Cookies are required for login or registration. Please read and agree to our cookie policy to continue.

Newest Member: SaintAuggie

Divorce/Separation :
Torn

This Topic is Archived
default

 Clockman (original poster member #70128) posted at 2:41 AM on Thursday, January 2nd, 2020

Still torn.

I'm not sure if my W is "savy" or just broken. I'm pretty good at reading people and despite some doubt being cast onto me in the wake of the A, feel I know her well.

We've semi-silently coasted through the holidays. She came into my office the other day and mentioned that we should sign up for the "parenting after divorce" classes required by our state. I just nodded and then asked her how she was feeling. Her answer as she cried was that she's horribly depressed and lonely. I clarified and asked how she was feeling about our marriage. She just said that she thought I was filing after the holidays so it didn't matter. I told her I suggested we cool off over the holidays and that I was leaning towards filing but still couldn't shake glimmers of hope.

She's kept hinting that we might be happier apart but at the same time I can sense she's terrified of me being gone. She has these wild swings from being detached and cold towards me to then acting like everything is normal and seeming happy with me. I guess I'm not the only one torn here.

I feel I have the control now and am just trying to decide what to do. Last night at midnight I didn't give her a kiss. It was awkward for both of us.

I went to bed first and was nearly asleep when she joined me. I was still awake but she didn't know it. She cried herself to sleep.

posts: 82   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2019
id 8490363
default

nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 3:31 AM on Thursday, January 2nd, 2020

Clockman, flip flopping is normal. WSes cry and act miserable all the time even when they're the ones pushing for D to be with the AP. The cool, sad D is actually more common around here than the explosive fighting D. Not that WS don't play dirty behind the scenes even in the cold Ds that piss off the BS to no end but your idea that D is always this big, dramatic event full of arguing is not most people's realities.

You have to look at the facts: Your WW refuses to R with you. She has made 0 efforts to R or work out R since you made your desire to D know. She's repeatedly said that she thinks you two would be happier separated. She has actively taken steps towards D such as the parenting classes.

Your choice is quickly being taken from you. You no longer have the option of R. You could choose not to D but it seems likely that your WW will file instead because she has said she wants to D. Even if she doesn't, all you're left with is rugsweeping and living like roommates. Is that acceptable to you? Can you handle her constant misery and threats of D if you stay? Can you handle her lack of effort to R? Could you handle a new DDay when she starts getting her needs for intimacy met elsewhere? If not, it's clear that D is your only option and you should not hold off on filing.

posts: 5232   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8490378
default

HalfTime2017 ( member #64366) posted at 4:47 AM on Thursday, January 2nd, 2020

Clockman, you and everyone else is pretty good at reading people, until we aren't. We didn't catch our WWs losing touch and cheating, nor did we think they were capable.

Your WW is actively trying to divorce you. Just b/c she hasn't filed, doesn't mean she wants to stay. You've said it yourself. She is afraid of losing the financial comfort, and or it change for the kids, but nothing about that is about you or the M. She is actively hinting to you about a D, parenting classes, splitting to a separate account, coming up with Divorce topics to accuse you, even to stoop so low as to suggest you might harm the dogs.

I'm sorry Clockman, we, you, I, all on here never wanted to be here in the first place. I hope you reread what you wrote and what others have shared with you. If its not obvious, I hope it gets clearer for you. From the outside, its blatant that she lacks the courage to end the M, but that is what she wants. If you stay, you don't have a Marriage worth staying in. She will be resentful or cheat again. You may be resentful and life is just too short to waste more of your yrs like this.

posts: 1426   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2018   ·   location: Cali
id 8490409
default

sassylee ( member #45766) posted at 5:23 AM on Thursday, January 2nd, 2020

I often advise that the BS take a hard stance (like the 180) when challenged by the WS on dday. It’s because you often get the reaction you’re seeing from your WW. It shakes them out of that fantasy they’ve built in their head that we’re the monster and they’d be better off without our horrible ways. Suddenly they don’t want the AP and the marriage doesn’t look like the prison sentence they’ve made it out to be.

This might be the case with your sudden change of course by demonstrating your willingness to end the marriage. But - it is also likely she didn’t plan on you finding her notes and extra bank accounts. She’s been getting her ducks in a row and they’re not lined up yet. She could be trying to buy time until she’s implemented more deception to screw you out of what you deserve. You said she’s quite entitled lately. She won’t willingly part with “her” money - which of course she was only able to earn because you were doing the majority of the childcare duties.

