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Reconciliation :
Will I always feel like I don鈥檛 have the entire story?

Topic is Sleeping.
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 Fret05 (original poster new member #83036) posted at 1:33 PM on Sunday, March 19th, 2023

We are 2 1/2 months out from DDAY. It was an affair with a coworker (from a different department/ floor in a huge hospital) that lasted 4 months. They talked on the phone every day, multiple times a day during the work-week. Met in a locked closet in the afternoons to make out and she performed oral on him 3 times. Never made it to intercourse. They never left the hospital grounds together. They told each other they loved each other. 馃檮

I鈥檓 confident I have the entire story when it comes to the physical affair. It鈥檚 the emotional affair I鈥檓 unsure about. He is ADAMANT he didn鈥檛 really love her and it was just empty words he said. He said there was never talk of long-term being together and he knew she wasnt someone he wanted to be with. Her side of the story and what she鈥檚 been telling her husband is that he鈥檚 downplaying the emotional part to me BIG TIME. She said he would tell her he thought about them being together in the future often (he denies that), that he told her that while our marriage wasn鈥檛 BAD, he felt a connection and passion with her that he doesn鈥檛 feel with me (he denies that), and she said that he told her once that he would leave me if she would leave her husband first (he denies that).

My husband said she was obsessed with him more than he was into her and that she wasn鈥檛 happy in her marriage and was already looking for reasons to leave her husband. My husband and I have always had a happy marriage and have always got along so well. He claims he never had any intentions of leaving me and that she鈥檚 trying to push blame on him when it was really her who was obsessed. He said there WAS an emotional element to the affair and he doesn鈥檛 deny that but it was not love and he can clearly see that now.

On DDAY, they were caught by the APs husband at work. My husband came straight home and wasted no time confessing to me all of the physical details and that they had been exchanging "I love yous". She denied the sexual details for a month and then finally told the truth. Now shes saying he is still lying about how emotional it was and that I鈥檓 just believing all of his lies. I have seen ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNS of him missing her or being upset over this ending. He has been doing everything right and sitting and talking with me often when I鈥檓 having a hard time and need to ask questions or talk it out. He immediately went no contact with her and hasn鈥檛 looked back. I have seen him cry over how much he has hurt me. It has wrecked him.

For the record.. my last conversation with her was a few nights ago and then I blocked her and her husband. So we are no contact with them now but I鈥檓 still just feeling like I don鈥檛 have the entire emotional story. I don鈥檛 know what I鈥檓 looking for posting this. Obviously I want to believe I have the whole emotional story and that she鈥檚 just crazy. But I keep wondering if it was deeper than what he鈥檚 portraying. Or is it that I will just always feel like I never got the entire story?

posts: 9   路   registered: Mar. 10th, 2023
id 8783001
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CFme923 ( member #82955) posted at 4:07 PM on Sunday, March 19th, 2023

I would not have contact with either the AP or the OBS. They need to focus on themselves as you need to focus on yourself and you can't do that with some outside party whispering in your ear.

Some people have scheduled polygraphs, that could be an option for you. Are you both in counseling? Are you reading books together? They can both help to unlock communication. If your WH is holding back for fear of facing consequences it will fester and trickle out.

posts: 79   路   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023
id 8783019
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 4:55 PM on Sunday, March 19th, 2023

My thoughts are..why would she tell that to her husband, if it wasn't true? It makes the fall out so much worse for her,when trying to R with her husband. OTOH, there's a lot of reasons your husband would lie about it to you. Fall out harder,more consequences, not wanting to hurt you more,and protecting himself.

I'd have him take a polygraph. The question could be,"have you told her the truth about your feelings toward the OW during the affair?"

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 5897   路   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   路   location: The Midwest
id 8783025
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CFme923 ( member #82955) posted at 5:27 PM on Sunday, March 19th, 2023

My thoughts are..why would she tell that to her husband, if it wasn't true? It makes the fall out so much worse for her,when trying to R with her husband. OTOH, there's a lot of reasons your husband would lie about it to you. Fall out harder,more consequences, not wanting to hurt you more,and protecting himself

Not necessarily. My WH's AP told her husband that my WH was at fault because he was obsessed and made similar claims. She failed a polygraph and confessed during MC that she lied because she thought her husband would go easier on her if she was being "pressured" and would leave her if he knew that she was actually the one asking for future plans. Her husband actually had texts where she asked my WH to leave me and he told her 'never in a million year' as she was not aware he had gotten into her phone.

