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Newest Member: May28

Reconciliation :
Trying One Last Time

Topic is Sleeping.
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 FullSpeedAhead (original poster new member #82613) posted at 8:56 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

I have actually spoke to a lawyer already, but my W is not aware. I have gathered info on what it would look like. Not letting the OBS know anything yet does give me some leverage in pursuing cooperation from her if it were to head that direction somehow. I originally gave myself a 6 month timeline to assess things before making any sort of decision. Currently sitting at 2.5 months.

In regard to her wanting the marriage, she has been begging and pleading with me to not D since Dday. After the EA's, it was more on me to fight to save the marriage. After this PA, she is really the one that is fighting to keep me from moving toward D. She has stated many times how she couldn't go on living, knowing that she lost me and our family over some guy that she feels nothing toward. She sees it as a huge mistake that she couldn't find her way out of.

We've had many discussions post-Dday about her poor coping skills and lack of respect for the M. I straight up asked her if she doesn't love me like a W should love a H. I told her that her actions don't fit at all with a W that loves her H as she should. I explained that if she didn't, this would be bound to happen again. She cried and swore to me that she does love me, and doesn't know how she fell into the A. I explained that this doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and would be a big pain point for me in moving through R. I plan to discuss this in length when we start MC.

After reading through some of the responses on here, I brought up a discussion about how I felt that she really did have emotional feelings for the AP. I mentioned how she cried and drank on the day that she broke it off with him. She reiterated to me that she did not feel anything for him, and that the reasoning for her crying and drinking was how she felt trashy, disgusting, used, and was completely tired of all of it. She stated again how she basically felt nothing for anyone during that time, including the AP. She feels as though it was nothing more than an escape from reality and the stress at home. She recognizes that it was the most horrible thing that she could do. She cannot recall the process that led into it, as she found herself in the midst of it before she really recognized what was happening. Each time that she broke it off, he would pressure her back. She found it extremely difficult to permanently end things until that last time. I told her that I have doubts that she wouldn't have went back to him again had I not found out about it that evening after she broke it off. She swears that she was done at that point.

By nature, I am a VERY optimistic person. I always find a way to look at the silver lining in every situation and play forward on that. In my previous job as a high level manager, my boss would often tell me that I had too much compassion for the employees that I was responsible for. I would often keep someone in a position that didn't perform well, only because I could see that they were trying and wanted to help them stay and be successful. I feel that I definitely use this same mindset in my M. This is also why it's not in my nature to constantly spy on her and keep tabs on all of her doings. It's something that takes effort on my part, but it does seem to help me in regaining some trust.
Sisoon, I do seek joy by nature. After each of the EA's, I moved forward with forgiveness and joy at a much faster pace than I would have imagined. This PA has been much more difficult to do so. I'm not sure if it's due to the physical nature of it and me being a male, or the fact that it's the 4th A and the trust is completely smashed this time.

She asked me this morning why I seemed so down, as it seemed as though I had been doing better. I told her that my emotions are like a roller coaster right now and I basically do not trust her at all. I reiterated to her that I often think about whether I'm making the right decision or not. I told her that it feels as though she is a completely different person to me, since her actions do not add up with who I thought she was in the past. This made her cry. I feel like I set R back every time I do this, but I also don't want to keep my thoughts and feelings bottled up. I feel as though I should move forward and not look back since I'm set on R, but that is so much easier said than done. Again, hoping that MC will help this along, along with us both being in IC.

Posting as BS. PA DDay - 10/14/2022. EA DDay's - 2011, 2013, 2018

posts: 9   ·   registered: Dec. 24th, 2022   ·   location: LA
id 8771130
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waitedwaytoolong ( member #51519) posted at 9:12 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

You obviously want to give this one more go. The thing is she is a serial cheater that basically has had no consequences. It’s great she is feeling good now. Hope that sticks. But she has seemed to base all of her cheating on depression and having the wrong prescription and doses. These definitely could have contributed, but can’t be looked at as the cause. Something is seriously broken in her. It’s great that she is now getting professional help, but will this go on forever?

The biggest thing with repeat offenders like this is they get the thrill of cheating, leaving a path of destruction, but emerge from the whole thing unscathed. I’m sure she will tell you how hurt she is that she hurt you, but is that enough for her not to send the next text to open up another relationship outside the marriage?

