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Actually Dee, a woman cold cocking a man, say in the face or throat, or using an object, as is often done could very well result in serious injury, particularly if one's wife, like mine, is in great shape( she was all state in three sports and can hit a golf ball a mile).

No, it is true men are stronger, in general but not alw as ys. And, one's strength does not prevent tissue damage ifvstruckmviolently in a vulnerable spot, particularly if it is unexpected or young DDT I'd not see it coming.

Even a woman of average strength can Dome lot of damage. And, manybare well above average.

Absolutely true, a woman can easily kill or maim a man, especially if she uses a blunt or sharp object. I don't dispute that at all. A lot of women are violent and abusive and I'm glad men are more able to report these women now, but we have a long way to go in equality in that area. You'd still kick my ass in a fist-fight, lol, which is more of what usually happens in domestic violence from men to women.

Are WW's treated with more contempt than WH's???

I'm not sure but I do think that BH's are treated with more contempt than WH's.

That's probably because WH's don't comment that much and wouldn't dare make observations on a BH thread about a WW, good or bad.

That still doesn't change the fact that the BH's seem to take a lot more heat than the WH's.

Kind of a "Predator–prey reversal", IMO.

I'm likely a bigger fan of shoes and make-up than you are, lol, but that doesn't affect my ability to think rationally or perform a task.

I'm not big on make-up, no, but I do like a good pair of shoes .

There are many ways to solve a problem, lets say the problem is use 2 natural numbers and a operand to give you an answer of six. Simple problem. 3*2, 3+3, 9-3 ad infinitum.

For each one of those solutions a different subset of calculations were performed and different pathways implemented. Different groups statistically favor different pathways to a common solution, none wrong, none better, but there are quantifiable preferences to logical routes to common solutions.

There is also quantifiable statistical ratings to reported levels of satisfaction upon completing different tasks. I need to dig up the study to quote it again.

The methodology, controlled for levels of education and ethnicity. Both methodology and satisfaction very much stayed the same within groups when the groups were split among gender lines.

It's getting late here now and I hate posting findings of a study from memory if I can't recall where it was done, nor what the original postulation was, but I do remember reading a particular study when I was doing work for the SABS.

The long and the short of it is that biological grouping do show differences in problem solving methodology as well as satisfaction upon the completion of tasks of certain nature.

The outliers were a significantly low percentage in both the male and female groups.

I think it is more like on of them sucker punches the other, in which case the element of surprise is a factor vs fist fight. And, a lot of men are so indoctrinated into never hitting a woman, whereas women are not as to men( watch a movie sometimes and see how frequently a woman slaps as man yet she is not viewed poorly), that the guy just tries to restrain her( saw a lot of this when i was in court. Bruises on the wrists as the result were enough to send the guy to jail, even if his teeth were knocked out.)

Ever wonder why there are thousands of shelters for woman and almost none for men when the frequency of violence is as almost the same?

Did it ever occur to BH that iust because the female equivalent of emasculation isn't as well known as a concept, it DOESN'T mean they are ANY less affected that BHs.

Just because they can't fit their pain into one word everyone understands, that DOESN'T mean it's less.

And that IS what BH here are saying. That it's SOMEhow easier for BWs.

'Women don't understand what it feels like to be emasculated or doubt your child is yours' NO we don't, & BH don't understand what it's like when your husband has a baby with his OW. When you as his wife can't have a baby or when you've lost a child. Or when he gave you an std from his OW that caused you to lose your baby which I've seen on here a few years ago.

Is that enough for you BHs? How about feeling ugly compared to OW. Or old or damaged because you've gone through childbirth carrying your cheating husband's children. I can easily say men don't understand how women feel about their bodies after betrayal, but see how I don't have to act like it's such a fsr out concept that men couldn't possibly have it as bad? Of course not. Because men understand body image issues and women understand the female equivalent of emasculation. And even if they DIDN'T it would still hurt JUST as much as it does for a BH.

