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Michigan posted 8/13/2017 10:37 AM

Ultimately, she is really hung up on the word affair being used in reference to her "friendship."

Pineapple


To me this indicates that saving her reputation is as great or greater motivator for her than saving the marriage.

She did confess something to me that caught me off guard. I guess she is working both kids now, told me she talked with our oldest about taking a polygraph test. Apparently our oldest son is now very concerned about the unreliability of polygraph examinations.

Pineapple


She is setting up a way to save her reputation with the kids. “Dad thinks that I had an affair but it was a friendship. I took a polygraph and flunked so he divorced me."

[This message edited by Michigan at 10:38 AM, August 13th (Sunday)]

TimelessLoss posted 8/13/2017 10:40 AM

It's starting to look to me that the only way the M survives is if I allow W to rugsweep the A.
Through your lens, what you are seeing and hearing, I get what you are saying. Heck, we get that she is unremorseful. We can't even detect any regret. She labels what happened as an "inappropriate friendship" with no consideration of your perspective as her H.

But there is lots of time left on the clock. Hang in there.

Forged1 posted 8/13/2017 10:50 AM

Time for you to do a bit of deflecting of your own in order to keep her on the back foot.

At some point, ask her to get you the name of whoever the custodian of records at her workplace would be. The person who's responsible for dealing with legal requests for records etc. When she asks why you want that, tell her that you're just pulling information together in case a subpoena for records is necessary.

If she acts up, give her the same face you have her last night and tell her - gently - that all you're looking for is the name.
Then walk away from the conversation.

Once you have that (get her to write it down for you), you then ask for the name of the HR manager.

Fuck with her head a bit.

[This message edited by Forged1 at 10:55 AM, August 13th (Sunday)]

Bigger posted 8/13/2017 10:56 AM

Oh wow…

Look – the argument about the poly reliability and false-positives and all that is compelling but totally irrelevant per se. You are just as likely to get false-negatives that would work to her advantage IF she has something to hide.

Regarding her “work-husband” (where is that barf-bag…). In regards to this being a purely at work, not impacting your marriage or the family… If your wife was working at an important work-project. Let’s say she is striving to meet a deadline for this quarters result… Would she take time off to message you or chat with you? Would she allow her personal life to impact her work life? Well… I recall you mentioned that once at some family-event she was constantly texting someone… The “this is only work” theory doesn’t hold water. It was (and is) impacting her presence at home and her ability to contribute to the family. Isn’t a family-event an important time? Is her job more important than her family?

But both the above are irrelevant. In fact, for now the poly might be totally irrelevant too…

Go back to my first post on your thread. The goal isn’t R or D. It’s getting out of infidelity. The poly… that’s only a tool to help you decide what path to take but the destination always remains the same. Her refusing a poly (or even failing a poly) doesn’t automatically mean you go file for D but it should tell you that the path that probably leads to D is your clearest path and – if nothing else changes – the only one that is open all the way.

I think marriages can survive ANYTHING. ANYTHING other than falsehoods and lies. IF this was a physical affair. IF your wife does not acknowledge this as an affair. IF your wife thinks this was the equivalent of denting the door rather than totaling the car… Then no matter what you do, how much work you do, how much MC you seek… You will ALWAYS remain in infidelity. You will NEVER reach that goal.

Take some time to reflect on what marriage is. Reflect on the importance. Imagine you had this dark, deep secret… Would you want your wife to go to the grave having hidden something so dark and deep from her? Think you can be the husband she deserves if you kept hidden that you had squandered the pension? Think it’s healthy for you and your conscience to carry that weight? Why should it be healthy for her? Why should she be capable of being the wife YOU deserve if she is carrying that weight? The poly is a great tool to get that weight off her shoulder, but so too could be hypnosis or any other method that encourages her to be totally honest and for YOU to be totally open for her being honest.

Pine – That destination… It’s hard to reach. Even with a willing, totally honest and remorseful spouse it’s hard… With someone that doesn’t acknowledge an affair… With your doubts about the truth… You won’t get there. It’s like running a marathon wearing a suite of armor and dragging a concert-piano. The poly can be the equivalent of dropping the piano. If you give in to the poly or some other tool to help YOU feel convinced you know the truth… All you two will be doing is running to the border of infidelity but you will NEVER cross it. You two will remain forever in inactive infidelity.