Sometimes the truth lies somewhere in between the two stories is my point in all this rambling.

posts: 79   路   registered: Feb. 27th, 2023
id 8783029
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ChamomileTea ( Moderator #53574) posted at 5:52 PM on Sunday, March 19th, 2023

Your feelings are really very NORMAL this early on. It takes quite a bit of time to put "the story" of this trauma together and then to feel comfortable that you've got the facts right. Your brain is more or less an organic computer and all your files regarding your WH and his trustworthiness have been corrupted. It's natural that you feel the need to verify, and re-verify, and re-verify. At some point, your mind will finally accept one of those versions of the story as complete, or rather "compete enough". There might not seem much rhyme or reason to why, but the common denominator seems to be time. This early on, we're typically still reeling.

Consider that your WH has just destroyed your trust in him. He's a proven liar this early on, right? It's a big ask that you simply take his word that things were exactly as he's described, and not just a big ask from him, but from you as well. You're essentially asking yourself to settle on what you believe already. Try not to put so much pressure on yourself. It's early days. New trust is built by observing your WS's changes and his consistency over TIME. It's okay for you to have doubts, and even though it feels really uncomfortable to try and muddle through your day-to-day like that, indecision won't last forever. It's just part of what's happening now.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)
Married 40 years; in R with fWH for 8

posts: 6918   路   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   路   location: U.S.
id 8783036
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 6:06 PM on Sunday, March 19th, 2023

There are a million scenarios that could be the truth here. Who is lying will be hard to sort out.

Let鈥檚 say it was just innocent flirtation that started and then escalated and now it鈥檚 an affair. Okay. Is the cheating wife going to admit she鈥檚 that easy and willing to have sex with some random guy? Of course not. Not if she wants to R.

Is the cheating H going to admit things to his wife that he knows cannot be proven? Of course not.

I鈥檒l be honest about my ddays. Hopefully it helps. My H planned to D me for a much younger OW (single). Someone he knew a few months. Typical midlife crisis affair.

He told her he loved her. He planned to be with her. I saw it in writing. But dday2 was the day he realized he really didn鈥檛 love her.

But he was willing to ruin the lives of me & kids for what he believed to be love.

I don鈥檛 know if your H loved her or didn鈥檛 or said it and didn鈥檛 mean it or whatever.

I don鈥檛 think you will get the truth where you will feel satisfied that you have the truth. The cheating wife is covering her butt to R with her H. It is possible your H is doing the same.

I think you draw your own conclusions. And that is what you live by. At least that is what I did.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13550   路   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8783040
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jailedmind ( member #74958) posted at 8:40 PM on Sunday, March 19th, 2023

you never get the entire truth unless you were there. I found I got into a loop. Ask question get answer. Repeat same question asked differently looking for holes in the answer. I ruminated like crazy. Wouldn鈥檛 matter the answer it was never enough. It consumed me. Some need the truth some can live without it. You need to figure that out. And then there鈥檚 what is knowing going to do for you? You can never unremember. I look back now and some of it I could have lived without but my curiosity got the better of me and my pride. But you will need to find some peace with what you will know and what you never will.

posts: 127   路   registered: Jul. 21st, 2020
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OneInTheSame ( member #49854) posted at 9:29 AM on Monday, March 20th, 2023

I worked incessantly trying to find out how invested in her affair with her ex-gf my wife was. I mean I was convinced when I stumbled on their Messenger conversations that my wife either wanted her back in her life or regretted me. The words they exchanged made it hard not to think that. But in the end it all boiled down to one hard, ugly, undeniable fact that had little to do with loving: my wife saw an opportunity to pretend for a few hours, a couple times a week, that she was happier in their dysfunctional, unhealthy, and very irresponsible relationship than she was facing some tough adult challenges that visited our lives after about 15 years together. It was escape she was after. It was hard to come to the realization that my wife made most of the "first moves" that pushed her escape fantasy into becoming an affair. And while she verbally told her ex that it would end, it would go no where, and it meant nothing 鈥 her actions did not always reinforce those supposed boundaries.

