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Forged1 posted 7/22/2017 19:36 PM

At one point, oddly, she asked me to hit her as punishment.

This woman is out to get you locked up and out of the picture. She will take the first opportunity she gets. That was your warning shot.

Forget the polygraph. Pull a 180 immediately. Lawyer up and lawyer up now.

W can see that my mood changes when I look at my phone and has suggested that I delete the pics of the texts I found initially.

Get those screenshots somewhere safe. Get copies onto a thumbdrive and put it somewhere she can't get at it. If you have an office outside the home, put it there. Ideally you should have second drive with those screenshots ready to give to yiur attorney.

Two major flags right here - she wanted you to hit her and she wanted you to get rid of the evidence.

If you get rid of the evidence, you're going to see her maneuver you into a domestic assault charge really, really quickly.

[This message edited by Forged1 at 7:42 PM, July 22nd (Saturday)]

Pineapple posted 7/24/2017 23:23 PM

Family vacation ended when we got back home yesterday morning. My plans to get things rolling with the game plan were derailed by undoubtedly one of the greatest hoover efforts in human history. I won't go into detail other than to say I experienced two first in my sex life in one day, and that was the least of it.

So today I accomplished little towards my plan. I at least did a short workout before the morning hoover and leaving to work for the day. W had the day off for various appointments. W did spend a good portion of her day putting together a timeline of sorts for me outlining all matters with OM. Everything I learned tonight she provided without any ability for me to have found this out on my own. She wasn't strong on dates but did provide some pretty good details. She maintains no PA. She says this was a full confession, about 10 pages written.

Here are the highlights. There were attempts to line up rendezvous at a separate out of town location in the past couple months besides the one that I saw originally. I never found those texts. W has been alone with OM inside his home, but supposedly only for 10-15 minutes before they went out drinking. There was a lot of other detail. A lot. Info on what limited physical contact had happened, hugs, OM touched her leg a couple occasions. What they did on the two work trips they went on together. OM has told her that she would have been his ideal woman if he had met her when he was single. W says that OM was not attractive to her at first but is more attractive to her now. Apparently he has lost weight over time and shown her his stomach. I save the best for last. W says OM told her details of his love life with OBS. I don't think We realized as she told me that the info she provided contradicted her multiple accounts in a supposedly no more lies era that she didn't know if OM was capable of sex due to war injuries.

So there it is. Complete honesty, but an ever changing and worsening story. No more lies but shifting truth. PA, EA. Really no difference. If it wasn't a PA it would have been and very soon. She doesn't see it.

I am numb. This feels like D-day all over, but instead of being sad I am just numb. Tomorrow I will find myself a counselor/therapist. I really just need to sit down and talk with someone now. I don't care what W does right now. I need to take care of myself and get help working through this.

Larryh1996 posted 7/25/2017 00:10 AM

Keep at it. Don't be surprised if more slipped information or contradictions appear later. First she did not find him attractive, then she found him more attractive. Then revealing more physical contact.

As for her volunteering to offer this information that you would have never found out yourself, she's throwing you a bone. Probably trying to minimize her story but make it realistic at the same time. You probably wouldn't believe her if the out of town rendezvous thing was a 'one time' only so she offers I information that there were plans for more. All the while maintaining nothing happened. All to make the story more realistic without reavealing too much and increase the chances of you being accepting of it.

pleasedontbetrue posted 7/25/2017 05:26 AM


Stevesn posted 7/25/2017 05:52 AM

So now tell her you'll be scheduling the Poly to confirm what she has told you. Dont tell her when it's scheduled for and try to let her know only a few minutes before. The parking lot confession is more important than the results.

Did you try my list of specific physical questions a few pages back? You need to say the words to her to make it work. Make her think about potential specific actions that could have been physical.

Impress upon her that it will only be possible to heal if she has told you the truth. Have you decided if you could still try R even if there was PA? You need to decide that either way. If so then you can convey to her again that you can still work on the marriage if there was PA but not if there was more TT.

Did you read her the full Joseph's Letter? It may have impact with her.

Good to get into IC. Is she going to get into IC too? Make sure they are therapists that specialize in infidelity.

Also now is time to start talking to OBS so you can compare notes. Maybe she knows. Maybe she is clueless. Make sure she has your number so she can call you if she learns more. Do not tell WW you are going to contact her.

