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Sharkman posted 7/31/2017 01:46 AM

My recommendation is to use this time to evaluate your legal options. There is a nonzero chance that this could escalate quickly.

TimelessLoss posted 7/31/2017 08:45 AM

Pine, great steps on your self care and getting sleep.

Phone #2 is currently "missing."
It is only "missing" from you. This is the phone described as her second work phone. I said it before...this is her burner phone and I believe she still has it. From an evidentiary standpoint it may not matter. From a NC standpoint it matters because this is one of her back channels to communicate with him. A poly question: Since xx/xx/2017 have you talked to OM?

My opinion: She and/or the OM have had previous affairs. Not their first rodeo. She is getting coached by him, a BFF UGG (You Go Girl), the Internet Cheaters' Forums, or she has pulled this off before. She has been way too practiced from day one.

It is not to late to employ a Voice Activated Recorder.

Pineapple posted 7/31/2017 09:38 AM

You should have seen the sh*tfit W threw when I asked for the other phone. First time W's lost her cool since the sex smothering began. And yes, sharkman, W said she needs to be ready for all options yesterday. She can see I'm not buying the bs. So that is a good point, got to be ready for any eventuality. In fact, it seems like a very good possibility at this stage.

W was also unhappy yesterday about the secrets I'm keeping from her by discussing this with my sister. She says our relationship can't mend if I am keeping secrets. Face palm.

Sharkman posted 7/31/2017 09:48 AM

There will be more eloquent people than I to follow, but simply put she needs to produce that phone for you within the next 48 hours. Her anger honestly tells you everything that you need to know about that, so you are likely just performing an administrative function at this point.

Her anger towards you is also a sign that she is in no way remorseful. She should be HAPPY that you are seeking out counseling for what she did to you. That she is not speaks volumes. Again, as antiseptically as possible, there isn't anything that you can do about that. All you can do is move to protect yourself legally. Also, if she doesn't like you speaking to your sister in private, offer to do it in a public forum if that makes her feel better. It's not your job to hide her affair.

Or you can choose to sit around wishing things were different. That's not going to get you anywhere though.

Oh, one last suggestion. When you tell her that you require the phone in 48 hours don't even engage her. Just let her know that this is one of your conditions to remaining married. Because it is. There isn't any other way to communicate this other than maturely and matter-of-factly.

MickeyBill2016 posted 7/31/2017 11:22 AM

Buckle up. Once she realizes her new found sexy skills didn't work she will start fighting back and blameshifting.

Sad to hear this, but it doesn't look good. You do have an advantage that by posting here you will get advice from people who have been thru similar trial and tribulations, you will know what to expect.

Have you seen a lawyer yet?

Download the divorce forms from your county website. You need to be prepared.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 11:25 AM, July 31st (Monday)]

Pineapple posted 7/31/2017 11:55 AM

Phone #2 has been located this morning and I should see it tonight. W already told me that she doesn't use it for anything personal and deletes any contact info from it after using it because others occasionally borrow it from her. So there may not be much to see there, but I will find out tonight.

Retried retrieving old messages yesterday from primary phone, didn't get anything new. Bothers me that I haven't seen texts about the other out-of-town location which W says she texted with OM about. I really wanted to see the back and forth and also confirm the timing relative to W's travel to this location twice already this year. She is fuzzy on the timing, thinks it was after her second trip.

Most of the time W does truly seem very sincere, and is apologetic about everything. She is taking the homework from counseling seriously and working through books on boundaries and another the counselor suggested for her on relationships.

If she passes a poly and I get no additional confession, I'm not sure I will ever be able to accept her account of things. I know reconciliation can take years. I don't know if I could reconcile if I still doubt the story and intentions.

Forged1 posted 7/31/2017 12:00 PM

As others have asked, have you been to see a lawyer yet?

Sharkman posted 7/31/2017 12:36 PM

I know reconciliation can take years. I don't know if I could reconcile if I still doubt the story and intentions.

Just know that you are doing the right steps now to put yourself in the position, somewhere down the line, to make this determination.

Honestly, emotional affairs are basically just as bad as physical affairs in the big scheme of things. Betrayal is betrayal. It's a monumental task recovering from this and you are very wise to not underestimate how much effort this would/will/could take.

You are still too emotional to be making this decision right now. All you can do is continue to seek legal guidance, therapy assistance, keep posting here and keep looking for the truth. Nothing else really matters now.

MickeyBill2016 posted 7/31/2017 12:43 PM

W already told me that she doesn't use it for anything personal and deletes any contact info from it after using it because others occasionally borrow it from her.

This is similar to her prepping you that polys are not reliable..planting some seed of doubt before the fact.

Was it your post that the WS said she deleted the msg and text because you wouldn't forgive her? Or maybe that someone else...