If you are wavering on your resolve - just get the ball rolling. If you think you see a compete turnaround and you’re sure she’s not faking it - you can always pause the divorce process. But my fear is if you cave too soon - you’ll stop seeing the tears and submissiveness and you’ll be giving her more time to hide funds and create situations that could threaten your child custody percentage.

My R(eformed)WH had a 5 month EA in 2012
In my 7th year of R
“LOVE is a commitment, not an emotion. It is a conscious act of a covenant of unconditional love. It is a mindset and a thought process.” - BigHeart2018’s Professor

posts: 11459   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2014   ·   location: 🇨🇦
id 8490417
default

Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 2:08 PM on Thursday, January 2nd, 2020

There's a big difference between being friendly or nice and being cordial and businesslike and being an ass.

You can be cordial and businesslike, which means you probably don't discuss any subject deeper than the weather (unless it involves the children) and you don't exchange personal information and you don't kill them on sight. This does not mean you do not advocate for yourself, but it does mean you negotiate in a businesslike and professional manner. You can ask to think things through, or "get back to them" on other issues. These are life-altering decisions that need to be made, and there is nothing wrong with being methodical and weighing the various options and scenarios.

Being nasty gets you nowhere.

However, some WSs interpret "advocating for oneself" as being nasty/difficult. This is especially true of the disordered and broken.

Weigh your options. Seek professional advice. Stop sharing your feelings with someone who really isn't interested in anything but herself.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 33182   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Ohio
id 8490492
default

 Clockman (original poster member #70128) posted at 4:18 AM on Friday, January 3rd, 2020

Pendulum swing back to thinking we’re done.

I spent the morning taking care of the kids while she slept in. I went to work for a customer for a few hours and snuck in a :30 run before getting home before dinner. She was very cold and I could tell she was agitated. I walked the line between helping out with the girls and giving her space. We ate dinner and then I got the girls into bed.

Afterwards she’s taking care of some tasks and I ask if she needs help. She basically snaps at me and tells me she’s got it and to do something else. I was offering help and she was acting frustrated towards me. She finally said she was just fed up with me saying “This was my day off and all I’ve done is cook and clean and go grocery shopping. I’m so happy you had fun running.” I dismissed her comment and reminded her I was at work all afternoon and she just scoffed and said “yeah... right...” What the hell!?

Her sister is visiting with her husband and I’ve noticed that she seems emboldened to act snooty towards me when they are here. I hope they are objective and can see that she’s acting off base and I’m actually not doing anything wrong. I know she is close to her sister and confides in her on a regular basis. Lord knows what one sided stories she’s told her about me.

Reading through the replies on here I do want to say thank you for bringing me back to a point of objectivity. Being with her as things currently stand is not something I want to do.

She’s not interested in R, only escape.

posts: 82   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2019
id 8490834
default

sassylee ( member #45766) posted at 9:50 PM on Saturday, January 4th, 2020

I’m sorry Clockman. I know this shit is painful.

My R(eformed)WH had a 5 month EA in 2012
In my 7th year of R
“LOVE is a commitment, not an emotion. It is a conscious act of a covenant of unconditional love. It is a mindset and a thought process.” - BigHeart2018’s Professor

posts: 11459   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2014   ·   location: 🇨🇦
id 8491526
default

 Clockman (original poster member #70128) posted at 2:58 PM on Tuesday, January 7th, 2020

It's strange but I'm feeling kind of numb to all of this lately. As I've heard others say on here I think my heart may have caught up to my head. I still care about my W and realize that despite divorcing we will be involved in each others lives through our children. However, I just don't feel like trying to fix things anymore. I don't feel like she wants to fix things anymore. I don't feel like R is possible for us as she's the one playing the entitled victim in our marital problems.

On Saturday I took the girls to their grandmas house for a sleep over so I could take care of a personal task the next morning while my W slept in after her late shift. I wound up with a few hours to myself that evening so decided to go see a movie alone. My W's sister is staying with us for a few days so I'm guessing she must have informed her at work that I wasn't home. She called me at midnight as I was almost home but I didn't take the call. The next day she confronted me in the kitchen about my whereabouts. I just told her I was out doing stuff. "So you aren't going to tell me why you were out until midnight?!" I answered with a simple "I was just taking some personal time." This sent her off the edge I think as she's been a wreck ever since.