I am concerned about the 2 phones. Why don't you have open access to both? I would walk up to her and say unlock and give me both your phones right now. If she has agreed to working on R and has said she is NC then she should be willing to do this any time you need it. She should have no communication method that you don't have instant access to.

Which reminds me, is she officially NC? Has she written an NC letter and shared it with you before sending? I prefer printing and mailing it to his him so there is no email back and forth.

Besides the timeline and NC letter she should write you a letter of apology that includes how she thinks she made you feel and what she is willing to do to save this marriage and become a safe partner for you. In fact I'm going to list all the things she should be doing if she wants to R with you. Please read each one and then create a list for yourself to share with her.

Stay strong.

Examples of what to put in a plan to becoming safe and working toward R.
1) a letter of NC to the OM that you see and approve and watch her send.

2) real NC. Meaning if she works with him she quits her job so she can never see him or run into him again. Real ghosting. Blocking him from everything. If He tries to contact her she does not respond and she tells you. If he persists your lawyer can send him a cease and desist.

3) she writes out a full timeline of the A. Full details. And you review it with her.

4) she writes you a letter of apology telling you why she thinks she did what she did and what it would mean to her to have you stay and work on the marriage.

It should include:

- how sorry she is for what she has done - why she thinks it happened - how she would have felt if you had been the one to do this - what she is willing to do to ensure this never happens again - how she knows what she did will change your relationship forever - how she knows that she has put you in a terrible position of now having to monitor her for the rest of your lives. -why she decided to stay with you instead of leaving you for the other man?

5) she agree to a polygraph. You may or may not have her do it, but don't tell her that. If she really wants R she will agree

6) you both do IC. Her to figure out why she was willing to go beyond her vows. You so you can work thru the pain. You should do this whether you head for D or R.

7) at a later point you might start MC to work on what was missing from the M. But only after you both work on yourselves first.

8) Expose. The affair needs to be exposed to both your families and close friends. They need to be able to help you make it thru this R. Doing it alone with just the both of u and no one else knowing is doomed for failure. If she is truly remorseful you will both go to them together and she will admit what's she has done and what she is doing to make herself a safe partner for you. If she is not willing to do this, then probably just end it here and move forward with D.

9) contact the OBS. You do it. She should help you. If she is truly remorseful she will want to do that for you. You should want to do it because it's the right thing to do for the OBS. If she won't tell her then tell her I can only assume you are protecting him because you are still in the A with him and you'll be getting the D papers this week.

10) look at implementing a postnup. Others here can give you more details on how this works.

11) she provides open access to all her technology from now on. On demand. No time to delete stuff. If not then she's obviously more interested in having secrets than your M.

12) No more going out without disclosing where she is. If "going out with the girls" has been an excuse to meet with AP in the past, then that ends

13) no more meeting alone with a man. No lunches, dinners, drinks whatever. If she has to do so for business it only happens at places of business and not behind closed doors. She informs you of when this is necessary and with whom and for how long. Social Happy Hours (outside of actual work functions) are to be attended together or not attended at all.

14) Does all required reading. "Not just friends" and "how to help your spouse heal..." etc.

15) find a friend or family member for you to confide in. You shouldn't be going thru this alone.

16) STD testing for u both. Visual proof of the results is required.

17) no new affairs. If so D papers will be served. No lies about relationships with others any more. If so we are done.

18) Any questions about the affair are to be answered honestly for the rest of our life. Never be done answering questions about it.

19) No conversations about our marriage or any other marriage with another man/woman unless your spouse is ok to talk to someone specific about it.

20) No one comes in to our home without both us knowing.

21) Communication- No secrets, no matter how hard it will be to hear. Discuss all attractions. Discuss all third party attention. Discuss all feelings good and bad. Be honest with yourself and aware of your feelings, then communicate that to your spouse.

22) We don't do anything in absence of one another that we wouldn't do in the others presence.

Again friend, you can only decide how to proceed out of infidelity. But if you use the power of the brain trust here you will see that the most successful BS's find happiness sooner by acting from a stance of strength not weakness as you have been doing.

It may be thru R (which will take years of hard work but may be worth it to you) or D, but in the end you will be happier and feel better about standing up for yourself and your family.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 5:53 AM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

Ginny posted 7/25/2017 06:05 AM

Two previously "off the table" sex acts in ONE day? Come on. She is going ALL out to deceive you, giving you just enough to keep you spinning your wheels in indecision.

I'm sorry for you, sorry you are being treated this way and sorry you are falling for her tactics. We all know how much you WANT to believe her.

