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I mean... it’s possible she doesn’t know his name. She met him through tinder (in your original post). A poly would tell you.

That would mean she was having an affair with a random stranger and he made sure he would stay anonymous. If one meets a married woman on tinder for sex, one tries to stay anonymous. Your WW was just not very good at hiding it on her side.

Like CamomileTea said, that also mean she threw away her integrity, family and Husband for sex with a random stranger

And now she’ll have a lot of convincing to to to prove herself to be a safe partner if you are considering R.

Couple of thoughts...

I KNOW I'M PUSHING THE WORK ON HER AND THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR R... THAT SHE NEEDS TO BE THE ONE DOING ALL THE WORK.

She just drove the marital car into a tree, so expecting her to figure how to repair it is probably a losing approach. You need to direct, at least in the beginning. She needs to do the heavy lifting.

...POS showed up at the bar, we exchanged numbers and then we texted a over a few weeks

So she has his number? He is easily findable, unless it was a burner phone on his end. You just need that number.

There is a big difference between you finding out who he is and she giving him up. If you figure it out on your own, don't tell her. She needs to commit the act of giving him up.

No doubt the POSOM is preying on other wives of other husbands. They're easy targets.

Sending strength!

Go back and read Stevesn's post. He laid it out well. Your marriage is gone friend, and the harder you try to force your WW to give up the goods and work on R, the harder she is going to fight you. Your WW has no desire to fix the marriage. Her only goal is to make you out to be the stark-raving lunatic husband who forced her into another man's arms: a role which you are currently playing to a T. She has you right where she wants you, and she is going to slowly cook the narrative to get as many friends and family on her side as she can, using your anger as the fuel.

Your WW doesn't love you. She has no sexual or romantic desire for you at all. What remnant there was has been stomped out for good by your obsessive behavior, and yes, that is what it is: you are obsessing over this OM, and you need to stop. The best thing you can do right now is file for divorce and start protecting yourself financially. Like others have said, you can always halt the divorce process if she ever shows signs of remorse. But from where I sit, that's not going to happen. She has dug in and she's going to go down swinging. She doesn't care who she hurts or how much damage she does in the process. What matters is that she is the one who wins in the end, by allowing you to make her look like the poor abused and tormented wife.

The biggest blow to my STBXWW was the day she looked at me and saw that I didn't care anymore. Up to that point she thought she still had one over on me, and with that belief in her mind she always carried herself with a certain amount of self-control. But that day when she saw that I had moved on, and that nothing she could do would affect me anymore, that is when she fell apart.

[This message edited by Westway at 9:44 AM, July 13th (Monday)]

I hope you don't go back to MC like many of us suggested, especially with an unremorseful WW, it's simply a waste of money, that money would have been better spent on a PI, BTW you could still do that, there's a chance OW is still protecting OM because you KNOW him and if that's the case chances are she will try to keep protecting him or giving him an advance warning of the ruse your planning to do with her, I would still try it but I would have a PI in place in case OM shows up in a borrowed car or a rental, the PI will still be able to follow him back to the rental place and eventually his home, all that with footage and pictures of him.

Like I said before, still too much dancing around the issue, you're still trying for her to "get it", unremorseful WS don't care about books even if you shoved them down their throats, the only thing that may have an impact on them is ACTION, meaning D papers and the imminent lifestyle change they will face once it's finalized, that will let you know how much (or how little) she wants to stay married to you.

Don't wait for another second, tell her TODAY she's got 30 seconds to hand you her unlocked phone and Icloud passwords and that she has to agree to set up OM so that a PI can get his license plate and have him followed. You tried your way, the MC, etc., now let the professionals handle it, I'm not sure if you're still using the VAR, if not I would suggest you put it back in place before you tell her this.

wW-focused talk about how much she has given the family for 20+ years and it's not right to have it all swept away and all that she is now is this person that did this terrible thing.

I always hate hearing this one. It's like WW burns down the house on purpose but want's you to focus on nicely she redecorated it, added to the property value, and how great the granite counter tops (her idea) were prior to her burning it down. You don't get to take credit for all the work you did after destroying everything.