The other BS needs to know. Especially as they are neighbors and the chance of this starting up again is magnified by 100 with this proximity. Aside from it being the right thing to do, it also gives you another pair of eyes to watch out for this starting up again. As far as your daughter, your wife should have thought of this prior to cheating with someone so close to your daughter. She sounds like she is age appropriate enough to know. This is the kind of consequence that might stop your WS from her next fling.

Where did all of this take place? If it was in your house get rid of the furniture and move if you can. It’s a nightmare living where the sex took place. If it was at his house, then his wife definitely needs to know.

It’s not impossible for you to recover the marriage, but it will take a Herculean effort. Are you sure you have the whole story? It’s always good to tell the WS you are going to be able to recover the messages and if she is omitting anything, game over. Amazing how much comes out. SAme with the threat of a polygraph.

I am the cliched husband whose wife had an affair with the electrician

Divorced

posts: 2162   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2016
id 8771133
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 FullSpeedAhead (original poster new member #82613) posted at 9:35 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

We both have complete camera systems around our houses, so nothing took place at either house. They met up in parking lots twice (in his and her vehicles) and twice at two different hotels in nearby towns. They met in their vehicles behind her work for minutes at a time, which were mostly kissing or oral.

I was able to see a good amount of texts between them. She now knows that I have this capability. This is why she used her coworker's phone to update him on how much I knew as trickle truth came out (I saw these texts first hand). She says this was to cover herself if I was to call him. Once she had told me "everything", there was no further texts of her updating him. She said that she had no reason to reach out to him at that point.

Posting as BS. PA DDay - 10/14/2022. EA DDay's - 2011, 2013, 2018

posts: 9   ·   registered: Dec. 24th, 2022   ·   location: LA
id 8771134
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waitedwaytoolong ( member #51519) posted at 9:48 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Good to hear nothing happened in the home. You saved yourself a world of hurt. I do think that telling the other BS is the right thing. I was deadly afraid of people finding out. Turns out instead of pity I got more support than I could have ever expected.

If you daughter finds out, it’s best that she hears straight from you and her that she made an awful choice, but you are going to try to work it out. Kids are smart. She probably knows more than you think.

I am the cliched husband whose wife had an affair with the electrician

Divorced

posts: 2162   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2016
id 8771135
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 10:13 PM on Tuesday, December 27th, 2022

Not letting the OBS know anything yet does give me some leverage

The OBS is an actual human being. Her life..her agency..shouldn't be used as a bargaining chip. Ick.

She sees it as a huge mistake that she couldn't find her way out of.

So she's the victim. And its not a mistake. A mistake is grabbing 2% milk,when you meant to get skim. No..it was a choice. Thousands of choices,actually.

doesn't know how she fell into the A

If she can't tell you how it happened, then she can't say she will never do it again.

She cannot recall the process that led into it, as she found herself in the midst of it before she really recognized what was happening.

No responsibility. Poor thing just suddenly found herself having an affair,with zero knowledge as to how it happened. Again..if this is her thought process,she will never be a safe partner.

I feel like I set R back every time I do this,

You're not in R. You're still in recovery. And your ww isn't doing the work for R,if the things I've highlighted are her thought process. You are 2.5 months out from yet another dday, with your serial cheating wife. It takes 3 to 5 years to heal. Part of that healing..a huge part..is you telling her exactly how you feel. And part of her healing the damage she has caused is to move past the crying,quickly, and get proactive in healing the damage she has caused you, the marriage,and herself.

It doesn't matter AT ALL that her meds made her numb. She knew it was wrong to have an affair. Each time,she knew. If you allow her to use her meds,or her depression, as a reason for her cheating on your then you have gifted her a ready made excuse for the next affair.

Ask her what she is doing to become a safe partner. What's her plan?

[This message edited by HellFire at 10:15 PM, Tuesday, December 27th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6683   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8771138
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 9:31 AM on Wednesday, December 28th, 2022

I agree with waitedwaytoolong completely. She is sure the A would not have happened if she was in her right mind? The third time? That’s wonderful that she believes this. However, that’s totally irrelevant compared to what you believe, based upon two EAs snd a one PA, that you know of.

She is a serial cheater, plain and simple. She is crying snd upset not because she feels for your pain (remorse) but for her own pain (guilt, regret, shame). Her life will look very different if you D. She will look terrible in everyone else’s eyes. These are two very different things - regret vs remorse.

