SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are not a doormat. Quite frankly probably over 90% of us make the statement that our wife cheating is an instant dealbreaker but in reality most of us don’t pull the trigger immediately

IThe key to what happens is the behavior of WW after DDay.

And your wife’s behavior sucks . And her leaving for the week end was the worst thing she could have done . Now on top of not knowing what really happened in the hotel and now this week end is not exactly reassuring right?

If she’s telling the truth she could easily take a major step in regaining some trust in less that an hour or two. But you’re not worth that to her, and she’s convinced she can get her way by stonewalling you .

I think a very often used saying is “you must be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it”. That’s where you are at I’m afraid because of your WW refusal to do what’s necessary

Can you suck it up not knowing if she’s been banging him before DDay and again last week end? Only you can answer that

If you have not read Neanderthals thread you need to. His wife adamantly stuck to her story and he knew it was not true. He told her no poly no marriage and then she confessed it all

It’s not easy. Everyone knows that. I hope you make the right decision

Brother, you don’t have to pull the trigger, she has already done that, twice.

BR, has hit the nail on the head.

Have her served at work D papers. It can be stopped at any time.

One thing the military has made me realise and live by is Responsibility and Accountability. She is showing none.

Time for her to show is. This is her exit A. She is gone. Sorry to say.

Buffer

[This message restored by Webmaster at 2:37 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:00 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Hugs to you.

This shit is so fucking hard.

Read up on the 180. It's in the Healing Library. It will help strengthen you.

This shit is so fucking hard.

Perfect quote from Hellfire. If it was easy, we wouldn't need sites like these.

I get that you can't pull the trigger today. That's okay. But what you must work on, and convince yourself, is that you WILL eventually get the strength to pull that trigger if things keep going along this path.

And you continue to work towards PULLING THAT TRIGGER. Look---if your WW pulls her head out of her ass before you get to that point, than great. I would bet that way more members here are pro-reconciliation over pro-divorce.....IF THEY ARE RECONCILIATION MATERIAL. That is what the members here are telling you...you can't reconcile with someone who isn't committed to doing so. From your WW's actions, she is stating this loud and clear. Is it permanent? Who knows.

I'm not a big fan of using the word 'entitled', but what each and every person here is entitled to is THE TRUTH. And if you need your truth through a poly, then that's just the way it is. It's not a cure-all, but it would sure go a HELLUVA LONG WAY if your wife was not only to initiate, but followed through with positive results. A poster mentioned that a WS should crawl through broken glass to help you. Yes, that is what remorse would look like....someone who wants to help you through your pain. It would be nice to see around here more often, but it is hard for someone whose wiring is fucked up enough to cheat on their family to all of a sudden find that level of empathy.

But I think that it is wrong to wait around and hope for it to happen. You deserve better than that. And when you do wait, hope, and pray, you slide into a state of limbo that is sheer torture. THAT is what we are trying to prevent you from doing.

Please look up user Limbo79.

He was living in denial for up to a year. Trying to make things work with unremorseful wife. You may find some similarities between you two. Then maybe you will find your inner strength to do what is needed.

I was married 25 years when my H had his second EA. This one he was going to divorce me.

Like many people here I thought I could fix it. I did not know about SI but I was had a great therapist. I was being calm and rational in my attempts to save our marriage.

My H was not remorseful. He paraded this woman in front of me. He openly communicated with her in front of me. Finally after a few weeks of this crap it came down to “her or me”. He chose me.

It was a lie.

Affair resumed a few weeks later unbeknownst to me. Complete false reconciliation. It my plan was 90 days. I needed 90 days to get my $ together just in case he left and did not pay me any $. We have children I needed to take care of and he was the breadwinner.

Finally after 6 months I had enough. Dday2 occurred and I was furious. False reconciliation is just another 2x4 the BS desks with. So I stood up to him. I told him I was divorcing him, he was free to go and be with the OW or anyone else he wanted to be with. Oh and he had to leave our home. Basically GTFO!

And I left the room. It was NOT a discussion. It was a statement of fact.