7 pages of graphic texts to a guy she doesn't even have a last name for? or know where he lives?

You have his phone number. can't you do a reverse lookup?

You should post your question about having her phone and wanting to get as much information off of it as possible in the Investigative tips forum.

When I read your posts it makes me think that your WW doesn't care about working on the marriage as much as she cares about not being blamed as the bad guy.

I would also ask for access to the phone records to see how often they were speaking after D day. and get his number if you don't have it.

Good luck

There is absolutely no way that unless she has refused you access to the phone records that you cannot find this guy, unless it is a burner phone which you can find out.

I simply do not understand why you are putting yourself through this when she refuses to give you any information.

She is protecting him at your expense, and a simple polygraph test will tell you about the last name in whether she know it or not. But you and everyone here already knows the answer to that one.

You I believe know who the girlfriend is. Have you ever been around any of her male friends. If not, I don't think then that it is someone you know.

My bet is she is still in communication with him, and will resume seeing him if she can get you to calm down. Whats the plan for next time shes going out with this friend??

She doesn't get credit for 20 years. The vows didn't have a lease time frame agreement in them.

I agree with those that are telling you this level of disrespect is as bad as it gets when they do what she is doing AFTER getting caught.

I'm going to present myself as a success story for you here.

My wife was being an idiot and trying "Recapture the good old days because she forgot who she was when our kids stopped needing her when our youngest started kindergarten."

My wife gave me half truths and down right lies to protect me. I could only learn what I found myself from other people. She also kept telling me some of the same things you are hearing about how other people couldn't know or it would ruin our family. That part of it was my fault. She had been unhappy a long time and me not noticing was my fault. You know.

Then I filed. She didn't believe it at first, but after 2 days of prep to move out of the bedroom, she started to freak out. Suddenly then she started to get it. She really freaked out the first time I went to a bar without her after filing. I had taken my ring off the day I filed. So many questions and so much concern. Lots of statements about all the work she is doing now and how she gets how I feel now.

Go read some wayward stories. Most of them don't think divorce is a possible outcome until it is filed. Or they let the idea of divorce stop them from taking action because telling will trigger divorce. Then they can't understand why and try until their hands bleed from all the work to fix things.

I stopped my divorce after 4 months of the 1 year process. We are doing better than during the affair or right after. Not better than before, I don't know how people get there, but I have my family still.

File and you will see a drastic change in your WW. Just my advice.

Round and round you will go. One shaky step forward and your wayward will push you back as many as she can. Marriage counselling is useless while she remains involved with the AP.

Reconciliation is an option but only viable when your wayward shows remorse and a willingness to work with you. To give you the truth to acknowledge responsibility.

She is not dancing to your tune, you are dancing to hers. She will only give you a half hearted effort. You have seen the crocodile tears, she will attempt to make it all about her suffering and hardship. There is nothing redeemable about the woman you married. It is all about her, what she is going through she couldn't give a flying fiddlers F about you and the damage she has done. She will continue to delay and string you along with her possible cooperation.

You already know how she TRULY feels about you. You heard how she spoke about you on the VAR. Yet you still offer her the gift of reconciliation. If you are choosing to do so for your kids you are wasting your time. You are better off co-parenting. If you have some small hope she will come to her senses you will be disappointed. The real woman you married is the one that denigrated and cursed you on the recording. The real woman you married lies to your face and continues to play games and delay the inevitable.

All the best regardless.

I would not speak to her except about the kids until she provides the full name. Pointless to reconcile till she does. From all of your posts, she does not love nor respect you anymore. Shows that by telling you she does not know his name. File and get this over with. Hard 180.

I have to agree with Westway. I think you need to just stop going over and over about the name with her. She knows you want it, she knows you need it, and she's clearly not going to give it to you. Maybe she will one day, maybe you'll find out on your own, or maybe you'll never know. Regardless, at this point you should really file.

I hope you stop with the MC as well. I didn't really see the point to begin with since she clearly was not in a mindset for R but at least you know you tried. Going back at this point would be a further waste of time.

