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Asterisk,

It would be easy for some to think I am thrilled about the affair and I submit that that would be an oversimplification of my statement.

I actively hate the affair.

Hate it with every fiber of my being.

Hate it with all those little molecules too, down through my DNA.

I take great comfort in hating every second that was stolen from me.

I'm no perfect picture of peace.

As I've said, I feel what I feel, then I drive my focus over to the better stuff.

I can accept that it actually happened without being okay with it.

I guess, in a faith based way, I hate the sin, but I love the sinner.

Forgiveness has proven to be a powerful tool here at home.

Would we be more, is an unanswerable question.

Ah yes, I've been haunted by this ghost too.

My answer for my marriage is no, we would not have been more.

The marriage we had, all of that lovable innocence was also filled with distance we didn't know we had, it was a guessing game about our feelings, it was keeping our fingers crossed, and worst of all, it was more about what we could get from the other -- which made things transactional.

The A burned things back down to the foundation, and made us figure out how to be married.

We are way better at it today. Kindness, care and giving is a far better way to start everyday than what we had before.

We are more now.

And I'm grateful.

But what is answerable is what we have overcome.

Boom. This is the good stuff.

My wife and could have given up. Heck, the front door still works, either of us can use it one last time if we so choose.

Somehow, some way, we chose each other.

We do that every morning.

It is weird to me how liberating choice can be.

I still carry some pain, some shame, some hurt, a massive amount of puzzlement mixed with inquisitiveness.

Pain and puzzlement, I'm with you.

However, I see no reason for shame.

All you have ever done is love your family with the best information you had at the time.

I see before me an honorable man.

A man who kept his vows, kept his family first and leads by example, despite ALL of that pain.

I think you should be proud of you.

My problem is, I am a manmade contradiction seeking an explanation for the un-understandable.

Welcome to the club. Make yourself as comfy as you can.

I still have no explanation for a choice I've not made!

I see before me an honorable man.

A man who kept his vows, kept his family first and leads by example, despite ALL of that pain.

I think you should be proud of you.

Agreed

Formerpeopleperson,

I didn’t take offence with your curse comment. I thought it to be fun and tried to be funny back with the "bummer". But, as it is with short texting type replies that are void of inflection, the meanings of phrases can be easily misinterpreted. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

As to your next reply.

You say things are better now. Have you brought up that statement with her? Given her a chance to "update"? I think you should. Remember about making yourself vulnerable.

Things in all areas are much better now. As tough as that statement about the 1st time, it has been cleared up. This doesn’t mean her statement of fact doesn’t still sting at times, but I no longer live thinking that my wife hates sex with me. It was more along the lines she did not give herself permission to enjoy sex because of old family of origin issues that were prior to me and religious dogmas about sex and sin. We don’t want me to get started on explaining my feelings about sex and sin, it won’t be pretty, so let’s let the dog bone left buried.

Asterisk

Hippo16,

Get the book:
The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma

I might just do that, thank you for the suggested read. I have just received another book, and it is a long one so I’ll be wrapping my mind around its ideas for the next week or two.

Asterisk

Unhinged,

Your wife seems to have some major issues with communication. At 70 years old, I doubt that is ever going to change. Now I really understand why you've struggled with all of this shit on your own.

She has a different type of communication, one that often leaves me scratching my noggin. But in her defense, she has come along ways in this area but mostly on anything not affair related. Because of childhood messaging supported by biblical teachings, she worked under the suppression of religious dogmas about women being silent and sex being something that takes away one’s purity. To her, sex stripped something of great value to her (and I) - her virginity, i.e. purity. I never saw either of those beliefs as how she "should" live her life and I didn’t realize she did because she didn’t friggen talk to me about it because she believed she was not allowed as a faithful follower of Christ to say anything! Breaks my heart every time I think about it.

Shit, Shit SHIT!!! Between my response to Formerpeopleperson and yours, I’m getting hot under the collar, so let’s just move along.