There is a 50:50 chance that there's nothing to reveal or she is taking today to delete 100s of messages. The phone may come back tonite wiped clean, and she will say the IT guy reset it for her... Who knows!? \_(ツ_/

As an outsider I look at your posts and see there are a lot of questions but they don't go far, logic says that there was an affair. If a friend of yours came to you with this story about his wife, what would you tell him...

IMO she is either clueless and not guilty beyond an EA or is getting help to cover up a EA/PA. Maybe from other websites or her ex miltary BF or a cheating GF.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 2:13 PM, July 31st (Monday)]

Stevesn posted 7/31/2017 13:04 PM

So does she claim to be NC with this guy? She is working only 2 miles from him.

Can she possibly look at getting a job nearer to you? Which job is closer to your home?

Jobs cannot be more important than the marriage otherwise R will be a failure.

Drumstick posted 7/31/2017 13:21 PM

When you get that second phone... review the last time the OS was updated, or a factory reset was undertaken. If either of these occurred since DDAY... something stinks!

twisted posted 7/31/2017 14:10 PM

2nd phone was a work phone as I recall. Have you checked the provider on that to confirm it is indeed a work phone, not a burner phone?

Settings/ mobil networks/access point names

Pineapple posted 7/31/2017 15:30 PM

I will check the carrier and last update info on the phone. I would guess that data would probably be wiped if a factory reset were performed. If I can recover no deleted contact, text and call history then I will be very suspicious. If I see deleted content going back a ways in time and pre-dating DDay then I would doubt a reset or wipe had been performed. I honestly think there won't be much on this phone, but I will find out tonight.

I guess I could try some other software on W's primary phone. Further recovery just doesn't seem that likely.

We've talked a little about a job change. Lots of considerations with that, but it definitely is something worthy of exploring. Better than being closer to home would be less travel. W is currently looking at three overseas trips in the next several months along with some domestic travel. We're in communication over lunch most days now.

ramius posted 7/31/2017 15:51 PM

Lawyer yet?

Stevesn posted 7/31/2017 15:55 PM

Can she be trusted to travel?

So what is her status with the OM? Does she claim to be NC? Was an NC letter sent?

I'm a little confused whether or not she is asking you for R.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 4:51 PM, July 31st (Monday)]

Hurtgmw posted 7/31/2017 20:12 PM

If it is a IPHONE. go on to battery settings. And you will see what apps have been used on the phone.

This is how I found out he had been cheating. The were "deleted" apps in the list. Which were Skype and kik 😡💔

Western posted 7/31/2017 20:22 PM

I would listen carefully to Sharkman. His advice is always spot on.

be vigilant, Pineapple and expect the worst just in case that happen to be the situation.

Keep imposing your will because you are doing it and she's choking under pressure and it's nice to see you taking control under a bad situation. You deserve better than this

TimelessLoss posted 7/31/2017 20:53 PM

You should have seen the sh*tfit W threw when I asked for the other phone. First time W's lost her cool since the sex smothering began.
Actually good news. You've thrown her off her game. She thought she had you in a Pu$$y Coma (full credit to CopiousTears for that).

The phone was "found" after she had time to develop her story. Shit, all the way down to "some one else used it and did that" if you find anything.

You may now see one or both of the following:

1. She'll play the trust card again ("we'll never get past this because you will never trust me")
2. She'll continue w/weaponized sex...except now it will be none ("you don't trust me, I've lost my libido") or, The Ice Cream Parlor will only serve Vanilla instead of the Exotic Flavors that were previously on the menu.

goalong posted 8/1/2017 05:24 AM

Looks like she never intended this to be found and interfere with the marriage which she want/value. So you have that advantage to press-on on whatever you need to get the closure. Her getting angry (as others say) shows she is not emotional or remorseful about her betrayal. So as many cheaters do she used the comfort and stability the marriage provide to enjoy the cheating. Now she risk losing both as she cannot any longer enjoy the cheating. Since OBS is ignoring her husband (POSOM) infidelity would it be worthwhile to confront him in a suitable way and get all the details. That way you can cross check WW statements as well as you can get to know whether they are still in contact if she become aware of your contacting the POSOM (in entertaining POSOM on WW request you played beta. Now ask the POSOM about this and act alpha on him).
About the lawyer normally showing BS is going to take drastic actions hugely facilitate WS conformity (like not going in to fit of rage) . Acting like ending it to save it (the save if BS wants it)

[This message edited by goalong at 6:02 AM, August 1st (Tuesday)]

Sharkman posted 8/1/2017 05:56 AM

Also as you entering a sleuthing period:

1. She HAS warned her boyfriend you're into another phone. You need to find out how.

2. Do not give the 2nd phone back if you don't find anything. If you find something tell her you're dropping it off at a full forensic recovery firm. It may produce a parking lot confession.

3. If you don't find anything please post a list of all installed and deleted app here.

4. Also check the 'last backup' dates. If the phone is being backed up there may be better info on backups

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