I do want to warn you that there are THOUSANDS of infidelity-refugees heading for that border. In fact I think this third-option, the rug-sweeping, is the most common way to deal with infidelity. That’s why we so many repeat offenders, so many “Back here… guess you were right” posters. Pineapple – Deal with this NOW because even if there really was no sex between OM and WW and she’s telling the truth then (a) her not seeing this as an EA and (b) you not knowing is going to prevent either of you from becoming the husband or wife the other deserves.

Finally:
Why did OM switch jobs?

Tell your wife that you find it inappropriate that she shares the issues you two face with the kids.
Since she already talks to them then MAYBE you should sit them down and have a talk.

Tell them that there are issues in the marriage. That yes, men and women can be friends and that friendship can be wholesome and respect the boundaries of marriage, but you think some of what you know indicates their mom crossed that line. You can take an example of the time WW was texting the OM during what was supposed to be time spent together as a family, and organizing to meet out of town. Tell them that if this was a healthy, normal adult friendship then she could have invited OM and his wife for dinner with you, but she chose to keep it a secret. Tell them that you need to know the extent of the relationship and that unfortunately you don’t believe what their mom has told you. Therefore you are asking for a poly to help you decide how to move on. Tell them you can deal with ANYTHING except lies and what you don’t know.

Sananman posted 8/13/2017 11:26 AM

If she is concerned about the polygraph deciding her life, perhaps she should have not have had a hidden inappropriate relationship with a coworker that put her in this position.

As other have pointed out...She is delusional if she believes others at her work did not think she was inappropriate with OM. Bringing the children into this is grossly inappropriate and clearly geared toward making you the bad guy at the end of this. You do need to address that in an age appropriate way with the children.

While I was not originally on board with the 'she had a PA' bandwagon... it is getting harder and harder not climb aboard. The story and the subsequent recent behavior is making less and less sense and clearly she is getting more and more irrational.

But assume for a moment that she did not have a PA. All her behavior since your dday has been that of someone deep into a wayward mindset. And she seems to keep going further and further into wayward territory. Her attitude and actions are not that of someone who is even remotely remorseful about this.

I personally believe that reconciliation only works if the wayward fully owns their behavior and is all in on fixing themselves and the mess they made. That does not seem to be your wife.

Honestly had my wayward made a threat to divorce me for following through on a condition of reconciliation (her comment that she might divorce you if she passes he poly) - that would have told me everything I need to know. She would have divorce papers the next day.

You have to make your own call on this... but at this point pass or fail the poly... she does not seem to be reconciliation material. Be prepared for her flat out refusing to take the poly and to double down on her efforts to use the children to manipulate you.

Good luck!

MidnightRun posted 8/13/2017 12:33 PM

I agree with Sananman 100 percent.

Moreover, she's delusional to think you're incapable of piercering the obfuscation.

Hell, even Ray Charles would have been able to see that it was a PA.

Good luck.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 12:37 PM, August 13th (Sunday)]

self-rescuer posted 8/13/2017 12:45 PM

It's completely inappropriate for her to rope your kids into this. Of course they will do everything in their power to stop a D from happening. They will blame you if she fails. They will feel responsible for a D if it happens for not doing enough to stop it. She is dumping this huge burden on them without a second thought and it needs to stop.

Perfectly spot-on post.

It is very telling that she is already prepping your children for the most likely outcome. But far more troubling is that she has discussed it with them in the first place.

She needs to stop this shit immediately.

It truly is alienation and it is a big big big deal in divorce/custody issues. She needs to keep her selfish agenda and spin to herself and leave her innocent children out of this.

And I also think you need to start limiting your engagement with her. She feels that she is coming closer to a reckoning and its making her flail/panic. It is bringing out her cunning and calculating character. Hold your cards much closer.

You have been such a great student of this agonizing journey. You've kept an open mind and looked deeply at her behavior. This will serve you extremely well moving forward.

Sending you every peaceful wish.

antlered posted 8/13/2017 14:20 PM

So it seems like you have shaken off the coma and started thinking again. Sorry that things are going as expected.

Let me ask you a few questions: If her 'inappropriate friendship" turned out to be a full-blown physical affair with regular sex, would you be open to R? What do you she would think your answer would be? It would be useful to know what her reasons for keeping the sexual aspects secret (hence polygraph drama). The beauty of filing for D is that the WS at that point has nothing to lose by coming clean, providing they are not primarily interested in protecting their reputation and not the M.