I am glad that you have a better understanding of my predicament, thank you for sharing that, it really helps to be more understood.

Asterisk

[This message edited by Asterisk at 11:08 AM, Tuesday, November 18th]

Oldwounds,

The list of things you hate about the affair are all extremely reasonable. Until your reply I don’t think I have ever given much thought to whether I carried "hate" of anything about the affair or her affair partner. At the time of D-day, I still was operating my life under strict religious beliefs. One of those beliefs was I was not to "hate" anything. I am not saying that I was correct only that "hate" was not an allowed reaction or response. Even now, knowing the good that came out of a terrible situation, a "redemption" of sorts, I still can’t say I hate any of it with two exception…I hate how I feel and I hate any of my poorly conceived reactions to the affair.

One more thing about this. I have never hated her affair partner, nor have I placed an equal or more amount of blame on him over my wife. In fact, I place more blame on her for she had made a sacred vow whereas her affair partner had not. Now, he was a very close friend and there are unwritten rules and he betrayed them and me, so he’s not off the hook. All that said, I have never hated him or wished him harm. In fact I wish I could have had the opportunity to reconcile with him for losing his friendship has been a painful loss.

The A burned things back down to the foundation, and made us figure out how to be married.

I would offer to you that my wife and I did the same thing and as with you and your wife, our new marriage is extraordinary, full of intimacy, warmth and care for each other. This is why I’m the one with the problem. I’m the one that needs to get his head back into the moment and out of the past. All of you have been of great assistance in helping me in recognizing my need to value the now over the then.

Pain and puzzlement, I'm with you.
However, I see no reason for shame.

Shame does not understand reason. It operates under whole different sets of rules that does not easily shift due to logical explanations. I’ll try to explain what I mean this way:

When an innocent person is drug out into the public square and is stripped naked in front of the crowed for something they did not do, they rarely raise their head in defiance and proudly stand straight with pride as they bare all for all to see. That is not how most of us are wired. Our first instinct is to turn away from our peers as we attempt to use our hands and body positioning to hide our private parts and then do everything possible to escape the scene. We typically don’t stop and calculate our situation logically. At those moments most of us seek the darkness where we can hide our shame, even though we have done nothing wrong. And if we cannot find clothing we stay in the arms of the shadows. Even if we do find body covering, we most likely will do all that we can to avoid anyone that was in the public square.

So, it is with me. I am naked in front of all of you and I am dealing with the shame of nudity even though I know logically, I have no reason to do so. Does anyone here realize that I’ve not shared any of this with anyone for over 30 years? Why would I do that? Because of shame and now I’m being forced, not by anyone here, rather I am forcing myself to bring the nudity of my shame out from the darkness, standing tall with hands at my side for all of you to see and possibly judge. For God’s sake, why am I doing that? So, I can dimmish shame’s effects on my self-worth. I am not sure if I will succeed and not retreat seeking the familiarity of the blackness that has safely cradled me for 3 decades.

Asterisk

I'm confused. You feel shame for reaching out for help? Do you think you "should" be able to resolve all of this on your own?

Unhinged, you never cease to amaze me how direct to the point you are. No fluff words. LOL

Honestly, yes I feel shame for reaching out and yes, I approached recovery thinking I was smart enough to figure it out. I am not saying I was wise for taking that stance only that I felt I had no other options. I was trained to seek help through prayer and scripture. I was greatly encouraged not to reach out to anyone outside of that sphere. And that sphere was failing me so all I had was me to find my way through this. And I did extremely well in some areas keeping my love for my spouse alive and strong. But I failed to understand me and what long term problems, that I could have avoided, if I had sought professional help verses spiritual dictates.

Asterisk

There's absolutely no shame at all in reaching out for help. 85,000+ people have reached out for help on this site alone!

Seeking help isn't a weakness; it's a strength.

