SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Bear with me, as this may be long and a little disjointed. I first joined/posted in September of last year after I found out my WH was on a dating site, emailing, sexting and sending/receiving explicit pictures to multiple women. He swore he would stop, we did some counseling (marriage counseling, which was a terrible mistake) and we tried to work on reconciliation. I told him I felt like the counselor wasn't working because she wasn't getting to the root of the problem. She basically told me I will never know the full truth about what happened, so I need to get over it and move on 🙄 He was getting frustrated because I wasn't "getting over it." I was often told, it's been __ months, why are you still upset and crying...um, I dunno because my husband of 17 years cheated on me! I told him it was going to take years to rebuild the trust, not months.

Fast forward to after the new year and I was on the hunt for a new counselor (an individual counselor for me). I started to get a feeling in my gut that something wasn't right. Last Sunday, an

out of town number called his found and I just missed picking it up. I asked him about it and he said he didn't know who it was, probably a wrong number. I just knew he was lying. While he was showering, I looked at his phone and the number was deleted from his call list. Looked at deleted and blocked messages and he had some voicemails from that number and another dating back to early February. I listened to them and they were from a woman, basically saying baby I love you, talk to me, why are you blocking me, etc. So I confronted him and he said he didn't know who it was. I looked at him and he said, "I know my marriage is on the rocks, do you think I'm stupid enough to talk to anyone else?" I called both numbers, but there was no answer at either one, so I texted. I asked who they were trying to get in touch with and one responded this guy with a picture of my WH. She told me they talked that morning (while I was asleep after working all night on Saturday). So I went downstairs and confronted him again with the text evidence and he admitted it.

It gets better. After piecing together stuff from both of them (I gave her my number and we texted), I found out they've been talking since January. He told her he loved her and she was planning to visit next month (she's in Colorado, we're in Louisiana). He told her he was single and didn't tell her about our kids, but the best part yet---he proposed to her with MY wedding ring. I hadn't been wearing it because I just couldn't look at it, it reminded me of his broken promises. He tooka picture of our pool and said he wanted to swim with her. He sent her a picture of our dog, which fun fact, has the same name as her. So everytime I see the dog, I have to think about what he did.

He said he thinks he's a sex addiction. He's always had an issue with porn, which as been ongoing in our relationship. He wants another chance 🙄 and started counseling last week. I don't even know who he is anymore. I didn't even cry when I found out this time. I guess I was expecting it to happen again since he never got to the root of why he cheated last time.

Which brings me to my point-I don't know if he has an addiction or he's just a cheater. Many of the things I've read the last week sound similar to the way he acts. He says it wasn't about the sex, it was more about the attention or the thrill of how the woman would respond to him. He said he realized he went over the line when he asked her to marry him (guess it's good to know he has a limit 🙄. He said he would never meet someone in person because it was the fantasy of it and knowing it was a fantasy and not real. He also told me he downloaded an AI app (like a robot) and tried talking to that so that he wouldn't be talking to a real person because he felt guilty about what he was doing, but felt like he didn't have the control to stop.

So now, he wants me to give him another chance since he's getting help this time. I feel empty inside. I don't have it in me to wait until he does it again. I'm glad he's getting help because he obviously has a problem, I just don't know if I can support him.

I did go house hunting last week and I spoke to two attorneys.

He sounds like a typical unremorseful, serial cheater.

Only a CSAT can diagnose sex addiction.

It sounds like he is grasping for excuses.

False R is horrible. Proposing to another woman, with YOUR ring, in beyond horrible.

Sex addict, or serial cheater, the end result is the same. A lifetime of pain for you.

You deserve better.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:14 PM, March 21st (Sunday)]

Do you want to reconcile or not??

Forget his counseling and sex addiction snd his stupid explanations. Yes he is that stupid knowing his marriage was rocky to chest yet again.

Do you want to reconcile with a stupid person who took a gamble or risk and lost? Odds are he will do it again.

Hi Ruby!

I'm sorry you had reason to find us, but glad that you posted.

