SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

And, I should acknowledge, Thumos was not pointing at feminism in his post

Exactly, just the opposite in fact. What you said about a woman devaluing herself in infidelity makes so much sense. Thank you.

There is a weird "YEAH! We're able to be as shitty as men now! WHOO" thing that I've seen on occasion, lol.

Spot on. I've seen this a lot lately in the media, and it's just so strange. It's like a speaker or interviewee is afraid of criticizing it and instead just papers over it with some vague statement or an allusion to feminism. I think it really abuses ACTUAL feminism and actual female empowerment.

Obviously, male infidelity used to be valorized or at least winked at all the time in the past. No need to "achieve parity" in that. Fortunately, I think positive portrayals of male infidelity are very much on the wane, and that probably started with Fatal Attraction in the late 1980s.

I was a junior in high school when that film came out. It made quite an impact on me, but less because of the thriller aspect and the bunny boiling. I'll never forget the scene when Michael Douglas tells his wife, and the look of dawning horror and devastation on her face. The film actually does a good job of showing the really wounded state of the marriage at the end of the film. Yes, it's implied they stay together, but it's obvious they have a long road ahead of them.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:51 PM, April 29th (Thursday)]

I actually posted this in your other thread.

Having read your story and comments here is what I think:

It was possible for her to have sex with a new handsome man because she was open to it - as simple as that. What 50+ year old woman wouldn't want it?

She was open to it because she does not care enough for you to not do it (forget about love).

She is still open to it and her acts of kindness are just that - acts!

She is not remorseful in any way. She told you because she simply doesn't care enough and doesn't want to go around hiding it (not because she cares for you).

What you are asking for is not unreasonable in anyway and is in fact, the very least she should be doing. You will never get it though because of the above.

She just wants to go about fixing things that are wrong with the marriage to make her life going forward easier. You are making it difficult by asking for all of this.

Of course she doesn't want a divorce. She wants the safety and comfort of a marriage and she wants you to fix yourself to make her life better.

Now that she has told you, she feels she has an excuse for the next time she does it ("you never fixed your issues even though I asked you for it").

If you read all that I have written above, you should by all normal standards come to the realisation that this marriage is over and you will forever torment yourself thinking "we are almost there, she has done most things, so why is she not doing this really important thing etc". You will not get what you are looking for and need to release yourself from all this pain. Dump her insincere ass and go find a better one.

She is 100% in the camp that could (very) easily cheat again! A key word you used when you initially described what happened was that she told you and felt REGRET (not REMORSE). There was no remorse and that is why you have no empathy from her.

[This message edited by Talisman at 4:18 AM, April 30th (Friday)]

I am going to agree with Talisman here. Now this is being characterized as a ONS. lets look at that.

To me a true ONS is an encounter where two people who never met wind up having sex, either induced by alcohol or some other factor. But it is SPONTANEOUS behavior.

You wife and this OM flirted for two weeks, and at each step she made conscious decisions not to shut it down. She knew exactly what was going to happen when she went to his room, as she knew that for two weeks she was letting it all build to where he invited her to his room. And did he do that on his own or because she was making it abundantly clear she would go.???

So yes, it was a one time sex thing, but it was not spontaneous or unplanned at all once it built for two weeks.

And I would be curious is I were you what you daughter knew or saw. You mean to tell me an adult daughter could be around her mother hanging out with some young guy that was not pursuing her and not notice her mother flirting or encouraging this guy. Give me a break.

This confession came because she most likely figured you would rugsweep it and be grateful for her "honesty". But maybe it was because your daughter saw more than she was supposed to.

The fact that your wife did this and is ready to move right back to "normal" would seem to me to indicate she would be more likely to do it again, especially since you have been on the defensive side of the ball game here.

And with her attitude I'd have her hooked up to a machine verifying it hasn't happened before. And yes, my WW passed a polygraph that she demanded to take.

The second type of person is someone who is habitually deceptive. These people not only cheat on their spouses, but they fudge expense reports, cheat on their taxes, lie about other things to their spouse, family and friends. These sorts of people, as you might expect, are poor candidates for reconciliation because they not only have to heal the damage from the affair, but they have to address some very fundamental issues within themselves and work very hard to become an honest and transparent person. For someone who has a lifetime of deceit behind them, this is a tall order. Reconciliation with these types is generally not achievable.

