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5454real posted 8/17/2017 14:13 PM

How about this? Fine, she failed. The reliability of the test is in question. Do you know what the odds of her failing a second poly would be? Due to the unreliability of the testing?
A second failure would put the possibility of machine error into the thousandths of a percentile.

Would she be willing?

Just a thought

Strength

Dismayed2012 posted 8/17/2017 14:54 PM

So she failed the poly as many here predicted she would and she still hasn't come clean with the truth as again, many here predicted she wouldn't. She also, as many here said she was trying to do, has you questioning that the poly isn't accurate.

I get the feeling that you don't want to know or accept the truth that she's had a PA. I could tell that you didn't want to accept it from your first post and it's carried through this entire thread.

You also seem bent on jumping into R without all the facts on the table. You're setting yourself up for another D-Day down the road. You're allowing her to get away with not telling the whole truth.

The poly is accurate enough to tell if someone's lying or being deceptive. It was "not even close". That equals, no margin of error in the result because she had a full-on PA with the OM. She broke down because she knows the results are correct. She couldn't beat the poly.

There's no gain for anyone on this thread if you D or R. The only one that gains from the right choice is you. Nobody here has a dog in your fight. They are simply trying to help you find the truth and giving advice to help you make the decision that's right for you. The most important thing that you can do during this process is get to the whole truth. Without the whole truth, you're going to experience issues down the road. She's failed miserably the PA part of the poly. She needs to come clean if she truly wants to R. If she doesn't then know that she's not fully committed to you and there's a high probability of a future D-Day.

Please don't sabotage your possibility of R by not pursuing the remaining facts. I wish the best for you.

Sharkman posted 8/17/2017 14:57 PM

That was my thought process in suggesting letting PineApple's wife know that he was going to let OBS know that she failed the exam and that since Pine & his wife were still processing how to handle it that he recommended she run the boyfriend through a similar poly test.

It's an unbeatable plan. Right now it's the water works so much so that the implication would be that pine is abusive asking for a second (given how it was handled shortly thereafter). He still does have a chance for a second poly but he can't spring it on her *just* this instant

By recommending her boyfriend gets one 1. Puts it outside the sphere of her potential manipulation 2. Puts a totally separate person in front of a totally seperate poly examiner providing - in theory - smear-impossible probably it's inaccurate and 3. Aligns with the narrative that Pine has used for the pst 48 hours that he's looking eyes forward to R.

Pine BE VIGILANT AS HELL ABOUT NO CONTAVT BREAKS DURING THIS TIME!!!!

I almost think you need to let her know your counseling team is eventually recommending another test down the line and one question will be about breaks in No Contact.

william posted 8/17/2017 15:47 PM

you can r if your wife had sex with him. ask me how i know, lol.

yoi cant r if shes lying. thats false r. doesnt matter what the lies are, its not possible. you need to clear that rubble away. start with total honesty.

in all my time in si i cant remember an ea that didnt go pa unless something stood in the way (distance, a one side ea, caught before it wen pa, something that literally made it impossible). ive heard of oeople flying across the world, driving a day in a car, fucking with the kids next room over, but ive NEVER heard of an ea not becoming a pa.

the betrayal step is just a small one to a cheater. not this huge gulf we see as a bs.

each time you put pressure on her and its working you promptly remove the pressure. thats time to show the cold face and push more. yeah, we know how it is. we all stood there in your shoes.

i literally told my wife, finallly, you have 1 week to shit the whole truth. after that week if i find a significant difference in anything it is done. no chances. she looked at me, realized i meant it. she told the truth. after months of lies.

you get her to that point and then fold. why go to all that effort and fold.

you need to hold strong. stop comforting her for cheating and failing polygraphs. she did wrong. not you. sheshould be comforting you.


ramius posted 8/17/2017 15:56 PM

Just a thought. What if Pine is playing a little 4D chess right now?

harrybrown posted 8/17/2017 16:29 PM

If she is still an addict with the OM, she can not give up her addiction.

If she will not tell you the truth, she is so scared about what she did with the OM.

Maybe she had a threesome with him and some other guy and she does not want to tell you all of the many wonderful memories she has of sex with the OM.

She may be dreaming about the sex with the OM when she is with you.

I hope not, but without all the truth, she can't start to put your new marriage back together.

She murdered the old one. You need the truth to know how to proceed.

Without all the truth, your love for her will get sick and die over time.

Too painful. You will wonder how many other affairs she has had.

And when she is having the next one.

My friend tried after the first boyfriend.

But when he found out she had two new married boyfriends, he was done.

If you can't get the truth, save your self further pain and separate. Go see your attorney and do not waste more money on IC or MC or further pollys.

Hope you do get the truth, the lack of truth will haunt you for years.

If she ever loved you, she should at least give you the whole truth so that this does not eat away at you forever.

JC109 posted 8/17/2017 17:18 PM

in all my time in si i cant remember an ea that didnt go pa unless something stood in the way (distance, a one side ea, caught before it wen pa, something that literally made it impossible). ive heard of oeople flying across the world, driving a day in a car, fucking with the kids next room over, but ive NEVER heard of an ea not becoming a pa.

