SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The premise of this post floored so many people and I didn’t see that coming. I thought this was super common.

I suspect that may have something to do with where the sample is coming from. I don't think it's nearly as uncommon as it is being made out to be here.

As for priorities- yes, sex is a priority to me so we found ways to make it work. Sneaking out for nooners, taking advantage of time on weekends when the kids are at birthday parties or out with friends or relatives, etc. It's been tougher during the pandemic, but having my BF living here means that one adult can entertain the child while I sneak off with my other partner for some quality time. That's made a world of difference.

Sex is part of how I need to connect with my partners- I feel disconnected if we go too long without having any. Both my husband and my boyfriend have lower sex drives and would be okay if it slid a little bit in favour of other priorities. I would not be okay with this, so I make sure it doesn't happen :)

I understand sex isn't at that level of priority for everyone, but it's why I always chime in when people describe sex as a want, or as a nice-to-have. It's not that way for everyone, and that needs to be recognized as valid too.

[This message edited by PSTI at 6:25 PM, March 17th (Wednesday)]

To Hiking Out:

Maybe someone else can chime in and tell me if what I am saying is normal or not. Apparently, this porn thing we did was out of the normal range of what most of y'all do.

Nope. Not at all out of "the normal range" for us.

I, for one, didn't want to leave you out here alone twisting in the wind.

TMI, but here goes:

I actually *love* porn, always have.

(GAWD, RIP MY IN BOX. JUST DON'T, OK? LOL. I DO *NOT* LOVE PORN FROM *EVERYONE.*)

I'm not indiscriminate and I do not appear to experience diminishing returns. I'm not 'escalating' to achieve the next 'high.' But, what punches my buttons punches them every time.

Fortunately Husband and I have similar and overlapping tastes. Most frequently it's something we share, that we 'do' together. That being said, it really doesn't bother me if Husband views it on his own time, solo.

I don't speak up about porn much on SI because I full well understand that it's a trigger for many people.

Some people object to it on moral grounds.

Some people find it threatening in that they cannot put up a strong enough mental and emotional buffer zone with it. I suspect that this has its roots in comparisons and feelings of inadequacy. I have empathy for this. I too am A Woman of a Certain Age and I surely do not look like the young (but firmly ADULT/of legal age) women on the screen.

I may have a built in buffer zone in our relationship in that Husband's 'preferences' tend to be on 'activities' and attitudes rather than specific attributes. He enjoys a wide variety of female body types and appearances. He has some general preferences and no surprise, I fit that general description: I mean, the man didn't marry me because he finds me physically unattractive.

This is a huge word salad to say that if the man spent hours a day in his bathroom with his phone, never approached me for sex, and locked onto a specific set of physical attributes consistently that had no similarity to me, yeah, I'd find that challenging. That's not what's happening with us.

Anyway.

Porn has had its place in our hysterical bonding and then in our more slow, steady recovery.

As you've indicated, it can be a visual and mental stimulus that supplants mind movies.

I've found that for me, and Husband has concurred with this for himself, it takes the spotlight off of me and my immediate response. It gets me out of my own head. I'm not frozen in the stage lights. I believe you have described a similar experience here.

It also 'lightens the mood.' Hey, we are here for sex. It's only sex. It's just sex. I'm not devaluing the sex- it's HUGE. (Trust me, I KNOW. Our dead bedroom interval is forever tattooed on my psyche. Sex is HUGE and sex can be glue in a relationship.) But for this roughly 30 minute period, we're simply going to have sex. We're not going to analyze the relationship, or try to fix anything or ourselves or each other, we aren't struggling with the list of chores or the budget, we don't care if there are dust bunnies under the bed or the laundry isn't folded- this is just sex. All sex, only sex, just sex.

Porn is the yellow brick road that leads to Just Sex, at least for us, anyway.