Below I'm going to copy and paste a response I gave in our Spouses/Partners of SAs thread down in I Can Relate.

Does it matter whether he has an actual addiction or not?

To piggy back off of this, does it matter to you if it is an addiction or not? Will that change your course of action? Does that change your level of tolerance for his behaviors?

I'm trying to spin the focus on yourself. So maybe the better question is do you identify as the spouse of a sex addict? The best way to determine that is to analyze your own feelings about the behaviors. Does the literature you've read ring true to you? Does reading our stories give you a pang of recognition? If so, is that recognition uncomfortable? Validating? Both?

Whether or not he is a "true" addict is unfortunately kind of irrelevant, at least in terms of changing his behavior. Because only he is in control of his own actions. If identifying as an addict is his impetus for change then that's great! But you can't drag him kicking and screaming to get a diagnosis and/or seek treatment, he has to want that.

So what will help you the most? Does seeking out support for yourself from groups like this one aid you in your healing? If so, then stick with us.

It may be helpful to you to read through this thread and see if you identify heavily with any of the thoughts/feelings expressed here. It may help you to sort out your own feelings on what you've experienced.

The only way I can see identifying him as an SA helping you, is if it gets you further along in your healing. His calling it an addiction doesn't obligate you to help him with his healing.

So now, he wants me to give him another chance since he's getting help this time. I feel empty inside. I don't have it in me to wait until he does it again. I'm glad he's getting help because he obviously has a problem, I just don't know if I can support him.

You can be happy for him that he is getting help for an obvious problem AND you can want absolutely nothing to do with supporting him through it. Those two things can be simultaneously true, and you don't have to feel bad about it.

You are not obligated to help someone who hurt you. They may change, and if so, good for them. You still shouldn't be expected to let this person back into your life. If you feel like you'll just be sitting around waiting for the other shoe to drop, you're not alone. Many of us have felt that way. It's not bad to want to avoid that.

RubyRed82

Your second paragraph in the original post hits me like a ton of bricks. The entire "catch me if you can BS" is the kicker.

When I caught my spouse one time, it was with a camera hidden in our house. I had tuned into a live feed just in time to see him finishing putting on clothes.

I told her I was worried she was taking advantage of my night out of the house and having an affair. She said she did have her friend stop over but they just smoked on the porch.

I repeated myself a little more forcefully and she repeated herself a little more forcefully.

I said I think he came in the house and she got angry and started cussing at me.

I said I had a camera in house and told her where.

She said "fuck" and said no more.

This feels a lot like what you went through. Some people will NEVER admit to anything unless you find out.

I am making a rational decision to get out, but my emotional part of my mind is not ready to go. When my emotional mind lags, I remind myself (10, 20, 30 times a day... as many times as it takes) that she has never displayed the ability to admit anything that I had not caught her in.

I wasn't trying to just talk about myself, but I really want to encourage you to think about whether or not he has ever displayed the ability to admit anything that you did not find out first. Our stories sound similar in that regard; the back and forth that you described is the same. (sounds like it anyway)

I wish you luck.

Just want to echo HeHadADoubleLife - what does it matter to YOU?

Only a CSAT can make the diagnosis. And I can say that an SA is in many ways a harder beast to ever tame (think about how many alcoholics fall off the wagon? Now, imagine that "falling off the wagon" means having your husband's penis "fall" into another woman's vagina?)

You can read in the "spouses/partners of sex addicts" thread in the "I can Relate" forum here on SI to see the struggles of those living with SA.

I always recommend - SA or not- the two-part Marnie Breecker interview on Duane Osterlind's The Addicted Mind podcast. That is solely about the trauma of being a BS. Breecker & Osterlind went on to make the Helping Couples Heal podcast, which can provide a lot more insight. TBH, I don't know if my WH is - or is not- a diagnosed SA (the online test had him borderline - I don't know what his CSAT has said, and I do NOT trust my WH to tell me the truth on that front).