ETA: I knew I needed help back in the day. Before d-day, I'd have never joined a support group or read self-help books. Pfft! I'm strong enough, smart enough, and blah, blah, blah...

Live and learn, right?

[This message edited by Unhinged at 3:49 PM, Tuesday, November 18th]

You do not have to shame yourself into compliance as that can create more cognitive dissonance to wade through.

I find this an interesting perspective, and I want to push back. However, this concept you are suggesting has been presented to me, in different phrasing more times than I’m comfortable with. I’m not discomforted with it being suggested, rather that I’ve learnt to respect opinions here and am unsure of what I might be missing. I just don’t see honest, self-reflection as necessarily being "shaming" or "too hard on myself" as it has been said. In my mind, to not do so would be a shame on me for not being hard enough on myself, right?

Hi- I wanted to marinate in your response a little more before I came back because I really want to connect the dots better.

Honest reflection is great when you can do it without being hard on yourself. Now that may seem confusing but I am going to try and explain it.

When we tell ourselves things like "I am being unsafe" indicating that the behaviors are equivalent then you are signaling to yourself to feel shame for not doing better. It’s a little nugget of self abandonment when we have to twist ourselves towards a different behavior.

Instead, it would be better to say "I think I owe it to myself to have a deeper relationship with my wife, to have more peace of mind, despite her past actions" That is using self compassion for how you got here- a normal reaction to infidelity- and stating what it is you want to succeed in moving forward for you. Because you are worth having what you want.

There is an inherent shame a lot of bs’s feel when they take back someone who cheated. It’s common to say "I don’t want a divorce" "I want my kids to grow up with both parents" or whatever logical thing that makes sense to take them back, but those reasons sort of come with the idea that you have to self abandon your need (for loyalty, be purely loved, etc) in order to make the picture whole. That sends shaming signals because it sort of saying to that you have to settle. When we develop a pattern of that it negates the idea we love ourselves because we keep negotiating our worth with what we will accept in its place.

And these can be anything from a micro abrasion to significant wounds and the amount of shame we collect over it is congruent, but can accumulate . With infidelity, it’s big. It’s difficult to allow yourself to be vulnerable enough to fully be in the relationship. You hold part of yourself separate.

That’s a normal reaction to infidelity. I believe those who feel satisfied with reconciliation eventually allow that piece of it to go because they know they deserve marital satisfaction, and it’s not so much that the ws has proven themselves though that has to be there, but that bs has learned to be the source of their own emotional safety.

Meaning they have come to terms with they have their own back and if something comes down the road in the marriage they do not like they have developed enough self confidence they know they will be okay without that spouse. It allows them to shed the cognitive dissonance by fully choosing what they want rather than being forced by circumstance or fear. They are fully owning what they want without shame or self abandonment.

Saying that you are unsafe to your wife is a false narrative. You may have simply been afraid to give her your heart back. So instead look at that with compassion and sit with questions more about what you want and why moving forward.

I think you are a huge romantic. And that is as I said to you before a blessing and a curse. Changing the narrative without trampling on that romanticism may require some sort of reset or fresh start. Perhaps a vow renewal as an acknowledgment of being two new people. But you are going to need to work through that vulnerability and fear thing and declare yourself safe in the relationship. That doesn’t have to be contingent on her, it is healthy for it to be contingent on you.

You are as innocent to these wounds today as you were when they happened. The only person you are being unsafe to is yourself.

Yes, I agree, I was innocent to the old wounds today as I was then, however, I still maintain that if am refusing to let go of the past that I am wounding both my wife and me. If, in fact, this is what I am doing, then to I allow bad behavior on my wife’s part to justify bad behavior on my part then, is both wrong and making me "unsafe" to both my wife and me.

Think less about what’s right or wrong. Accept what is. She threw a grenade into your marriage. It has taken you longer to pick out the shrapnel.

And does she feel unsafe in your marriage? Likely not. I would say for a large part of your marriage wouldn’t you say she has likely been oblivious?