And since we're quoting studies here. Let's remember men FEAR their child not being theirs. That must be a nightmare, unlike BHs I'll actually empathise here. But YET according to the study cited 2-3% of men actually raise the OMs child unknowingly (inexusable but of course I know that cause I'm not a WW, I'm a BW who was faithful but still has her pain minimised by BH) so BH can actually PROVE their child is theirs which it is 97% of the time. But BWs with OC from the affair-it's not a test they can do that takes away that fear. No. She has to raise that child, love that child, have the OW in her life forever who will be around her WH, see her WH with that child he will love more than her, he will forever provide for that child, but his WIFE? No guarantee, she's supposed to be his family but she's just there to be 2nd best & gets to feel like pathetic pushover forever. WH's money & possibly hers goes to the child so she has to worry about her own children &income.

BW DO have mind movies like BH, maybe if BH cared to read BW posts they would realise BW actually have it JUST as bad if not worse with sex.

BW get the SAME humiliation having aex with their WH after OW. You insult us by comparing it to bloody dinner we were tricked into making for OW. At least give us the respect of better examples like washing his clothes like you're a maid with OW on them, their underwear.

Try oral after he didn't shower which gives you an STD. Or a kiss after he performed on her. Is that easier than a man on WW. It's the EQUIVALENT, don't you dare act like it's not as DISGUSTING to them.

I vomited on dday and after. Why do BH think it's only them who were disgusted. Have we not seen BH often but not alway want sex with WW after. BW often are too disgusted. Did BH forget that. But wait we still HAVE to causw society says we got cheated on for being frigid. But society only is hard on Bh right?. Wrong.

BW pain is NOT 'mollified' by her WH not leaving-she does NOT feel she WON. Ridiculous. BH clearly don't read or take seriously BW of they think this.

Just because some study says happy men cheat you honestly think BW believe they've won or have it easier. Firstly they ALSO get blamed for not putting out/not being good wives/not making their husband feel like man. Even by therapists. So even if they are ALLOWED to believe they were good wives they still feel like shit & inadequate because it wasn't enough for their WH. Because their WH LIE so HOW do they KNOW their WH love & CHOSE them? They NEVER DO. It's all one big LIE. So what if he was happy. He STILL BROKE his wife! She has to live with being abused by a WH who claims to LOVE her. Even BH don't cheat after As. THAT'S who feels loved-WWS NOT BWs so don't tell us we feel better than you because we DON'T.

BW fear of abandonment DOES NOT go away EVER let alone with money which is RARE that a WH ever provides to give her full security after A. No actually the BW has to fear being poor and go back to work after being SAHM. Or gets left & WH provides for OW or some 20 year old.

That's what a BW gets for doing all the right things. BH turned red pill then encourage the idea that there aren't good women. They acknowledge men have it easier dating after divorce and that women are seen worse with age and childbirth but still don't acknowledge BW have a worse deal not being able to start over like men can.

(To the poster who's never heard of men encouraging friends to cheat that's ridiculous, of course it happens just a often as with women &friends.)

Thanks so much for the support BHs. Really feeling the love. I don't suggest that BH have it easier.

I ADMIRE them. I wish BW found men like that. But then BH treat their WW like princesses & minimise BWs like this.

Stop projecting your contempt for WWs onto BW & all women. BWs deserve BETTER. We did everything right. I did everything RIGHT. But women look down on BW, WW do. Other BW judge. WH look down on them, even their own wives.

And BH too apparently. It's 'easier' being a BW is it. Mind movies easier? Our pain can be mollified? You forgot to mention women hold onto pain longer so BW (not wws) have to deal with this pain forever while everyone tells her she's doing it by choice. So when a BH finds it difficult its cause of emasculation, his brain, society. When it's a BW she's not 'dealing' with it correctly. She's not 'taking responsibility'. She's 'chosing' to be in pain.

I've never felt so alone. One kind of person who should understand &RESPECT BWs are BHs. But no, our pain is not enough to make you consider regarding women more highly when your red pill ideology says not to commit to them or trust them or respect them. Our pain isn't enough for you to actually think MORE highly of us for being the kind of women you CLAIM to want.

Guess BWs just can't win. Shame we can't just start over & have children at any age, make new families and not been seen as old and damaged, with a successful career behind us.

But I know not all BH have that last part but they certainly have the rest. even red pill says that. BW have NONE of that unless they're cheated on at 21. Right before she hits the 'wall' right guys?

