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Jman posted 8/11/2017 18:49 PM

Pine, After reading your thread I would be absolutely floored if this wasn't a PA. Several years of meet ups, where drinking was involved, asking if he can meet her out of town, going to concerts together.....they sound more like a couple in a relationship than coworkers. A guy does not spend that much time with another woman unless he is getting what he wants, which is sex He is obviously not gay so I find it hard to believe that he was that starved for female companionship when he is married. I'm sorry but this just flies in the face of common sense. I really hope I'm wrong but I seriously doubt it.

Forged1 posted 8/11/2017 19:14 PM

Pineapple, these quotes are from one of your a few pages back:

At one point, oddly, she asked me to hit her as punishment.

Remember - she wanted you to do her violence as "punishment". Punishment for what if this is all on the up-and-up?

And remember, by the time you got to OBS, OM had already begun his damage limitation exercise. The plan was to have you come across as the controlling and physically abusive spouse.

W can see that my mood changes when I look at my phone and has suggested that I delete the pics of the texts I found initially.

Again, she wanted you to erase evidence - TRUTH - that was already in your possession. It was strongly suggested to you that you make copies of same and put them somewhere safe, ideally with your attorney. Did you do this?

And then we have all the previously off the menu sex acts to which you've been "treated" since this all came to light. Wouldn't surprise me if this somehow doesn't get twisted around into how you're abusing and degrading her with outrageous sexual demands as punishment and basically a cruel person.

Pineapple, your WW is feeding you shovelfuls of shit, and deep, deep down inside you know it.

Bigger posted 8/11/2017 19:45 PM

Maybe your wife is that unicorn that we have heard about but have yet to see. Quite apt too… it’s not horses or even zebra’s; those beating hooves are the unicorn coming around that bend!

But I am a bit concerned…
Does she see what she has done as wrong?
Does she use the word “affair” to describe their relationship?
If this was all innocent then why does she have a need to think coworkers didn’t know of their “innocent, platonic friendship”?

I strongly suggest two steps NOW:
Get Not Just Friends NOW. It’s commonly available and even in digital format. You BOTH read it and work the exercises.

Book that poly. Get it over with mid-week at the latest. What you don’t want is a walk-in, no preparation examination. You want the operator to talk to you to fully understand what you need to know. You want the operator to interview your wife and go over definitions. You try to limit your requirements to factual yes/no questions. For example:
“Have you had sex as we defined it previously in our preparation with another man since you married Mr. Pineapple”
Followed by:
“Have you had sex as we defined it previously in our preparation with Mr. OM”
Would be ideal questions because they are factual and based on tangible actions.

“do you love OM” would be a terrible question because love isn’t tangible.

What worries me is if she really sees this as a platonic friendship and nothing sexual took place. If she doesn’t realize that this is wrong. But hopefully Not Just Friends can help you both there.

Western posted 8/11/2017 21:16 PM

Pineapple, we can't help you if you don't help yourself. Your wife's situation is obvious. So what is going on is obvious. You continue to ignore it.

EXACTLY, what is keeping you from opening your mind on this ???

Do something for once !!!

Pineapple posted 8/11/2017 22:40 PM

Am downloading the Not Just Friends right now to kindle. I think that W and I had a misunderstanding at lunch. Spoke later and she realizes that what she was trying to say came out all wrong. Unfortunately there wasn't time to really talk more at that point. I am torn on if I have full disclosure or not from her. I felt like I was pretty close. I know it looks bad and I can see why so many here are feeling that she is still withholding information. One thing she said tonight is that she feels that a weight was lifted from her shoulders when she put together the tell-all 11-pager a couple weeks ago or whenever it was. I don't think she'd feel that way if she was sitting on some big secrets still. She also does appear to show some very sincere and true remorse for the hurt that she has caused. I will work on the poly this weekend and have it scheduled for next week sometime hopefully. If we can get past that, then I think we can start mending. Night all.

anoldlion posted 8/12/2017 03:33 AM

Maybe it's my hope that people who love each other find a way to become close again. From all your post, about your wife, I think she is telling you the truth. I believe this because of the way you write it and what she says. There are some things that your wife does needs to understand. She did have an EA. She doesn't see that. She sees that what was between her and the other man as a platonic friendship, and it would have been platonic if not for a two things. Two things that changed her platonic relationship to an EA were:
(1) She took time and being with with her family, away from her family to be with him.
(2) She lied to you about seeing him and spending time with him because she knew you would not approve.
This is what made it an EA. I have found that men who discover their wife doing inappropriate things with another man always believes there is more for their wife to tell. She has to be hiding something. This is not necessarily true. Maybe there is but also maybe there isn't. You know your wife better than anyone on here. What you feel and decide is what is important. As far as a polygraph, I have my doubts about them. During my military career and then a second career dealing with criminals, I have seen a polygraph beaten more than once. Even those that turn out inconclusive, the first thing that people think is "they're guilty". This is not necessarily truth either. What it's all going to boil down to is, do you trust your wife enough to believe what she says. And yes, I've also seen my share of people that could look you dead in the face and tell you the biggest lie possible and make you believe it. The lies your wife told you got by because you won't paying that much attention and you didn't think she would lie to you about things like "happy hour" and "going to a concert with a friend". I do have to say the most damning evidence was an email looking to meet up with another man while on an overnight, in another city, away from home. That does need to be fully explained. This time around you pay attention. You know her better than anyone else in the world. I really hope you and her can fix this. I do wish you well.