Change the narrative to "I am going to let go of the past so I can have what I direly want and need. Peace and a closer relationship with my wife." No shaming needed.

And when you want to go down that rabbit hole you state that again and change the channel in your head. It’s hard at first, because your mind wonders there without permission. But with some mindfulness and practice you can start to give yourself safety from these thoughts that no longer serve you.

Peace be with you.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:15 PM, Tuesday, November 18th]

All of this insight is so well thought out and on point with what I'm going through as well. I currently struggle with this notion of us being in an improved marriage but the method with which we got here had to be through something so hurtful and tortuous. It's as if I'm resisting the improvement because embracing it somehow validates her choice. In other words, she would somehow be able to say we got to this improved place because she had the affair. I know that's probably irrational thinking but I think that's what's keeping ME with one foot stuck in the past. We were on vacation last week with our family and having a great time, but my mind was somehow resisting it and felt the need to wander to a spot where I began to wonder if she hadn't been caught, pursued divorce, would her AP had been on vacation with my family instead. I should/can control these crazy thoughts but it's difficult to do so. I think subconsciously, I feel like I need to make sure she's absorbing an appropriate amount of the "shrapnel" (mentioned previously) vs. what I've had to, by being miserable for a few hours on vacation to drive home that point. I'm thankful, 4 years post Dday, that we are mostly in a better spot these days but the example above is still happening too often for my liking. Remaining stoic has helped in my journey but it still takes an exhausting amount of energy.

[This message edited by Bos491233 at 4:56 PM, Tuesday, November 18th]

Hey Bos -

I think subconsciously, I feel like I need to make sure she's absorbing an appropriate amount of the "shrapnel" (mentioned previously) vs. what I've had to, by being miserable for a few hours on vacation to drive home that point.

There is no way to balance the injustice of infidelity.

Hell, even people who run out to have a revenge affair only hurt themselves, use other people and make things worse.

That's why I forgave my wife early on.

I had to do that for me, and not to wake up everyday trying to punish her in some way to balance scales that cannot be balanced.

Besides, any WS with any conscience at all carries the burden of their actions for life.

My wife still has not forgiven herself, but we're still working toward that.

If I am choosing to stay, then I am choosing to help the M be as happy as we can get it.

It's as if I'm resisting the improvement because embracing it somehow validates her choice.

As I say early and often, I'll hate the A and everything about it until my last minute.

I don't need to ever tell my wife that, she KNOWS how I feel about it.

In that sense, my wife will never feel validated about hurting me -- she hates that she hurt me as well.

I would also offer that I don't think you have one foot stuck in the past. I think you're still processing your pain -- which you should take as long to process as you need.

Feel the anger, feel the pain, process it all.

When you're ready, you can focus on the good work you're both doing to rebuild the M. At that point, your foot will move out of the past, right along with you.

Asterisk --

I had a big long post I started to type out, then I saw Unhinged post this:

Seeking help isn't a weakness; it's a strength.

Absolutely true.

Hello again,

So grateful for the continuing conversation here and the genuine assistance and real compassion evident in it.

I, like Hiking, wanted to sit some more with some of this before presuming an attempt to add anything to its evolution. There's a few things continuing to stir pretty deeply, but one thing I think I want to do immediately is kind of make you feel a little less alone in the out there "nekkid" in the crowd thing.

I sensed (as anyone could) how kind of wrenching it was for you to share your wife's sexual comparison thing she did while under the duress of the twisted-ness of her affair. Actually felt the gut punch...from something decades ago...that didn't happen to me...through the bandwidth of the internet. Empaths FTW! Now, I am super encouraged that the work of learning the source of that, and the reframing, and the help you've gotten from your wife has helped this...but still...damn. I feel you. And, maybe this is a bit ridiculous (when I get in deep into the fencerows of affair shit in my head...I start to wonder), but I just want to share this with you...

My wife apologized to her AP for *attempting* to have sex with me the ONE time we *tried* during her 6 month PA.

