd wish on anybody.

D-day is an opportunity to get honest with yourself and with your WS. That means taking responsibility for yourself and demanding your partner do the same. You can't heal yourself with being honest, nor can you heal your M.

Once you've been betrayed, that honesty pretty much means you have to ignore all the ideas you've absorbed about how to respond to a cheater.

If you're concerned about how you'll look if you do what you want, know that you'll be condemned by some people no matter how you handle it.

One of the first steps in healing, IMO, is to honestly take on the attitude of, 'I don't care what other people think of me.'

For me, the pick me dance was related to "the fog" that people discuss here, although on and after d-day I was not familiar with those concepts.

All I "knew" was that surely, once my wife realized what she had done and I expressed to her how much I was hurt (here begins the pick me dance), she would feel remorse and we could work on our marriage. Instead I was subjected to anger, insults, and lying.

Intellectually I understood that people behave this way when caught in behavior this severely wrong, so I figured it may take some time to get past the denials and lashing out. Surely, however, she would soon reach the point of remorse if I told her how much I loved her and how much I wanted to be with her and that I was ready to forgive her (the continuation of the pick me dance).

I think that most BSs do some sort of pick me dance when they first find out, especially if they have not experienced infidelity before. In those cases, the dance lasts until:

1. The BS figures out their spouse does not care and is not remorseful and stops dancing, which could happen almost immediately, or

2. Until the WS does show remorse and joins them on the dance floor.

In hindsight, my pick me dance lasted too long.

How do you know if you are doing it? If you are expressing love and forgiveness to your spouse and getting anger, lies, and blame shifting in return, you are doing the pick me dance.

How do you avoid it? Don't express love or promise forgiveness to someone who has cheated on you and is still giving you anger and lies, and blaming you for their infidelity. Much easier said than done.

Once you make the statement

" I forgive you NO MATTER WHAT" it gets worse from there. How the hell can you reconcile with what you do not know happened.

That gives all the power to the wayward spouse.

But unfortunately, while still stuck in the denial stage, this is what comes out.

Forgiving is separate from Reconciling. Either one can be done without the other.

No matter what, though, giving power away will delay the BS's healing and increase the BS's pain.

There are lots of ways to give power away, including by forgiving before forgiveness is earned or by agreeing to take the WS back with conditions that fit one's sitch or by taking D off the table.

The way to keep one's power, I think, is to understand one's options and make active, mindful choices about the options one pursues.

The Pick-me dance comes from a mind-set of the BS, where the BS thinks that the WS is a prize to be won.

'Do the Pick-me dance well, and you win the WS.'

This never works, because the Prize is ALWAYS the BS. The one with their integrity still intact.

If the BS does the Pick-me dance, they erode their self-respect, and their worth in the eyes of the WS becomes scorn.

The Pick-me dance also elevates the WS's self-worth, which in turn makes them feel even more superior to the BS, because they did not cave.

WS can smell Desperation a mile away, and desperation is not a good scent for a BS to wear. It exudes weakness and fear, which the WS will then exploit by carrying on their A, and disrespecting their BS's because they know the BS will not leave, so the WS can cake eat all they want.

Pay attention to every post on here. I jumped in with both feet and danced like a clown for many months too long before I found SI. I actually had a therapist that sort of condoned it. It took the new therapist several more months to snap me out of it. SI contributors here solidified my need to stop dancing and start standing up for myself like a person with a shred of dignity again. The pick me dance kept me stuck in a painful spiral and allowed my WW to continue treating me like crap. My WW is shi**ing her pants now that I'm acting like a man again.

think it was the neediness of the OW that pulled him. I always made him feel that I'm a strong independent woman

This was us. When we were dating, my fch said he admired my independence. He was tired of women who didn't have any and just went along with whatever he wanted. He also had a KISA complex (or CSAH as we say I'll m the womenz thread). So, after 14 years of independence, he jumped on the damsel in distress.

I don't think HB is equivalent to the pick me dance. At least, it wasn't for me. I was doing it consciously to win back my fch. I wasn't thinking that, if I stepped up my sexual game, my fch would find me more attractive than the MOW, or anything like that. It was more about reclaiming what was mine.