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I will not ask again for a timeline. I told her I love her, that I want to make this work, but up to now it's been hell and that I can not heal by myself while in this marriage. It's been 19 months and I will not accept the current state of affairs and I will go file if she isn't going to step up.

I will be watching her actions, she said all the right words again. I am serious, this is the last convo that I will have with her. I will be shopping for a new IC in the next week. I will see where she is at in a month.

This is my shit or get off the pot moment. After all these months, I finally feel better, like I have taken the first step FINALLY out of infidelity, what remains to be seen is if we are going to grow together, or if I am going to do it solo.

I did tell her to make an account here, she did initially make and account and post her story on reddit and got lit up. I think she will find this place helpful.

[This message edited by elKAPPYtan at 11:27 AM, May 28th (Friday)]

If you haven’t already, you might want to consult with a lawyer or two to get an idea of what D looks like. Don’t bother hiding it.

consult with a lawyer or two to get an idea of what D looks like. Don’t bother hiding it.

I will do that, will call around next week.

Just want to brace you for a few things based on my own experience (my own and nothing more) if she does actually get her shit together and provide you with a timeline:

1. In my case there was new information in the written timeline (which I waited 3 YEARS for). It wasn't "earth shattering."

2. It was, however, revelatory :

- I learned that on a certain night in question her AP had invited he to an empty townhome for sex. She maintains she declined.

- I also learned that AP was coming over to my home regularly for "family dinners" while I was out of town during the affair. This last revelation compounded the intense disrespect I felt from the affair.

3. It has now been about 1.5 years since I got the written timeline. I have had three ongoing reactions that continue to be thorny issues for me:

A. A first reaction has been to feel outrage that she withheld fairly significant (but not earth shattering) details from me for three years while insisting "I've told you everything." This was a bald-faced lie she maintained for three years.

B. A second reaction has been to really examine what happened here: It took her THREE YEARS for her to sit in a chair, take pen in hand and simply write down several pages on what happened. This was a routine, easy exercise almost universally recommended in all reconciliation attempts. Yet she spent countless hours, three months of time and intensive energy in her actual affair. By contrast, the relative "work" required by writing the timeline was a piffling effort. The upshot here is that she could not bring herself to invest a fraction of the time and effort she'd put into having her affair.

C. She knew I wanted it. She refused to provide it until I issued an ultimatum. The fact that I had to issue an ultimatum to get such a simple thing devalues the final product, even if she put work into it. Her refusal should have been a red flag, aside from whether the timeline itself contained any significant new information.

4. The upshot of this has been to question her authenticity and transparency on a regular basis. I don't see her the same way I did before the affair (an obvious understatement) but even worse I can't say that I see her as the kind of quality individual I think I want to be with long-term.

I predict you will have a similar experience here. The long-term damage of refusing me the timeline and then ultimately providing it is actually incalculable as I've had to examine it over the past year.

This is why I think we very often hear about reconciliation attempts failing at the 3-5 year mark.

Anyway, food for thought.

In your previous thread I wrote:

"The good news is that when you do decide to leave, I bet she will nearly instantly become truly motivated. I don't know if it will be too late for you then. She doesn't grasp the damage she has done to you and your relationship."

I will be watching her actions, she said all the right words again. I am serious, this is the last convo that I will have with her.

You say this is your "final talk", which is great. Hopefully you made some differences between this talk and any previous similar talk. Clear set of needs to be met? Hard deadlines for acting to meet those needs?

What did you put in place to make this well and truly "final" or is it just a stronger feeling of resolve?

By the way, writing out a detailed narrative timeline many pages in length should only take a few days. It's not a Herculean task.

Similarly doing a polygraph isn't a big deal. It's not like polygraph examiners are shocking their genitals, but from the way most WW's act about a polygraph, you'd think it was some sort of baroque Latin American torture session.

They sit in a comfortable chair for an hour or so and answer a few simple yes/no questions. They can't bring themselves to do that? Really?

Consider once again all the time and effort she was willing to put into the affair against the lack of time and effort she's willing to put into doing such a simple thing.

And then think about the fact that she has denied something you've repeatedly asked for over and over again for so long.

Actions, not words. What do her actions tell you?

[This message edited by Thumos at 1:18 PM, May 28th (Friday)]

What did you put in place to make this well and truly "final" or is it just a stronger feeling of resolve?

I didn't give a timeframe in which I wanted to see it. I was finally honest with her with what I have been feeling, that she sees the timeline as irrelevant, that I know everything already, that it was 2014 and she can't remember. I told her it shows a first step that she can take to show me she is a safe partner and is willing to heal the damage she caused. If she can not take the first and subsequent steps, that I must seek separation from her so that I may begin to finally heal on my own.

What do her actions tell you?

up to this point her actions have told me she doesn't grasp the pain she caused me. And that she is either unwilling to help me heal, or doesn't know how. But if she doesn't know how, she makes no effort to learn how. My needs are an afterthought. She wants to rugsweep it all away. She thinks that I will get over this without her doing what I asked. This isn't what she told me, but what her actions tell me.

I will see what her actions say over the next month.

But if she doesn't know how, she makes no effort to learn how. My needs are an afterthought. She wants to rugsweep it all away. She thinks that I will get over this without her doing what I asked. This isn't what she told me, but what her actions tell me.

Exactly so.

I didn't give a timeframe in which I wanted to see it. I was finally honest with her with what I have been feeling, that she sees the timeline as irrelevant, that I know everything already, that it was 2014 and she can't remember. I told her it shows a first step that she can take to show me she is a safe partner and is willing to heal the damage she caused. If she can not take the first and subsequent steps, that I must seek separation from her so that I may begin to finally heal on my own.