The only thing between an EA and a PA is lack of opportunity (living far away)....or when it is discovered prior to becoming a PA. If the EA has been going on for more than a few weeks, maybe a couple of months and they are meeting face to face (as opposed to a chat online)...the chances of no PA are slim to none. Otherwise what is the point of the EA...especially for a guy. Guys don't have affairs for the conversation. Ultimately they want sex out of it. Otherwise they get bored and pull away..

Smillie posted 8/17/2017 17:35 PM

They must surely be in contact right now. It is full on damage control. Sorry about the poly. I'm guessing this relationship was quite physical. It would be great if she would cough it all up in one big go but that's highly unlikely. Hang in there.

Just remember when you are talking to her you are talking to them. It's better to get the OMW involved. 1 against 2 is not a fair fight bz 99% of times 2 wins.

I am guessing you are right and she is totally infatuated with him. He is younger so he might not feel the same way. I would not be surprised if she gets dumped hard once his partner finds out.

[This message edited by Smillie at 6:10 PM, August 17th (Thursday)]

ISurvived7734 posted 8/17/2017 18:03 PM

Yeah. This...

in all my time in si i cant remember an ea that didnt go pa unless something stood in the way (distance, a one side ea, caught before it wen pa, something that literally made it impossible). ive heard of oeople flying across the world, driving a day in a car, fucking with the kids next room over, but ive NEVER heard of an ea not becoming a pa.

SurvivingEA posted 8/17/2017 19:40 PM

Emotional and sexual manipulation of a level I've never read here. She's downright scary.

You do what you think is best for your situation Pineapple, but I can guarantee you one thing - this is going to nag at you forever. You will never be able trust anything she tells you because in your gut you know she's lying. You are going to be constantly wondering and on guard.

My heart breaks for you. I speak from experience.

Sharkman posted 8/17/2017 19:54 PM

Pineapple,

You've been hit with a few 2x4s (including from me) but just know that down to a person that we support you 100%. Every single sad story here runs it's own course.

Tamers1955 posted 8/18/2017 00:05 AM

It take it the other guy has no intentions of leaving his wife for your wife ,I mean ,why would someone put themselves through ,what your wife has been through over the last couple of months ,with all here lies ,and conniving with the children.
I am afraid you should be telling her to go and have a happy new life with her work husband and you will be very happy for her ,even though she broke your heart with all her deceitfulnes
I get it you love her ,but can you really live with her .how are you going to feel, when she texts you that she has to work late ,even if she is working late ,the worm in your head will be slowly turning ,just wondering if she is telling the truth or is this just more lies .
When she had pulled that divorcing you stunt ,you should have shown her the phone directory open at the page for lawyers ,what an manipulative person you have on your hands.
But pineapple ,you have got to do what you can live with ,as everyone is different but I cannot see how she loves you ,with what she has put you and your family through,and can't even think that she likes you.

twisted posted 8/18/2017 08:53 AM

You've been hit with a few 2x4s (including from me) but just know that down to a person that we support you 100%.

I think Shark speaks for everyone here.
You know the facts.
She was hedging the reliability of the poly from your first mention of it.
She was threatening divorce is she actually passed.
She maintains it is incorrect, even though the tech says it wasn't even close.
She had consistently lied, manipulated and misled you at every turn from the very beginning.

You may not ever know the real truth, but you have enough to know she is not a wife an partner you can trust. At this point, she has backed you into a corner of divorce, or accept my lies and ignore it ever happened.
But it is your choice. Time to choose, will it be door number 1, or door number two?

Smillie posted 8/18/2017 09:10 AM

You should tell her you want a relationship with a real woman....not a sniveling coward or a sneaking liar. If she can't be straight up with you then she cannot be your friend let alone your wife.

Michigan posted 8/18/2017 09:39 AM

I have to say that if she is harboring a secret at this point then she's taking it to the grave.

Pineapple


Of course she will take it to the grave. She’s convinced that a PA is a deal breaker. If she admits it the marriage is over.

She will never change her story unless the dynamic is changed. Now it’s if she admits the truth the marriage is over. Change it to the marriage is over and telling the truth could save it.

I know of a case where the wife got caught in a torrid PA. She knew that her husband would be upset but expected it to blow over because the marriage was so solid. To her the relationship was everything and the sex meant nothing. Since the sex was so unimportant she told her husband all the graphic details (porn star sex).

But when the husband asked if they had sex in the marriage bed she could tell it was a deal breaker. For years and years she swore up and down that it never happened, that they used the guest room.

Then her husband filed for divorce. Now the marriage was over so she had nothing to lose. So she told the truth because now it couldn’t hurt and it might help.

They did ultimately get a divorce but the husband forgave her for lying all of those years. His rational: What choice did she have?

[This message edited by Michigan at 9:49 AM, August 18th (Friday)]

stayedforthekids posted 8/18/2017 10:37 AM

Just a thought. What if Pine is playing a little 4D chess right now?

I sincerely hope he is; otherwise, this is one of the saddest things I've ever read here at SI.