Best of luck to you as you continue to try to get out of infidelity.

Sharkman posted 7/25/2017 06:05 AM

That wasn't a timeline. That was an exercise in minimalization and trickle truth.

Assume she is telling the truth, why in the world would two people spend so much sexual energy on each other, try really hard to get away together and NOT have sex?

Besides, when it comes down to it....she had an affair. Still needs to be fixed or terminated in the same exact manner, whether his penis was in her or not.

[This message edited by Sharkman at 8:29 AM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

CopiousTears posted 7/25/2017 07:28 AM

Yep, I agree with Ginny. It's what I call the Pu$$y Coma. It's to lull you into a false sense of security. You've been having the best sex of your life - by design. She's using what she's got to get what she wants. Which is for you to STFU and rug sweep, already! Stop falling for it. On a different level, I know women who weaponnize the pu$$y when they've overspent on shopping trips. Their first response at seeing the bill is, "Guess I'll have to put him in a pu$$y coma tonight so I can keep these items".

I also agree with Sharkman.

LifeisCrazy posted 7/25/2017 07:43 AM

Just a word of warning: sometimes we get so engaged in trying to figure out all the little tidbits and all the information gathering that it becomes difficult to look at our situations objectively. Of course, being so emotionally screwed up at the moment doesn't help either.

So stop for a second and think about what's been going on. Try to disengage yourself and look at the situation objectively. If necessary, read through your thread from the beginning as if you were one of us. What do you see?

If YOU were in the OM's shoes... would there be no sex? You have the opportunity with someone who you clearly like and find attractive. There's a relationship built. You're in your home alone... no sex? Just a little touching? Seriously? These are two adults who have already crossed a VERY big line. As you described him... a military "alpha" male kinda guy. And he's not having sex? C'mon.

I say that NOT to rub anything in. Lord knows, I've faced that same reality. But the TRUTH here is absolutely obvious to everyone reading here - your wife is a Class A liar. She has zero problem (look back at your initial post about confronting her) looking you right in the eyes and lying to you. In truth, it appears from an objective point of view that she has a very significant boundary issue as well. This friendship crossed a line a LONG time ago.

My friend, you can't trust anything she says because she is a liar. I know - hard to hear about someone you love. But ram it into your brain and your outcome may be different.

Here's what you want - truth. So just assume that you know the truth, because you DO. If you want to do a polygraph... great. There's no question at all that she's going to fail or that she will suddenly start confessing as you pull up to the place. But really, it's not necessary. What you REALLY want is for her to confess because that shows remorse. Pulling the information out of her is fine if that's all you're looking to achieve. But reconciliation requires your wife to really see that she's not protecting you... her lying is actually contributing to the downfall of the marriage. THAT is what she needs to understand.

So your goal is simply - it is to move OUT of infidelity, with or without her. Simply look her in the eyes and tell her that you know. That's all. When she's ready to tell you the TRUTH then you'll consider working on the marriage. But until then you are moving yourself out of infidelity. And then do it. Disengage. File for divorce (that doesn't mean that you need to actually get divorced... it takes a while for it to happen) but let her begin to see what life will look like without you. See an attorney and understand your rights as it pertains to your assets and your family. Move her out of the marital bed. Expose the affair to the OBS and to her parents.

She will come to realize that if she wants to save the marriage (or not - in which case, who cares? You're already taking the appropriate steps) she will need to change her tune. In order for her to save the marriage she's going to need to come clean... about a lot of things. THAT is where reconciliation begins. That is the first step.

I know that we talk about all these ways to spy on our wives. But in many cases, like yours, it's really not necessary. You know you're wife was having an affair, and you know it was physical. You know you need to call the OBS. Other than that it's really just a matter of whether or not your wife can be honest and can start the process of reconciliation. She's not there yet.

So move yourself out of infidelity. Period.

Sharkman posted 7/25/2017 08:31 AM

SO if this is 100% truthful being her to the damn polygraph test already. And for your sake stay in touch with her boyfriend's wife. If you guys were comparing timelines this morning you'd be in a different position of confidence.

Ginny posted 7/25/2017 08:33 AM

Listen, Pineapple. I was pathetic when I tried to get the whole truth out of my fwh - Snot nosed, crying, on my knees, mascara running, BEGGING for the truth. I smashed plates, threatened to expose him and embarrassingly threatened a lot of crazy stuff. I wasn't myself. I am a very passive, happy person that had my life turned upside down. I felt I HAD to have all of the details. I needed to know the TRUTH of my life and what had happened, but at the same time, was desperately afraid of losing my marriage.

