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Sadly I can speak to this issue with a lot of confidence. My WH and the AP worked together (still do) and they did the heavy sexting while at work for over 2 years, often while sitting in the same room, and often with her husband being present. As the OBS also worked with them, they did not have easy opportunity to take things physical, so, (and this is confirmed not by him but by a forensic analysis of his phone) 90% of the time that was "all" they did.

The other 10% of the time, yes, it was physical. Usually not full blown intercourse as they work in a very secure facility where they would have been instantly fired if they were caught, but they snuck kisses in hallways, brushed up against each other daily and would find a minute or two to feel each other up in some room with the door closed (no locks on the doors there so they had to do things that they could "move apart quickly" if someone were to start to open the door). And yes, they did have sex. The sex was more prolific when I was temporary living out of town as they would come to my house or hers when her husband was working and they were not. When I moved back and discovered the A and told the OBS, they switched to no physical contact but continued their sexting and talked about how long it had been since they were physical ect. They did meet a few times after work over the course of the next year, but did not have intercourse (but did everything else) as apparently that wasn't "as bad" in their minds. (Also confirmed by endless "longing" texts about sex etc).

My WH wasn't much of a gaslighter when caught - he was pretty much a confessor. Granted there was one instance of sex during their otherwise no sex period that he confessed to later (I had not read that period of time from his phone as I stopped reading it as the sexting disgusted me) and it happened once, after over a year of no physical contact. I did look at the post-sex messages and they confirmed it had been over a year before then, and that my WH was very filled with regret over it and said it would never happen again and apparently had stuck to that. The fact is, that unless the forensic recovery of his phone confirms it, I don't believe him, and likely never will as he has been willing to lie, do the whole false R routine, and be generally a morally repugnant person. Ultimately the lying and the other bullshit is worse - the sexting was so gross that the sex part of it seemed more normal to me...but I digress.

So yes, it can be a workplace A and not be physical for long periods of time - and even not physical at all. It's not likely, but it can be. In my case I doubt had the OBS not worked with them that it would have been as lacking in actual physical touch as it was.

Also note, I fully believe that my WH's A would have been a lot more like the quote below, but for the fact that their workplace is secure, and they cannot leave during shifts, and the parking lot - well to say it's not private is an understatement (huge lights everywhere, right next to the main entrance at a 24 hour facility where people come and go all day and night, with guards in eyesight range all the time, and where you would be fired for doing something like that) and we live about 2 minutes from his work so caught in traffic and all the other bullshit reasons one could come up with for not being home right after work woudln't fly:

All the sex happened at her place during lunch break, at her place by booking an afternoon and a day off and in the car. Yes in the car like teenagers. BJs and full on sex.

My WH admitted that when I was living out of town, that sex happened in his car on several occasions, but usually took place at her place when her OBS was at work because she had a newborn baby so her place was more convenient. Yeah - barf. I think the extent of their at the workplace contact was a hand down the pants and up the shirt and a lot of making out.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 11:24 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

That's actually so hard to believe it might be the truth..?

I know everyone says every affair is basically the same (and on some level they are) but a real person chose to have the affair and people are different, with different triggers and different reactions. I avoided any physical touch with my AP for the first few weeks because in my mind the minute I touched her *then* it becomes a "real" affair.

I wish there were easy answers. Only you can choose whether to believe him or not. And the harder question; can you go forward now without knowing whether you know the truth or not?

What it all boils down to is he is a lying liar who lies. I can't tell you how many times he has said, this is everything. Wrote a complete detailed timeline twice (covered in lies of omission). He bought me a new ring to build a new marriage a few months ago that is now tainted just as the other one was. You can't build a new marriage without trust, respect, and honesty for fucks sake.

Damn right! He had many opportunities to come clean and instead he kept right on lying!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he give her a bag of Gummy Bears, after d day, and after he was supposed to be no contact with her? And didn't he leave a note with these Gummy Bears, or tell her, that he wanted to eat them out of her vagina?