MidnightRun posted 8/18/2017 13:45 PM

Pine, operate on the assumption that it was a physical affair and that she's a liar. Can you live with that?

beenthereinco posted 8/18/2017 14:46 PM

I think we may have lost Pineapple.

If you are still reading this please understand that everyone here is trying to be on your side. That doesn't always mean that folks will say what you want to hear. Come back if you need some help. I think everyone is just concerned that you are sweeping this physical affair right under the rug and setting yourself up to be hurt again in the near future.

Pineapple posted 8/18/2017 17:09 PM

Okay all, fear not, I am not plunging forward with blinders on, oblivious to the icebergs in the water ahead. Nor am I deep in any masterful game of 4d chess.

Lots of considerations re family, finances, and other factors. I can always reverse course if I don't like how things are progressing.

At this point I have more or less followed the prescribed path as I navigate through the aftermath of discovering W's dishonesty, deception and betrayal. At each juncture I have gained some additional information, but nothing that has crossed the line from EA to PA. I don't think anyone here would quibble over whether EA or PA, it ends in A either way. The question is have I arrived at a place where I can say with relative confidence that W is being honest about what has transpired? Or is she sitting on a big secret about a PA that still might be revealed? Are there steps I might take that could add some clarity to the degree of honesty such as has been suggested to recontact OBS and see if she will have OM take a poly with some other examiner? Sure, I could pursue that, and I might. But I have doubts that OBS would be willing and might not even take the call. My impression from before, which I didn't really mention at the time on here, is that she seemed primarily interested in $$$. She made comments to me about her H making such great money, and I recall OM talking at one of the dinners about the valuable home ($2M) from his parents' estate which he was trying to sell at the time. He's an only child so it's all his. So, would OBS really want to kill her M at this point over an A which she feels she has probably put down already on her end?

At this point things seem to have spiraled to a new low. W, who was making progress on some fronts, reading and digesting materials suggested in her IC, has basically crashed. She feels 1 inch tall now. I am mindful that she is the mother of my children, and I don't want to see her crushed if we end up splitting. She has expressed her concern about seeing that I heal, as well, if this ends up going to D, which she now feels is more likely than R. I am worried less that she is sitting on a big secret about a PA than if she was knee deep in an unusually long-developing EA, came clean mostly with her 11-page confession, but has now been beaten into the ground so low that she isn't going to be able or willing to reemerge into this process. Consider the possibility that she was legitimately concerned about failing the poly despite it being an EA. I get it, it looks really suspicious. I am not going to argue that it doesn't. But it might have been a legit worry. And it could have been self fulfilling. She might carry so much guilt over what has happened that she would react emotionally to the poly question each time. She is a very emotional person. The test measures physiological reaction, not lying. It's an indicator, but by no means a truth extractor. I also think that I may have prejudiced the examiner with some of the background I provided to him.

I also get that nearly every person here has been badly burned in their personal life by a betrayor, myself included. Most everyone here is conditioned to expect things to unfold like they do, because 95+% of the time, it's much worse than it initially appears and is presented by the betrayor.

This is not my first time of being betrayed, either. I had my first LT relationship end when my college gf slept with another guy after I graduated a year before her and moved to take a job. Our relationship was going to be long distance for the year. But when I found out, that was it, I ended it. I managed to get the truth out of her over a phone call. But there were no kids, no home, no lifetime of savings, my entire adult life in front of me and still single in my prime. Plenty of viable women to date. Sure I hurt for a few weeks, but it was an easy choice compared to now.

The issue of our kids getting pulled into this is terrible. I think it stems from immaturity, as does pretty much the entire A. However, I haven't exactly handled this perfectly myself. I have done probably one of the worst jobs with implementing the 180 of anybody here. Alcohol. Anger. Recklessness. More anger. Bailed on IC before even starting.

But here I am. I am catching my breath right now. I have time, I think. I am ready to sit down and talk with a MC and see if that might help. I know there is risk. Perhaps a lot of it as many of you have noted. But in the meantime I can investigate some legal options should it come to D, and for the possibility of a post-nup.

Again, thank you for your concern and wisdom. I am still reading. I do appreciate the tremendous sharing of perspectives from all of you.

TimelessLoss posted 8/18/2017 17:29 PM

Pine, thanks for checking back in. Your previous message after the poly said that you were "fried". Understandable that you had to come back from that.

You've never written in a way that suggested your thought process was cloudy or confused. Instead you drank from the firehose of info coming at you from all the good people her. Trying to process that while living in what may the greatest trial of your life is virtually unmanageable.

This latest message has the clarity of thought that shows you have reflected deeply and are now able to move forward. Heart and mind more clearly aligned. Realistic about expectations.

I said a while back, pre poly, when she was acting out at her worst, that there was still a chance of you leading her out of this. Perhaps it has taken her to hit bottom to realize the devastation of her A. Time and her actions will show if that is true.

I believe you are going into this with eyes opened up. Just protect your heart. She has really only shown deceit and manipulation post D Day. I do hope that she begins to see and act on atoning for the harm she has done to you.

You know everyone is 100% for you, and therefore, what you want as an outcome. You also know that we'll get after you if we see a hint of you accepting any blame for your W's A.

You can lead her. She has to do the heavy lifting.


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