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Long Term Affairs Part 38

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Svon posted 10/27/2018 10:33 AM

Hopeandhealing, obviously “nig” was supposed to say “big”. 😬😬what an unfortunate typo. It would be fun to have a meet up! All of us gather somewhere spouses in tow. It would be an interesting study on human nature seeing how they all interact with each other. Have a good weekend ladies! We all deserve it!

amanda123 posted 10/27/2018 17:13 PM

There is more to him than the negative picture that I am painting of him. I am trying to choose to be happy however there are these issues that are stopping me. I dont know how to get around these without causing another huge upset. He is a known and respected man in our community. His job has helped build this reputation for him. I also believe it gave him the swelled head that made it possible for him to make those shitty choices.

Svon I would have thought the same thing, after I told him what I needed from him that if he loved me enough then he would answer my questions, it didn't happen.

HopeandHealing Thank you for your advice and opinions. I very rarely get more than a one or two word answer when it comes to discussing anything about the LTA. He hates to be grilled because he doesnt want to admit to anything. I have caught him out in lies when I have asked him the same question a couple of times over and he has given a different answer, so I have challenged him on it.

His inability to communicate well is long standing, its nothing new. In fact I remember clearly telling him before we were married that if there was an issue he needed to speak to me about it as I wasnt a mind reader. The mind boggles on how he managed to have the LTA with OW as they met on the internet. It started off as an EA for a long time and then turned into a PA.

Svon posted 10/27/2018 18:22 PM

Amanda123, I get that “choosing to be happy”. It’s something I have to choose everyday. I hope one day I don’t even have to think about it! That’s my goal. That’s when I know my healing in as good as it will ever get!:)

Carolina52 posted 10/27/2018 18:33 PM

My WS LTA lasted 10 years. Yes it is possible to R. Very hard but both of you have to do the work. The WS has to take complete responsibility for it and the BS has to like within to see how they looked the other way for so long. It is not for the weak. Only the strong survive.

amanda123 posted 10/28/2018 05:56 AM

Svon and Carolina thank you for your comments I will continue to try and choose to be happy. I think my H needs to go to counselling with me. I dont know if I am going to succeed in getting him there, but I am going to try.

Enjoy your weekend.

gmc94 posted 10/30/2018 01:47 AM

Carolina52 -

BS has to like within to see how they looked the other way for so long.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.... can you enlighten me?

amanda123 posted 10/30/2018 05:29 AM

gmc94 I think Carolina meant to say "BS has to look within to see how they looked the other way for so long.

I did not know my H was having an A. He kept everything hidden passwords etc and deleted anything that would give him away. So I dont feel that I looked the other way.

Svon posted 10/30/2018 09:45 AM

Actually, I have heard many MC say that in long term affairs even the BS makes adjustments in life to accommodate the affair that should have been red flags. I don’t buy into that thinking or counseling and have immediately ended a session with a counselor who was taking that route. However, it seems to have worked for some so I would not judge.

gmc94 posted 10/30/2018 13:09 PM

I don't want to judge either, as I think every situation is different, but my WH did all of his dirty work at the office and during the day. I did sense differences in his behavior in the months before their fist sex. I was in IC w/in 7 days of what I now know was the 1st time they had sex. Within a month, I was raising the issues many of us see - distance, short temper, drinking, etc. And I did confront him on it. Asked him to see and IC or do MC and he refused.

I always got the same (cheater's handbook) answer of stress at work. Every. Single. Time.

Even if there were bigger "red flags", if a BS confronts and is blatantly lied to, how is this something for the BS to "fix"? We cannot fix someone that lies to us. Until dday, a BS trusts their WS - as we were ALL taught to do. From childhood we are implicitly and often explicitly told that marriage is a special or sacred bond that includes trust and vulnerability (at least in western culture).
Now, in retrospect I can see wanting to look at how that may not be such a good idea, but I do see that as being different in the context of an A (ie it may be a good idea generally to just not trust others). But then I get into the trouble I've had since dday of reconciling "trust but verify" and "but you must be vulnerable".

I do suspect we all lie to ourselves about our spouses (I read a book over the summer called Private Lies that discusses this) - we want to see the good even when there's some pretty glaring evidence to the contrary. But I get kind of freaked out thinking a therapist could imply to a BS that they bear some responsibility for a WS' blatant lies and deception. They are good at it. They take our love and trust and abuse us with the very things we cherished. Reminds me of a line in "The Green Mile" that the pedophile "killed them with their love". I feel that about my WH - that he used my own love to kill parts of me that I cherished... parts I fear I will never get back.

I guess if I'd never confronted my WH on the behavior changes after the sex started, I would have a different lens here. But the reality is that cheaters are VERY good liars, and they use our own love and trust for them against us. What am I missing (or am I just too caught up in my pain/rage to see it?)