Also, and this is super weird on my part, I think so anyway:

ASSUMING FULLY INFORMED CONSENT WITH COMPLETE AGENCY ALL AROUND, FOR EVERYONE:

I appear to be a relatively rare female voyeur. I like to watch. I refer to this tendency of mine as being 'sexually lazy.' One of the things I enjoy about porn is that both of us are getting hot and bothered and I'm not the one performing. I get to sit back and receive stimulation, but the attention and the pressure to perform *and* respond isn't on me.

In this way, I kinda get it, why so many guys seem to love porn.

Also, I do enjoy, IN THE SAFETY OF A COMMITTED, OTHERWISE ENFRANCHISED RELATIONSHIP, playing with 'objectification,' for both of us.

Sometimes it's hella fun to put down all of our other personas and responsibilities and obligations and just be a damned sex toy.

I don't object to it. In fact, I rather enjoy it.

Sometimes, often times in fact, Hubs is my sex toy too.

It would be different if that was all there was to our relationship, but honestly, I don't mind that this aspect is present in our relationship.

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 6:27 PM, March 17th (Wednesday)]

Duplicate post.

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 6:24 PM, March 17th (Wednesday)]

I have been following this post from the beginning trying to figure out how to express myself. I am torn in so many ways.

I don’t want to threadjack. So, just know that it’s normal for us too. We use it as a tool not a replacement. Sometimes just as a starting off point...”would you like me to try that with you?”

I would have been upset as well if the ipad were in between us. Better for it to be shared.

I totally get your feeling of insecurity (me too). By his own choice, my FWH hasn’t watched porn on his own since DD. I decide when and what we watch. His AP was 16 yrs younger than me and had no children. I pushed out three babies and was starting to have hot flashes. It took me almost 18 months to feel the same level of physical confidence I felt before and even some days I wonder if my aging body is enough. I know logically that I am enough but the fear is there.

I feel a lot of compassion and empathy for what you are going through. I enjoy your wisdom and perspective. Thanks for this topic. It’s given me lots to think about.

I totally get your feeling of insecurity (me too). By his own choice, my FWH hasn’t watched porn on his own since DD. I decide when and what we watch. His AP was 16 yrs younger than me and had no children. I pushed out three babies and was starting to have hot flashes. It took me almost 18 months to feel the same level of physical confidence I felt before and even some days I wonder if my aging body is enough. I know logically that I am enough but the fear is there.

Yes, I think that is a big part of it. Also I have gained 10 pounds since I found out. I need to get back to running and taking care of myself. Beyond that, it's more about craving the connection. I have stayed so detached from him for the most part since I found out that reengaging is hard. I know it's needed. At the same time, since I have detached I think I am a bit connection starved too.

We usually watch together, it's not typically separated, but if one of us is down on the other you can't watch and do that at the same time. That's why I don't think it offended me in the past. Add the lack of connection I feel and it was too triggering. I am done sharing my body and my intimacy without him being mentally present with me. I have thought a lot about what people had to say and I generally feel like maybe he hasn't fully recovered from his affair. I am not disheartened with that, I think it's normal, but I waiver whether I want to actually talk about that aspect or not. As long as he continues to be consistent and make progress, that part will more than likely go away in time. That sounds like pick me dance, I don't think it is. I have simply been a WS and know that you don't go so far in one trajectory without needing some time to wind that back down. I don't see it being about the AP, I see it being more about the highs from it. So, it's probably just my gut saying "hey he's not safe!", but I already know he's not. No WS is this soon out.

I think the changes we have agreed to are positive though.

I feel a lot of compassion and empathy for what you are going through. I enjoy your wisdom and perspective. Thanks for this topic. It’s given me lots to think about.

I appreciate your compassion and empathy I am hearing in this message too. I am sorry you are going through this.

I thought this thread was about your thinking that your H is using you as a masturbatory tool, your refusal to play that role, and his unwarranted accusation that you're weaponizing sex.

Now you're saying that porn sometimes enhances your sexual activity.

It looks like both are true - sometimes you like the porn, sometimes you don't. I don't know how 'normal' porn use is, but sometimes works/sometimes doesn't sure seems normal for anything. But 'normal' doesn't matter (within broad limits, IMO) between freely consenting adults.