You must tell the OBS. This should be done in person. All four of you should be in the same room while she confesses. She needs to tell both sets of parents and siblings. Either you need to move or they need to move. You cannot remain neighbors with the man your wife had an A with. Remember, she’s a serial cheater. She can snd will find a way to cheat again if the mood strikes her, if her depression returns, if she has a bad day, if you upset her, etc.

Serial cheaters are master manipulators and do especially well with self described empaths like yourself. She is crying to get through the storm, knowing you will forgive as always, snd then she can return to her regular life while you think about the A ten times a day for the next ten years. Great for her not too great for you.

Then, you invest all of this time to R, to her, to your family, only to find out a few years from now she has another PA or two.

Let’s start with a complete timeline sparing no details backed up by a poly. I would start from there. Once you have the complete truth, you can then move forward with deciding what’s best for you, not for your WW. She lost that privilege of you working towards her best interests after her third A. Now it’s about you.

posts: 785   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8771197
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 3:14 PM on Wednesday, December 28th, 2022

Some more thoughts....

Your first task is to heal - to feel the grief, anger, fear, and shame and to process it out of your body. That frees your energy for other things, like finding joy again outside your M, viewing your W as she really is (victim of depression vs, say, resentful serial cheater), making good decisions for yourself.

Recovery/healing is different from Reconciliation. Your recovery is you healing you. Your W's recovery is her healing herself. You can support each other, but you are the only one who can heal you, and she is the only one who can heal herself.

R is (re)building your M, which you can do only if you both do the necessary work on yourselves and on your M.

You're a valuable person whether you stay in your M or not. You are not your M.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:14 PM, Wednesday, December 28th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 29956   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8771219
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twicefooled ( member #42976) posted at 3:18 PM on Wednesday, December 28th, 2022

FullSpeedAhead, I totally understand the wanting to give it one more chance. I did the same thing.

In my case, it didn't make a difference. My ex is so damaged and refuses to follow through with help for himself - he will happily meet with a therapist or psych, but as soon as they start calling him on his bs (such as blaming everyone else for his issues, rather than accepting responsibility about what he can control).

You are in the same marriage as her, and you haven't cheated. Please remember that.

Now that you are giving it a final chance, please hold true to your boundaries. With my ex, I had a few hard and fast rules that I would NOT budge on and it would immediately mean divorce. My ex held to the rules of marriage for a few months and then I caught him trying to forge an EA with a woman.

Mental health issues are real, but you don't have to set yourself on fire to keep her warm. My ex also threatened suicide a few times, but after calling 911 twice he stopped doing that.

Ultimately, write down the rules. This will help you stay strong in following through if/when she fucks up. You really can't argue with black and white rules.

Me giving one more chance actually helped me to leave him - I knew I had done everything in my power to make this work and it was his shitty choices that broke up the family.

I wish you luck.

May 29 2021 ***reclaimed myself and decided to delete my story with my ex because I'm now 7 years free from him and mentally healthier than I've been in years.

*********When you know better, you can do better*************

posts: 492   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2014
id 8771220
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 3:53 PM on Wednesday, December 28th, 2022

I think R is a valid choice, particularly when both partners are willing to work hard for it. That said, I also think it's important to drill down to the why the cheating happened and to be accurate in your assessment. If you'll read my profile, like you, I've experienced both EA and PA, and also like you, I blamed the circumstances surrounding my WS the first time rather than looking at his character and integrity. Right now, you're looking at her depression and medication issues as causal, but that doesn't account for the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of people who, in the exact same circumstances, do NOT choose to cheat.

At the bottom line, I do believe that cheating is about character, meaning the relationship we have with our own core values. They say that Integrity is what we do when no one else is looking. I take that to mean that even when no one else is around, we adhere to the beliefs we have espoused in public, beliefs like Fidelity and Honesty. When we're true believers, we can't just throw our values away on a whim. What that tells me is that in the case of the WS, the adherence to Fidelity is weak and permeable. The values aren't solid and strong. The WS claims conviction while she's making her vows, but at the test, that conviction wasn't there. She's got a "but..." in her values system. ie. "She believes in Fidelity, but... not if she gets depressed and her meds fail." You see how that works, right? There's no "but..." in our values when we're true believers. She was never a true believer.