And again, I recommend you stop engaging with her about the affair, who the other man is, the marriage, the past, who needs to work on what, etc. Topics should include the divorce, lawyers, finances, household logistics, moving, etc. Nothing else. Unless she's remorseful and in the mindset to put in the work, going on about the aforementioned topics is just going to make her drag her heels in even further and paint you as cuckoo for not letting her get away with everything she's done.

You need to get out of infidelity and at this point the only thing you can do is file for divorce and figure out what you want to do with your life from there. Your other option is to settle for a wife who sees guys on the side or to wait around hoping she'll pull her head out of her ass one day (which could be never).

I also don't recommend bringing up the polygraph unless the WS is going to be willing to take one. Your wife won't even give you the guy's name. She's not going to go through with a polygraph. All she's going to do is tell you "No", and again try to paint you as crazy. Now if there ever comes a time when she's willing to do anything to R then you bring up a polygraph and gauge her reaction.

Sorry things aren't heading in a better direction for you but I think it's time for you to start acting for yourself and stop waiting for her to react how you want her to.

Sorry brother, but time to let go.

I feel she is just protecting him, as I said she was with him when he booked in the Motel, she went to reception and asked for a room key for MR... room. They wouldn’t give a key for ‘CJ’’s’ room.

He is known to you.

One day at a time 180 and be the grey rock.

Buffer

[This message edited by Buffer at 4:26 AM, July 14th (Tuesday)]

So much about your last big post bothers me. Her entitlement is off the charts. Her wanting YOUR login credentials???? Give me a fucking break. Manipulation at its finest.

I know and get how hard you want your old life back. That just won't ever happen. If R were even possible, your new marriage will still be haunted by her A. I did a lot of the same things you are doing.

One thing she should not be doing is fighting this process. Her actions SCREAM that she does not care about you or your marriage. She's only concerned about coming out of this as some kind of victim and not losing her status as "Mrs. BSHusbandWI".

I really can't add anything more than what has been said and rehashed by everyone else on this thread, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

I commented to you back on 6/23/20 that you needed to kick her out, file, expose her. And I assume from your post that your family knows but are choosing to keep the peace for family gatherings. Yet there's still seems to be a likelihood that she is still contacting AP, or at least still protecting him by not giving up his name.

So she hasn't really changed her tune. She's just chosen to play a different game. One that hopefully ends with her getting to still have her cake and eat it too.

She doesn't understand the finality of what D will be like. Because she doesn't take you seriously. She's more than happy to half-ass engage in this back and forth with you so long as you don't pull the trigger. This will go on for as long as you allow it.

File. Hard 180. Do not engage.

Right now the issue isn’t really if BSHusbandWI can find the name by himself. The issue isn’t if we think the OP should reconcile or not – that’s HIS choice. Personally I don’t think he can reconcile if his wife is holding back, and therefore he shouldn’t spend much time trying. But I completely get his need to see what his wife does and if he can convince her. This is quite typical for BS that are reluctant to rush to divorce and can end in one of three ways: The WS can surrender the truth and commit to reconciliation or the BS realizes they won’t get the truth and moves on to divorce. The third path is the worst one: that’s where the BS doesn’t get the truth but stays in the marriage. BSHusbandWI isn’t at that stage and I fully believe he will either end up with the name or in divorce.

I think he already has enough info that if he dedicated himself to the search he could probably end up with a name and a likely suspect. That’s not the issue. It’s not as if he can do his investigating and then go to his wife and tell her “His name is Joe Gumshoe” and she say “OK – Now we have a name let’s reconcile”.

You can reconcile without the OM name, but you can’t reconcile if some basic, key-elements are built on lies OR mistrust, or if either spouse is holding back on key issues. Issues like the OM name.

There are instances where people can reconcile without knowing the OM name, but the only ones I remember are when the WS has used prostitutes, been at a sex-club with random people or a drunken ONS with no recollection of names. In all these instances there has been a long, excruciating process of the BS accepting and believing that a name can’t be gotten or that the OP identity isn’t relevant. The key factor here being that the WS is telling the truth when they say they don’t know the OP name.

The real issue here is that the WW claim of not knowing the OM rings false and we have more than reasonable doubt about her telling the truth. This wasn’t random nor a one-time event. This was repeated with ongoing contact. Not knowing a name is highly unlikely.

