SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So you decided it’s okay to kiss other women and "a discussion" is what is needed.

Fine. Your culture is different.

But you still haven’t answered the repeated question about why you are here and what is happening in your relationship.

You have accused your partner of being a prostitute. You have said she accepted something (you never really said what) in return for sex.

In some states in the USA, that is legal. So that might mean your wife’s "culture" is different from yours, and she is going by Nevada standards…

I’m being sarcastic here because the truth is you crossed a boundary, excuse it with a wave of the hand, won’t tell us what happened with your wife, so…..

In my culture we even have a word for kissing outside the relationship and while it is something that needs to be addressed or discussed, people don't see it as cheating or a deal breaker.

I know in some cultures kissing can even be a common greeting. However it's generally not accompanied by...

I was horny, I was drunk and I've got a once in a lifetime offer. (Ok, I had a second one, too)

Is it common in your culture to get drunk, horny, and make out with the opposite sex just to say "hi?"

I called my gf then immediately an we spoke about it.

Did you mention the drunk and horny "once in a lifetime offer" part? Once in a lifetime for what? If it's common in your culture I wouldn't think it would be a "once in a lifetime" offer...

Here's the whole Story.

When I met my wife thirteen years ago, she told to me after a few months that she would like to be an au-pair in New Zealand for six months. She was afraid that it wouldn't work out and wanted to call the whole trip off, but I encouraged her to go through with it and that our relationship would be fine.

I had a part-time job at a bar at the time and there was a coworker, let's call her Tifa,that every guy liked. She was very pretty, had red hair, green eyes and very nice curves. It really was the case that every guy talked about her. I had a few shifts with her, we got on well. Two weeks before my girlfriend came back from New Zealand I invited the coworker to a party to set her up with a friend of mine.

At the end of the party, two of my friends came up to me and said: "Hey, Tifa really likes you". I couldn't believe it and just thought to myself: "yeah, sure", but at some point I noticed this gleam in her eyes and when the party was more or less over, she actually asked me if she could come over to my place - that's actually never happened to me before in my life, I'm just an average-looking Guy.

We then rode our bikes to my apartment and sat there on the couch and I still couldn't believe that this was really happening. I offered something to drink and we looked into each other's eyes and started to kiss kiss.

BUT, even though

I was totally drunk, because at this party the alcohol was free, and

I hadn't had sex for three months with my girlfriend - and, very importantly,

I had a bet with a friend at the same time about how long we could go without porn,

I didn't manage to finish what we started for the simple reason that it didn't feel right, actually, it felt sooo wrong and I don't want to have sex with someone if it doesn't feel right. I then asked her to go home as I had to get up in the morning because I was on shift, which was really true, and I immediately called my girlfriend on Skype. I confessed everything straight away and she shed a tear but said we'd talk about it when she comes back in two weeks. In the end she forgave me and although I admit, that for two years I had always wondered what if, I am now very proud that I broke it off back then.

I am confused when those cheaters say they always felt guilty or that it felt wrong but still couldn't stop it.

[This message edited by Shino at 6:34 PM, Tuesday, January 6th]

Shino,

SINCE YOU ADMITTED THAT YOUR "PROSTITUTION STORY" IS A LIE,

you don’t deserve more time from honest people.

[This message edited by 5Decades at 2:30 PM, Tuesday, January 6th]

I think it comes down to if you respect yourself, and you respect your spouse.

Low self esteem, giving them an excuse to get validation elsewhere.
Feeling disconected with their spouse, growing apart, stress, busy lives.
Poor self control, and thinking their spouse is responsible for all their issues in life.

If you have poor self control, no impulse control, and are weak minded and can justify hurting the one person that should be safe with you then that's what a cheater thinks.

Ultimately it's selfish, they are lost in the moment, and have no regrets until the consequences arrive. They believe they are owed some sort of magical connection, validation or rescue from unhappiness, or a perceived lack of attention or affection from their spouse, so they get that quick dopamine hit from cheating. It has all the warm fuzzies a new relationship does, and they get to hide behind their insecurities and have their cake and eat it too.