A human gut is pretty sensitive. If you don't like what you're getting, you probably are right to question what's happening. Have you considered talking about what you're sensing or asking your H to change something instead of just stopping and walking away?

To be explicit, I think your H was into the porn, not into you, the time that set this thread off. I don't think you did anything wrong. I don't think you weaponize sex against your H. I do think - maybe 'hope' is better here - that walking away is probably not be the best route to pleasure, and I think the more pleasure, the better, all other things being equal.

******

Are you using sex as a pick-me dance? As a WS, it was really important, IMO, to show your H that you wanted him. As a BS, though, it's normal to hold back. I think it's normal to do some grudge fucking. I think it's normal to do a lot of sex for your own pleasure. Are you doing that? Is your H showing he wants you?

IMO, a madhatter needs to act sometimes as if they are only a BS and sometimes as if they are only a WS. IOW, being a madhatter doesn't average out and reduce the pain or work of recovery. Rather, you are as much as BS as the rest of us non-madhatter BSes. You are as much a WS as, say, my W is. You're 100% BS and 100% fWS. It's hard to explain....

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:05 PM, March 18th (Thursday)]

I thought this thread was about your thinking that your H is using you as a masturbatory tool, your refusal to play that role, and his unwarranted accusation that you're weaponizing sex.

Now you're saying that porn sometimes enhances your sexual activity.

I think you missed some posts. I am not contradicting myself. It WAS something that I felt enhanced prior to DDAY The thread evolved when posters pressed me as to if it was ever consensual.

I do feel like he was using me as a masturbatory tool post my dday. What I told as a back story probably just evolved what posts moving forward sounded like.

It is a big problem, but most of my relief on this issue was his response to the problem. He was very understanding when I explained it all to him, and offered a lot of solutions.

We nixed porn use altogether, indefinitely if not permanently.

Are you using sex as a pick-me dance? As a WS, it was really important, IMO, to show your H that you wanted him. As a BS, though, it's normal to hold back. I think it's normal to do some grudge fucking. I think it's normal to do a lot of sex for your own pleasure. A

Are you doing that? Is your H showing he wants you?

Maybe sometimes?

Hard to assess that, because I think as a spouse you tend to sometimes have sex because our partner wants to. But, I do initiate sex sometimes for various reasons- mostly because I want or need sex.

Sex and connection to me are interlinked. We both feel more connected through sex. Right now I am willing to try and continue the progress of our relationship so long as he continues to work on himself in alignment with becoming a safe partner for me . That was one of the rules of engagement I mentioned we put in. The timing of revamping our sex life is strange, but it had to happen now because our go-tos are very triggering.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:19 PM, March 18th (Thursday)]

I've been mulling BSR's March 14 paradigm-shattering post for some time. I say paradigm-shattering because the mantra here on SI is to view the cheating in a vacuum, as if it is a sort of illness in the WS that must first be separately cured. BSR suggest that it might be the case that the cheating is a symptom of an illness in the marriage. I've danced around that concept in some of my posts (and been lambasted for it on occasion). I do harbor a private belief that this can be the case.

Sometimes.

Sometimes it's not. Sometimes, the WS falls into a feedback loop vortex and imagines a marital hellscape where none exists. I think it's important to remember that the details matter and every situation is sui generis, at least with respect to the degree to which objectively dysfunctional elements of the marriage itself are contributors to the WS's decision to cheat.

BSR suggest that it might be the case that the cheating is a symptom of an illness in the marriage. I've danced around that concept in some of my posts (and been lambasted for it on occasion). I do harbor a private belief that this can be the case.

Other issues in the marriage can have an additive effect which when combined with the brokenness help justify to the WS crossing over the boundaries to an A. This reason this is discounted is that it's hard to determine in many cases if the issues were real before the A, or just spring from rationalizations that come from the wayward to excuse the A. You also need to separate cause from effect. A BS is going to react to how the wayward is behaving regardless of knowing about the A.