I don't say this to discourage you from R, but this is your fourth go-round now, and R continues to fail for you, I think, because you're not getting to the bottom of what's actually broken. Circumstances don't cheat. Marriages don't cheat. People do. And IME, it's this which has to change... the WS herself, her character.

That may sound impossible, but it's absolutely do-able. It starts with not allowing excuses though. To my way of thinking, no one cheats because they're depressed, or because they have a mid-life crisis, or because of any other circumstance which happened to engulf them at the time. They cheat because there's NOTHING inside creating a definitive STOP for them when those kinds of circumstances happen.

I think you're going to need to see the right kind of work from your WS in order to make R successful this time and that your trepidation right now is completely warranted. You'll know it when you see it and crocodile tears and snot-bubbled promises of change are NOT real change. Only change is change.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 7049   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8771224
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 FullSpeedAhead (original poster new member #82613) posted at 4:37 PM on Wednesday, December 28th, 2022

Thanks for all of your time and responses!

I have asked her numerous times what should I feel is any different about this time compared to the EA's in the past. How can I possibly expect things to be any different going forward. She feels that we never really put in the necessary work after the EA's. This time, were both in IC, MC is coming up, we read and pray together every night, etc. She feels strongly about this, and it is her plan for R and preventing it from happening again. She also recognizes that she needs drastic change in the way that she copes with things. Even with this being said, I do often feel that she's just trying to say what is necessary to keep me going forward. So far, the IC/MC is the only concrete thing in place other than her complete deletion of all social media and my access to her phone and everything.

During the past 2.5 months, she's been supportive of me when I ask questions, get upset, etc. She is just beginning to get somewhat irritated when I have setbacks. I tend to ask her a lot of questions and talk about things late at night before we go to sleep, and first thing in the morning when she wakes up. I'm not sure why, other than those being good times for me to get my thoughts and feelings out. This morning, she got irritated when I brought up the issues that we're having sexually. Since I began having anxiety/dysfunction issues, she has gradually been less and less in "the mood". She says that we need to not worry about sex for a while, as it's not that big of a deal anyway. I told her that it is a big deal to me and is very frustrating. Mostly, because it was very strong for the first 2 months after Dday, and was helping me to feel close to her and cope with things. Now, it's like a huge stab in the gut that I'm having these issues and her desire is waning. After all, the A was based purely on sex, so it definitely hurt my confidence drastically. This only makes it worse. She can't understand how this emotionless PA is so much harder on me than the EA's were that she was so emotionally tied into. She reiterated that it wasn't about sex to her, but about the escape from reality and the "newness" of it all. She says that sex is no big deal to her.

She tells me that I'm overthinking things with the A, sex, etc., and that it would help us if I just focused on the future. I can't seem to get across to her that it's not that easy for me and I still have a tremendous amount of trauma to process. I do feel that I have to decide to move on at some point, but as several of you pointed out, she is a definite serial cheater and I have little to work with in terms of trust and hope.

As far as the OBS, I do want her to know. And, that was a good point about me unintentionally using her knowledge as a bargaining chip for any potential D. I guess I've been so focused on us that I didn't think that far into it. My struggle is knowing that it's going to blow up a huge mess when I do tell her. If it ends up derailing any hopes of R, I do want my W to be willing to work with me on the details of any potential D. If I go straight to the OBS without my wife's participation, it could likely fire up a lot of strife between my W and I. I guess my goal is now to periodically bring it up until I have her on board with telling her. If she never gets there (which I don't have much confidence in), I'll have to eventually suck it up and just do it.

Posting as BS. PA DDay - 10/14/2022. EA DDay's - 2011, 2013, 2018

posts: 9   ·   registered: Dec. 24th, 2022   ·   location: LA
id 8771228
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 5:30 PM on Wednesday, December 28th, 2022

This is classic on her part. Don’t dwell on the past. Let’s move forward. Why can’t you just get over it. It was just meaningless sex.

Friend - this is very, very bad! Very bad. This is not remorse. You must understand this. Your WW is minimizing, doesn’t care about your pain, wants to forget about it snd move forward. All very bad signs for a successful R.

This is classic rug sweeping. This is no different than her EAs. She doesn’t care at all about the sexual dysfunction in you that she caused.

If she didn’t care about sex then she wouldn’t have had a PA. The PA was only about sex, snd now sex isn’t important? And do you really believe it was only about sex. This is someone you both knew well and a neighbor. I guarantee you there was an emotional aspect as well.