[This message edited by anoldlion at 3:36 AM, August 12th (Saturday)]

william posted 8/12/2017 04:12 AM

you would be amazed at how many ws voluntarily come clean with a "confession". youd be shocked at how many write out or tell "all" . shocked and amazed that the confession is only partially true, that the tell all ... doesnt.

its very common. they feel guilty so they admit to something lesser. they are pushed into a corner and admit to what you can prove.

its crazy, its dysfunctional ... and it happens everyday.

my ww admitted to a long term ea. out of the blue. no prompting. i had no suspicions. a confession. why be less than honest. right?

that ea was a pa. she also had 2 ons. was also sexting over a dozen guys. i got the truth in doses over a long period of time. each was full and complete, according to her at the time. each time she claimed to feel better with the truth out.

your ww story doesnt add up. chances are you are getting a very sanitized version. ive NEVER heard of an ea not going pa if there wasnt some extenuating circumstance like 2000 miles between them ... and even then i often does.

they had motive. they had opportunity.

Sharkman posted 8/12/2017 04:37 AM

My feeling is that if pineapple thinks that he's getting all the story then he just may. There is nothing to do at this point other than making sure he's prepared emotionally in the event he hears otherwise and to not change the poly test no matter what.

Also be monitoring her electronics and spending. She could be researching how to beat them and if she does they may recommend some light pharmaceutical help.

This could be one of those rare cases where this was an affair without a consistent physical component. She was certainly getting the attention that she wanted out of this.

Stevesn posted 8/12/2017 07:00 AM

Pine. Maybe this waits until she takes the poly but she should be actively trying to find work near you and far from OM. Being minutes away from him is not part of being a safe partner to you.

Also don't tell her when the poly is scheduled. Preferably just drive her there and tell her it's time.

Bigger posted 8/12/2017 08:02 AM

I too think that just maybe Pineapple has that rare, diamond in a mountain of cow-crap case of no physical sex between WW and OM.
I seriously doubt it, but I can’t eliminate that chance.

That’s why the poly is more necessary now than ever before.

Pine – One thing you need to make very clear to your wife and you should repeat that several times leading to the poly: It’s not the possibility of there having been sex that would be a deal-breaker but rather that despite your offers and despite your deep need to know the truth she would be lying if she fails the poly. It would be that she STILL thinks a marriage can be built on deceit and secrets.

About detail. Right now, details aren’t important. The only thing you need to know NOW is whether they had sex or not. The extent, the places, the positions… not a key element right now. Keep that in mind when outlining what questions the operator asks. You get a defined number of questions and what you want to know will be dependent on the “did you have sex” issue. Ask the operator (w/o your WW knowledge) if you can switch out questions if you get a parking-lot confession.

For example: Let’s say you get 5 questions. The operator has assured you that Q1 and Q2 will clarify the sex issue. You might want to use Q3-5 to be clear as to the extent, if there is contact… It would be a waste of a question to ask if they had sex in your house as Q3 if Q1 and Q2 clearly indicated that they never had sex.
If – however – a parking-lot confession to one BJ is offered, then she will fail Q1 and Q2 but you wouldn’t be clear on IF that one BJ was all that took place.

I want you to prepare for two things Pineapple…
This can only end in one of two ways: Either she passes and if that takes place YOU have to move on from the sexual issues. YOU TOO need to believe the poly results.
Or she fails… No matter what you want you need to be ready to walk away from this marriage at that point…

The ONLY thing that could save your marriage if she fails the poly is if she makes an unconditional, all-inclusive, no-holds-barred confession in the hope that by doing so she’s allowed to follow you out of infidelity. But you don’t wait for it or offer her that path. She must do it on her own accord.

Finally, Pineapple:
Does she use the word affair to describe their relationship?
Does she see it as inappropriate?
Why did she see it as important that others at work didn’t know about their friendship?

TimelessLoss posted 8/12/2017 08:49 AM

Pine, there is a third possible outcome in a poly. An inconclusive result. Meaning the administrator is unable to make a determination. Prepare for that possibility.

I hope she passes. Because then you have basis for considering the possibility of her remaining with you. However, even if she passes I don't see indications from her that she is close to getting that there was betrayal, that there was infidelity. Without that realization there is no basis for her to change. Inside herself.

