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Sanibelredfish posted 8/24/2017 17:33 PM

Pineapple, as others suggest maybe you should take a poly yourself to see just how stressful it is if you have nothing to hide. My slight twist is that you would do it on your own without her knowing. Heck, going to the same examiner and having him ask the same questions would be a great way to assess the exams reliability.

Maybe all this isn't really necessary though, I think we all know why she failed.

Ponus18 posted 8/24/2017 17:45 PM

Yes Pine that's the first thing I thought too - you're such a bad person, confronting your WW the way you did. Don't you carry around with you a set of detailed instructions on how to properly and fairly confront your WW about her affair at all times, just in case you happen to uncover one? I know I do.

P.S. I don't even believe the book says what she says it does. Sure, maybe, but given the source I'll believe that when I read it myself.

I guess this is why disengagement is the way to go. I actually got a written agreement from my now XWW that all communications must be via email or text - I can't even begin to tell you what a joy it was living in my house with her during that time period in the months before our D knowing that she literally couldn't say a word to me without violating the court's order.

Sharkman posted 8/24/2017 19:22 PM

She is pushing you away because it's easier for her to handle her ending it on her terms rather than you ending it.

Whether you want to reconcile or not, her behavior will only spiral in one direction until you take direct, undeniable action. Only when sunlight is shining on it will this precipice falling end.

I'll let others interject as to what that direct action is

[This message edited by Sharkman at 7:23 PM, August 24th (Thursday)]

Sananman posted 8/24/2017 19:23 PM

So her brilliant and biting comeback to this whole situation is to blame you for forcing her to lie? Are you serious? Her position is that you forced her to tell multiple lies to your face because of the way she was confronted? This is the argument and mindset of a very entitled and very immature person.

I have worked in litigation both civil and criminal for almost 20 years. I have deposed, questioned and cross-examined literally thousands of people during that time. No one tricks or forces someone to lie.

Your wife is very, very deep into wayward thinking. I get the sense that she is manufacturing a narrative where ultimately she becomes the victim.

Very sorry to hear that her attitude and thinking is getting worse.

bobdobalina posted 8/24/2017 19:46 PM

It all seems to have stalled in terms of progress but is she getting testy because nothing went on and the badgering is wearing her down or she's tired of holding onto the lie
The comment about you not putting in effort to reconcile is a bit rich concidering the damage wasn't done by you what effort do you need to put in

Walloped posted 8/24/2017 19:50 PM

She was basically saying that she has been the only one committed to repairing our relationship since day 1 (from dday I guess) and that I have not bought in to the R process like she has.

Translation: "You are not letting me rugsweep this and pretend nothing happened. We need to simply move past this / put it behind us, and your demand for honesty and transparency and for me to own up to what I've done is getting in the way."

She views R as simply remaining married. We call that false R. Because without addressing core issues, working on herself, and becoming an authentic person, this won't go away. It will haunt you and sucks the soul right out of you. Doesn't mean you can't R. But it's got to be authentic and real, and it requires a ton of very hard work.

theaterguy posted 8/24/2017 20:34 PM

Hey Pine, have you thought about hypnosis. It certainly helped me. Peace to you......

TimelessLoss posted 8/24/2017 23:05 PM

August 12th:

She says that most BSes just believe their WS and are able to reconcile.
August 24th:
She was basically saying that she has been the only one committed to repairing our relationship since day 1 (from dday I guess) and that I have not bought in to the R process like she has
There you go Pine. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the R process...her version of the R process. You made the mistake of not believing her lies.

Pine, put aside the PA for a moment. She says it never happened, the poly indicates she was deceptive, and you've concluded/accepted it was a PA.

Her latest admission is that she indeed had an A. It was a "Deep EA". Not the "platonic friendship" gas lighting she fed you from DDay onward. She was resolute that it was a friendship, not an affair, at most an "inappropriate friendship".

What was your reaction to that admission? What were you thinking? Feeling? I think those are important barometers of where you are at with your W, your M, and your path forward.

I reread all of your posts. A part of an early post popped for me now. You said that years ago you asked her for MC, she "balked", and you detached with endurance sports. Sometime thereafter she brought up MC and you "turned a deaf ear". Then your post has:

I was wrong not to jump on the chance at that point.
I have a sense that this is a driver for your willingness to hang in despite her continuing lies/trickle truth. Am I right? Are you trying to make up for that lost opportunity?

That same July 16th. post had this:

Whatever the results of the poly, I will accept things and move forward. We will come out of this stronger.
Reflect on that statement now that you know the results of the poly. And that you know she continues to deny the PA. To me this is another barometer for you about your W, your M, and your path forward.