THAT is the real issue.

Although HIGHLY UNLIKELY that she doesn’t know his full name then she should be willing to help find the name and/or willing to do what is needed to prove she doesn’t know his name.

When you hear the beating of hooves you think horses – not zebras. Well… there is a very slight slimmer of a chance that the beating of hooves the original poster is hearing is from zebras. But I’m guessing that in 99.99% of the times it’s just plain old nags. The poster wants assurance for that 0.01%.

What suggesting a poly does is it forces the issue. Her response to why she refuses to take one will tell you what’s really coming round that corner. I see no problem at all with him telling her:

“I really want to believe you don’t know his name but it really beats all reasoning that you don’t. I don’t believe we can reconcile while I think you are lying to me. I’m willing to accept you don’t know his name if you pass a polygraph about that issue.”

Finally:

If the WI in the user-name implies Wisconsin. Infidelity factors in divorce, albeit in a very limited way. The judge can take infidelity into consideration when it comes to the division of assets, custody, support and such. It’s seldom used, but as a far-fetched fantasy then technically you could subpoena your wife to give the name of the OM. Once again; it’s fantasy, but maybe this fear is one factor in why she is keeping his name so close.

BSHusbandWI, are you prepared to physically defend yourself, your children and your home if necessary?

Which begs the question of how much does he know about you and your home?

This came up in MC... Neither POS or WW knows where the other lives (according to WW).

Whether it's true or not, I can't be sure.

You know that with his name you would be able to find so much information about him on the internet.

If your WW shared your last name, address, details about you or the kids with him how much effort do you think he would have to put forth to find out where you live?

You know she shared her number with him and unless her number was from a burner phone he could use that number to track her, and your family, down.

You know nothing about him or how far he would be willing to go or what he is willing to do should he desperately want to protect himself from this getting back to his employer, friends or family.

I get to hear a good amount of wW-focused talk about how much she has given the family for 20+ years and it's not right to have it all swept away and all that she is now is this person that did this terrible thing

She is crying about the consequences of her actions.

She may never cheat again but from the moment she cheated she will always be a spouse that cheated on her faithful husband.

A post from 78monte

We are rebuilding, but I can't help but be sad about what could have been. I am sad that she broke her vows. She may be faithful for the next 30 yrs, but it will never be the same had she been faithful until death do us part.

To the extent that he cares, the OM knows who you are, you can bet on that. A quick look at your wife's ID while she goes to the bathroom...

I know that you want the POS details and I completely understand why, I would as well if I didn’t already know them.

As much as you feel you need these details to move on, at the moment it’s holding you back from moving on. Your discussion with her and the MC need to have line - you know she can contact OM, you know she could find out the name just by asking but she doesn’t. You might want to say that if she doesn’t get the name by X date (and make it quite soon) the divorce papers go in. Otherwise she is just using this to drag the whole process down.

I hope that you can find a way forward and move on, for you and your boys.

You might want to say that if she doesn’t get the name by X date (and make it quite soon) the divorce papers go in. Otherwise she is just using this to drag the whole process down.

I hope that you can find a way forward and move on, for you and your boys.

This sounds like a ultimatum. They rarely work the way you intend.

Just file and have her served. I believe this will work best as evidenced from some of the stories on this and other infidelity sites.

This sounds like a ultimatum. They rarely work the way you intend.

Just file and have her served. I believe this will work best as evidenced from some of the stories on this and other infidelity sites.

Yeah, I didn’t mean it to sound like an ultimatum as I’m not keen on those either - more just setting a deadline.

I think it looks as though she is using this now to drag the discussions out, she’s had a long time now to get and give the OP the information she knows he needs. She is not going to provide it and I think the OP knows that deep down, so at some point you have to draw a line and do what needs to be done with the divorce. She had her chance.

Hi. WELCOME TO THE CONTINUING SAGA OF THE MOST FUCKED UP PERSON IN WORLD! NOW GRAB YOUR POPCORN, AND CANDY AND SIT BACK AND ENJOY THE SHOW!!! shhh... It's about to begin.