I worked yesterday and got home at dinner time. She was still a mess fighting back tears and emotions. She excused herself to go to bed at 7pm so I took care of getting our kids showered and into bed. I went to check on my W as she was in bed crying and told her with honesty that "I hated to see her like this." She replied with "No you don't. You don't care about me! You're dumping the kids off with someone else so you can go out and do god knows what while I'm slaving away at work! You only see me as a way to keep a roof over your head!!" Rather than even reply to such a crazy statement, I just shook my head and walked away to take care of our kids.

This morning my W was leaving for work at the same time I was getting the kids off to school. I normally help her carry her stuff to her car, open her door, and say goodbye. This morning when I started to help she told me not to and that she could get it herself so I backed off. Our oldest went out with her to say goodbye. When our oldest came back inside I could tell she seemed a little quiet and "off." I asked if she was okay and she was just quiet and said she didn't feel good. I'm worried she's picking up on the stress and changes. I think we will need to have a talk soon. That's going to suck.

I have IC today which I think will help me sort out my head some.

I have an appointment with my attorney on Thursday. I plan to file for D then. Right now I'm just working on my request for the division of assets and how I envision our parenting plan will work. I'll ask W to do the same and we can compare to start the compromise.

Ugg.

posts: 82   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2019
id 8492556
default

Sanibelredfish ( member #56748) posted at 4:57 PM on Tuesday, January 7th, 2020

Oh boy... there’s a lot to unpack in your most recent post, but I only have time to address one of the points you raise near the end.

When negotiating with your entitled WW, I strongly recommend you start at what you are legally entitled to as informed by your lawyer. You can move off of that if you wish (I wouldn’t recommend it), but starting at anything less than that as a bargaining point will only ensure you get screwed. In fact, I wonder if her recent focus on that aspect of them M isn’t a manipulation of you to walk away with less. You’ll show her you aren’t greedy! The problem is you never were greedy, she was and she still is.

Divorce laws were put in place to protect the financially vulnerable partner and ensure they were provided for after the M ended. You may bristle at that characterization, but it is accurate from where I sit.

posts: 801   ·   registered: Jan. 8th, 2017   ·   location: Midwest
id 8492608
default

Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 9:18 PM on Tuesday, January 7th, 2020

I suspect that your WW lost respect for you, as you were the SAHD and not "providing" for her. If the roles were reversed, she would tell you she had the hardest job in the world, but that is irrelevant in this situation.

I also suspect from what you have written, that your WW is pushing you to D. She doesn't want to do it, so that she can continue to be the victim, but as she has shown you by her actions, she is not making any attempt at R. In her head, she is doing the work by being the breadwinner, any other "work" is your responsibility.

She may also be starting to see what divorced life will look like and may not be liking it.

This is all based on minimal information, I'm not psychic. I'm only advising you based on the little information I have read from you. But there have been many similar relationships posted in the past.

posts: 1593   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 8492741
default

 Clockman (original poster member #70128) posted at 8:27 PM on Wednesday, January 8th, 2020

Tigersrule, Yes, I think your thoughts are spot on.

Update: Last night I had the first real conversation with my W in a couple weeks. I mentioned that I wasn't too pleased that she had left some papers out on my desk that were related to the D process. Our oldest was in my office and I don't know if she saw them but is perfectly capable of reading. I also mentioned that our oldest was acting a little off and I suspected that the stress between us parents was acting on her. My W agreed that she's sure she's noticed that "mom's very sad" lately and something is wrong.

W asked me again where I was Saturday night and I decided to tell her along with the explanation that I didn't like being checked in on just when she thinks I'm doing something wrong in her eyes. It led to another little spat and I just stayed cold and let it go.

This is when she dropped the bomb. She informed me that she has a meeting with an attorney on Thursday to file for D. I actually gave a little laugh before telling her that's quite the coincidence as I also have a meeting with my attorney on Thursday to file! Her face went blank with shock. She has know it was coming but I didn't want to give her a date and allow her time to mess with our finances or anything.

She asked who I was using and how much it was going to cost. I told her and that I was still hoping for an uncontested D so we don't end up just giving all our money to the lawyers. She agreed. I told her I was writing up what I want in the D in regards to assets, possessions, and our finances. I told her I was also working on my vision for a parenting plan. I told her she needed to do the same and then we could pin point any places where we disagree and need to negotiate.

She was completely broken by this point, in tears and highly emotionally charged. It was late so I suggested we get some sleep and I turned out my light. As I lay there her thoughts kept pouring out and I got another objective look at her ability to be manipulative.

She casually mentioned to me that our counselor said to her in her IC that "Men who take alimony are weak." She said they made a joke and called it "Palimony". (Note taken: She's trying to discourage me from asking for any by preloading it as an unmanly thing to do.)