For quick context, prior to her A, we enjoyed an extremely active, joyful, enthusiastic, robust, playful, explorative, frequent and adventurous sex life. If I may, never a hint of any performance issues, no lapses in frequency. It was an exceptional sexual relationship. Right up until her what I thought was *only* a kinda random mid-life deep depression stemming from an alcohol fueled abusive chilhdood. She cut us off. Entirely and instantly...6 months. Somewhere towards the end of that, when I FINALLY (naive, childlike, pure-trusting idiot here) started to suspect something more sinister, she "allowed" an "attempt" simply to try to keep throwing me off any gathering suspicions. However...she was literally nothing of the actual woman I had played with, discovered with, celebrated with, made love with, and went at it like rabbits since we were 19 with. She was cold. Harsh. Critical. Demanding. And well...I was a no go. Could not make it happen under those circumstances. She was angry. It was the one and only time during the entirety of her affair that we attempted intimacy. It was just another layer of things that I was, at the time, chalking up to this suddenly unearthed mid-life trauma monster from her childhood.

After full disclosure in 2021 is when I discovered that she had spoken to her AP about this...and...one, she apologized to him for attempting to be sexual with...her damn husband. And two...she told him I couldn't get it up.

So there.

You are no longer out there alone flopping in the wind running through that crowd. I'm out there too...all bare ass and hunting the shadows with you.

And I guess, to bring this around to some of my original messaging in this thread...I am not sure there is enough therapy, forgiveness, self talk, reframing, aiming, choosing, focusing, healing, reconciling, hysterical bonding (98 days straight following 2021 disclosure), or maybe even TIME...for this to scrub for me.

I have about 3 or 4 affair-related things (this story is one of them) that I consider to have "hit me in my DNA". And I think, when some things hit THAT deep, the wounds are just ...idk...different. And when I speak of "limited" healing, I am simply accounting for this. And, I know it's counterintuitive. God, do I know it. Like I am actually advocating somehow to aim low, actively hold on to the past, keep pressing the scars and freshen the wounds, settle. No. Just no.

All I can share is my own journey, and in my own journey, the most seemingly upside down liberating notion I have embraced is the notion that...

"Look WH, you have worked your ass flat on these things. You have forgiven, let go, you have chosen love and redemption. You have shared the depths of your deepest pains, abandonment issues, have done and keep doing all the associated work interiorly in these places. This might be as good as it gets in this area(s) for you."

This was, odd as it may seem, a tremendous light for me. Now, for some, a statement like this might be a freaking gauntlet across the face. Thrown down. A challenge of NO! I WILL NOT ACCEPT THAT THIS IS IT. Not for me. And, if I may, I am not one to shrink from great challenge (I presided over my own mother's funeral at the age of 27, have stood with families over the bed of a beautiful 7 year old boy as they took him off of life support...I could go on...). But I do know that a shit-ton of dissonance quieted for me with the embracing of this as a possibility. Suddenly so much background (and much foreground too) overdrive, non-stop processing about what I might be doing "wrong" in my recovery efforts, what I was missing, misunderstanding, or misappropriating, or how I might be, somehow, unwittingly choosing and self-enabling my own lasting pain(s) and broken-nesses and limiting my own healing...all of that sorta vanished. Like a good Dr. or physical therapist telling it to me "straight"...like okay...I now know what my (less than fully whole) reality is. So now...

For the love of all things, I can focus on living my absolute best life WITH these "damages". Not in denial, or in some kind of recovery war with them...but with them. I fucking embraced it.

It was freeing...for me.

...and it totally might not be for you, Asterisk. Maybe there are still major strides left for you resulting in significantly greater degrees of "wholeness" and pain relief as they relate to your ongoing recovery from infidelity. Actually, if I had to bet, I would bet there are.

But, I do think and have to absolutely say that...