She'll still exhibits strong wayward thinking. Rereading your posts in one sitting confirms the obvious. That she is a pretty ordinary cheater who follows the script of gas lighting, blame shifting, minimizing lies, lingering lies, and trickle truth. Is this first big admission, that there was indeed a "deep EA", a sign of her turning the corner on her wayward thinking?

You wrote in your posts about glimpses of positive actions on her part where you thought she was "getting it". The problem, which you saw, is that these glimpses were bracketed by trickle truth and acting out directed at you. And it turns out with her latest admission that she was still holding on to the biggest deceit: that there was no A.

Her admission is big. It becomes very big if you start seeing consistent action on her part that the wayward thinking is melting away and your healing from the pain she inflicted becomes her primary focus.

farsidejunky posted 8/25/2017 08:15 AM


Brother, I think it is incredibly clear (as many have stated all along) how deep this went. I think you know it as well, even though you seem incredibly hesitant to state (type) it. I think this is you in the BS fog, attempting to justify to yourself in an effort to reconcile.

Here is where I will kindly point out to you that your dissonance over this situation is due to her words and actions not matching. You are trying to take both into account, and they are not matching. This sets your gut off, and leads to you questioning everything.

Please...answer this question:

What do her actions tell you?

JC109 posted 8/25/2017 11:11 AM

I think it would help you to write down what she told you about the affair during the first week after you found out. And then write down what you know now and what she had disclosed so far. If they are very similar, good. If not.....Well, it may give you some perspective.

Dismayed2012 posted 8/25/2017 11:27 AM

I agree with you 'pine'. "wth?" She's now saying that you didn't go by a playbook that you didn't even know about. What happened to the fact that she wasn't going by the monogamous part of the relationship playbook that she DID know about? She's really a piece of work. I say "piece of work" because it sounds better, but I'm really thinking "piece of s**t". Just sayin'.

Bigger posted 8/25/2017 11:55 AM

That book I referred to (Not Just Friends) talks a lot more about honesty than it does about how to confrontÖ There is even a chapter titled Telling the Truth Rebuilds Trust.

To cleanse the lying that occurred during the affair and in the early stages of revelation, the involved partner needs to be totally honest. Only information offered freely can clear the air.

Telling the story of the affair replaces a fictionalized account with the truth. It is totally shattering and disorienting to find out that intrigue and deceptiveness were going on while you were assuming everything was normal. Thatís why both partners need to get out their calendars, discuss the receipts, and review the cell phone calls. Things wonít make sense to the betrayed partner until all the missing pieces are accounted for.

Quotes from Not Just Friends

Read the book (you can find it scanned online for free) and you will see that it talks in depth about honesty, truth, the damage to trust caused by infidelity and the importance of rebuilding trust. See that part about both partners needing to get out their calendars and discuss the receipts? Donít take it literally; itís more that both parties need to take out whatever is needed to account for the time and DISCUSS what the relevant info tells you.
For example: If your wife states that on a certain day out of town she was alone and not with OM, then let her show the relevant credit-card charge or expense report supporting her story that she had a meal for one. If she says there is no contact, allow you to access her phone-logs and e-mail.

There is even a chapter about not making progress called ďLingering SuspicionĒ.

Pineapple. Iím wondering if we can change tacticsÖ

When you asked your WW for the truth I take it that you made it clear that letting you know the truth would not kill any chance of reconciliation. I take it she knows that it would be safe for her to tell the truth. Makes one wonder why she sticks to her story. I guess the following might be the reasons:
Sheís telling the truth. Once again, we canít eliminate that possibility. Once again, I think itís highly unlikely.

Sheís afraid that the truth will kill any chance of reconciliation. Thatís why you need to convince her (and be true to it) that even if you learn of repeated physical encounters you will give R a shot.

She thinks the truth isnít required to R or that the truth might make R harder. This is where you need to convince her that without trust R isnít possible. If sheís reading NJF she might get that messageÖ
She is protecting OM. After all Ė in her infidelity-fantasy a cruel and unjust world is keeping them apart and she must sacrifice her personal happiness for her kids and to the adequate but unloving husband to keep her prince safe from the wrath of a vengeful wifeÖ Itís precisely to deal with this that I suggested you let his wife know of the poly because it just might start the chain-reaction that makes your wife crumble.

Iím wondering if we can hit on one or more of the above areas. Sort of change tactics or methods. Instead of hammering that you donít know the truth and donít believe her then focus on YOUR inability to believe her even if you wanted to.

ďHoney. Before the poly, I had doubts about your story. I was hoping the poly would confirm what you said, but instead it makes it even harder for me to believe I have the whole story. Even if I wanted to believe I know all then itís really a no-win situation for me. I want to progress, I want to move our marriage out of infidelity. But I also know that I will never be convinced that I know the truth, and that doubt will always prevent me from truly committing to the marriage.