No, I don鈥檛 think I know the whole story. Yes, that bothers me. But I know enough to know more clarity won鈥檛 change anything, nor would it improve anything. The exception to this would be to learn that they never stopped communicating. That I would not be able to abide.

(I edit to correct typos)
I am the BS in a lesbian marriage. My WW's ex-girlfriend was the AP.
D-day of the 6 mo A was 10/04/15
We are doing okay, but by now I wanted it to be better

posts: 2533   路   registered: Oct. 6th, 2015   路   location: Pacific Northwest
id 8783126
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DayDreamBeliever ( new member #82205) posted at 10:58 AM on Monday, March 20th, 2023

You can take this many ways

1. Why would she tell her husband this if it wasn't true/ it best serves him to say it was less the it was to you for reconciliation

2. She believed she meant more to him than she actually did and can't face the reality she wasn't more then sex/conversation

3. It is somewhere in the middle. He did have feelings for her and possibly still does but does not want to pursue a relationship with her. He wants to save his marriage and believed telling you he felt that way about her would just bring more hurt

4. Her husband has left her and she is now just trying to get you to leave him as she blames him for her marriage breakdown and wants the same result from him/ she wants your marriage to end so they try a relationship and she can say it was worth it

You never will know as 2 people have 2 perspectives of each situation. You cannot know for sure exactly how he feels as he is the only person who does. the issue is he showed you he can lie and has brought uncertainty to how he feels about you. He now needs to commit each day to not hurting you and you the same to him. You then need to get to a point where you make the choice to believe what he is saying to you but you will never just fall for what he says as you did before. People can love more then one person, they can lie and decieve, they can hurt people and they can be incredibly selfish. It's part of human nature and a gamble we take on another each and every day. Prior to an affair people enter relationships with rose tinted glasses. After an affair they have 20:20 vision

[This message edited by DayDreamBeliever at 10:59 AM, Monday, March 20th]

posts: 40   路   registered: Oct. 20th, 2022
id 8783128
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Grieving ( member #79540) posted at 1:12 PM on Monday, March 20th, 2023

They might both be telling the truth or an approximation of it skewed by their perspectives and what they want in the situation as it stands now. In affairs and relationships in general, often one person is more emotionally invested than the other.

My husband had and expressed lots of intense feelings for his affair partner, and she had even more for him. For a little while he had a hard time letting go, emotionally, even though he was committed to doing so. But we also had a happy, solid marriage overall, and I believe him that he never planned to leave me. Him falling in love with someone else still hurts very deeply, though, even though I believe him that he no longer has feelings for her.

I don鈥檛 know if you鈥檒l ever know the full truth or feel like you do. But if he鈥檚 no contact and fully invested in reconciliation and that鈥檚 what you want, I would keep the other woman blocked out and turn your focus to you and your husband. Ask the questions you need to ask, as many times as you need to ask them. Watch his actions and listen carefully. Figuring out where you are in all this, and figuring out whether you can be at peace with the story you have is a long process. So is reconciliation, if that鈥檚 what you choose to do.

I鈥檓 very sorry you鈥檙e here. Hugs and good luck to you. I understand the peculiar pain of being in a good relationship that ended up marred by a workplace affair.

Husband of 20 years had six month affair with co-worker. Found out 7/2020. Two teenaged kids. Reconciling.

posts: 533   路   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8783140
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Edie ( member #26133) posted at 3:51 PM on Monday, March 20th, 2023

The transactional side of this may simply have been trading 鈥業 love yous鈥 for sex. And maybe he meant he loved 鈥榠t鈥, the 鈥榚xciting鈥 illicit nature of cupboard gropes, the rush of feel good biochemistry, her infatuation with him, the novelty and change of mundane routine, the return to adolescence etc., rather than her but said 鈥榶ou鈥 because it was expected, or because she was more emotionally invested鈥 so many many options for the feelings and motivations. He鈥檚 probably still figuring it all out himself, as he emerges from the heady madness of it all - 鈥 the expense of spirit in a waste of shame is lust in action鈥.full of blame鈥 not to trust鈥 etc. Shakespeare sonnet 129 is worth a read.