In the end a healthy person would have taken steps to fix the other issues instead. Even if the steps led to divorce. The WS instead drops the infidelity bomb which is destructive to all involved.

I think it's important to remember that the details matter and every situation is [unique], at least with respect to the degree to which objectively dysfunctional elements of the marriage itself are contributors to the WS's decision to cheat.

There is no justification for infidelity. I think you've been around long enough to know that the state of the marriage has absolutely nothing at all to do with why a person cheats. If there was one commonality between us all (aside from being betrayed, that is), then I could point to that contributing factor and say that you're right.

There is no justification for infidelity.

Marriages can be bad for a wide range of reasons. However, in many cases, it is because of a combination of poor communication skills, conflict avoidance, and unhealthy life choices by one or both partners. People with those traits who find themselves in a marriage with issues continue to be poor communicators and/or conflict avoiders and/or unhealthy lifestyle choosers.

There is no justification for doing any of those things, yet people do them.

First of all I'll admit I did NOT read all the posts.

I mainly read the Original Post:

Heres my take:.

1. He's not hiding the porn from you. (I know your a WW, but don't let it get to you. As a BH, let me tell you, he's using it to try to forget about certain things you may or may not have done with your AP.) Us what he's doing, start to mimic some of the acts and tell your husband, do you want to watch it or watch you do it to him. (Think of this, is it work the fight? I mean he's there with you. Gaining some trust with him would go along way of helping him heal, even if it was years ago. It still goes thru his mind, even if he won't tell you it is)

2. Something to think of here. My first marriage ended with a Divorce. My second marriage, which I've been married a long long time now is with a woman who has the thought. Never ever weaponize sex. She actually encourages porn use together. She says it gives us new ideas and spices up our sex life. She once was told, if she keeps her husband happen and well sexed in the bedroom, he'll be less likely to ever cheat. I got to admit, she's probably right on that. She initiates more than I ever do these days and I will admit I love it.

Now as you read this, you'll probably wonder about #1. Again he's not hiding it from you which I think is a good thing. I think you should us that information and try to use it to your advantage.

Example, pull up a video or two and ask him to come to bed and watch it together. Tell him you want to do what they are doing in the video or certain acts. (Again turn it to your advantage).

I'll give it like this. Remember the time you were under 21? Remember how beer and alcohol were the "Forbidden Fruit" and you couldn't get enough of it? When you turned 21, soon, those thoughts vanished because you could get it anytime you want?

As a guy, if you turn the porn tables on him, and you start initiating and having him watch it with you and start doing the "Fantasies" or "acts" with the videos with him, he'll probably slow his watching. Heck he'll be getting a lot of the action with you, which will probably bring him closer to you.

Again, let me say, I DID NOT read the 4 pages of responses. Its up to you how to approach this. BUT by making this an issue, you could be making him resent you as you stepped outside the marriage first. Seriously, yeah, I know its bothering you, but ask yourself this question. Is it really worth the fight with him, or can you use this to help draw him closer to you.

If I were you, I'd use it to bring him closer to you. I'll admit, as a man, we are pigs. We can forgive a lot if we are getting the best sex of our lives.

At the end of the day, you want him to be happy with you right? In turn, if your partner is happy with you, he'll do his best to try to make you happy with him. We all do somethings that our partners don't like, but when I see something that I dislike, I do ask my self the question, is this worth fighting over? (And as a wayward spouce, if I were you, I would not fight over sex, affection, I love yous, etc at all.. You could take him back into a bad place) (Now finances, running the home, etc are a different thing, as they really don't have any links to any affairs, but sex does unfortunately)

Again, yeah I know people won't agree with me, just my advice & opinion.

BFTG - I hear you, it's the chicken and the egg type argument.

I don't disagree that the status of the marriage is often impacted by the skills of the two people in them. I don't think I had HUGE issues. I don't think our marriage had HUGE issues. Some of the changes I needed to make were so simple that I could smack myself - but the way they accumulated, resentments became cancers, and as BFTG said I was in a feedback loop that was a huge detriment for my mental health, our marriage, etc. Unraveling that and changing it all was harder than it would have been had I done it much earlier.