None of US want YOU to have to go through the soul crushing things we stooped to when dealing with the carnage left when the Mack truck of infidelity came crashing through our lives. We are trying to give you the "best practices" that have been refined by the people on this forum to GET OUT of the carnage you have found yourself in. What do you have to lose by following the ideas given?

Once again, Stevesn has given you a roadmap to start finding your way out. Good luck.

Jduff posted 7/25/2017 08:59 AM

I won't go into detail other than to say I experienced two first in my sex life in one day, and that was the least of it.

Don't need details but I have a question. Were these two "firsts" done with awkwardness often experienced with a first time, or done as if with practiced experience?

AffairofPast posted 7/25/2017 09:49 AM

What jduff said. This is twice in this thread she's done "new sexual acts" with you. If this doesn't scream out red flag, then what does?

For R to be successful, you have to know the truth. Polygraph sooner than later. You will regret years later when you find out what she did.

Michigan posted 7/25/2017 10:57 AM

I save the best for last. W says OM told her details of his love life with OBS. I don't think We realized as she told me that the info she provided contradicted her multiple accounts in a supposedly no more lies era that she didn't know if OM was capable of sex due to war injuries.


When you make up a lie itís always smart to use as much of the truth as you possibility can. Letís say they you donít want to go to a party and need to make up an excuse. Use as many real facts as you can. Only deviate from the truth to get to the end point where you canít go to the party.

I think that your wife is doing this. Instead of being busy the night of the party in my example they never had sex. She spilling her guts about everything else and itís probably true.

I bet the talk about the OMís sex life with his wife is true. She got into the mode of telling the truth and slipped up. She forgot what she previously told you.

Sanibelredfish posted 7/25/2017 11:08 AM

Hmm, with regard to her newfound sexual adventurousness, I think she's trying to even up her sexual ledger between you and OM in the event that she eventually gets busted. That way there won't be anything she did just with him (as if that would make it somehow OK ). IMO this sex should make you more suspicious than ever and motivated to poly.

[This message edited by Sanibelredfish at 11:11 AM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

twisted posted 7/25/2017 11:10 AM

Few days ago I offered one time only shot to forgive her if she'd fully confess to everything. Said I would not forgive later if I learned more.

Granted this was a ploy that she didn't fall for, but are there any consequences for her previous lies? So now she willing to tell another version of the "truth"?

W has been alone with OM inside his home, but supposedly only for 10-15 minutes before they went out drinking.

Really? This was right before his big "Going Away" party? The one they were late to?

There were attempts to line up rendezvous at a separate out of town location in the past couple months besides the one that I saw originally.
But nothing happened when they were alone at his house?

Do you have a total number of times they were alone together, either out of town or at his house, or at some other place?
10 pages of confessions....if you were to question her about those pages, change a few things up, mix up the details, would she be able to remember it all again, or would she get caught in her own lies?

Pineapple posted 7/25/2017 11:14 AM

New experiences seemed to be novel for both of us. Actually as I think about it, there were three, not two. Forgot about one.

I will reach out to OBS today when I can take a break for a bit.

Thank you for the lengthy list of steps to take, that is very helpful.

Pineapple posted 7/25/2017 11:23 AM

Alone time with OM at his home occurred last year apparently. That was the first thing I asked about this morning. W said she will try to get me a date. It is funny that every single suspicious event is accompanied by some mitigating explanation.

Other out of town destination is most of the way across the country. W has traveled there twice this year already.

Learned that OM's new office is only a few miles from W's work. I am 2 hours from there. She is now location sharing with me. I told her to start eating at the cafeteria within her work location.

learning9433 posted 7/25/2017 11:54 AM

Yes, please contact OBS...she has a right to know another woman was in her home...that is such a huge violation...alot more will come out when you talk to on it.

Sharkman posted 7/25/2017 12:46 PM

Pineapple, Rome wasn't built in a day. You are taking great productive steps and demanding the truth. You're doing a great job man.

I do think that you just need to get this poly scheduled. Whether you like it or not there are way too many unknowns surrounding this. The purpose of getting the timeline is to start understanding the truth, which is the first step in building back trust. You don't have that truth and I feel that in your gut you don't think that you have it either. If you want to reconile you're going to need to start somewhere, a poly is the next step (and obv not the only step)

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