It's the ultimate betrayal, PTSD, and gives lasting trauma that never stops giving. Cheating is just a cheap excuse for bad behavior.

Being ignored, not heard, your partners flaws, not being validated, not enough attention, feeling lonely, lack of intimacy, communication, or wanting to be desired give a cheater plently of emotional validation to carry on, without a care in the world.

If they weren't WEAK people they would fix the issues, or they would leave in a healthy way. Unfortunately there are plenty of people out there that are willing to join them in the destruction of your life. Many probably feel the risk is worth the reward, right up till the point when they lose everything. When that happens regret sinks in, and they have a sudden epiphany that they want it all to go away and you to forgive and forget like it was nothing.

The biggest hipocrates are the ones that would be 1000 miles away if you did it to them, and it would be unconscionable for them to be the one that was betrayed.

In the end they often have issues with communication, and healthy boundaries. No one cheats by accident. Lots of steps take place where they could walk away and say NO, but they don't.

In my culture we even have a word for kissing outside the relationship and while it is something that needs to be addressed or discussed, people don't see it as cheating or a deal breaker.

dude seriously. no just no.

Shino, you'll get different answer depending on who you ask

A unremorseful cheater will put the blame 100% of the BS.

A clueless non BS will blame the BS for 50% of the WS'S A.

Here on SI , we blame the cheater 100%

[This message edited by Dorothy123 at 12:21 PM, Wednesday, January 7th]

Shinzo -what you may not understand about a lot of cheating circumstances—-often the cheater doesn’t even care about themselves. They betray themselves in having an affair because the are doing things that are not in their best interest.

I was very numb at the time of my affair. I have never had a period in my life where I have been more emotionally flat. I sort of just wanted to die in some ways. It’s hard to care about others when you don’t even care about yourself.

That’s not the case in all cheating situations but the ones who compartmentalize and just want more or different sex believe there won’t be consequences because the are so clever.

For me I didn’t care about blowing up my life.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:01 PM, Wednesday, January 7th]

Muggle wrote:
The biggest hipocrates are the ones that would be 1000 miles away if you did it to them, and it would be unconscionable for them to be the one that was betrayed.

This is a factor for me that maybe shouldn't be a factor, but if the shoe was on the other foot and I cheated on my wife I know she wouldn't leave me. She has of course told me that, but I knew that before all the crap hit the fan in our marriage. They're not just empty words from her. I know she'd choose R if it happened the other way around. It is something I considered in making my decision to try to R.

Shino,

So you had a girlfriend you presumably agreed to be monogamous with. After finding out this woman was interested in you, you didn't say that you were flattered but taken, or anything of that sort. Then you agreed to take her home with you, with the intention of having sex. You kissed her.

Sure, maybe you didn't actually have sex with her, but what part of that scenario isn't infidelity? You chose to do things that would hurt your girlfriend at every turn. If you want answers about why cheaters do what they do, this is a good place to find them. But I would also encourage you to look inwards for them. You should reevaluate where your boundaries should be for any current or future relationships as well.

As for me, I felt guilt and like it was wrong at every turn during my affair. I didn't stop because, selfishly, the companionship, validation, and escapism that I was getting from xAP mattered more to me then than how I thought my BH would feel if he found out about it. I compare it to addicts who destroy their lives and families for their highs, time after time. They are hooked and they can't stop, even as their families are suffering and everything is falling apart around them.

To go back to your subject line question, "Why don't they think of the children," when I was still trying to reconcile, one of the things my stbx put in his written disclosure is that his married AP (with 3 kids) said, "My kids are the most important thing in my life. I will never leave my family," and "You and I have a choice, the kids do not" as a reason for why she didn't want to divorce her husband. Stbx and I also have a child, who was of similar age to AP's children. Why did he tell me all this? Because it was evidence that she "also wanted to end things."

Do you think things ended? Nope. Over 3 years, stbx and AP "broke it off" something like 10 times. They would go no contact for a week or two, then my stbx would check in on her, then the affair would resume.