I do not hear what you are saying the same way unhinged is hearing it. It's not a blame it on the marriage or the spouse that you are really talking about. The reason I say this is because I believe that because I was lacking skills and mindfulness in my marriage that the marriage SEEMED lacking to me. And because I was avoidant I didn't realize how much control I actually do have of breaking the patterns within the marriage that made me unhappy.

I think it's okay when you are as far out as me, and have taken full accountability for the cheating to now go back and look at the premarriage. Maybe I have been more successful talking about that as a WS on this site because I was a BS before I started really bringing much of that stuff up here.

I won't speak for BSR but I think what she was saying is once the WS does the work, where is the tipping point of thinking about pre-A issues. And to her post on this thread specifically, she pointed out that through my accountability, I took on maybe more of the preA issues than I should have and never went back to revisit the narrative. She was 100% right.

We do have to be able to talk about Pre A at some point, and BSR I believe was wanting to explore where that occurs. If I had brought it up pre BS status, I think it would have been received okay but I would have gotten a lot more reminders to stay accountable and to be grateful for the second chance. It's not mysterious that a BS would feel triggered by a WS seemingly complaining about their BS. We don't talk about the fact ALL these things can be true at once - that the marital state can be in a bad way AND we still be remorseful for the cheating.

My husband's status as a WS has not changed my remorse over what I did to him. I think often people (well meaning) want to push me in the other direction of taking stands because they hear the humility that I have gained as the WS still there. I can't make both things not exist - my need to take a stand and re-examine the "before any affairs" marriage/spouse AND my remorse for the damage that did in fact contribute in many ways to where we are now.

I am 100 percent responsible for my cheating. He is 100 percent responsible for his cheating. But, when it comes to fixing the relationship, that's only going to take you so far. You still have to go back and look at the complexities of the environment the two of you create together as you try and meld your needs and wants. That historical stuff sometimes is all you can draw from.

I think BSR was suggesting (because as a WS on this site it's true) that sometimes that leeway needs to be given to what the WS is trying to express about the spouse or marriage and it doesn't have to circle back to the typical things we say to WS here. We just don't have a ton of veteran/reformed WS still posting for support so it really never will come to fruition. I probably wouldn't be at this point if I hadn't become a BS.

Anyway, I am glad I posted this, even though he and I were able to make progress on this matter pretty quickly. I learned a lot about myself in this post, and between this and therapy I am seeing that I need to reassess boundaries around intimacy and that posters were right I was making a stand because my gut couldn't take it any more.

I want to continue to have a robust sex life that makes us both happy, but there are some things that have to be eliminated for a while if not permanently, mostly surrounding things that humiliate or dehumanize me. That is subjective and will require communication. I am hoping that where we lose some things we gain some big things that we have not explored or experienced that results in a greater intimacy. I had normalized some of the dehumanizing things long ago, but since his affair they trigger me and are no longer acceptable. I have been working in therapy on how SA has impacted the lack of boundaries and how those patterns have played out. This work would have been missed as I feel I healed from my affair some time ago.

But, both things are true to me. WS are 100 percent responsible for the cheating AND the cheating didn't happen in a vaccumn.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:44 PM, March 26th (Friday)]

I re-read BSR's post and I did not read/receive it to include

it might be the case that the cheating is a symptom of an illness in the marriage

Rather, I read BSR's post to say that HO/OP, when working through her recovery after her A, and in taking responsibility for her choice to have an A, she may have put all (or too much) of the responsibility for NON A-related issues on her "plate" (so to speak). At the start of the post, BSR writes:

After you explored your FOO, after you became more self-aware, after you took accountability for your toxic decisions, you didn't circle back around to properly examine the legitimacy of your resentment.

I read that to say that after HO took full responsibility for her CHOICE to have an A, she may not have taken a more balanced or objective look at resentments, outside of that choice.

