Return to Forum List

Return to Divorce/Separation® > Divorce/Separation

You are not logged in. Login here or register.

Claim of parental alienation?

Pages: 1 · 2

minniegal posted 2/20/2018 13:04 PM

Our background - Separated in 2014. Agreements for custody in place since summer 2015. At the time of separation boys were 12 and 16. Currently they are 16 and 20.

Joint custody, with primary residence with me and one evening a week (no overnight) and EOW with dad. He's never asked for more and for the past two years has not shown for half of his weeknight visits and missed weekends about 1/3 of the time...maybe more. The cancellations are almost always dads choice and were not due to arguments/relationship issues but because either he or the boys had made other plans. I'm never notified of changes - he just doesn't show up. He spent two weeks at Christmas in Mexico and notified the boys on the 21st that he was leaving the next day.

He was slack in sticking to a "schedule" right from the get-go when we separated. Whenever I tried to discuss it early on and asked for notice etc. I was accused of trying to control him. Whatever. So it's been an ongoing issue that I've just tried to ignore knowing the boys are older and are figuring out what works for them on their own. As long as they were fine with it I just bit my tongue and tried to roll with the lack of notice.

His dad lives with his girlfriend since 2015 (she's been around "publicly" since separation :rolleyes:) and her young child. No dad in the picture for her child so she's there full-time. DS finds the kid annoying (what does a teenager have in common with a 5yo?) but really really can't stand the gf. Says she's loud and annoying and doesn't let him spend time with his dad on his own. She calls them a "blended family" so they have to spend all their time together.

Something has also seemed "off" a bit lately as DS has been coming up with excuses to not spend as many weekends at his dads and last month asked if he could go back to see his therapist. He hasn't been to the therapist in over a year.

He's supposed to be home by 5 last night. I text him around 5:30 (it's raining heavily so I think they just might be stuck somewhere) and he says they haven't left yet - something's going on and he'll text me in a bit. I text him again at 7 (just "you ok?") and he answers that they are heading out and he'll tell me all about it when he's home.

It all spilled out when he got home. GF went on a rant and was screaming at him that he wasn't going to be home at 5 - that he'll leave when she says he can leave. She's tired of his "manipulating, controlling b of a mother and is building a case against her for all the crap she's had to put up with over the years". Apparently I'm a sociopath and have manipulated him and his brother and have been determined to stop any relationship they have with their dad. It's a clear case of parental alienation! He needs a better psychologist that understands this and will come to court and stand up for the victims! She gave him names of who she'll approve for his therapy. She listed out the list of all my characteristics that make me a clinical sociopath and how I am dangerous for him to be around. His dad will be back in court once she has all her notes together for a case of parental alienation.

He tells me she's been badmouthing me for months. Sometimes his dad joins in and sometimes he just sits there and says nothing. He said last night his dad just sat and nodded. She followed him upstairs where he was packing his bag and just yelled and yelled. Dad followed later and said that the judge will deal with me. DS is freaking out. I asked if his dad has been asking for more time or for him to live with him (it's an hour away) but he said no. That he would never live there because it's away from his friends and school and he couldn't stand his gf for more than a couple of days at most.

But if she' on this tangent then I know I'll have to prepare for court. What do I even do at this point? I want to protect DS from further horror shows like that but....I don't know. If he was 6 I would be at my lawyers office today - but he's 16. He has a relationship with his father - there is no alienation?!

undertherug posted 2/20/2018 13:17 PM

It sounds like the GF has totally gone off the rails. I agree your son needs some IC (not with the "counselor" the GF suggests) about how he wants to navigate this mess. I sincerely doubt she can prove parental alienation and question whether any reputable attorney would touch this case at all. If there is any "parental alienation" involved, it appears to be on the GF's part. She is attempting to alienate you from your son. I would recommend running it by an attorney just to make you feel better but I really don't think this lunatic has a leg to stand on.

NiceGuySF posted 2/20/2018 13:47 PM

Ugh, sorry you have to deal with crazy GF.

If this goes somewhere (with your attorney) be sure to have them petition for xwh to pay your attorney fees, as this is clearly a frivolous claim. Also, it would be good to emphasize how inappropriate it is for GF/WH have these discussion in front of your DS.

I'm pretty sure the courts/lawyers can smell crazy... so I'm not sure if this will get far.