There's no way this wasn't physical. Unless I have him mixed up with a different Wayward spouse. If I do have him confused with somebody else question then my sincere apologies. My sincere apologies for so many different things. Because that is such a disgusting thing to have to type.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:46 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday)]

@hellfire

Almost. He said he wanted to eat them off her vagina in their role play during the affair. 3 months later he left them on her desk when we are supposed to be in R. He didn't leave a note as far as I know.

My husband got caught in a very graphic sexting affair with an ex on Christmas Eve last year that was 4 weeks into it when I caught him. Went from talking about training (she was a professional CrossFit athlete) to sexting and pictures in about 2 days.

The reason for this quick progression I believe is he had been engaging in his two decades long EA with another ex that ended a month before this new one. So...20 years of I love yous, intimate conversations etc so on. And he was in physical proximity with her for at least 10 times. Once he slept over. He admits to the emotional stuff, several make out sessions but no sex. No oral. No touching of asses or boobs or any other parts beyond kissing and hugs.

Do I believe him? He says for him the kissing etc was certainly wrong, you think?😬 But as far as he was concerned since he never had sex he wasn’t cheating. Yes. Truly fucked up thinking. Again...do I believe him? Almost 95%. I am a completely unrelenting inquisitor and to perfectly honest an expert level manipulator in the sense of getting information with a slightly softened voice, etc so on. I have come at him from every angle and with everything I have and his story has never changed. I spoke to her and Jesus everloving Christ she is stupid as a stump, maybe even more stupid. I got her to admit to a lot but she also maintains it would have been “wrong” to have sex.

So, is your husband telling the truth? Maybe. Is it possible it was all about the chase and power and thrills like my husband? Yes. Will you ever know for sure. No.

So now you need to decide like I did if you can live with that knowledge and if in the long run he is worth the effort. No one can answer that but you. I will be thinking of you and sending kind thoughts.

My WH (and the COW AP) CLAIM that after a year of heavy flirting, they only ever kissed. Then they felt so bad they stopped talking at all. I THINK that's the truth, but honestly believe had they met in one of their homes it absolutely would have been more than kissing.

So anyway, I want to believe that yes, you can have an EA with a COW without a PA, but I am certainly skeptical.

Almost. He said he wanted to eat them off her vagina in their role play during the affair. 3 months later he left them on her desk when we are supposed to be in R. He didn't leave a note as far as I know.

Whether there was a PA or not, this is just so fucking disrespectful. It's such an obvious nod to their A. This alone is deal breaker behavior.

My WH had a lot of car make out sessions like a damn teenager for 15-20 minutes at a time. They would meet at an abandoned parking lot, mess around and then he would come home. It was a COW and it took no time at all for it to progress to physical. The sex happened at her place when he was supposed to be somewhere else. I find it hard to believe that with the physical proximity that there would be no kissing, touching, nothing.

I don’t know, I wasn’t there. The gummy bears thing - wow. That’s terrible. I’m sorry. I’m sorry you are in this situation. Trickle truth is the worst.

The gummy bears thing crushed me. He said it was a joke and he left them on her desk while she wasn't there. When he sent her sweaty boxing pics, he told me he sent them at work so he could see her reaction. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't do the same with those. We were supposed to be in reconciliation, so he knows I wouldn't have found that joke to be very funny but he did it anyway.

By the way, I found this information out because I had an idea to get her gummy bears to send her a message that I knew what they had discussed. Sort of a fuck you gift. I pressed him on whether or not he bought these for her because I just know him so well. He eventually admitted it and thought someone at work had told me.

Layla, you know that's all bullshit. Parking the car far away is so he won't be seen. For the first month ater I discovered my fch's A, he would sneak off to his work library to email the MOW. He would park as far away from the library as possible.

Changing in the car is possible. My fch used to change while driving(!) so he wouldn't be late for his workout. But, changing in the car in the parking lot when he could change inside doesn't seem likely without a PA going on.

I think you need to stick with worst case scenario here unless proven otherwise.

I think you need to stick with worst case scenario here unless proven otherwise.