Whether he is an SA or not, it sounds like S-Anon (for the BS of sex addicts) may be helpful. You'll have to reach out and expect them to call back & interview you (to try and weed out the lookie loos). You may want to attend a meeting or two and see if you find anything beneficial (this is NOT to change or control your WS' behaviors... it's to help YOU find some emotional space and clarity to help YOU make decisions that are in YOUR best interest).

They also have books for sale on their website.

If he IS diagnosed as SA by a CSAT, they may very well recommend in patient treatment (similar to alcoholism).

There is a book called "mending a shattered heart" that may also offer some help/guidance (it's what my CSAT recommended I read when I first saw her). And YOU can also avail yourself of a CSAT, whether or not your WH is a Dx SA. A CSAT should be trained in relational betrayal trauma, that can be very beneficial. If a CSAT is not an option for you (they are hard to find and often don't take insurance), I recommend an IC who specializes in TRAUMA and who got their degree relatively recently (It's only been the last 10-20 years that all the schools required the clinical students receive trauma training, and the research on trauma grows every day, so I always recommend finding someone who is really keeping up to speed on what's happening in the PTSD/C-PTSD world, rather than someone who supposedly specializes in "infidelity" which is really just their word and - as you've already experienced - can mean they really don't know squat about it).

Anyhow, sorry if this is all just babble. At the end of the day, if there's ONE thing I learned its that I had to focus on ME and MY healing and my WH could either figure his shit out - or not. I didn't cause him to cheat, I can't control his cheating, and I can't cure whatever causes him to cheat.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:19 PM, March 22nd, 2021 (Monday)]

He says it wasn't about the sex, it was more about the attention or the thrill of how the woman would respond to him.

I'm in the group that thinks the difference between SA and cheating doesn't change things for the BS, but he's saying it's not about the sex, so I have a hard time seeing SA.

Put him aside for a few moments. What do you want? Do you think you can have a good future with him, if he changes? Do you want that future?

If you don't, you may save yourself a lot of heartache by going to D now. If you do want that future, do you think he'll follow through with his promises this time? What's different now?

Your H can change, if he does the work. If you want him, R is worth considering. But my reco is to start with what you want.

I agree with HHADL and gmc94. Their posts are worth rereading.

Sorry if this is a t/j, but I don't think the sex -in & of itself - is determinative of SA. Rather, it's the COMPULSION, or the inability to stop the As/behavior (whether EAs or porn or PAs or whatever) despite the consequences that puts folks toward the "addiction" part.

Sorry if this is a t/j, but I don't think the sex -in & of itself - is determinative of SA. Rather, it's the COMPULSION, or the inability to stop the As/behavior (whether EAs or porn or PAs or whatever) despite the consequences that puts folks toward the "addiction" part.

I second this from gmc. It's not about the sex at all if its an addiction.

I commented earlier and now I realize I never commented about the addiction in that post. I don't think it matters if they have an addiction or not. Addiction tells us the why, but the why only matters if it can be used to change behavior. Look there first. He will/has changed his behavior or he has not.

I'm in the group that thinks the difference between SA and cheating doesn't change things for the BS, but he's saying it's not about the sex, so I have a hard time seeing SA.

I think in some ways, you are right.

My husband is a recovering SA. Because of that, I am on this website.

My husband has actually never stepped out of our marriage. His behaviors are fantasizing, watching porn, and compulsive masturbation.

I am here, in part, because you are right. The label, and even the act really doesn't matter. My husband, if he doesn't keep himself in check, is broken, and will chose behaviors that will destroy our marriage.

That certainly sounds like a wayward, even if he hasn't actually had sex with anyone else other than me.

Until my husband really was interested in working his recovery, he looked like any other wayward deep in the fog.

SA is never about sex,just like alcoholism isn't about thirst. It's about self-medicating and escaping. It's about avoiding emotional intimacy.

duplicate post

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 2:20 AM, March 25th (Thursday)]

SA is never about sex,just like alcoholism isn't about thirst. It's about self-medicating and escaping. It's about avoiding emotional intimacy.

Secondtime speaks the truth.

RubyRed82. I think the important thing for you right now is that you don't feel safe with your WH. It doesn't matter why that is. It's your reality.

