SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is a reminder that Betrayed Spouses are not to throw 2x4’s in the WS forum. Please post respectfully. Not doing so may result in loss of posting privileges in this forum.

What is keeping her with you? Meet the needs that keep her with you. It's the ultimate risk of setting her free. Does she need financial help to get her feet under her, with a profession that allows her to be able to take care of her children and walk away from you?

Her staying, and her not talking to you represents a form of bondage she feels with you. Find out what she needs. That would demonstrate true remorse instead of just claiming that you're remorseful. To me, my husband doing this would truly show me he's remorseful; he wants my happiness even if it means I leave him and seek it elsewhere.

Commenting from what Mrs. Walloped said. I also get a hinky feeling when I hear remorseful from a poster I am not familiar with. But, on the other hand I do consider myself remorseful and have said I am, so on that point I have a different opinion. But, I do think the problem is not having a validator of sorts to go from.

So tell me what remorseful means to you.

I tend to think what Brave Sir Robin is saying is true and probably practical advice. My only reservation would be - understanding if you are really genuinely remorseful, why you want to save this marriage, and understanding what your plans for your own work would be. This process does take 2-5 years, so it's not overnight, so I am just hesitant to go straight to walking a hard line.

Maybe it will be easier for us to guide you on your own individual work, and we can focus on this other stuff of what to do with your spouse after that? After you have had some time to examine your thoughts in a group environment. If you don't want BS to help with that, you can always put up a stop sign for those posts. Start another post just examining your whys. We can only help your side of the equation right now I think. If you do this work, it will be worth it no matter what the outcome.

But, on the other hand I do consider myself remorseful and have said I am, so on that point I have a different opinion.

hikingout, just curious, has your BH told you that you were remorseful or was that your own assessment?

I assure you that if you badger her in texts all day trying to be cute and open communication with her, she likely feels like you are suffocating her. Its what my WS did to me and made me want to shut down further and leave. She is traumatized. Traumatized people can easily shut down.

Infidelity is second to losing a child in terms of difficulty to cope with. You were curious, your BW hears she was boring and uninteresting. Even if you weren't as bad as x, y, or z she still is hurting on a level Waywards can't imagine.

What took you so long to leave your job?

[This message edited by NoMoreRugSweepin at 2:36 PM, December 9th (Monday)]

Well I have to say, claiming remorseful and stating your wife is wallowing just don't fit together. Saying your wife wallowing and not "getting over it already" is regret. Regret gets you nothing but selfishness.

Was the question answered if he left the job? I thought he was still there. Really for most BS they probably wouldn't even start Dday till you left the job and stopped seeing the OW. In which case if that was 3 months ago...Dday was 3 months ago, which is nothing.

Well. She is telling you and, it seems, showing you, that she no longer wants a relationship with you. Maybe ..believe her

You want a relationship. Is there anything she does that indicates she wants a relationship with you? Have you talked to her about divorce? You said for cultural reasons she won't pursue one - do you know this, or do you presume this?

Also. Your wife sounds very depressed and, perhaps, ashamed about what has happened. Does she have close friends? Maybe talk to them about helping her get help. YOU could talk to her as well, but it also sounds like she might resent it.

It just sounds like she is very depressed, which is the most important thing to deal with.

Zug, he is in the process of leaving his job,but says it takes 3 months to leave. He is 16 months out from dday. So, for at least 13 months after dday,his wife had to watch him go to work every day, and see OW. Is it any wonder his wife isn't further along in her healing?

[This message edited by HellFire at 7:33 AM, December 10th (Tuesday)]

hikingout, just curious, has your BH told you that you were remorseful or was that your own assessment?

I don't really know, actually. I don't think my husband really digs that much into the vernacular, so I am not sure if he would put it that way. I know he has been given a lot of apologies for very specific behavior, that he knows I have and continue to work my ass off on changes. He knows I know fully what I did and that I take 100% accountability for it. I can tell you I knew the difference when I stopped making it about me and what I lost and really took in what I did to him. When I read about remorse, and the behaviors associated with it - I know that is what I feel.

I think the problem with someone we are not familiar stating it that way, is how often to we hear from someone new who claims remorse but they are still defensive, they are still not empathetic? So, I wasn't really taking issue with your statement. I was surprised you don't know that you are remorseful though. I do understand that WS need to be humble and show humility, but I wouldn't think that you saying you were remorseful would be questionable.

I didn’t think you took issue with what I said. As far as you feeling remorseful, I like what you said. I was really just wondering how you go about figuring that out. For me, if I detach I would say that I am remorseful because that’s how I feel and I work hard at it, but in my regular frame of mind it’s very personal so I go through a question routine where I ask what am I doing, how is he feeling, am I actively showing him that I love him, and am I doing it right or enough, or what went wrong yesterday or where did I slip up and on and on. And all of that is pointless if he doesn’t think I’m remorseful. Not pointless, because I’m becoming a healthier and better person. But in the sense of our relationship.