Is it still easier being a BW. Giving your life to a man, your virginity &loyalty to get told you hit a fucking wall by a man just because he was cheated on a worse woman than you.

Lovely. But now you have to admit it's actually not easier for BWs. Imagine going through pregnancy/childbirth which is life threatening to get told you don't compare to your WHs OW. Is that enough pain for you BH?

Yes it's DIFFERENT because men and women are different. But it's not UNEQUAL and that IS what some of you are saying or implying. Women feel every pain as much as you. For unique pain men feel, women have their unique pain men would never possibly understand. Consider that before you suggest it can be fixed with money or cheap 'love' from WH which you KNOW means nothing. We don't want to know he was happy when he broke us or that he 'loves' us. We want to never have had to WONDER. Just like YOU want never to have to wonder about OM being better than you. Where do you think the pain goes, does it flow away with our periods?. No, it STAYS just like YOURS. We do NOT get over it. We happen to be often more committed to our kids having stable homes. Women say, i don't want to divorce cause he's a good dad. Men say my BW is such a good mom, I know the kids will be alright.

But BW do not feel BETTER. They just have LESS OPTIONS than BH. Red pill even agrees. Even when they stay out of LOYALTY, which red pill BH claim women don't have even though BWs have a WORLD of loyalty, BW do NOT get over it. It always hurts. Always.

How DARE so many of you ever suggest a BW has it easier in anyway than you.

Onebiglie, needless to say there are points I'd disagree with, but on the whole your post(s) are well received and I do agree. A good set of lessons for all to learn.

Onebiglie really good post!

Man, you mean some people think BHs have it worse. No way I would buy that. Betrayal is betrayal. Traumatizing as hell without regard to gender. I had no idea this was a concept, that one gender has it worse.

Man, you mean some people think BHs have it worse. No way I would buy that. Betrayal is betrayal. Traumatizing as hell without regard to gender. I had no idea this was a concept, that one gender has it worse.

Gotta say I see what OBL is saying here. I've seen it first-hand on some SI threads.

Though I'm with you Stinger - I personally think all betrayal is painful, no matter what other circumstances there might be. BS's deal with the same feelings of hurt and pain and disgust and sadness and all deserve to be heard and supported and treated with compassion and kindness.

OBL, damn lady. I wanna stand up and clap - and take you out for a margarita. Sing it sister.

Restricting expression because of feelings is, in my opinion, a poor substitute for growing a thicker hide.

Every day, people restrict their own speech. We do it voluntarily for the sake of whatever environment we're speaking in. ie. We don't drop the F-bomb when we're visiting our child's kindergarten.

People just don't use the kind of crudity we see so often applied to WW's in public. But, because we have the anonymity of the keyboard, there are folks who don't feel like they are in public. But you are, and you're speaking to a stranger, one who is at a particularly vulnerable stage of his life, and being read by people of all walks of life. All I'm saying is that if it's not something you'd say in church or in the grocery store, why say it?

It IS possible to make a point without being offensive to the point where someone needs a thicker skin.

Anyone who has been betrayed by someone they love knows how freakin HORRIBLE the pain is. This includes women, men, and people in same sex relationships.

Just because I'm a man doesn't mean that my thoughts and viewpoints represent all men just as any woman who comes on here doesn't speak for all women.

As I said earlier all cheaters are pathetic!!!

Onebiglie, I agree with a lot of what you said, but "we happen to be more often committed to our kids having stable homes" is WAY out of line and I totally disagree with this statement.

So a "stable home" is more important to women and women are more "committed" to this??

So now YOU speak for ALL women?? And you know this to be a fact??

In my world it's just as important to both my wife and I, and I know just as many women and men who are committed to this just as I know as many women and men who could give a damn about a "stable life for their kids".

My understanding of the term "toxic masculinity" was that it was not originally created to attack men. It was meant to identify and protect vulnerable boys. The concern was that societal pressure to be physically powerful, suppress your feelings ("big boys don't cry"), etc was damaging young men by making them feel ashamed of normal human emotions and vulnerability. Through that lens, the term refers to how men are taught to hate themselves, not to mistreat women (though the outcome can be frustrated rage that is directed at people of both genders).