The session with the marriage counselor opened the doors to discussion. Really, her being at least somewhat ready to provide details. So, I prepped.

Based on Ellie's suggestion I categorized all my questions. I didn't break it down into need-to-know versus want to know (which she suggested), but I spent a lot of time figuring out what I really needed. It was a long list. I read it and re-read it and looked it over and I just thought to myself why do I feel like I need to know all this? I have to say, I don't have an answer for that. I just need to know.

So, we went through what happened with POS since the confrontation. A whole lot of details about how they initially met. I tried to build a dossier about him by asking a whole lot of personal questions about him and of course also questions about what he knows about our family. Because I'm kind of concerned that could cause trouble for us. We also covered a good amount of detail about the hotels, and all the non-Hotel meetings and all the intimate acts that they did with one another. I feel like she was mostly truthful. I know that sounds terrible, I have known her for over 20 years and I think she was being truthful. Being where she was just 3 days ago, not wanting to talk about anything and not doing any work, WW has come a long way. She read the entire MacDonald book too. I hope I asked all the right questions in the right ways during our talk.

There were two times during the Exchange that I caught her not giving full information. I had to reminder her how hurtful that was. I also said if we didn't make it through this and we were both single and looking for someone to share the rest of our lives with would she be okay with someone that wasn't honest that she couldn't trust? She of course said no. I said Then how are we supposed to have any chance of being together if you can't be completely transparent and honest with me now? She was silent and nodded her head.

The entire session was around 90 minutes (in addition to a lighter 30-minute session the night before) where she answered questions and that I don't think I handled too well- I treated it like an interrogation (I literally had pages of notes so I didn't forget anything). She cried a few times and was quite difficult at the beginning and she even made it an awful lot about her on and off to start. That did subside and questions were asked and answered. She of course had a lot of trouble with the sexual questions. I had trouble- a lot of trouble learning that she swallowed his cum. To me that's such a special thing that a woman can give a man - It's so subservient or a way to kind of "be his" if you know what I mean. I didn't express this, instead I just broke down.

She gave me her phone to look through but it had been washed (and she stood over me while I checked everything out). I knew that I would find nothing because a few weeks back she said "fine I fuckin deleted everything" when she was really angry. While I was happy not to find anything and I did find that his number was blocked, right now there is no monitoring agreement. It's something I have to consider. (more on this later).

I know you're wondering if I got that POSs name. The answer is no. As hard as it is to believe, I think she doesn't have it. The truth is, it doesn't really matter what I believe or even what the actual truth is about her truthfulness in the matter or even what it means that she could do all of that with a complete stranger. The fact is I don't have a name. Out of all of the information I was needing, it really is the single most important piece of information. It allows me to protect myself, my ego/dignity (not sure if there is any of that left actually), my family, my home and protect his little girl and wife by letting her know what happened. So I still feel incomplete. I feel that way for a number of reasons. First, I need to know. Did I mention that yet? :-) Second, I need to be able to identify him in a crowd. Third, I can't monitor what I don't have awareness around. And of course finally, he needs to be ratted out to his wife. Oh, and about that...

During our conversation last night she said she got a text from OMs wife. It basically said stay the fuck away from my family don't ever contact him again or there's going to be trouble. I was shocked to say the least and she immediately thought that I had been responsible for telling her. I said how the fuck was I supposed to do that when I don't even know his fucking full name let alone hers or where they live or any real information that would allow me to find her or her phone number to call her. She said that OMW, probably had access to his phone and that that was in the text as well. Which she deleted because she said she was freaked out. Did I mention she gave me access to the phone records too? Well she did, and later I checked and there was a number from our area that texted. In fact two numbers about 6 hours apart. I called the first one and it said the number has been disconnected. I made her call the second number later and that one was also disconnected. She deleted the texts before I could see them. I told her that she needs to show me those things in the future like if OM were ever to reach out to her again instead of just deleting them. Because it seems sneaky and not open. So this is REALLY FUCKED UP. What went through my mind was... it is possible her friend or WW came up with this scheme... To have me not worry about everything by using an app or burner number to text her something. Have her delete it so that then she can say it was from the wife and that I wouldn't worry anymore. And maybe not even need his name anymore because now it's really done. That shows you first of all how fucking paranoid and messed up I am. If this ruse were true it's some pretty crazy next level espionage so to speak. So, I told her that I probably have more questions and I still need her help in finding this guy's name. She showed what looks like genuine concern that we'd be fucking in their lives if I reached out to him and it could end up problematic. I think she said something along the lines of she didn't mean to hurt anybody- not me or this guy's wife. While I do think she actually means that, I have asked her again and again and again, " what the fuck did you think was going to happen?"