My gut tells me that you are being played by your WW. My recommendation is to firmly state your requirements in writing. If I may:

1. Complete and detailed timeline due 7 days from now.
2. A polygraph that you set up a few weeks from now
3. A compete reversal of her attitude. You will discuss the A, she will give you details, you will ask as many questions as you like, when you like, as often as you like, with complete snd honest answers.
4. Zero snd I mean zero defensiveness
5. Complete disclosure to OBS with all 4 of you present in the room
6. Boundaries delineated: full access to her phone snd social media, no relationships with the opposite sex without your knowledge snd approval
7. Complete and open discussion about the sexual trauma she caused you to and her plans to help remedy that situation - her sex doesn’t matter comment is hurtful, wrong, uncaring, selfish and the total opposite attitude to take. And, there is a lot more that I’m leaving out.

Right now, I do not see her as a good candidate for R. If your WW declines to do any of your requirements, plus the other things recommended by other posters, then I would calmly tell her that you don’t see a future with her snd that you will move forward with steps to protect yourself and move forward with your life on your own.

Your WW completely thinks that she is calling the shots and that you will fall in line as always. She hasn’t seen any anger from you, just steady eddy empath, so she is not incentivized to do anything other than give you the lip service you’re currently receiving.

I will guarantee you that without her meeting your requirements, you will be back on SI, sooner than later, with a report that she cheated again, or that you have new found anger and resentment, that she says stop bringing it up snd it’s all in the past, PTSD on your part, continued sexual dysfunction, moving forward with D, etc.

if she doesn’t comply with your requirements then have that talk. If the talk goes nowhere institute the 180. Simply stated, the situation as it stands now is untenable.

posts: 785   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
id 8771235
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 5:32 PM on Wednesday, December 28th, 2022

She feels that we never really put in the necessary work after the EA's. This time, were both in IC, MC is coming up, we read and pray together every night, etc. She feels strongly about this, and it is her plan for R and preventing it from happening again. She also recognizes that she needs drastic change in the way that she copes with things. Even with this being said, I do often feel that she's just trying to say what is necessary to keep me going forward

What "necessary work" did you need to do after her EA's? It doesn't sound to me like she means the individual healing a BS needs to accomplish after betrayal. The way you phrased that makes it sound like she believes her cheating is a relationship problem, and it's not. It's completely possible to have therapists, especially MC's, validate that belief, and much as I've said in my profile post, what happens next is predictable. If no change happens then nothing changes. Learning new coping strategies sounds like a caveat for her, like it's a secondary concern after your relationship gets fixed. Coping strategies are secondary to character, integrity, and boundaries. When you have all that settle, coping falls into place.

I don't know that I'd continue in a marriage with someone who felt like they needed outside validation to cope with being married to me. That's wholly different from someone who thinks they need outside validation in order to be able to cope with the void inside. Blaming the relationship IS blaming you.

It's been my experience that while you do want a proactive partner in R, it's not going to work on the WS's terms. It has to be on YOUR terms. If marriage was like driving a car, she's already driven off into the ditch. She can't be trusted to drive your R at this point. SHE needs to change. It's not a marital problem, it's a WS problem.

In terms of the sexual issues.. HB is normal and it's nice while it lasts, but it doesn't last forever. The obvious benefits are the cuddle hormones and feel-good biochemical cocktail which improves pair bonding. But there is a downside in that it's easy to ignore the reality of bad problems when we're all sated and buzzed up on hormones. WS's have been known to use sex as a pacifier, so in a way, it might be a good sign that your WW isn't trying to put you into a sex coma.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 7049   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8771237
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 6:52 PM on Wednesday, December 28th, 2022

I feel like I set R back every time I do this, but I also don't want to keep my thoughts and feelings bottled up. I feel as though I should move forward and not look back since I'm set on R, but that is so much easier said than done. Again, hoping that MC will help this along, along with us both being in IC.

I am definitely concerned that your desire to reconcile is greater than the desire to work through all the necessary aspects of infidelity. I'm concerned that your fears of holding your wife fully accountable of what she has done, and what she is doing, will lead to another unhealthy attempt to reconcile.