I do too - BUT - what does it matter anyway? To me, the physical aspect of my WH's affair was just another aspect of the deceit and lies. You've suffered enough hits that one more lie doesn't matter anyway in the grand scheme and you know it.

I'm not one to condemn someone, pretty much ever...so I'm not telling you to leave or to stay. The fact is, you will likely NEVER know what really happened (much like me - I know a lot but I will never know anything and I have come to realize that I will never really know my WH either).

So, what do you do with that lack of knowledge? The answer is simple: Nothing.

What you do now is make your decisions based on what you DO know. You know enough already to leave, and you have enough of a history to justify staying...so stop worrying about what you don't know and focus on what you do and what you will do with that information.

I HONESTLY believe that waywards, just like how they re-write the marital history, they re-write their affair to fit the narrative they have decided is the safest. And then they believe their own "new truth." We have seen this actually play out on the wayward forum, with posters insiting it was never physical, or sex only once, only to find out a few weeks or months later they were lying to everyone.

I think your husband has convinced himself whatever he did do was not physical. This is the script he and the AP probably agreed on and now its his truth.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 5:09 PM, December 4th (Wednesday)]

@pinkpggy

I think this is exactly true. It explains how he was able to pass the polygraph as well. The only thing I know for sure is that time and time again, I've suspected there was more and it's come out to be true.

I can trust my gut. I can't trust him.

[This message edited by layla1234 at 1:34 PM, December 4th (Wednesday)]

The gummy bears thing crushed me. He said it was a joke and he left them on her desk while she wasn't there.

That's a lie. It's not a joke. It's a message. It's a gift made for her to remember the "good times" they had together. If he had any respect for you or R, he never would have given her anything and he definitely would not have given her an item that played such a strong role in one of their fantasy sessions.

I see a strong pattern of him only admitting to things you have proof of. That's probably part of why you haven't gotten everything out of him yet because he's quickly reaching things you have no proof of. Your gut is right! Keep listening to it.

I know. In my heart I've always known it was physical. It's a shame he couldn't just be honest with me. He's a coward.

This is the script he and the AP probably agreed on and now its his truth.

This is exactly what I thought. They had so much time to talk after DDay and even though I told him not to talk with her one on one, he did. I'm positive they were getting their stories straight. The fact that he is still honoring his promises to her over his wife and mother of his children breaks my heart into a million pieces.

I was wrong obviously but it took me a while to understand how to listen to what my wife *is* asking instead of listening to what I wanted her to ask.

My WW was very adept at this. She would answer questions I didn't ask because she didn't want to answer the ones I did. When I pressed her on it she would claim she didn't understand.

My WW committed adultery for 4 years, Layla. They travelled for work (arranged by my WW who was his supervisor). His place was 5 minutes from work. He called her every noon hour when he went home for lunch and after work when he went home. WW almost always stayed later to work. She went to his place at noon and after work whenever he wanted her to. For a good part of the adultery she and he were working on a split shift which meant her work day was over at 2:30pm. While mine was over at 5:00 when I left work on time. I travelled a good amount of time which meant I was away overnight or home later in the evening a lot. When the cats away the mice will play and play and play.

Workplace affairs are hard to detect. All the communication was through work channels. No cell, etc. No personal money spent, ever. No gifts, ever. No other activities, ever. Just wham, bam. He called she went. The only clues were her attitude and behaviour. However, through all that we went on long walks, holding hands in our pastures, lots of vacation, antique shopping, romantic couple stuff.

Workplace affairs are hard to detect, as I said. I also believe if there was sexting, pictures, etc. there was more - a lot more.

I don't understand how your WH wouldn't understand what was meant by sex or intimacy. I suspect the poly examiner wasn't very good. A good examiner would spend considerable time and effort to make sure there was complete understanding about definitions. That a hand job, blow job, fingers in vagina or even just over clothes are physical just as a PIV is. My poly examiner went over this thoroughly. A misunderstanding should not happen with an experienced, competent examiner.

Yea, I don't know. He set up the poly and I came up with the questions. I never communicated with the examiner and I should have. He went by himself. I did get the report though.