She also is very worried about keeping our house which I am fine with her doing and actually hope she can. I do want our kids to be able to stay in the stable environment and same schools, etc. She said that she was "Worried that if I asked for too much from our equity she would not be able to keep the home, and then have to move in with her family across town and send our kids to the schools in that area. They would lose their friends, etc." (Note taken again: She's trying to use my emotions around the kids to "win" in the D) I see many options for her to stay in the home and still be fair with me in the D.

My W is at work today and actually texted me from there for the first time in quite a while. She just said she was "Sad and anxious". I told her I felt the same. She again texted me that she's nearly in tears at work and having a hard time concentrating. I just told her I was sorry to hear that. I think reality is hitting for her.

I'm anxious but still steadfast that I'm taking the correct path with D. Our relationship is so damaged from the A and it's aftermath. Telling the kids is the only thing I'm really dreading. They won't understand. I am confident though that I'm a kick ass dad and might even be a better one without my resentful and bitter WW.

Painful times ahead for everyone. Thank you for all the thoughts and support on here.

posts: 82   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2019
id 8493261
default

masti ( member #54237) posted at 9:18 PM on Wednesday, January 8th, 2020

Clockman I am happy that you are divorcing your WW. When you first posted under a different id we could all see how your empathy was holding you back. You are fundamentally a decent person and that is the difference between you and her. You sacrificed your career for her cos you thought yourselves as one. She should have told you that she resented being the breadwinner cos then you could have done something. Even now it’s all about her money and her emotional blackmail. I say get what’s rightfully yours to teach her a lesson. The fact that she meant nothing to the OM is the only reason she sheds tears they are not for you. Stay firm and determined and get rid of her toxic influence. You deserve it.

posts: 172   ·   registered: Jul. 19th, 2016
id 8493291
default

Sanibelredfish ( member #56748) posted at 9:36 PM on Wednesday, January 8th, 2020

I’m sorry it has come to this, but I think you will be better off without her. Truly. I hope you’ll see and believe that too:

Yes, she’s positioning you asking for your fair share of marital assets as greedy, unmanly, and bad for your kids. Did I miss anything? She knows your weak spots, and she’s hitting them full force to get what she wants. She’s no rookie at this. In fact, I suspect she’s always been this manipulative with you, but you were blinded by your love for her...

You’d be well served by instituting a 180 with her. She’s not only D’ing you, she’s actively trying to hurt your future on the way out the door. The less you say to her, the better.

posts: 801   ·   registered: Jan. 8th, 2017   ·   location: Midwest
id 8493303
default

sassylee ( member #45766) posted at 9:57 PM on Wednesday, January 8th, 2020

She was shocked because while she’s heard you talk about it, she never actually thought you’d do it. She wanted to have the jump on you but you blew her away with your reaction and news. The power balance has shifted.

I’m glad you’re able to see the manipulation. You are a good father, their rock in the storm and there is no reason for there to be disparity going from one house to the other. You’ll want to provide a physical home for them as well. Why would it be fair for her to stay in the house but visit you in a one bedroom apartment?

Your sacrifice, being the one to hold down the fort while your wife pursued her career should not be held against you. I hope the courts are fair and equitable clockman. I can tell you’ll be more than fair in your expectations in the divorce. I hope she can see through her entitlement and act the same.

My R(eformed)WH had a 5 month EA in 2012
In my 7th year of R
“LOVE is a commitment, not an emotion. It is a conscious act of a covenant of unconditional love. It is a mindset and a thought process.” - BigHeart2018’s Professor

posts: 11459   ·   registered: Nov. 29th, 2014   ·   location: 🇨🇦
id 8493311
default

 Clockman (original poster member #70128) posted at 11:58 PM on Friday, January 10th, 2020

I did it. I just filed for D today. Now we enter a 90-day waiting period before we can schedule a court date. I have a plan for what I want from our marriage in regards to parenting our children, finances, and personal property. I (we) are aiming for an uncontested D to keep costs down.