Agreed. I don't know why so many men get bent out of shape regarding this term. It's not directed at EVERYTHING masculine. My thumbnail sketch of the word is... a nine-year old boy is crying to his father/father figure, but instead of receiving comfort, he's slapped in the back of the head and told to stop crying like a girl. I think most men would agree that's a toxic situation. The phrase was coined to describe THAT level of emotional manipulation, not to disparage all that is masculine.

The basic reason men treat WW's meaner than BW's treat WH's is BIOLOGY!!!

That, for sure, coupled with the "difficulty". Like it or not, the old "stud/slut" thing is easy to see here too, a guy who can easily get AP's and keep them as sex toys is seen, by many, as a success, because we know it's "hard" to do that. A woman who's get's lots of APs has no status conferred because basically all she's proven is she's good at saying "yes". Where a man, again, saying this will all disgust, who can get lots of AP's has "something" going for him. He's good looking, he's good with words, he's rich, he's powerful. Whatever it is, it's some positive indicator about his desirability and "market value" which does not exist for women in an A. A woman's value is determined far more by the type of man she can get to commit to her rather than the type of men she can sleep with.

I don't really understand why women always get the blame, but it's true.

In a PA, women "get the blame" because they are the "gatekeepers" of sex. They decide when, where, with who. Men wait to be "chosen" for sex, women are the team captain saying "I'll take him and him". It's not fair, I'm not arguing that, but until/unless the situation reverses (men constantly shooing women away who are pursing them for sex) nothing with change here, it's simply biology at play.

My issue with these sorts of threads is the vague vibe (imho anyways) that a BH is always hurt worse than a BW. Like somehow a BW's pain is less 'valid' because she doesn't have a penis. That underlying message really irritates me and isn't particularly helpful to anyone I don't think.

I would never say I was hurt "more" than someone else by the affair in general. I think that the PA was profoundly painful to me in a way that it's not to others, and I do think that line generally gender divides somewhat neatly. And the EA aspect of my W's A, I honestly couldn't care less about, it's a non-issue for me, where for others, it's "the issue". I am SURE that lots of people are more hurt by the EA than I was, and I strongly suspect I was more hurt by the PA than others.

There are some generalizations here, but I'd be interested to hear some further clarification on how the "BH has always lost the competition". Couldn't the same be said of BW's? If not, why not?

I think it probably could be said in some cases, but it really depends what's valuable to the BS. I strongly agree with the quoted above, I feel like I "lost" because the AP was able to easily get things I could not from my W. He got what I wanted, and did it easily and quickly. Does his W feel like she "lost"? IDK, but I kind of doubt it, she didn't want more sex from her H, she wanted him to be a good H and father, neither of which my W got from him either. She got cheap, easy sex and words that were complete make believe. I don't think his WW wanted either of those things, but I can tell you, I deeply wanted the sex that he got from her.

Another point I haven't seen mentioned yet, women can "affair up" much more easily and reliably than men can. My wife could easily sleep with someone famous/rich/model handsome, in fact, she'd barely even have to try, just offer and she'd get a pretty good acceptance rate. Where men, when they have an A, almost always have to go "down" because they aren't offering the "value" to many women of commitment, love, respect, honesty.. Or basically anything that women care about (or claim to care about) in a relationship other than sex. So, while my wife could probably sleep with a string of guys who were all "10's" in an evening, I would be MUCH more difficult/impossible for me to the same (at least without paying for it it would be).

BH can actually PROVE their child is theirs which it is 97% of the time

Our biology isn't even CLOSE to coming to internalize this yet, give it about 10,000 years and then maybe. Yes, we can know for sure today because of DNA, but our bodies don't know that at all, the same visceral fear is still there, just like we still fear the dark even though we live in houses and have guns to fend off basically any animal, our biology tells us "dark is dangerous".

How do you presume to think you know what human behavior comes from nature and what part comes from nurture?

If we're talking about sex here, well, pretty much all of recorded history has told the same story. Men fighting other men for sex with more/new women. Powerful men taking many wives/lovers. Men killing other men for "stealing" a lover. And this has been recorded in isolated societies and independently many times across pretty much all civilizations we know about.