So here I am with one major piece of information that I still don't have. I do feel better about all the additional details that she disclosed even though I really didn't want to know that stuff (I did, but I didn't - if you know what I mean).

I'm not sure where that leaves us other than I need to have a discussion about her rebuilding trust with me by allowing me to check in on her phone activities since it was the major vehicle that she used to cheat. I also need to find if this piece of shit's identity for Fuckssake. And more important than any of that I need to decide if I can ever be okay with what she did, the damage she did to me and the train wreck that I am. I have to consider my kids, my future and well-being, my financial situation (including me being unemployed), if I could ever be intimate with her in any kind of fulfilling way for either one of us, if I could ever trust her again and all of the things I heard her say about me and my family on the VAR.

SI friends, so far you have been incredibly helpful and I thank you all for being empathetic, supporting me, hitting me upside the head with a two-by-four from time to time, and just pointing out things that I know I should know but tend to get lost in all the crazy shit that's going on in my head. As I read over what I've written, especially the paragraph before this, I think that if I were one of you listening to a story about someone else's life, I would scream at the top of my lungs (I guess just capital letters on here) GET THE FUCK OUT, AND GET THE FUCK OUT NOW. DON'T PASS GO AND DON'T COLLECT $200 AND IF YOU'RE CONSIDERING ANYTHING ELSE AT ALL, YOU ARE THE DUMBEST MOTHER FUCKER I HAVE EVER LISTENED TO ON SI EVAAARRRR!!! NOW DO THE RIGHT THING AND FILE YOU STUPID, SPINELESS, LAME EXCUSE FOR A MAN. That's honestly, if I step outside of all of this, what I'd be telling myself. This is going to sound ludicrous, but we've been together over 22 years - almost half my life!!!!! And despite how shitty this is and how shitty she is and how her shitty choices have impacted me and the boys, at this moment right now i'm really not sure what to do. I don't say this to get your opinions. I know those will come. And like I said before, i'll listen and consider and do what's right for me at this moment.

Right now, honestly, I think the best thing is just to continue talking with WW while I work to gain employment and discover the identity of POS. Yes it slays me and I'm still sitting in infidelity, but we can continue to talk about me finding out who this POS is and sure I'll even talk about the relationship because honestly I feel like I've got most of my questions answered. I don't really like all those answers -honestly it depresses me quite a bit to think about all of that. But she can't change the past and neither can I. I do wish I had a DeLorean with a flux capacitor in it. I wouldn't do what you think I would do... I wouldn't go back and treat my wife better so everything was great blah blah blah. I would go back in time, find out who this mutherfucker is and beat the shit out of him so he was a paraplegic and had to drink out of a fucking straw. I could then go back to when things were good with W (she wouldn't be a WW) and her and I work harder to make things right. Meanwhile, POS, would be too busy trying to manage life in his gimpy state and he'd leave all these married women alone. I think that would be a good service to the married men and women that live in my area. I'd even accept an award for that. Ahhhhh, that has to be the dumbest thing I've written in my entire life. Such are ridiculous fantasies.

On a more forward looking note, WW has suggested that if we want to go to mediation we can and if we want to battle it out in court we can and she's not sure if she has it in her for years of work to repair something that was in such disarray for 4 years or more. I honestly feel the same. I can't blame her for saying that and I don't I think that means that she's not willing to R. But like I said I do feel the same - it seems like i'm being asked to do a triathlon RIGHT NOW and I don't know how to swim, I just took off the training wheels on my bike and I've never jogged even around the block. So, delaying while I find a job, find POS and seeing where more discussions take us seems like the easier route for now.