It鈥檚 all about process, process of of discovery and recovery and can鈥檛 be rushed, as things unfold as the brain digs deeper into the mind-body. It鈥檚 a puzzle that takes a while, understanding increments upon understanding.

Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 kids 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) R'd.

posts: 6587   路   registered: Nov. 9th, 2009   路   location: Europe
id 8783146
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 7:46 PM on Monday, March 20th, 2023

Emotions and memories are both squishy and processed rapidly by the subconscious.

Even if you asked for the description of the feelings as they happened you wouldn't have the full or accurate story.

I think most people in A's do feel a sort of false but intense "love". Genuine/complete love doesn't have to hide in the shadows though.

I'm not trying to discourage getting the level of detail you need to heal, but it's very different than details of physical, objective events.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2494   路   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8783198
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Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 9:21 PM on Monday, March 20th, 2023

I had the same internal battle right after Dday. I finally came to the conclusion that you can never prove what someone is thinking, and after being lied to so much, you won鈥檛 believe it anyway.

My WW had an EA online and they exchanged ILY鈥檚. After the fog lifted my W insisted she didn鈥檛 love him, sure in hindsight she probably didn鈥檛, how could I prove it? I went with the fact she said it, whether she meant it or not. She鈥檚 guilty of telling another man she loves him.

She also had a PA. It was the same asking her if the sex was good, in hindsight, no it was awkward and stressful. How will I ever know the truth, or believe it? I went with the fact, she had sex with someone else.

Those were what I focused on and believe the answers, but it took a lot of time to get there.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

posts: 3026   路   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   路   location: Texas DFW
id 8783229
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Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 8:36 AM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

Part of the problem that we face as BSs is that not only does the story change, but the WS can sometimes believe that the changed story is the actual truth.

It's possible that he felt one way during the A but now, in the cold light of day, he sees that as a delusion based on fantasy and lies. So regardless of how strongly he felt about it at the time, he can now dismiss it as never having been real. He may have said those things but now he sees them as untrue. And because he never would have said them if he had seen them as untrue the time, he can justify denying ever having said them.

But it still matters that he allowed himself to believe that it was real at the time. It still matters if he said them. It matters that he acted on it as though it was real.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 6:12 PM, Friday, March 24th]

Me: 60, BS -- Her: 59, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled

posts: 517   路   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8783741
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jb3199 ( member #27673) posted at 12:15 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

Take your WH at face value on what he is telling you.

He said that they exchanged "I love yous" when he knew this information was going to be exposed. But let's say that it wasn't true, and he was just saying that to keep the AP on the hook, and to get what HE wanted.

Does that make him any better of a person.....knowingly using someone, and manipulating them, to get his wants met?

I'm not even addressing the AP here. She inserted herself into YOUR marriage without your consent, and there is no way to sugarcoat that. It's disgusting. I'm just asking you to look at your WH as if he is telling you the truth, and if that is a better answer than knowing he was deliberately manipulating someone for sex and attention.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married over 30yrs.

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary PuckettD-Day(s): EnoughAccepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 4304   路   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   路   location: northeast
id 8783754
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 12:17 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

But it still matters that he allowed himself to believe that it was real at the time. It still matters if he said them. It matters that he acted on it as though it was real.

Excellent point.

My H was kicking me to the curb during his affair. He wanted to D me. At first I thought he was confused but after a few weeks I realized he was serious.

Every time he says "I want a D" I said ok - we are getting a D. A few days later he would change his mind. He would ask me to reconsider. I would agree to "no Divorce" and then he would change his mind yet again.

After dday2 he realized a few things and that the OW was not what he thought she was and he didn鈥檛 want a D. He realized it was all one gigantic mistake.

However it doesn鈥檛 change the fact that he was so willing to kick me to the curb for something or someone that was a fantasy or based on delusional thinking.

It鈥檚 been 10 years but it still affects me in some ways. Just last week he called me out in saying that he has credit card debt (small balances but still it鈥檚 a balance). He said it is our debt b/c it is spending for the family.