Bigger coined an important term a couple of days ago. On another thread I think. The term was "inactive infidelity". My take away on that term is that while an A may have ended, the parts of the betraying spouse that caused them to have an A are still in place. And if their adultery enabling makeup remains, they have also already acquired the logistical knowledge of how to conduct an A. Except next time make it more underground, with greater OpsSec.

My worst fear for you is that she passes the poly but doesn't accept that she cheated on you, your marriage, your family. Because then you have a W who is a skilled cheater. She is in "inactive infidelity". Inactive until the next time she needs the high of an A.

That sets the stage for you to be back here. If you catch her.

Pineapple posted 8/12/2017 18:18 PM

Alright, calls have been made, messages left. Just waiting to hear back and get the poly going.

Unfortunately I have to say that I am now 180 degrees from earlier. She's playing me. There are secrets being held close. I will give my best shot at the parking lot confession. It doesn't look good. W brought up false positives again on her own earlier before any talk of poly this morning. When I said I will schedule one her mood dropped considerably and hasn't rebounded. She brought up false positives again. She went on to tell me that she is not lying to me.

At least I get this all settled soon hopefully and begin to put the pieces of my life back together. Not what I was hoping for, but I guess everyone here has felt the same pain.

TimelessLoss posted 8/12/2017 20:15 PM

Great progress on your part. The mood drop/lack of rebound is a good sign. You've been incrementally shifting the power dynamic. She had every reason to believe that she had put you off on the poly. Each of the previous times she got on the false positive bandwagon the poly issue seemingly died. This time however her playbook didn't work out the same.

You can expect some further reaction from her after she has time to collect herself. It could range from more trickle truth well short of a confession, to refusal to poly coupled with promises to do anything else.

IMO you'll get more TT. Something a little more than the full body/boob contact hug and euro cheek kiss. More physical like his hand brushing her ass, or a cheek kiss that ended up brushing her lips. Something that she can use in the false positive narrative.

I think she is doing a bunch of mental calculus trying to figure out a way to get out of the position she is in. She created and has held onto the narrative that nothing inappropriate happened. A finding of deceit in a poly question about sex creates a Grand Canyon Credibility Gap that she is trying to bridge with a very, very thin "false positive" thread.

You did well Pine.

Pineapple posted 8/12/2017 20:27 PM

Thought I might be able to get W to open up and went for a drive. She did confess something to me that caught me off guard. I guess she is working both kids now, told me she talked with our oldest about taking a polygraph test. Apparently our oldest son is now very concerned about the unreliability of polygraph examinations. Folks, I really don't know what to say. This trainwreck only grows worse.

Stevesn posted 8/12/2017 20:33 PM

I would ask her if she really plans to spend the rest of her life and marriage living with lies and omissions that she is keeping from her husband.

TimelessLoss posted 8/12/2017 20:40 PM

Yeah, social engineering/brainwashing young innocents into her agenda. A true MindFvck. She's a dangerous one. There have been plenty of cases of parental alienation after the fact, after a D, after custody issues. But this, a preplanned preemptive laying of the tracks for alienation and shifting the blame to you? A stunning tactic.

Regretfully, IMO this ups the odds that she had a PA.

Bigger posted 8/12/2017 20:56 PM

How does she describe her relationship with OM?
Does she use the word affair to describe their relationship?
Does she see it as inappropriate?
Why did she see it as important that others at work didn’t know about their friendship?

Sharkman posted 8/12/2017 21:14 PM

If she wants to stay married she doesn't talk to the kids about the affair without consulting you first. Period. That's worse than the actual affair.

Exercise the 180 for the next few week.

You best BEST have legal representation ready to roll.

We are here to help you. We are rooting for you harder than you could know

Forged1 posted 8/12/2017 21:32 PM

But this, a preplanned preemptive laying of the tracks for alienation and shifting the blame to you? A stunning tactic

Don't forget the "hit me as punishment". I have a feeling that you're likely to see violence being brought back into the equation. Watch for her to precipitate and provoke a scenario where you "lose your shit" and she has a "legit" reason to call the police. She's already priming the kids with talks of polygraph and "making you the bad guy".

I'd actually suggest easing up on the questions and digging. I have a feeling you may be showing your hand too much.

But if you have not lawyered up already, you really, really need to.

[This message edited by Forged1 at 9:34 PM, August 12th (Saturday)]

MickeyBill2016 posted 8/12/2017 21:36 PM

Hey Pine,
If she is afraid of false results from the poly, give her a one time offer. Hand her a pen and a pad of paper. Take the kids to a movie and leave her at home to write up the final timeline or honest answers to your questions. When you return from the movie she should be done with her "final answer"
Let her know that whatever she admits right now will not automatically result in a divorce, sort of a one month amnesty to "work on" any new revelations.
But let her know that if you are in R or back together and you learn that she did the whole PA, in 6 months or 6 years, that will result in a divorce.

If she refuses and does the "if you don't trust me, we don't belong together" that indicates she has a lot to hide. I hope it works out for you and kids.
Hang in there.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 9:42 PM, August 12th (Saturday)]

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