In that one move I restored my power and self esteem. And I quit his game. I left him no options. It was now either my way or the highway. And he could no longer negotiate or make any decisions about my future.

The hard 180 was my next move. I still don’t do his laundry and it’s been 6 years! He wouldn’t dare ask me either. I’m not his maid service any longer. I redefined our marriage.

Sometimes the cheater needs a dose of reality and a wake up call. The wake up call being the BS is not putting up with this crap any longer.

My wife feels:
Shame, not guilt. Sorry about causing pain, but remorseless for her actions. She has now admitted she has negative feelings toward marriage in general, but hasn't admitted she has them toward our marriage. She wants to live in a world where what she did isn't seen as wrong.
Those are some big fucking takeaways from MC. I think we both see what's going on here now.... Maybe just working up the stability to implement the inevitable with both of us on good terms.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 2:38 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:00 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Yikes, I'm sorry TIF. She sounds like a very confused and broken person.

My wife feels:

Those are some big fucking takeaways from MC. I think we both see what's going on here now.... Maybe just working up the stability to implement the inevitable with both of us on good terms.

Not surprising for someone who thinks women are entitled to have affairs. Don't be surprised if you get the "polyamory" talk next.

Doesn't sound like you will get the real skinny either. Your MC needs to either pull that out of her or cease being your MC.

There is no polyamory talk. There is nothing to be discussed. I am monogamous and possessive.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 2:38 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:00 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Shame, not guilt. Sorry about causing pain, but remorseless for her actions. She has now admitted she has negative feelings toward marriage in general, but hasn't admitted she has them toward our marriage. She wants to live in a world where what she did isn't seen as wrong.

This is exactly what I'm going through as well with my WW. I feel your pain and hope we both can work through this.

This0is0Fine,

Her revelations are very disappointing and, I am sure, are very frustrating for you.

Shame, not guilt. Sorry about causing pain, but remorseless for her actions.

I googled shame v guilt:

In contrast, guilt is linked to empathy and understanding other perspectives. ... Shame is a focus on self, guilt is a focus on behavior. Shame is, "I am bad." Guilt is, "I did something bad."

She wants to live in a world where what she did isn't seen as wrong.

On this forum guilt is typically compared to regret. I am splitting hairs, but I am truly struggling with her mindset. Her "guilt" is what forced her to confess to you originally. It seems that she is searching for some way to excuse her actions and she is trying to create a meme that has a chance to absolve her guilt/bad act/bad self, all in one conceptual swoop. She is certainly demonstrating selfishness.

I would suggest that you let her IC or friend try to work with her on this concept. I would not get into an argument with her on this obtuse rationalization and micro-splitting of hairs. You could just say, "I can't wrap my head around what you think." or "Whatever (with a smile)." Then walk away or change the subject.

Instead, you should think about serving her with dissolution/separation/divorce papers. Resign yourself to the prospect that she may be unhappy with her life for a while. Let her be herself, but tell her you can not be her husband with her mindset. That it would be setting you up for more pain and suffering. Let the consequences of her actions impinge upon her personal world where she is free to do as she pleases. Tell her that you can not be in a marriage without boundaries, and that crossing them will always be wrong in your eyes. She can then have the time for the divorce process to run its course to decide whether or not she wants to be married.

She does seem, however, to change her positions/thoughts from one day to another. (Right now I view that as a positive.) There could be a strategy to let her cogitate on her current position, and then see if she sticks with it.

If she holds to her stated mindset, I suggest that you adhere more strictly to the 180. No arguing, no anger, just a harder 180. She will get the message that you are not in sync with her preferred lifestyle of no responsibilities/obligations/morals/etc. She can live in a world where what she did isn't seen as wrong, but not with you.

It is still early in the long process of straightening out a mess like that in which you find yourself. Tomorrow may be a better day with clearer minds. Another day, perhaps a better revelation.

Sending strength and support.

Be rational, loving, empathetic, and if needed, maybe show a little compassion and patience as well, to be an example of how she should act toward you.