And I wholeheartedly agree with BSR. No secret I'm not in R. However, I've always known that IF we were to R, my WH had legitimate beefs with my behavior in our M. I'm no more perfect than any other human, and applies to being a spouse as well.

BSR goes on to say:

since WS are such crappy judges of reality, so talented at blame shifting and rewriting, it's intimidating as hell to trust ourselves enough to claim a legitimate grudge in the marriage

But I think (and I could be wrong) she was referring to how to approach resentments AFTER the WS has "done the work" and AFTER there has been healing about the A.

In any event, I never got the impression from BSR's post (or any of her posts, for that matter) that cheating is a SYMPTOM of problems in the M. Not saying that folks who are unhappy in their Ms don't cheat - some do. AND, some people who claim to be happy in their Ms also cheat (and I won't go into the heathen Esther Perel's malarkey from her "why happy people cheat" articles).

ETA: after reading HO's last post, I just gotta say that sometimes the cheating DOES happen "in a vacuum", e.g. (at a minimum) SA, serial cheaters and LTAs. I would also include folks in open relationships that still cheat (break the open relationship's boundaries).

Here on SI we've seen cheating during the dating/honeymoon phases of a M, where I would be hard pressed to agree that the behavior was somehow prompted by/related to the RELATIONSHIP rather than whatever is "off" in the WS. My own WH was lying to me about his LTA AP when we were first dating - and I think we would both agree probably some of the happiest times in our entire 30yr relationship.

I am of the ilk that the MINUTE the collective "we" starts connecting dots between issues in the M and the choice to have an A, it's a damn slippery effing slope to "blame" being cast anywhere but squarely on the shoulders of the WS. I also completely cringe at that stuff when I think of a new BS reading it (here or any any of the God-awful books out there). BS are often already blaming themselves for their partner's choice to cheat, and I was certainly in that space for awhile.

No matter what, I ALWAYS had to take responsibility for my role in any marital dysfunction - that was, is and will always be a "me" problem. But no BS should EVER take one iota of responsibility for the WS' choice to cheat, and I may be ignorant, but truly fail to see how characterizing it as "not in a vacuum" does not imply that "but for" the M dysfunction - that the BS contributed to - the A would not have happened.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:50 PM, March 26th, 2021 (Friday)]

GMC - Thanks. I think you captured what I read from her as well. I also think you explained it better than I did.

after reading HO's last post, I just gotta say that sometimes the cheating DOES happen "in a vacuum"

What follows makes me believe you are thinking I mean that the BS did something to cause it?

NO. I am not saying that at all. I am not sure how I could have been more clear about that.

I am saying it's not absent of the relationship. The relationship is there, it effects perceptions, there is a lot to unravel afterwards about ones perceptions.

If your husband is a serial cheater, you are going to be effected by that even if you don't KNOW he's a serial cheater. There is a reaction to everything in a relationship.

I had a friend who had panic attacks for years. Her husband was a serial cheater. They divorced, and years later no panic attacks. Why? Because there were all these underlying things that were there caused by his cheating even though she didn't know about it. Therefore, she had reactions to them. And, as a result, that modified his reactions to her. Cause and effect. NOT BLAME. I don't blame her for his affairs. I think he gave her some of the problems she had and then he used them as justifications. The things he said about her were true, but there was no recognition to the fact he created that dynamic. The same sometimes happens in reverse.

So, when I say doesn't happen in a vaccumn, it is about all the ways we react to each other in the relationship. If you have a toxic WS (I wasn't toxic outwardly) then the BS may come across as a shrew because they react to that. if the BS is an alcoholic, and the couple is codependent as a result, the codependency doesn't get erased. And there are still complaints of the WS that will have to be addressed after the WS has done their work.

Cause and effect, baggage, history...that's all what makes it not happen in a vaccumn. But when we react to WS, we react to them as it does. A new WS makes sense, as you said they need to take accountability and do the work. Noone made them cheat, and nothing the BS did/didn't do would have kept it from happening. But, once they have taken accountability, and come to the site to start dissecting some of the past patterns, we put it back to their cheating in some way. An accountable WS doesn't always need that, they need to figure out what to do with the rest of it. That's why I made that statement. Relationships are complex things.