If you haven't met with an attorney yet then brother it is past time you did so. The stuff with employing the kids needs to be properly documented. Look up how to do so onlines or better yet consult with an attorney about it.

Pineapple posted 8/13/2017 20:05 PM

It's looking like an even lower chance of things being an EA. It's some circumstantial evidence that I've come across which I won't reveal here. But it's not comforting. Oh well, nothing left to do but push forward.

Thanks all for your perspectives and support.

ramius posted 8/13/2017 20:44 PM

I take it that the picture is getting clearer with each passing day.

It's some circumstantial evidence that I've come across which I won't reveal here. But it's not comforting

Do you suspect she is aware of this forum? If so then by all means yes, play your cards close to your chest.

MickeyBill2016 posted 8/13/2017 20:59 PM

It's looking like an even lower chance of things being an EA.

Seems like she is going to stick to her story come hell or high water.

Sorry that there is more truth to come out...the only "good" thing is that you discovered SI and were prepared for things like this to happen, and to get other viewpoints and opinions on how to handle it.

I had nothing like this and as everything unfolded it was like getting hit by a ton of bricks. I was stunned every time something was revealed. At least you had some ideas as to what might happen...

Hang in there, brother.

bobdobalina posted 8/13/2017 21:09 PM

its like watching a train wreck in slow motion the only thing you could of done is mentally accept that there was more so the shock wasnt as hard hitting .
Do you have a plan if it goes further south
best of luck P

Sharkman posted 8/13/2017 22:03 PM

The only things that you can begin doing is to disengage and to protect yourself legally.

Assume the worst my man, if you don't it'll hit you like a freight train if it is the worst

MidnightRun posted 8/13/2017 22:13 PM

Now is the time to get strategic. Keep your emotions in check; get your ducks in a row, and execute. She thinks you're just a walk in the park.

Pineapple posted 8/13/2017 22:23 PM

Do you suspect she is aware of this forum? If so then by all means yes, play your cards close to your chest.

Possibility

Nycountrystrong posted 8/13/2017 22:30 PM

Your wife not liking the term affair is similar to something my STBXWW has said before. My wife would one day say her interactions were inappropriate and defend them the next.

She has gone as far now as to say there is no such thing as a E.A. thats its just a term people made up to make others feel worse. In her mind an affair is only if full Intercourse is occurring.

Apparantly thats how she justifies her actions for years. That if she wasn't actually screwing someone it was acceptable.

My response was if it was so acceptable why did she hide all she was doing and lie to everyone about her actions.

I think your wife is doing the same thing. Spinning it so her actions are no big deal. I speak from experience here. If she cannot admit her actions and fix what in her caused her to do them... She will do these things again.

Shes not remorseful. . Only regretful that she got caught. Living a life waiting for the next betrayal to happen is no way to live . I've done it. . And it will eat you up inside.

Forged1 posted 8/13/2017 22:40 PM

Possibility

I'm glad you're thinking that way.

There's a poster that's showed up on SI relatively recently that has made me think that something is....off. Not specifically WRT your situation, mind. This individual has posted on a few threads. Maybe an old member with a new account and it's all innocent enough but....remember that thing about horses and zebras.

Stay vigilant and stay safe.

farsidejunky posted 8/13/2017 23:08 PM

Pineapple:

I think you know where this is going.

When will you be sick and tired of being sick and tired?

DeWittle posted 8/14/2017 01:57 AM

Pineapple, just read your thread and, well Jman beat me to it...

Pine, After reading your thread I would be absolutely floored if this wasn't a PA. Several years of meet ups, where drinking was involved, asking if he can meet her out of town, going to concerts together.....they sound more like a couple in a relationship than coworkers. A guy does not spend that much time with another woman unless he is getting what he wants, which is sex He is obviously not gay so I find it hard to believe that he was that starved for female companionship when he is married. I'm sorry but this just flies in the face of common sense. I really hope I'm wrong but I seriously doubt it.
My thoughts exactly, you're being gas-lighted and Hoovered.

waitedwaytoolong posted 8/14/2017 07:35 AM

I have heard the phrase work husband and work wife. It means that they were abnormally close and everyone in the office knew about it. And no, it wouldn't surprise anyone there if they were sleeping together. I had this situation in the office I ran and had to fire the senior affair partner for abuse of expense account.

The junior partner went into purgatory and left about six months later.

By the time it gets to this phase, something is most likely going on.

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