I think it is just as much of a possibility that...you are not as broken as you think you are. That some of this radioactive shrapnel hit you in your DNA...and, at least SOME of how you feel right now is totally on par with that. And may remain that way to a degree(s) as you keep moving forward. And, oddly, maybe that possibility will carry at least a touch of upside down, counterintuitive light and freedom for you.

Either way, you now know there's another nekkid dude running around out there with you now (for better or worse ) You are not alone.

Best to all,

WH

ETA...despite endless proofreads...I keep finding typos 😑. Also changed two words to more accurately reflect one thought/statement.

[This message edited by Wounded Healer at 3:16 AM, Wednesday, November 19th]

Bos

It's as if I'm resisting the improvement because embracing it somehow validates her choice.

I see that here way too often. People become their own worst enemy, throwing up their own roadblocks to happiness. Slaves to their narrative, to the story they are telling. They will literally sacrifice their happiness now in order to preserve an unhappy story about the past.

WH

"limited" healing

I’ll ask my question again from the previous page, but slightly different.

What would full healing look like?

It obviously wouldn’t be a complete reversal to where things were before the affair, because you’ve seen behind the curtain and now know things that were pretty much unknowable before (but are true). It would be a new state to be in.

What would that look like?

Wounded healer that was a beautiful post. And this is very true, what we resist persists. We can lean into joy again, and I actually read an article that talked about how healing is not the absence of pain or sorrow but the process of letting ourselves feel other things again. Very powerful. I think this will help a lot of people.

And for asterisk, it may be a way of surrendering that grappling. I was trying to find ways that his current thoughts might be holding him back, but you have offered it’s about a new way of thinking and that resonates with me deeply. I think I can see the same in my arc.

Unhinged,

:I knew I needed help back in the day. Before d-day, I'd have never joined a support group or read self-help books. Pfft! I'm strong enough, smart enough, and blah, blah, blah...

At the time of my D-day, there was no such thing as internet support groups. Infidelity self-help books were rare and the one I did read stated that, unlike men, the reason that women have affairs was that they wanted out of their marriage. For a friggen self-help book that statement wasn’t at all helpful. It was self-damaging! Though I flat out rejected that idea, the possible truth of those words haunted me for many years.

What may be difficult to understand is that I believed I could only trust one source, my faith, all secular assistance was to be avoided and seen as devious. If a person who has never belonged to a cult like belief system, it is very difficult to understand the behaviors of those who have.

After D-day which was not the cause of my leaving my chosen belief system, though it did assist, I found I could trust no one, not even my wife and especially any institutions! I came to the conclusion that the only person I could turn to was me. Now, I admit I was wrong in this realization but at the time I could not see it. Myself and I was all I had to lean on, and I was a wreck, anything but a solid rock of great insight. Plus, as you are aware, I had a more important issue, that arose at the same time, to resolve that sucked up all my wife’s and my emotional and financial energies for the next 5 to 10 years. By that time, I thought the affair issues were resolved. So yes, as you stated: "Live and learn…"

Asterisk

Hikingout,

There is an inherent shame a lot of bs’s feel when they take back someone who cheated. It’s common to say "I don’t want a divorce" "I want my kids to grow up with both parents" or whatever logical thing that makes sense to take them back, but those reasons sort of come with the idea that you have to self abandon your need (for loyalty, be purely loved, etc) in order to make the picture whole. That sends shaming signals because it sort of saying to that you have to settle. When we develop a pattern of that it negates the idea we love ourselves because we keep negotiating our worth with what we will accept in its place.===
I wish we could set by a warm fireplace, cup of coffee or tea in hand and discuss this further. I can sense the wisdom but an not able to understand it. The "self-abandonment" and the need "to settle" idea has me intrigued. I don’t like it, but that is not a legitimate reason to not examine it.
===You hold part of yourself separate.

True, how can one not?