This woman who claimed that her kids were so important and who knew that her choices could destroy their lives didn't manage to stay away from my stbx. Why? Will we ever really know? I think the bottom line is that being with him made her feel good, and the desire to feel good overwhelmed the scruples about her kids. Future pain (the kids) is easier to ignore than present pain (not seeing your AP), and it's way less motivating than immediate pleasure.

As for my stbx, he is the child of a bitter divorce. He grew up without seeing his dad. He swore when we got married that he would never want to put his own children through that, and then he tried to guilt trip me about our kid when I recently told him I wanted a divorce. Obviously he should've considered this before starting an affair, but he was too wrapped up in all their lovey-dovey feelings. I still believe that if she was willing to divorce her husband (who knew about the affair long before me, btw), he would've dumped me and our kid.

Hypocrisy is part of human nature. So is not thinking about future consequences. In your personal example with your girlfriend, you knew you weren't risking a lot and yet you stopped because it didn't feel right. In my case, he had worked beside this woman for a year and was in love with her. He felt great with her, even if the lying and secrecy at home drove him to drink.

So for some kinds of cheating, I'd say that nothing matters as much as those good feelings. It's very much like how a drug addict or alcoholic destroys the lives of their children.

So I am an average looking guy and since the 12 years I am with my my wife, married for 6, I had two times the opportunity to make some love with two extremely gorgeous women. Man I was so tempted, it was really hard to resist. I am even thinking about posting one story here where I stopped after kissing bc it felt wrong even though I was drunk as sh*t.

Well, since my wife gave birth to our beautiful boy, I am far less attracted by the other gender. I still picture some beautiful girls I met naked, but more out of curiosity than desire.

And when I look at my boy of two years and my newborn daughter, I could never forgive myself for tearing this family apart. I would never betray them like this. I'll rather die.

So how can other people do that? Destroying your own children?

You answered yourself already. But do you really want to know the truth?
If so I will pose you few question - it will be uncomfortable -

You felt tempted and felt really hard to resist.

You resisted = did not cross that line and betrayed. <-- this part, no matter how morally good is, is irrelevant.
The important part is "why did you feel tempted?"

To answer it, go back to that moment, look what emotions and sensation did you feel. What mattered in that moment.

I am even thinking about posting one story here where I stopped after kissing bc

You kissed another woman who was not your partner. (a sexual act between 2 adults, one of which in a relationship)

What is your definition of betrayal?
Do you feel comfortable to disclose this to your wife and children?

since my wife gave birth to our beautiful boy, I am far less attracted by the other gender. I still picture some beautiful girls I met naked, but more out of curiosity than desire

When you are committed to your wife, the other gender is her.
Why do you feel attraction to - other women - of your wife's gender?
Why do you fantasize of picturing them naked?

You should understand what the concept of sexual attraction is, what is its purpose, and objective.

I could never forgive myself for tearing this family apart. I would never betray them like this. I'll rather die.

So how can other people do that? Destroying your own children?

If you tell your wife that you felt tempted, kissed, or picture other women naked, but ensure her you will never betray, what would her reaction be?

This will be the most painful, but try to answer honestly about her reaction, if she will be cool with these sexual exploits or she would feel betrayed by it.

I think we do not have to tackle emotional infidelity yet, just try to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you would show this post of yours to your wife.

the shoe was on the other foot and I cheated on my wife I know she wouldn't leave me. She has of course told me that, but I knew that before all the crap hit the fan in our marriage.

Same. My H told me very early on in our M that he wouldn't necessarily leave me if I cheated. I thought that was odd. Now, I see it as red flag. It makes sense that he could justify his cheating if he didn't think it was cause for him to D me.

I want to address another comment on this thread, the one about the limbic system getting activated and us becoming out of control. I have to disagree with that, at least to a degree.

Yes, our brains are flooded with chemicals when our limbic system is activated. And, no, that does not mean we can't control ourselves. Being able to think ourselves out of emotions is part of being human, if we are aware enough.