Svon posted 10/30/2018 14:36 PM

GMC94, I saw things in my husband, but they weren’t “new” . He has suffered from anxiety and depression his whole life. I got tired of suggesting he get help and resigned to enjoy his highs and let him stew in his lows. I do believe the OW had nothing to do with that though. She was just a compartmentalized drug or escape, but not the cause. He is getting constant help now with therapy and meds. Do I wish it had been years ago? Hell yes, but I am not about to let someone else enjoy the new and improved when I deserved it all along.

amanda123 posted 10/30/2018 15:53 PM

My H has always been extremely moody. I just accepted that from very early on in our relationship. Never in my wildest of dreams would i have suspected he was in a LTA. He hid it very well.

CaliforniaNative posted 10/30/2018 23:48 PM

So I recently just found out a a major poster in R and a few times in this forum, thought her reconciliation was going well had another D day recently. Same AP. D day 1 was just over a year ago. I am worried because she hasn’t been posting ifor a couple of weeks and I know she has had health issues over this before. So heartbreaking....she deserves so much better. Sometimes you wish you could be there in person for those in need.

[This message edited by CaliforniaNative at 11:51 PM, October 30th (Tuesday)]

hopeandhealing posted 10/31/2018 01:54 AM

but I am not about to let someone else enjoy the new and improved when I deserved it all along.

I said the same thing to my friend when discussing they whys of staying together. I said, what do I have to lose? I feel I am pretty well at the bottom, so there is only up from here. If he is genuinely remorseful and doing the work to be the partner I have always deserved, it will royally burn my ass to have some other woman get the reward of those efforts when I was the recipient of the crap. No, I am going to wait and see, reserve judgement and give him the opportunity. So far, I am glad I have.

a major poster in R and a few times in this forum, thought her reconciliation was going well had another D day recently. Same AP.

That is really awful to hear Californianative. I feel very sorry for the devastation she is again feeling when she offered such a gift. I hope she is able to reach out to the SI group again for support when she feels the time is right for her.

This place is an interesting little subculture, all brought together as a result of pain, deceit, loss and betrayal. Interestingly, I have WS for whom I "root/cheer" when I read in the wayward forum, and those in the JFO who I feel immense compassion for as their pain is so very raw and palpable. This is an awful thing to go through, but the sense of community, knowing you are walking the same path as someone else before you and others after, gives a semblance of peace and notion that it will be ok in time. We have some choice over how much power and space we give this trauma.

For me, there are people with whom I really resonate and share a similar experience, perspective and others who challenge my thinking which is equally as beneficial and if I can say something with helps someone else, than I feel like the shit sandwich I was forced to eat had a slightly sweeter taste (if that's possible with a poop sandwich) and something good comes of it.

As for the thread focus, and BS missing what was under their noses, I take no ownership for that. I trust, it's what I do, I make no apologies for that. I wouldn't change who I am or was. My WH's job trains them to lie and trains them to lie well in high pressure situations. He developed the skill and practiced it frequently in his work....mastery is his attained level I would say.

onthefence123 posted 10/31/2018 02:44 AM

I’ve been catching up on some of these posts and the discussion about risking your family, I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately.

WSs don’t think they are risking anything because they 110% believe they will never be caught. My WH was stupid enough to believe that one day he would be back to happy in our marriage, that we would “click” and that he would leave OW dead in the water. So stupid, there isn’t another word I have for that type of thinking.

So, does it change anything in my mind knowing that HE wasn’t “risking” anything in his eyes—during f***fest? That’s what I call it IRL, it’s not an A I just don’t know....

Svon posted 10/31/2018 09:10 AM

Onthefence123, oddly, it does help me a bit knowing wear his head was (obviously up his ass), but I do think that if he had been contemplating leaving and was expecting to get caught, it would hurt more. Most cheaters are not right in their heads. If they were thinking clearly and acted this way, then yes, for me it would be worse.

DomesticTourist posted 11/4/2018 18:29 PM

New member, glad to be here and receive the support.

I get to be in this club, too.

My story in my profile.

Thanks for helping me know I am not insane.

gmc94 posted 11/5/2018 13:44 PM

Svon -
Just had to chuckle at how we can be so similar and different at the same time (and I mean the collective, universal "we").

I'd rather have been divorced 10-15 years ago than lied to.
To me, it hurts immeasurably either way.

Unfortunately, we BS don't get a choice in the type of A our idiot WS chooses. I do not for one second diminish the pain and heartache that any BS feels after any type of an A. Each A, and each response to an A is as unique as we are. Some here on SI divorce after short term EA or drunken ONS. Others recover and reconcile after decades long, limerance LTAs. All of us - and our personal limits & coping strengths - are different.

My WH seems to have a hard time understanding my devastation from his LTA. He can minimize the A and damage to me from it bc he wasn't going to leave me, he didn't love the POSOW, etc. I honestly think he believed that bc he didn't really like POSOW or the sex, the A wasn't so "bad" - like it wasn't a big deal (& I do believe WH that after 1st time, sex wasn't so good bc AP was EXTREMELY "limited" in what she'd do and what she would allow him to do, I ... which goes back to my theory that it's NOT about the sex - it's about the thrill, power and control of deceit).