Maybe the only time cheating happens in a vaccumn is a single AP? They can go on and fix themselves and be done. That is the only time I can think of that maybe it doesn't apply.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:01 PM, March 26th (Friday)]

HO - thanks for clarification. I was reading in conjunction with BFTG's "symptom" post and may have gotten some things conflated, so your reply clarified. Thank you.

:-)

I understand. I will say that people here often do not understand when I say I don't think my husband would have cheated had I not, that I am taking blame for his affair. I do not take any accountability for his decision to cheat and lie to me.

What I do take accountability for is destroying him and our marriage. I can recognize that he may have cheated during a different tragedy or life event he couldn't cope with. But, that's not what happened. He still has to work on himself and fix things that a normal WS has to. He could have gotten a divorce, gone to therapy, or done any number of other things.

Cause and effect. He used the resentments he was holding as fuel towards entitlement the same as I did. Recognizing the precipitating event is not the same as accepting blame. That's why what I write sometimes is confusing, there is a dynamic at play here that isn't there unless you are in a madhatter situation.

He could have had a death of a parent and reacted in the same way, we still wouldn't dismiss that his parent did in fact die even though we know that wasn't the reason, the reason was his coping and all that entails.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:40 PM, March 26th (Friday)]

I understand. I will say that people here often do not understand when I say I don't think my husband would have cheated had I not, that I am taking blame for his affair. I do not take any accountability for his decision to cheat and lie to me.

*THIS IS MY OPINION*. As a BS, when my Ex-Wife cheated on me, it changed my whole outlook on the marriage. The marriage as I knew it completely changed the moment D-Day hit. All the time going nuts trying to figure out what was going on, all the time completely trusting my ex, then to find out it wasn't me at all, but her cheating.

At that point, I lost respect for my marriage, my wife and my morals pertaining to our relationship. No matter what anyone says, as a betrayed spouse, this is how I felt.

Now I'm not saying this applies to Hikingout or anyone else, but this applied to me. Again I lost all respect for my marriage, my wife and my overall outlook at the situation I was in.

When I confronted my wife with affair, it basically snapped her out of her affair fog. She was willing to do anything to try to save the marriage at that point. Now I know I probably shouldn't have done the following but I did, again I was hurt and really just didn't care. I told her if we had any chance of working it out, we had to have a threesome with her and her best friend (who was single). It was arranged several times and my Ex-wife thought things were good. I still had divorce papers served to her. She eventually asked why I went with the threesome, I replied back, so she would have memories of me touching another woman, but at least I didn't hide it from her or go behind her back.

Yeah I was childish about it, but honestly, I'd NEVER EVER would have done that if she didn't cheat on me first. She just didn't realize the amount of destruction an affair has on a individual or marriage.

I met another woman later in life after the divorce. I ended up marrying this woman. Would I ever do something similar to her? Heck no! But if she ever cheated on me, would I, probably. I honor my vows and promises unless someone breaks it to me. Thats just the type of person I am.

Again thats me, that may not be HikingOuts Husband. Before anyone lectures me about how wrong I was, I remind you, my Ex-Wife cheated first and the instant I found out, I was not bound by our vows, as she broke them first. The marriage was destroyed the instant she stepped out of it.

Anyway, thats my perspective, wrong or right, its how I handled it.

A person's vulnerability to an affair is 100% on them and them alone. The state of a marriage, stress at work or school, death in the family, what-the-fuck-ever, is completely and utterly irrelevant. External factors are all too often used as an excuse, but the fault always lies within.

ETA:

I will say that people here often do not understand when I say I don't think my husband would have cheated had I not, that I am taking blame for his affair.

Yes, you are taking blame for his affair and I think you're doing yourself a tremendous disservice.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 3:38 PM, March 26th (Friday)]