I know when I'm triggered. I can stop myself from reacting and think about what triggered me and why. I can decide whether or not my emotions are rational. I control my emotions. My emotions don't control me.

Same. My H told me very early on in our M that he wouldn't necessarily leave me if I cheated. I thought that was odd. Now, I see it as red flag. It makes sense that he could justify his cheating if he didn't think it was cause for him to D me.

I've since thought about it in that light also. Maybe I should have seen that as a red flag. I don't know. She doted on me for almost our entire marriage. A couple of decades. She's always been very expressive about her love for me since the early days until I got on sertraline and went flat on her then we started drifting apart.

That said, on a side note, I'm not a very strong proponent of SSRIs. I can see their utility for the short term or extreme cases, but I really think they're over prescribed and there are potential side effects, which I experienced, that most Dr's don't warn you about. They can affect you both intimately and emotionally. They can suppress your dopamine levels. I didn't realize how emotionally blunted and numb they made me when I was on them. I don't think they're a good thing to be on for an extended period of time. I was on them for years. It was no excuse for my wife to cheat, but they did not help my marriage.

I weaned off of them a couple of years ago and it took about 2 years for the worst of those side effects to start going away, and I may experience some lingering effects for the rest of my life. I've been doing a lot of digging into them. I'll never take anything like that again.

I don’t think I’m special in any way. Think I am probably an average middle aged married guy, with average ethics, average morals and all that.
Last time I went into a strip-club was about 15-20 years ago when my WIFE asked me to chaperone her single, comparable age, alcoholic brother to one. He works in a remote area and hits civilization 2-3 times a year and "celebrates" by remaining in a state of alcoholic semi-stupor and going to extremely seedy strip-clubs to get his "needs" attended. Although not my thing, then harmless enough. Only... if he went alone he usually woke up in some alley without his wallet and watch.

So my wife asked me to go with him, and make sure he got back home safely.
We both got offers for services, and while he accepted and slid away to some dark booth, I ended up buying an expensive cocktail for a nice young woman. This was after explaining to her my role there – that I was there to chaperone my BIL and had no interest in any services. We ended up having a nice enough conversation that eventually turned to her origins (Eastern Europe), how she came here and what her aspirations were. She told me that the drink bought her 20 minutes with me but after that she was expected to have either gotten me to buy another drink or some sexual service in a booth in the back. After about an hour, a big burly bouncer checked in on her. It was a slow night, so eventually I ended up having a nice conversation with the two bouncers, the barman, the girl and a couple of other girls.

Got my BIL out of there with his wallet (probably empty by then) and his watch and called my wife to pick us up.

Two things from this story:
My wife trusted me to go there, despite us never having had a conversation about what boundaries apply in strip-clubs. She KNEW I wouldn’t cheat, KNEW I wouldn’t get too drunk, KNEW I wouldn’t spend all our cash. Not because I’m special but because I’m normal. I think those that cheat are the exception – the special ones.

The second thing:
Those involved in the sex-industry are just plain and simple people. That East-European girl had a BS in chemistry. Unfortunately, her perky body rather than her sharp mind was her ticket out of poverty. The tough bouncers that wouldn’t hesitate to empty your wallet before kicking you out – they had kids, supported the local team and all that. I think the reason I got through to all these people was mainly because I talked to them as equals.

Temptations only work if you view them as temptations.

I think those that cheat are the exception – the special ones.

Idk about that. If you look at the statistics, the perceent of cheaters is pretty high, and that's just the ones who admit it.

She doted on me for almost our entire marriage. A couple of decades. She's always been very expressive about her love for me since the early days

My H was the same. He's CoD and acts of service is (was?) his love language. He absolutely doted on me.

As to SSRIs, I'm not a big proponent of them, or most pharmaceuticals, however sometimes they are necessary in order to live a somewhat normal life. I was diagnosed with major depression when I was 15. I had probably had it since at least 13, around the time puberty ramped up.

I struggled for years about taking meds for it. I don't like taking meds for anything. Finally, at the age of 46, I accepted that I needed to be in antidepressants for the rest of my life if I wanted any semblance of a normal life.