Wish me luck. I'm a bit of a wreck right now even though I know I'm doing the right thing.

posts: 82   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2019
id 8494534
default

 Clockman (original poster member #70128) posted at 12:02 AM on Saturday, January 11th, 2020

...the good news is that my attorney and I had a good talk today and I have a lot of power cards in my back pocket. I'm not trying to destroy her, just get what I want and need from this train wreck. I want to make sure I don't get manipulated and screwed in this so I have a nice list of options that I could take but hope I don't have to as long as she agrees to my reasonable list of requests.

posts: 82   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2019
id 8494538
default

Sanibelredfish ( member #56748) posted at 12:14 AM on Saturday, January 11th, 2020

As unpleasant as it is, I think you did the right thing. When trying to go the uncontested route, I think you should let your STBXW know that you know you are legally entitled to more than you’re asking for, and it would be to her benefit to work with you.

posts: 801   ·   registered: Jan. 8th, 2017   ·   location: Midwest
id 8494549
default

Marz ( member #60895) posted at 2:55 AM on Saturday, January 11th, 2020

You owe her nothing. No good deed you do for her will go unpunished.

Take care of yourself. No one else will and if you don’t how are you going to manage for your kids.

Wake up fully to reality.

Your stbxw is a selfish entitled person. You can’t fix that

posts: 6791   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8494617
default

blahblahblahe ( member #62231) posted at 11:22 AM on Saturday, January 11th, 2020

When someone tells you who they are, always believe them.

Your soon to be X has told you in actions and now words exactly who she is and has been for a very long time. She is not going to change and she does not have YOUR best interests in mind in her actions.

She has been planning this for some time, she has not vacillated nor wavered due to any caring nor love for you, only her interests.

What makes you believe you are not the better parent? Why are you leaving the house and lifestyle to her? Divorce laws were written with the children in mind and the spouse who sacrifices career opportunities to stay home and care for said children. Everything you have written indicates you have sacrificed, not your wife.

I have difficulty in understanding why you accept less than what is in your and your children's best interest.

If only a percentage of what you have written regarding your soon to be XW is true, is she a very questionable person who does not respect you in any way.

The base psychology of people is they do not move on from one relationship unless they already have another in place. Please reflect upon this, and what it means for you and your children's future.

PROTECT YOURSELF AND THEM.

posts: 319   ·   registered: Jan. 11th, 2018   ·   location: Europe and USA
id 8494698
default

 Clockman (original poster member #70128) posted at 10:39 PM on Saturday, January 11th, 2020

First day of what I'm probably going to call the "awkward period" where I'm in our home still, sleeping in our bed, yet have filed for D from her. She asked me last night how I could file for D and then be comfortable climbing into bed beside her. I just explained that it was my bed and that as long as I'm living in the home intend to sleep there. I stopped short of suggesting if it bothers her that we have a guest room and she has several options at her parents.

We had a few minutes to talk away from our kids this morning. She again asked what my plans were. I simply told her I was working out what I want in the D and that I intend to stay in the home for a period. I told her the most important thing right now it to let the dust settle and not disturb the home environment for our kids. We need to discuss how and when to tell the kids what's happening but that needed to be well thought out and timed to make it as easy on them as possible.

I also told her we needed to discuss when and how to tell our friends and family what's happening. I didn't want to go out and proactively announce to everyone that we are getting a D, but that it's going to come up and what to say when they ask why. I suggested that we give the vague answer of we've grown apart and been very unhappy to keep it neutral and not blame the other. I however did tell her that if I find out she's blaming me and bad mouthing me that I'll not hesitate to bring up her A and what she's done to our family. One of her biggest fears right now is being shamed and losing friends because of all this. Despite my intentions to D, I don't hate my W or want her to hate me. We have kids together and will be a part of each others lives from here on out.

She asked where I was going to live and I just had to tell her I'd let her know when I did. She again gave me a proposal regarding the equity in our home that was not fair to me. I told her that wasn't going to cut it and she again brought up the whole "but I'll have to move back in with my parents and take the kids away from their schools and friends!" bull. I told her that wasn't true. I've done the math and even giving me my half the equity her mortgage would only go up ~$150. She makes ~$9800/mos gross and I'm just trying to restart a business. I asked her if fair would be for me to give her the lions share of our assets and then have the kids visit me in a small apartment scraping by. She said no but also made it clear that in her selfish thinking she's the one who has "made" the money so she's entitled to more.

The conversation ended with her telling me "I wish I'd never married you." WTF. I suppose I should thank her for making it easier for me to take a hard line with the settlement.

posts: 82   ·   registered: Feb. 23rd, 2019
id 8494904
This Topic is Archived
Cookies on SurvivingInfidelity.com®

SurvivingInfidelity.com® uses cookies to enhance your visit to our website. This is a requirement for participants to login, post and use other features. Visitors may opt out, but the website will be less functional for you.

v.1.001.20250722a 2002-2025 SurvivingInfidelity.com® All Rights Reserved. • Privacy Policy