PassThis has some great advice and this one is a winner.

I can come across as a blunt hard ass in some of my posts, but that's not my intent. And I'm a big softie who tears up at movies (like Dances with Wolves at the end, gets me every time).

So I want to say this is important context offered by PassThis. The 180 is hard to do, and has a lot of subtleties to it. One of those is the need to balance "hard disconnect" with the "loving spouse" you've always been.

I assure you, I'm not a dick to my WW 99.99 percent of the time (editor's note: maybe that's part of the problem). I love my WW, just like you and the rest of the BH's on here.

I have been a hard ass with her when necessary. Not too long ago, she tried to weasel out of the polygraph with a complete "you're blowing up our marriage for this?!" meltdown. I continued to show her affection, but I also made it clear this was a line in the sand. She didn't cross it. She did the poly.

You can also lovingly detach from a partner who is showing you they lack remorse or that they are going to continue to stonewall you and are an unsafe life partner, especially one that ghosts you and moves out to an Airbnb without telling you why.

She told me she was taking the weekend because she was bone tired talking about us and trying to fix it.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:16 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:00 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

Well, all this has been rough on her.

She really needs to do something for herself.

Sorry for the snark, but the shit cheaters say is just ridiculous.

bone tired talking about us and trying to fix it.

Yeah she’s done so much. And worked so hard.

It’s amazing as pointed out above that she has the absolute gall to say this kind of thing.

She’s the dictionary definition of a wayward wife.

I'm not making excuses for my wife, her weekend and the TT she gave me after were not exactly "trust building".
If I'm to believe the MC and my IC (which I'm not taking their beliefs as the truth either), the affair is a combination of factors including the building anxiety of my wife processing her mother's suicide without me. Needing that emotional outlet but not having the emotional outlet with me. Because of that, the fights we have over it, and the seemingly nonsensical argument she is having about our marriage are really a reflection of the grief she has for her mother and her mother's failed marriage. She is trying to stand up for her mother to her father vicariously even though I haven't done anything wrong to her. Thus, when we have the fights, it's almost not even about what is happening between us, it's about her validating her mother's life that she has lost. This means to get to the core of our marriage, when the arguments arise we need to cut through the fog and complications to think about what we want for us.
Ok. Anyway, she's back to looking for jobs.
After/during a fight she had an email open on her work laptop and was writing an email to the effect of "This is my two weeks notice. I am leaving because I had an affair with a coworker and cannot be effective in my job." I told her to pump the breaks because at this time she was completely emotionally out of control and desperate. I understand that this is the time that I have been advised to put my foot on the accelerator and tell her to send the email. However, I had this terrible feeling that she was doing this not because she wanted to save the marriage or do something to help me, but just to get out of a corner she felt I had put her in.
The agreement from the beginning was not an immediate quitting of the job because she could ensure they are not in the same room 99% of the time. I said she could finish her current project as long as the boundaries were maintained. There isn't any sign such boundaries haven't been maintained. For financial reasons I wanted her to line up a new job before resigning her current job. She had sort of gone of the rails and was going scorched earth on herself, which isn't what I was asking for.
Not sure to take that as a sign she is serious, or a seriously good manipulator.

[This message restored by Webmaster at 4:16 PM, Wednesday, May 19th]

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 7:01 PM, Wednesday, September 16th]

This0is0Fine,

For a moment of reflection and thought,

I was thinking about your wife's family history. You posted that suicide runs in her family. Mom and grandmother both committed suicide. IIRC, you posted that she may be suffering with thoughts and fear that she might end up in the same way. That issue has to cause quite a load of concern that she has to deal with every day. She may well need IC therapy to get over those thoughts and feelings, which may be contributing to the "why" she is struggling now with "self." She has been in IC for anxiety disorder forever. Her actions have been counterproductive (for sure), but if she can get help and support to work through these issues, she might straighten out her why for her issues, including infidelity.