On her website, Dr Jill Manning has a digital download for $15 called "A safety inventory for betrayed partners." It might be useful.

I also encourage you to read Vicky Tidwell Palmer's book "Moving Beyond Betrayal: The 5-Step Boundary Solution for Partners of Sex Addicts" which will also help you navigate what you need to do to stay safe. (She also has great podcasts and runs courses.)

You don't mention if you are working with a betrayal trauma therapist, but you might also consider it. Counselors, including MC, who aren't trained in betrayal trauma and sex addiction can traumatize the spouses all over again. And it's important for you to learn skills to cope with this so you don't end up with PTSD.

If your husband is sincere about addressing his problems then he needs to check himself into an inpatient rehab for sex addicts or find a CSAT to work with; he needs to attend 90 meetings in 90 days with SA (sexaholics anonymous) SAA (sex addicts anonymous) or SA Lifeline, and he needs to commit to a full theraputic disclosure with polygraph

You might consider attending the 'anon' group for any of those. You'll find women who 'get' what you are going through and help you put the focus on you and your healing, not on your spouse.

On the I Can Relate forum there is a separate thread for partners of sex addicts. You might find other advice there.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 2:22 AM, March 25th (Thursday)]

Echoing other responses....

help you put the focus on you and your healing, not on your spouse.

IMHO, THIS is the crux of it all. It can be super hard to flip the switch, so to speak, on focusing on the WS or the M to focusing on ourselves. Some folks have it naturally, others (like myself) struggled. And I do mean STRUGGLED with this. But once the switch DID flip, it's like a whole new world opened up. The rose-colored glasses fell off. I began to heal and work on ME and stopped trying to drive my WH's bus to the land of R.

Thank you so much to everyone who responded and provided resources. I've been trying to comb through so much, it's overwhelming. I feel very confused right now. On the one hand, I just want to throw in the towel and say "F" it and just start my life over. On the other hand, if this is an addiction/compulsion, he's not going to get better without help and maybe things can be rebuilt if he can heal himself. He is not working with a CSAT, but a therapist who specializes in addictions. I'm looking for someone to talk to but in the meantime, I'm using the EAP through work. I had my first appointment today and I think I shocked the poor lady 🤷‍♀️

The therapist today told me that I seem detached from the situation and it's true. I guess it's my coping mechanism. She suggested that as long as situation was safe, that I should not make any decisions about R or D for a few months. I don't know I this is the best advice, but it does give me time to make a more level headed decision instead of acting out of anger.

I'm trying to focus on myself. I got a haircut yesterday and bought 2 new bathing suits. I'm going to get a pedicure next week. It's small things, but it's helping me to make myself and my feelings important.

For what it's worth, WH seems extremely remorseful. I've never seen him cry so much (not that tears automatically equal remorse). He cut off contact with the OW and wrote her a NC message that he sent in front of me. He's been taking his counseling seriously, been reading articles online, listening to YouTube videos and ordered a couple of books to read. He asked me to download an app blocker and parental controls for his phone to prevent the temptation of downloading the apps he was using before. We aren't sleeping in the same bed and haven't been intimate at all-not even hugging or hand holding. He's been respectful of my boundaries and said he won't push for anything more until/if I'm ready. On the surface it looks good, but I have my doubts it will last. I don't know if I'm being negative or just realistic.

Thanks again for the response and support! It feels good (if that's the right word to use) that other people understand what this hell is like.

Sounds like you have a solid attitude about the tears. I hadn't seen my WH ever cry like he did after dday. I don't live in his head, but from my perspective, they were alligator tears. Crying from shame over what he did and fear about what he lost and still stood to lose. That's regret speaking and NOT remorse. However, your WH taking the initiative to read books and videos and follow up on the counseling is a good sign IMO (something mine never did)

On the other hand, if this is an addiction/compulsion, he's not going to get better without help and maybe things can be rebuilt if he can heal himself

Just to clarify...