They always say "I've told you everything already" - it is almost never true.

You shouldn't even have to tell her any of that, in any case. She already knows. She's not a moron, correct?

She knows.

If I were you, I would not wait long for the timeline. It isn't hard to sit her grown ass butt in a chair, take a pen in her hand and write it down. It should take only days to do it. That's it.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:18 PM, May 28th (Friday)]

No deadline, more foot dragging.

That's my experience anyway.

IMO you need to ask yourself why she should take you seriously now?

After all this time she probably doesn't take you seriously because she's learned that there are no consequences.

She needs to believe that you will divorce her (bluff if necessary). Let her know that you're: scheduling a visit with an attorney (the first hour is often free), separate bank accounts, change your life insurance, talk to agents about selling your house.

Has she read the texts out loud to you?

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 2:46 PM, May 28th (Friday)]

No deadline, more foot dragging.

she can drag that foot right out the door.

She needs to believe that you will divorce her (bluff if necessary). Let her know that you're: scheduling a visit with an attorney (the first hour is often free), separate bank accounts, change your life insurance, talk to agents about selling your house.

Accts are already separated, and have talked with a realtor about the house already. I will call around for some lawyers. Prob ask my dad, he's run his business for 35 years, been divorced thrice, I bet he has some good names haha

Has she read the texts out loud to you?

First I have heard of this type of thing lol, this is good.

[This message edited by elKAPPYtan at 3:46 PM, May 28th (Friday)]

Look, none of this is easy.

"she can drag that foot right out the door."

When? Two weeks? Four weeks?

If there is no urgency driven by you, she'll be happy to give you crumbs and pretend like she did what you asked.

I resisted the concept of hard deadlines or kept secret deadlines (that I later ignored) too. Bought myself months of limbo.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 12:14 AM, May 29th (Saturday)]

When? Two weeks? Four weeks?

If there is no urgency driven by you, she'll be happy to give you crumbs and pretend like she did what you asked.

Renovation on the house starts soon, 90-120 days later the house is getting sold. I told her during the conversation that I would just as likely split the money and go our separate ways, which is what I intend to do if she hasn't made sufficient progress. That's my deadline. If she is all in before then, I say and continue the to work at the marriage. If not, I've done all I could. Time would be to split and heal on my own

Ball is in her court. If she wants this marriage, now is her last chance. If she fucks it up, excuse me, that's on her. I'm done dragging this it's almost 20 months.

I resisted the concept of hard deadlines or kept secret deadlines (that I later ignored) too. Bought myself months of limbo.

So did I. Bought myself YEARS of limbo. Not recommended. Hard deadlines are your friend, but you have to be willing to mete out actual consequences when they don't meet those deadlines.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:09 AM, May 29th (Saturday)]

How will you know if she's made 'sufficient' progress? What are your key indicators?

I resisted the concept of hard deadlines or kept secret deadlines (that I later ignored) too. Bought myself months of limbo.

Exactly - the question isn't whether or not your W believes you're serious.

The question is: Are you serious? Are you willing to file for D and follow through?

If you're ready, great. If you're not ready, not so great, but not disabling - not being ready just means more limbo.

But your decision to seek D is exactly that - yours.

You set your own boundaries. Power is yours.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:34 PM, May 30th (Sunday)]

Thank you for your replies

I wouldn't go for divorce straight away. Separation for 6 months then file for divorce, giving her 1 year (6months divorce waiting period here with kids). Why not file right away?

The plan if we stay together is to sell the house, rent for 1 year and either build or buy.

If she hasn't completed a timeline, gotten back into IC and paid for a polygraph by the time we sell, we split the funds and rent separate for 1 year, I file at 6 months no matter what. By the time we would be looking to build or buy I will free.

House will prob sell in Sept.

That's the plan in my mind anyway, interested in other perspectives.

And given her lack of action since our talk, I need to start getting my affairs in order and start planning out this separation. She has done nothing but talk about our next house. I can't share in her excitement.

Timeline. What’s it give you? A framework of what happened. Some people need all the details. Some do not. But few if any get all the truth. I was relentless about it. But in the end once I had my timeline. I didn’t feel any better. It showed me how screwed up my wife was. And that she was never going to tell everything. In my experience they tell you only as much as their fragile egos will let them. I get the need to know. But do not think it’s the magic pill that will end your suffering. Because your healing is on you. As much as people will tell you your spouse needs to help you heal the reality is they may not. And if they won’t then you need to heal on your own. I had a hard time with acceptance. And with the idea that my spouse did what they did without any thought about me. That takes a lot of time to heal. And no amount of information from the affair will heal you. That takes time and a lot of self growth. I found that after I hammered away looking for facts and dates and who did what and when that I just had more questions without answers that I liked. It was a vicious circle. Watch out for pain shopping. Make sure you know what your motives are for the information you want. Because once you know there is no unknowing. I would have been dead set against that in the beginning but 7 years out I don’t feel the same. But you have to do what you feel you must.

IMO, IC works better (only?) if one has a goal. I suggest insisting that one f your W's IC goals be 'to change from betrayer to good partner.' Also, I suggest insisting she sign a release that allows her IC to talk with you.

The IC may talk with you only in a joint session; that's OK.

Also, what do you hope to get from a timeline? I suggest expanding the TL requirement to something like 'no more lies'.

I'm not in R, but I agree that the timeline won't be a magic bullet to healing.

However, unwillingness to do a timeline/poly is, IMHO, a major factor for a WS not being worthy of R.

The timeline -and the ways in which is forces the "fragile ego" to take a cold, hard, realistic view of the actions - is also VERY important for the WS' work. It's not ONLY for the BS.