Without any excusing her for her bad acts, the weight on her mind and soul has to be extreme when dealing with 1) knowledge of family trait of suicidal women, 2) her anxiety disorder 3) concern about what her identity is, and how she can prevent her own depression/suicide (That is. literally, saving her life.), 4) how she could have fallen into limerence with the OM and developed an almost hysterical desire to pursue him, 5) how she could be "broken" and cheat/hide/lie/betray (That is saving her marriage.), 6) how she feels shame since she feels like "she is bad", 7) how she can not help but see how much pain and suffering that she is causing you, and, finally, 8) how she can balance all this and get healed from all of her troubles. I can see how trying to develop the optimal solution for a quadratic-like situation, not really knowing how to even start, could lead to anxiety and exhaustion. You have posted that she always needs a long time to make any decisions, which just burdens the situation even more. I think all those points could justify a "weekend off" to rest, recover, and think (as long as that was all it was). I tell my wife often that I need a weekend of rest to pause from the everyday chaos and to reflect on the strategic big picture (mainly business and non-infidelity issues). The time-out is like a brain reboot so that you start fresh, without memory corruption, for the new week, with energy and focus for the real problems (and developing/implementing related solutions) that lay ahead.

Sometimes, with my wife (current: no infidelity issues, but certainly health and other), I sit down for a moment and talk to her in a very calm way. I tell her that I love her, I care for her, that I empathize with her and all the troubles that she has, that I want to be happy together forever, that we will, together, overcome all of our issues (whatever they may be), and that I will always be there for her. Then I shut up. I make no demands, no threats, just factual affirmations.Typically, she then replies in kind. Sometimes, not often, I get an "I know." That short, quiet conversation solves nothing and provides no new revelations, but it sets/reaffirms the environment in which those actions/progress can be accomplished. I think that sometimes a shorter conversation about basic truths, principles, and affirmation of the "oneness" of our identities is more effective for maintaining the marriage than hours of discussion and argument. You could also think about it as, after affirming that the foundation of the house (marriage) is sound, then we can just concentrate on how we (together) fix the leaks in the roof (the un-existential threats of life/marriage). Of course, the timing/setting for all this must be either be very well selected, unless you can take 100% advantage of a spontaneous moment. Like I said, this is a two minute conversation.

Don't call me out that I don't know what may happen in the future. I don't. But my affirmations are true, to the best of my knowledge and belief, when given. I, or she, could get hit by a bus later today. My mind knows this, but my affirmations come from my heart.

These thoughts may be totally emotional, but I swear that they are certainly NO NONSENSE. They are sincere and an absolute expression of unselfish love. They are supported by my strength and convictions. I do hold my wife (as she does me) absolutely accountable for her bad acts (selfishness mostly, both) and call her out (too often she thinks). There is no quarter given by either side, but there is no war. As a result, we both know that the foundation (faithfulness) is solid.

Perhaps, if you feel like you can make some similar statement of affirmation to your wife, you might break through her clouded mind and begin to mitigate any damage to your marriage's foundation. With hope, maybe not a first, but eventually, (but soon) she might realize what she has, and is at risk of losing. If she can not/will not respond likewise to you and remains cold (beyond a reasonable time to avoid limbo), the answer is not what you were looking for, but is the truth. You can then act accordingly, decisively, honorably and without regret. I believe, this also allows the vindication of an action to file for divorce while she can't respond likewise to your affirmations. Remember that I am assuming that she is still being given the benefit of the doubt as a "lost, troubled soul" and not the "WB".

Sending hope, strength, and support.

NB: I not a psychologist, psychiatrist, sociologist, or therapist. I am just a guy (husband, father, grandfather) trying to live a good life, figuring things out as I go. I am expressing these thoughts as a case study, not as a recommendation. As always, please take any of this that is helpful to you, and ignore the rest. Only you know what is meaningful to you.

Now I will return to regularly-scheduled PassThis.

[This message edited by PassThis at 12:31 PM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

"This is my two weeks notice. I am leaving because I had an affair with a coworker and cannot be effective in my job."

This seems like showy self-flagellation for your benefit. She can quit the job without the drama. Others may have different opinions.