I think that whether it's SA (sex addiction) or garden variety cheater, the WS will have a lot of work and growth to do. If it's SA, the work is different, and (probably more importantly for you) the likelihood he will lapse is high - just like quitting any addiction (and because he went and acted out AGAIN after being caught and engaging in some MC is a real world / personal to you example of just how tough of a nut to crack SA can be).

Even without the Dx of SA from a CSAT, he can still avail himself of the online 12-step programs for SA (just as you can also avail yourself of the online S-Anon programs, which I would really encourage you to give a test run).

My WH's CSAT recommended two books off the bat: "Out of the Doghouse" by Weiss and "Help.Her.Heal." by Carol Sheets. The first book is aimed directly to men. Overall, I'd probably give it a B-/C+ (there is a thread on this book in The Book Club forum on SI that will give some insight). Help Her Heal is a workbook about building empathy - I read some of it and it looked pretty good, but I don't think my WH read it or did the exercises, so I can't speak to its effectiveness. Whether you would like to suggest those books to him is a sticky wicket in that you don't want to (and probably should not) "drive the bus" for him. So, that's something to consider. As much as I think SI can help a WS or SA, having both the BS and WS here can create problems. It may be best to keep it as YOUR safe place.

I would again suggest listening to the Helping Couples Heal podcasts, which has a lot of good info on relational betrayal trauma, infidelity generally, and SA (the hosts are both CSATs).

Glad you found an IC (and having to tell my story to a new IC was always an interesting experience). I also used my work's EAP at first - if you get a PTSD Dx, you can usually extend that for another round of sessions (I was).

Thank you so much to everyone who responded and provided resources. I've been trying to comb through so much, it's overwhelming. I feel very confused right now. On the one hand, I just want to throw in the towel and say "F" it and just start my life over. On the other hand, if this is an addiction/compulsion, he's not going to get better without help and maybe things can be rebuilt if he can heal himself. He is not working with a CSAT, but a therapist who specializes in addictions. I'm looking for someone to talk to but in the meantime, I'm using the EAP through work. I had my first appointment today and I think I shocked the poor lady 🤷‍♀️

I want to caution you about this viewpoint. Be very careful here. If it's an addiction, he won't be healed. He'll battle it for the rest of his life. It's actually worse if it's addiction, in my opinion. That's a lifetime of potential relapse hanging over your head, and apparently relapse is the norm.

I also don't buy the "wait several months before making a decision" advice. Sometimes you know what you should do early on. Sometimes you don't. If you know, don't wait because someone said so. If you want to think on it, give it that few months.

Just to echo others, quickly.

SA is an issue that will need to be managed for life, just like diabetes.

I think this is different than being "just a cheater."

Hopefully, when a former wayward fixes that part of them that allowed for the cheating, that's it.

Addiction is like that. There is no 'fixing' brain chemistry like that.

He says it wasn't about the sex, it was more about the attention or the thrill of how the woman would respond to him

This ^^^^^^^^^^ is the very essence of a cheater. A fragile ego craving female (or male) attention and enjoying the thrill of the chase. You call it addiction, I call it having your cake and eating it. Just your typical, a-dime-a-dozen, ‘cheat + lie + crocodile tears’ scenario.

You forgave him once and he relapsed almost immediately.

The first time you had MC and that didn’t work, nor you are both having IC, and if and when that doesn’t work, what then? Is this honestly the life you envisage for yourself? Think it through RR82!

So... things for you to think about at this stage:

- did you get std/sti testing?

- how long has this been going on?

- he saw you hurting when you first found out, and kept on cheating

- it seems like he's willing to come clean, you could get more history out of him if you wanted. maybe.

He is not working with a CSAT, but a therapist who specializes in addictions.

This is like going to a primary care doctor for treatment immediately after a heart attack. They can keep you, but they don't have the tools to get to the heart of the problem.

He asked me to download an app blocker and parental controls for his phone to prevent the temptation of downloading the apps he was using before

That's a good step. Covenant eyes is a good program, and sends in a daily report. But you shouldn't be the keeper of it. He should have an accountability partner, either his CSAT or SA sponsor, who takes care of that.

Your job is to focus on your healing, not his recovery. You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it. He's the only driver on that bus.