I told him the only way I can survive his kicking me to the curb is financially protecting myself and we do not have joint credit card accounts. Therefore it鈥檚 HIS debt b/c if I had to leave tomorrow I am financially able to walk out the door and not worry about certain things, credit cards being one of them.

He was shocked. He had no idea the depths his affair affected me.

And sadly it鈥檚 something the cheater will never understand. It doesn鈥檛 matter my H didn鈥檛 D me - it matters he WANTED to D me and planned to D me and that the OW knew about it long before I did.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 12:19 PM, Friday, March 24th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13550   路   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8783755
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Want2BHappyAgain ( member #45088) posted at 3:27 PM on Friday, March 24th, 2023

But I keep wondering if it was deeper than what he鈥檚 portraying. Or is it that I will just always feel like I never got the entire story?

I was able to see for myself that NO ONE gets the entire story in the A triangle. In MY case...I was able to actually get MORE from the story than either my H or the adultery co-conspirator even knew!!!

In MY case...my H had a 9 1/2 week PA with a stranger he met on Tagged. He was working alone overseas...and wrote that he was a happily married man looking for NSA sex while he was in that country. Out of over 100 women he contacted...even continuing while he was having his A...only ONE woman agreed to this. She was obsessed with America...and told my H the only reason she went for this was because he was an American. She started telling him she loved him after 2 weeks...he told her the night before he left her country that he never thought he could love 2 women at the same time. He confessed his A to me 2 days after coming home.

I didn't know about SI on Dday. But I knew that in order for me to even consider R...my H was going to have to send the adultery co-conspirator a NC message. It was my 1st ultimatum...and he started writing it immediately. I could tell that there was still some sort of connection he felt with her...and he even wrote to her that what they had was REAL...but in order to work on our M he would not be contacting her ever again.

He then wrote something that puzzled me...he wrote that I was the one who made him happy. When I questioned him about it...he told me how the adultery co-conspirator told him that ALL she ever wanted was for him to be HAPPY...even if it wasn't with HER. Then he told me how the adultery co-conspirator was JUST LIKE ME because she was soooooo NICE. Yeah right...a woman who willingly spreads her legs for a married stranger...that was NOT nice...and definitely NOT me!!!

Because of the time difference between the two countries...the adultery co-conspirator wouldn't be reading the NC message until long after we would be asleep. My H tossed and turned that night...and I could tell he was distraught over how the adultery co-conspirator would be hurt by his message.

The first thing my H did when we got up was look at his phone to see if she replied. And MAN...did she EVER!!! She was PISSED!!! She let him know that he was a FOOL for choosing me over her because NO ONE could make him happy like SHE could...lol!! She went on to tell him some things that showed him that SHE was lying to HIM just as much as HE had been lying to HER!!! I saw the fantasy land LURVE feelings DRAIN from his body. I WISH everyone could be able to witness the moment the REALITY sets in for the Waywards!!!

My H got so ANGRY at her reply!! When I read it...I told him that she was just writing this from a place of pain...and she would probably apologize later. He said he didn't care...THIS reply showed him who she really was...and he wanted NOTHING more to do with her. He has NEVER looked back after that day.

Your husband MIGHT be feeling the same...especially if the adultery co-conspirator IS lying...and he would know! The emotions during an A are really driven by hormones...and once the hormones start to equalize...the emotions may be different as well. My H was planning on keeping the A secret...and get his "HIT" of dopamine by contacting the adultery co-conspirator periodically. He just didn't plan on the immense GUILT he felt when he saw me at the airport. It seems that this may be the case with your husband too?

One thing that is said often on here...ACTIONS over WORDS. If your husband is truly remorseful and is now focusing on helping YOU to HEAL...those are GOOD actions! Time will tell if his actions are sincere...because if they aren't...he won't be able to keep up the charade. Affair emotions are FAKE. All A's stem from two SELFISH people who USE each other to get their selfish desires met. They will portray what they need to...in order to get what they want.

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

posts: 6540   路   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2014   路   location: Southeastern United States
id 8783827
Topic is Sleeping.
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