You’ve met my WH I see

The fact that your wife did this and is ready to move right back to "normal" would seem to me to indicate she would be more likely to do it again, especially since you have been on the defensive side of the ball game here.

And perhaps had done it before. Wouldn't be the first time.

I appreciate the replies.

Talisman and BeyondRage it is difficult for me to accept what you're saying because for 21 years I never saw her as manipulating or conniving, and it is difficult to see that now.

But people change, maybe she snapped, I don't know. The way I feel is so very complicated...

HowCouldShe,

As for you question will she cheat again, I would ask has she cheated before and is she a secret serial cheater.

The reason I think this is a valid question is your WWs lack of an emotional response to cheating, and that I think your WW only confessed because she had to fearing exposure possibly from your daughter.

I suggest you get a polygraph to determine if she is a serial cheater.

Have you even asked her if there were prior affairs, perhaps even emotional ones via text or the internet?

Have you even asked her if there were prior affairs, perhaps even emotional ones via text or the internet?

Yeah, I did, and she said no (of course).

This will probably make no sense to anyone else, but I believe her. I have never, ever known her to lie. Never caught her in a fib, never caught her omitting anything, I have never experienced anything dishonest.

Yes, I'm aware now that she has shown me a side I've never seen, but even with all the bullshit I still don't detect any lies. I know I love her and yes I want things to work, but I don't feel deceived. And I tell you I was, and still am somewhat, on high alert...

She is not showing any remorse.

She is not empathising with you.

I'm not saying she is manipulative or conniving.

She doesn't care!

And...

She doesn't want to lose her creature comforts!

And...

She blames you!

And...

She knows she will face no consequences (won't even discuss it)!

A lethal combination of entitlement that means YES she could definitely cheat again given the right urge and "motivation" and opportunity!

I see a lot of assumptions about your WW, OP, but after reading your last couple of threads, I don't see any meaningful indicators that she's going to cheat again. Your WW is prideful and she lacks empathy if I'm reading your posts correctly. But that doesn't mean she'll necessarily cheat again and it doesn't mean that she's incapable of reordering her moral compass so that cheating is no longer a choice for her. And THAT's what's important.

We all want the WS to fully understand the hurt they're inflicted on us. But you know what?... all a WS can do is to TRY and empathize. No one really understands this experience until they've been through it themselves. I know I didn't, even though I remember with SUCH humiliation giving terrible advice to a friend who was going through it. But we can't see inside anyone else's head and they can't see inside ours.

Cheaters cheat because they have the capacity to say "yes" to that kind of perfidy. Their stated values aren't the same as their actual deeds. So, when a WS can get down into the deep recesses of their own core values and make meaningful corrections, that's all you need. The cheater has a "but..." in their core value of Fideltiy. ie. "I believe in Fidelity, but... not if I need some extra attention". Not everyone is like that, right? I don't have a "but..." when it comes to my core values. I can't provide a good enough excuse to do something I know is wrong. People who truly HONOR their core values don't act in opposition to them.

So yeah, the rest of that stuff is nice. And maybe in some cases, it's actually meaningful, although I don't see how. The behavior of the WS doesn't CAUSE our healing. If it did, divorcees would still be fucked up, right? We get better in spite of what happened, when we're proactive and when we start loving, respecting, and supporting OURSELVES, when we let go of victimization and recommit to being present in our own lives. I know that feeling of wanting the WS to really "get it" is damned near universal, but feelings are NOT facts. Just because we feel like we need something, doesn't mean we do. My fWH will NEVER really understand how he hurt me. And you know what? in the beginning that really bothered me. But today, I wouldn't want HIM or anyone else I care about to REALLY understand that pain.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 12:00 AM, May 1st (Saturday)]

Talisman and BeyondRage it is difficult for me to accept what you're saying because for 21 years I never saw her as manipulating or conniving, and it is difficult to see that now.

Yeah a lot of us could say that. Your wife isn't special. And she never was.

Read what they have to say a few times and let it sink in.

Yeah, I did, and she said no (of course).

Of course. Of course.

There is no reason at all to believe her. None

And no reason to disbelieve her.

She's a cypher.

Do you like living with a cypher?

How does one suspend having empathy for 8 or 9 months, hikingout? That is quite an extended period of time for someone to lack empathy, let alone integrity.