I view toxic masculinity as that thing that is really harmful to men. This sexist idea that you have to be always so strong, not show emotions, never cry, react with aggression, be ready to have sex with anything and anyone at all times, and so on.

I thought toxic masculinity was something I had to shave off? That said, I do agree with your list, however, I also closely resemble that list. I show strength, I never show emotions, I never cry, I will react with aggression if pushed and yes, I'm pretty much ready to have sex at a moment's notice. Is that because I was "brainwashed" into it by society? IDK, but I can tell you, it feels pretty natural to me; I feel like it's "me" more than "doing what society expects of me".

One poster insisted that women have a rating and things like sexual history and weight make some unsuitable for quality males.

I think that was probably me, and I stand by that statement. However, and perhaps I didn't say this, but men have "ratings" too, they are just rated differently than women. If you'd like to find your attractiveness rating, there are plenty of sites to help with that and crowdsource a number for you that will likely be pretty darn accurate in determining your rating. And, weight is a hindrance to "higher rated males", just like being poor and living in your mom's basement is a hindrance to "higher rated females". Right? Wrong? IDK, but I do know it's "reality" and it's what we are dealing with based on our sexual preferences (in aggregate) between the genders. We can not like that we can all be "rated" but we can be.

I have seen a bh come on and tell everyone that he made his ww give him oral sex in their van and if she refused she was to get out and walk. I saw many people say that wasn't cool, but so many say "I can see how you got there".

Might as well, because I think this was me too. I've staunchly said 2 things about that poster, first off, he never should have done that, and 2nd, yes, I see how he got there and it was almost ENTIRELY his wife's fault, and not his. That does not excuse his actions, but it gives a REASON that happened, and she's the one who set those cards in motion. He never should have been in that situation in the first place, and his wife absolutely should NOT have let that situation persist and fester, if you really don't want to do it, leave. Don't pretend it didn't happen and wait for your BS to go nuts on you.

Again, the question isn't 'Are there differences between genders?'

The question is, 'Are the differences due to nature or nurture?'

And while that's an interesting intellectual conversation, what difference does it make "where it comes from" if it's undeniably there?

I can tell you from my experience that it very much seems that family, friends, society and the legal system has let my WW off easy-if not rewarded her, and has judged me more harshly. Everyone wonders what I did to make my WW cheat-it must have been horrible. It must have been some sort of subtle and insidious psychological abuse.

So true man. And one of the big reasons I love this board, because that kind of crap gets shut down quick here. But yes, that's exactly what I got in the beginning, "you weren't tending to her needs". Most of all, believe it or not, from professionals (marriage/IC).

It's as if people are surprised that women enjoy having sex for the sake of sex.

Given that there are close to 0 WW stories on here that have anything to do with "enjoying sex" with the AP, I think you might grant us a pass on this one. Honestly, the more I read about A's, the more and more twisted I got about sex. I thought women had sex because they wanted to have sex and were horny. Pretty much same reason I wanted to have sex in the past. Then the concept of "kibbles" comes around, and "sex for things/words/etc" becomes, by FAR, the most common reason given for WW's having sex (or kinky sex) in an A, now I have no idea anymore.

I have yet to see the man on SI who truly resents the resources they put into a child they raised that they discovered Isn’t their biological child. Angry at the lies, yes. Love the child, yes.

Ask them if they could go back and be the person who got their wife pregnant instead of the OM and see what response you get. The child is an independent person, of course you can and do love them. It doesn't remove the pain or fear of being forced to raise, against your will/knowledge, another man's child.

Yikes, making the claim that women are more often committed to their kids and family stability? Now, that type of sexist bigotry is toxic. How does one even allow such thoughts to be published with no shame. Doesn't get much more sexist than that.

Stinger let's see if any other women call her out for this bullshit comment.

One would hope they do.

I dont agee with her just like i dont agree with DV but neither one of them were trying to devalue other people on purpose .

Otoh ( to stinger ) Rating people and slut shaming is a devaluation ; not just one that you have noted but one you agree with .

I hope you can understand the difference in intention