But I'd rather my WH divorced me and allowed me the respect to make conscious, informed decisions about MY life than lie to me for decades. I feel very robbed of years of my life - of years of my reality.

Personally, I believe I would be better equipped to recover if it had been a shorter A, even if it included limerance, ILY, etc. That's just the way I "work", or recognition of my coping strengths and limits. To look back at a distinct "period" in our M when it was all f'd up is something I can handle.... it's looking at being lied to for the ENTIRE M that sends me into the abyss of deep trauma.

In a weird way, I can cope with the early sex better than other parts of the A. I can see that point in our M and the issues/stresses...I KNEW he had his head up his a** during that period (hence all my nagging about IC). If this had been a "one and done" I'd give our M a 90%+ chance of surviving. What I can NOT wrap my head around is nearly 2 decades of lying before the sex began, or continuing the PA for the years beyond that first time, or pursuing her for "friendship" after he supposedly had an "epiphany" to stop the PA. Basically, I cannot wrap my head around the deceit and sex for ALL the years of our M, esp those I thought were "good".

Svon posted 11/5/2018 17:18 PM

GMC94, I think you misunderstood me. I absolutely would have preferred my husband divorce me when he started the affair too. Given that he did not and we built a huge life and family together as it carried on it does hurt less NOW knowing he never cared about her in such a way as to entertain the idea of leaving me for her. That’s what I meant. I can only deal the present. If I found out and thought he was struggling to choose it would have hurt even worse if that is possible. On the other hand, he wouldn’t have struggled for long as I would have filed for divorce right away. I would have no patience for the pick me dance. And don’t get me wrong, we are trying to stay married, but the future is still very uncertain. He does understand the unbelievable pain he has caused and realizes that it will take a long time for me to heal with or without Him. He is willing to stick around and be kind waiting and hoping for the outcome he wants .

hopeandhealing posted 11/5/2018 19:41 PM

I feel the same as you two ladies, Svon and gmc. Had I discovered the As in the midst of them and there had been any sort of fog, I would not have done the pick me dance, no way...despite how much I love to dance, that is not on my dance card, nor will it ever be.

I too would have preferred he divorce me rather than cheat on me, but it was not his intent to lose me as his spouse/life partner. He was not confused on with whom he wanted to spend his life, who he considered his family. His APs were not in any way meaningful to him beyond their assistance in getting him off. Selfish thinking, narcissistic traits with a huge compartmentalizing factor.

We had a MC session today and I was super sad/emotional (busy weekend, lack of sleep, time of the month compounding). MC asked and I said I was just going through a sad valley, feeling very disappointed that the person I chose as my life partner could, of his own volition, choose to harm me and cause me all the pain he has. Some days I am just sad that we will never have a story without this pain, it will walk beside us (hopefully behind us) forever. She asked if I though I would ever be able to move forward with this more in the rear view mirror. WH said "I have caused this pain for Hope and the last thing I want her to do is spend the rest of her days unhappy. If I will forever make her unhappy, then as much as I don't want to lose her, I might have to and it is of my making".

It's not at all what I want and he knows that, but I sure hate the damn dips in the roller coaster. He is being patient and has said he will be here until I tell him otherwise, never in my life did I think I would be in such a situation. You just never truly know.

Wishing us all on this board happiness and peace.

Svon posted 11/5/2018 21:00 PM

Hopeandhealing, I so get that. I hate that no matter what, this is a part of my life story. A pain that will never completely subside. Sometimes I hate him for it. But, a wise friend of mine who was left by her husband for the other woman reminded me that the pain will be there with or without him. Walking out on this marriage and tearing apart this family (even if he is the responsible party) will not erase this pain. I have to think longterm and what will make me the happiest in the end. What’s done is done. Maybe If I was younger or had any desire to find someone new I would feel differently, but at my age I want comfort and stability. I want financial freedom. I want to rock grand babies. I have no desire to “start over”. Leaving him even to live alone gets me what? .... all I can come up with is pride. Pride can get lonely and really isn’t all that healing. My mom suggested I imagine getting sick or in need of care and asked who I would want to be by my side. Oddly, even now, it’s him. He nursed me through 2 big surgeries diring his affair as well as supported me through some heavy family drama. That was real too. I understand the feelings of our lives being “lies” and pictures being triggers. I feel that way sometimes too, but then I remind myself that it legitimizes the affair. If my life was a lie then it means whatever he shared with her was the real deal? F that! IF it was so real where is she now? And if it was so real how could he have hidden it so long? He was not out late. He always came home. In fact: he was home so much I often had wished he would find “friends”. Nope, I was the real deal. His family was the real deal. She was a distraction, playground equipment for a broken man with no morals or boundaries.

[This message edited by Svon at 9:05 PM, November 5th (Monday)]

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