Meaning they have come to terms with they have their own back and if something comes down the road in the marriage they do not like they have developed enough self confidence they know they will be okay without that spouse. It allows them to shed the cognitive dissonance by fully choosing what they want rather than being forced by circumstance or fear. They are fully owning what they want without shame or self abandonment.

Okay, now this has grabbed my attention. I have never, from the day we were married, seen myself as an individual. I, at the time, believed that we both gave up or individual selves when we blew out our individual candles that had seconds before lit a singular candle representing our union. I know now that this is hogwash but, you may have a point, that even though I’ve intellectually dismissed this idea, I have been emotionally attached to it, and still am. I need to give close attention to that cognitive dissonance!

Saying that you are unsafe to your wife is a false narrative. You may have simply been afraid to give her your heart back. So instead look at that with compassion and sit with questions more about what you want and why moving forward.

"False narrative." Is it really? I’m not so sure. As to figuring out "what I want and why moving forward", help me separated the difference of what I am about to write. My wife decided what she wanted, another man, and moved forward with it. To allow herself to do this she had to have begun to see herself as "an individual" with her individual wants. She must have begun to see us as not in a sacred union anymore. Right? So, it feels like you are asking me to do the same. Are you? I’m not challenging the possible truth here I simply do not understand how that works and am seeking enlightenment for, admittedly, what I’ve been doing hasn’t worked out as well as I had predicted.

And does she feel unsafe in your marriage?

Not unsafe as if I may do the same or that I might physically injure her. I’m not prone to anger or violence. She also knows that I go through great lengths to not injure her emotionally as well. I know she did feel "unsafe" for many years in that I might abandon her. I do not believe that she worries about this anymore but then again, if she did, she would not share that information with me. Which has been a source of great difficulty for me that I had to "learn to accept".

And when you want to go down that rabbit hole you state that again and change the channel in your head.

Bam! That is one of the most valuable gifts that all of you have given me thus far. It has been said to me in different ways with different methods and I have latched to it with all hands and feet. And, for any doubters, which I am known for, this advice has worked wonders for me.

Peace be with you.

And with you.

Asterisk

Bos491233,

All of this insight is so well thought out and on point with what I'm going through as well. I currently struggle with this notion of us being in an improved marriage but the method with which we got here had to be through something so hurtful and tortuous.

Yep, infidelity is not a wise way to go about improving one’s marriage. But one can take advantage of a tortuous action, lean from it, and improve oneself and one’s marriage, despite the hurtfulness of a spouses terrible decision to cheat.

It's as if I'm resisting the improvement because embracing it somehow validates her choice.

Though I fully understand the feeling of "somehow validating her choice" I know I’ve struggled with this at times. But, I believe it is a false conclusion, that needs to be erased off the chalkboard, for it is nothing but clutter.

I feel like I need to make sure she's absorbing an appropriate amount of the "shrapnel"

I have mentioned this fear as well. The fear that I might be subconsciously wanting my wife to "feel" the feelings she forced me to endure. Bottom line is, I know in my wife’s case, she feels the pain of her decisions that probably out weights any pain I have shouldered. In an odd way, if I were to try to make her feel the pain as I do, then she might be able to justify the pain she placed on me. People are odd ducks!

Remaining stoic has helped in my journey

I read other references to "stoicism" and googled it to try to understand it. Honestly, I don’t think I want to view life through the stoic’s lens. But maybe that is my problem and that I should. But, until then, I will resist it. That is not a statement of what I think others perspectives and methods should or shouldn’t be.

Asterisk

P.S. Bos, Oldwounds in the next reply really nails it with the:

There is no way to balance the injustice of infidelity.

I need to hang that sign on the four walls of my scattered brain.

Oldwounds,

My goodness your comment to Bos’s reply was powerful. And it applies to me as well. So thank you for sharing.

I agree, Unhinged’s reply post hit deep and has given me much to consider.

That said: I would have liked to have read what you were thinking for I have learned to value the repetitive wisdom that so many of you all have so graciously supplied me with.

Asterisk