These are just some observations, and are not meant to bash on you:

--Fear of creating a rift by informing the OBS without your wife's consent. The truth is, your wife inserted herself into the OBS's life without consent, and the last thing that you should feel is necessary is for your wife to be 'on board' in letting her know the truth about her marriage.

--Accepting the reasoning for her past affairs. Just the fact that SHE is using her depression as the primary reason, without trying to drill deep, is extremely concerning. As a matter of fact, simply go to Hellfire's last post in the breakdown of your wife's lack of remorse. I have no doubt that you are seeing progress, but she is still quite a distance from being a good candidate for reconciliation.

Reconciliation takes work and it takes risk. You have to risk leaving your marriage if you are not getting the desired results. I think THIS is your biggest obstacle currently. I believe that your fear of losing the marriage overrides the risks needed to be taken(i.e. enforcing YOUR boundaries) to have a real shot at a healthy reconciliation attempt. Did you say, like the title of your thread, 'trying one last time' after her first infidelity? Her second? Third? In other words, is this really your last attempt, or something to say to help yourself to keep going?

Again, these are the questions that you really need to ask yourself. It's great that you both want to reconcile. It's HOW the two of you try to reconcile that is the key issue. Like ChamomileTea mentioned, it has to be on YOUR terms, not hers.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4350   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8771245
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CuriousObserver ( member #78743) posted at 7:10 PM on Wednesday, December 28th, 2022

Dude and CT gave you good advice.

IMO you are still kissing her backside. Your posts describe someone who expects you to, "Just get over it already!" She strikes me as a very good manipulator, who knows you and your weaknesses very well. You need to start educating yourself on your relationship dynamics. Some books I would recommend are: "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. Don't let the title fool you either. It is not about how to become an A**hole in 10 days. He will describe for you the Nice Guy Syndrome and how and why you developed that and how to overcome it. Next is, "The Dead Bedroom Fix" by DSO. He will describe the pathetic butt-kissing behaviors you are doing and how that makes her view you. Please know that these do not get a blanket endorsement from me, but they have some very helpful information that will help you see how you are contributing to her terrible treatment of you. And if you are thinking to yourself that she is not treating you terribly, that is most of the problem. After those, if you are ready for a cast iron skillet to the face, read, "The Manipulated Man" by Ester Villar. She is a bit over-the-top in some ways, but she will describe just how many women play men like you with ease. You need to wake up NOW.

Regarding the other spouse, your WW should not be involved with that if the AP were involved, as it would be breaking No Contact. Further, when you inform the OBS you will find out if she is breaking NC with the AP if she reacts to learning of it. Even learning of it via the coworker is breaking NC. You will learn just how remorseful she is. Regarding your daughter, how do you think she will take it when she learns about it from friends rather than from you? She will hear of it and will feel very betrayed by you. You can be age-appropriate and still get it done.

You can provide a list of your boundaries as Duke suggested but refrain from spelling out everything she should do. She was smart enough to conduct clandestine operations just fine, supposedly while her meds were incorrect and in a "very dark place", so she should be able to investigate necessary steps and DO THE WORK. I think you should back off on the sex, inform her that you are running away from infidelity as fast as your legs will carry you - if that leads to R or D, you will cross that bridge when you come to it - and that if she wants this marriage, she better start running after you and show that with her actions.

Then do the Hard 180. This is not to manipulate her but to remove you from being drawn back under her manipulation and emotional entanglement. You are really going to need to see your relationship/situation clearly as if you were counseling your own son or little brother in the same circumstances. All the best to you. Keep posting.

Listen to their words but believe their actions.
The power of a lie is that it is believed to be truth.

posts: 207   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2021   ·   location: USA
id 8771247
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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 12:16 AM on Thursday, December 29th, 2022

Have her read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda McDonald. That might help.

posts: 962   ·   registered: Aug. 27th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8771277
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 12:21 AM on Thursday, December 29th, 2022

Have you read https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/324250/things-that-every-ws-needs-to-know/?

I found that thread very soon after finding SI. It helped me evaluate how committed to healing my W was, and I recommend using it that way when R is on the table.

One of the things that stood out for me in that thread was that the A might be in the past for the WS, but it's in the present for the BS, and it's going to stay in the BS's present until the WS comes clean - and that may involve going over the same stuff again and again until the BS is satisfied.

*****

IMO, NC (No Contact) is very helpful in killing an A. Having your WS contact OBS breaks NC. I'm 100% for informing OBS - but it's your job, not your W's.