I would never fully trust you even if you have already told me everything, because I still donít truly think that you have. At the same time, IF I were to try to soldier on and try to deal with my doubts, IF you are hiding something then that is a clear indication YOU donít trust me.

I have serious doubts about working on a marriage where one or both has doubts and there isnít total trust. Maybe itís the best for both of us that we really reconsider if we should remain married. I wouldnít want either of us to regret our lives 20-30 years from now.Ē

If she asks you what she can do to convince you further, then turn the question back on her: What does she think she could do? Poly? Hypnosis? Witnesses? Could you ask a colleague or her best friend?
If she insists you should believe her then ask her to switch positions. If she was dealing with you having done what she did, then would she believe you?

[This message edited by Bigger at 11:56 AM, August 25th (Friday)]

TimelessLoss posted 8/25/2017 13:44 PM

Along the lines of JC109's and B's post...

I told you earlier that I reread all of your posts. I quickly stated that she is a standard cheater who lies and left that sitting there. Now I'm back to it.

July 22nd you wrote:

I paraphrased Josephs letter that one of you shared the link to it. I used it to help illustrate to her how important a path forward is not dependent on what has happened but on complete honesty about it, because without that honesty there can be no foundation for rebuilding trust.

I've said before that you are going to have to lead her out of this. Lead w/o a guarantee she will follow.So connect the dots for her: honesty begets trust begets a path toward reconciliation. Go back through your posts and list every lie she told you. Date each one of them. Seeing them cataloged is quite striking. End the list with her big admission that she was in a "deep EA".

Have another conversation with her about Reconciliation. Yes, Reconciliation. Reconciliation is the lead in to the convo. The guts of the convo are honesty and trust. The antithesis of lies and deceit. Show her the list. Tell her that this is why you don't believe her. She hasn't been honest with you therefore you have no basis to trust her. And this is with leaving the PA aside. Repeat what you wrote on the 22nd.:

a path forward is not dependent on what has happened but on complete honesty about it
I will never suggest that you rug sweep the PA. I am suggesting that you reframe and recalibrate the conversation to what you need to have from her to create the environment where the path forward might be reconciliation.

I think we are feeling that you've reached an impasse of sorts. Impasse=Limbo=No Action=No Way Forward.

Do something different to get a different result.

Sharkman posted 8/25/2017 14:13 PM


At a minimum let the OBS know that she failed the test. At the very least it will test to see if no contact is still in place.

Don't let her know you're doing it of course. If she comes at you mad about doing it then you know that there is only one way that she could have found out.

We are rooting for you.

Pineapple posted 8/25/2017 17:36 PM

There have been many of you contributing suggestions and asking questions in the past few pages and I just haven't had time to really contemplate these and reply. I'll try to get some thoughts together and post tomorrow.

One little anecdote that occurred to me just now having become buried in the back of my head during one of the many conversations with W in the past couple weeks is this. Apparently after W filed on H #1, she soon began a romantic relationship with a guy who had been a close friend at work. Now, I wasn't there to know anything about the timing of it all. This probably is not surprising to anyone here, but is an interesting tidbit, regardless.

OrdinaryDude posted 8/25/2017 18:00 PM

So she has a proven track record...why would you want to be a continued part of that?

Pineapple posted 8/25/2017 18:24 PM

why would you want to be a continued part of that?

One of the two paths ahead at the upcoming fork in the trail is looking like it may have better illumination than the other. I can't tell for certain yet. But...

MidnightRun posted 8/25/2017 18:56 PM

Needless to say, that 'tidbit' speaks volumes.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 6:58 PM, August 25th (Friday)]

TimelessLoss posted 8/25/2017 20:58 PM

Apparently after W filed on H #1, she soon began a romantic relationship with a guy who had been a close friend at work. Now, I wasn't there to know anything about the timing of it all. This probably is not surprising to anyone here, but is an interesting tidbit, regardless.
Trtroles and Jduff had asked how her previous marriage ended.
She insinuated that her first husband was unfaithful to her and moved out of state

sassylee posted 8/25/2017 22:14 PM

I've just caught up on this thread. I'm sorry Pineapple. This shit is just awful.

I am confused, unless I accidentally bypassed a page of this thread...I read your WW failed the poly. Which questions resulted in deceptive answers? What questions were failed?

I'm also concerned with your wife's diversion tactics. When they lack remorse or empathy, trying to turn the focus on the BS and what they did wrong is just more abuse on top of the old abuse. Your wife desperately wants to be the victim - and paint you as abuser. She wants your phone so she can twist your attempt at receiving support as further abuse to her. She wants to find a text discussing her infidelity and hold that up and cry, "See! You're doing it too! You're keeping secrets and discussing our marriage with others!!"

A remorseful spouse would not be trying to blameshifting so much - especially after reading the books she has...

[This message edited by sassylee at 10:16 PM, August 25th (Friday)]

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