I think the problem with someone we are not familiar stating it that way, is how often to we hear from someone new who claims remorse but they are still defensive, they are still not empathetic?

Oh, I agree. What I’ve seen is that the labeling of yourself by new posters can be a way to show that you’re great and it must be the BS who’s being unreasonable if R isn’t going well or if it’s a dealbreaker. It’s that defensiveness and the breaking of their walls hasn’t happened yet.

I can see what you are saying here. It is a constant vigilance to monitor your behaviors and it is very personal.

I guess I think about remorse as something you can't unsee. Once you really recognize how deeply you hurt the other person, that you understand how you traumatized them - you don't really forget that. When they are having their triggers or wanting to revisit questions, or whatever it is - you aren't feeling defensive or wondering when they are going to get over it - because you understand that you have changed them and you are causing whatever it is that is sitting in front of you. You are going to do whatever they need without question.

At some point though, I think some of that vigilance kind of becomes how can I be a good spouse to where we are in our life? It's less infidelity and more just marriage stuff. But, you are describing it in another way that I would as well.

From what I’m hearing I feel you had a full blown physical affair and that’s what Shes feeling too. Sounds as if your ready to through in the towel so to say.

If your not honest it will come back to bite you. If you really love her you won’t give up but will give her the closure she needs along with empathy, love and support, it’s easy to walk away but harder to fight for the love of your life after you’ve basically took her life from her. Best to step out of he box and put yourself in her shoes if you can and think how would you feel if it was you. I think that would give you a new perspective of what she dealing with..

No 2x4 here. Maybe just read this and really think about it from your wife's perspective. This will give you some insight into what is happening, and the long road ahead if you want to help her heal: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp

Why are her parents speaking to your parents? This is probably why doesnt speak to her parents, because she cant trust them...just a hunch. That doesnt seem very supportive and inappropriate.

I agree with Zug and I want to add. She will never truly "get over it"...especially if you expect her to. She has to decide for herself if this is something she can live with. It could take her years to come to that decision.

I cant help, but think that you believe her going to IC, is a way for her to be manipulated into rug sweeping this mess. My husband essentially tried to blame shift his not going to counceling and that I'm (the betrayed) was just as guilty for not going. Yeah, it's a lack of empathy.....so I could never expect remorse from such a creature.

Her not going to counceling is literally her way of healing. It was over 2 years from DD, that I decided to go to counceling and it was because I decided to divorce him. Saying "sorry" is not remorseful and I had enough...In his eyes I was depreciating real estate.

[This message edited by DashboardMadonna at 7:12 PM, December 15th (Sunday)]

its not about who you will be with.

its about who you will become.

work on that.

redhawk: I am so sorry you are in this predicament. I applaud you, though, for opening up and sharing all that you have so far. I am glad you found us.

In am a BS, and I wanted to give you my perspective. There was a time in my healing process (which I am still going through, by the way) when I didn’t want to speak to my WW. I didn’t return texts, wouldn’t answer the phone, nothing. I was too angry and hurt to have any interaction with her. Your W may be going through the same phase. Give her what she says she wants – space.

Meanwhile, continue doing what’s right: IC, getting a new job, planning family nights, sleep on the couch (if she wants you to), be open and honest with EVERYTHING. Share with her – via text – what you cover in counseling, the same with what measures you are taking to ensure this doesn’t happen again. Keep your communication to only the level she is comfortable with. If it’s business only, then it’s business only. She will tell you when she’s ready to get a step closer. Let her lead and call the shots.

NONE of this will guarantee your M will rebuild; but, if you don’t try, it for certain will not. She may be already checked out of the M. It may take a D for her to heal, and you two may or may not get back together. I know you thought about giving her a timeframe in which to make a decision of D or R. I can tell you that if you impute your timeline on her, the answer will be D. I understand that you, too, need to get on with your life, and that’s fair to you. If you get to a point where you cannot live with her being distant and not making any progress toward being healthy, it would be at that moment I would sit down and discuss D or R. Just be prepared that since you asked to talk with her, she will probably say D. Too, she may surprise you and want to stay with you, maybe not R at that point, but not to D.

It really is hard to say what’s going on in her mind – she probably doesn’t understand what’s going on in her mind. For the longest time, I couldn’t think straight. My emotions were all over the place. Her brain is revisiting all the memories that she thought were properly coded as warm and wonderful, re-evaluating them, and storing them now as something else. Her brain is a shambles right now. She needs plenty of space and rest.

We all want you to live a happy, healthy life. Post often and keep us up to date. And remember that here, you are not alone.