Ow came to our building on d-day; she wanted to force a meeting with my W. Believe me, I had no interest in talking to her. I would have rejected a call from her. OBS still pisses me off for not telling me of the A when he learned of it - he delayed my healing by 10 days, and I still blame him, 12 + a week since d-day.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

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id 8771278
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Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 9:57 AM on Thursday, December 29th, 2022

I know the advice you are getting is frustrating, but she isn’t showing a change in her mindset. She has been caught 3 times and has been very sorry each time. She doesn’t know how she fell into a 3rd A? This is a very important step in becoming a safe a partner.

Your story and her responses are very similar to my story, my WW was a serial cheater with multiple EA’s and a PA. The difference is she stopped immediately on Dday, she ran our R attempt and called the shots, I was to never mention any of the A’s and we just move on. She jerked me around for 2 months telling her friend she missed AP (he ghosted her) and she was going to play nice in R until she could leave me.

When I got here to SI the advice seemed harsh and counterproductive, I was assured there is more to her story, and you guessed it, SI was right. I was pissed!!! I was done and headed for D. She begged, she cried, but went 180 and told her not to speak to me, we would communicate through our attorneys, this was a Tanner she had never seen before.

Our WW’s are very insecure, they can’t handle rejection. She came to me rock bottom and pleaded for another chance. I required a written timeline, one omission and I would never believe a word from her, and would D. She laid it all out and it was a lot, I believe I have the truth and about a month of silence I offered R. It’s a long hard road and it takes both of you being all in.

We are doing well but it will never be the same. You have to always have an exit strategy, you have to know bull shit when you smell it, you have to demand honest communication. I don’t expect my W to cheat again but I will always remember what she is capable of and have to plan accordingly.

Please don’t rush this process, find your anger and put your foot down. She still believes she can control this.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 11:24 AM on Thursday, December 29th, 2022

I don’t expect my W to cheat again but I will always remember what she is capable of and have to plan accordingly.

It's funny(?) because my wife and I don't talk much about the cheating anymore, as it has been many years, but just yesterday she brought up how she can only imagine how much her cheating has hurt me, and she will never, ever do that again.

My response was like yours--although I don't expect her to cheat, I know that she has the capability to do so. It has already happened. I told her that the only way that she'll know that she will never do that again, is when she takes her last breath in this world....and hasn't done so to that point. I told my wife that I can say that I will never murder someone, but until my time has expired, and I haven't done it, will I know for certain.

Just my post-infidelity view of life. Thanks for the new lenses to look through....

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4350   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8771293
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Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 2:19 PM on Thursday, December 29th, 2022

She does not feel that she would be vulnerable in her current state of mind. She says that she feels like she was a totally different person before and during the A.

So what happens when she leaves her current state of mind? When my WW would say "I’ll never cheat again" I would cringe, that’s not what I wanted to hear. I wanted her to promise to protect the M. Not cheating again means she can walk up to the line, just not cross it.

A’s are highly addictive, there is a withdraw process and if not properly handled relapse is likely. An alcoholic can vow to never drink again. That means he can walk in a bar and put a drink in his hand as long as he doesn’t take a drink. No, he should protect his sobriety and never go near a bar again.

My W is capable of a relapse, so she has to always protect the M.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

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id 8771303
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 2:33 PM on Thursday, December 29th, 2022

She needs to understand that R is not linear. There will be good days,and bad. More bad than good,for awhile. She has placed you on an emotional roller-coaster. If she wants R,she needs to buckle up.

If you telling his wife the truth will derail your R, then you were never anywhere close to R. She should,as a WS who wants to heal understand that EVERYONE deserves the truth. Isn't it odd that she wants YOU to be ok with her having sex with another man,repeatedly...yet you telling the truth to a woman who needs that truth..is just too much for her to handle. duh

Do NOT tell your wife. She is nowhere near remorse. She WILL warn OM. He will tell his wife that the husband of an acquaintance is unhinged, and accusing all of your wife's male acquaintances of having an affair with your wife. That you're crazy and abusive. Then his wife will be scared of you,and won't listen to anything. We know this will happen because it happens all the time,when a BH includes their freshly caught WW in telling the OBS.

Also? If she confronts you about telling his wife, then you have proof that she is still speaking to him.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6683   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8771305
Topic is Sleeping.
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