It's most important to support DS16 and make sure he's able to cope, stand up for his boundaries, and ensure that while he has to deal with this when he is with his father, none of it is his fault.

Also, at this point, he probably has a strong say in where/when he wants to spend his time.

Phoenix1 posted 2/20/2018 14:12 PM

It sounds like the GF has totally gone off the rails.


If there is any "parental alienation" involved, it appears to be on the GF's part. She is attempting to alienate you from your son.

Double yep!! She's the GIRLFRIEND and she truly thinks she has ANY say in this??? Wait a minute while I

If she does not cease her lunatic tirades, I would definitely run it by an attorney and see if they will write a letter with a threat of going after HER for alienation and creating a hostile environment for your DS which is interfering with his relationship with his father. Maybe if she sees something from an attorney she will tone down and realize she is barking up the wrong tree. Maybe...

I really don't think this lunatic has a leg to stand on.

Legally, she doesn't. She holds no legal standing whatsoever as a live-in GIRLFRIEND. Any such claims would have to come from your XH, and if he is just sitting there passively while she is ranting I would be surprised if he actually DOES anything...legally...or if an attorney would actually take such a weak case.

asked if he could go back to see his therapist

What this is telling me, as an outsider looking in, is that he is looking for tools to handle this himself without involving you. He obviously WANTS a relationship with his dad, but the cray cray GF is interfering and he is not sure how to handle it on his own. Get him into the therapist and be there to support him every step of the way.

What the nutjob GF doesn't appear to understand is that at 16, your DS can make his own decisions regarding visitation and, if she becomes too toxic, he may end up not going all together. Or, perhaps ask his father to just meet him somewhere for the alone time with him that he obviously wants but she won't let them have. This nut doesn't seem to understand that aside from no legal standing as a shack-up paramour, SHE can't dictate anything about visitation with your 16-yr old DS either! Even less so than his actual, um, PARENTS!

Lordy. I'm sorry you, and especially your DS, have to deal with this nutbag. She sounds like just an absolute gem to be around! *sarcasm*

But talk to your attorney if for no other reason than to arm yourself with knowledge. You may be able to share that knowledge with your DS as well to help him navigate this toxic river.

Catwoman posted 2/20/2018 14:21 PM

Any claim of alienation would have to come from the parent--she has no legal standing where your DS is concerned. It sounds like your ex probably wouldn't take action on his own, so I'd just wait this out and see if legal action is actually forthcoming (the smart money says no).

BUT, I do agree with your DS getting back into therapy and learning tools to cope with this situation.

She sounds like a charming piece of work.


shakentocore posted 2/20/2018 15:11 PM

She is dadís girlfriend. She cannot file a case / motion in court and has no say in his therapist. Ask your son if he is happy with his current therapist and if he is thatís all that matters.

Your son is getting to the age where he can vote with his feet. Iím not sure how he comes home from dadís but make sure he knows you will pick him up if his dad refuses to give him a ride.

GF sounds controlling and cray-cray.

lieshurt posted 2/20/2018 15:15 PM

GF went on a rant and was screaming at him that he wasn't going to be home at 5 - that he'll leave when she says he can leave. She's tired of his "manipulating, controlling b of a mother and is building a case against her for all the crap she's had to put up with over the years".

Excuse me while I say...fuck that bitch.

***Posting as a member, of course***

minniegal posted 2/20/2018 15:29 PM

She is totally loony - but a very aggressive loony.

Dad signs whatever she puts in front of him so if she says he's going to court he'll go along with it. She thinks all lawyers are money-hungry idiots and she is sooo much smarter than all of them. She's also smarter than all the psychologist's...unless they agree with her!

She has been in court since 2003 suing a past employer over a "hostile work environment". SINCE 2003 - every time a decision comes back she appeals and starts a new motion. Her workmates didn't like her and wouldn't partner with her on projects in 2001 - so she's been suing ever since. I've read through a lot of the court record as it's all public.
A very angry and bitter person. (Karma laughed when stbx found her to hook up with!)

Therapist just called and he had a spot open up this evening so we'll head over soon. Thank goodness!

[This message edited by minniegal at 3:34 PM, February 20th (Tuesday)]

Catwoman posted 2/20/2018 15:33 PM

He can sign whatever she puts in front of him, but it will have to be him to defend the motion, not her. They're not even married, so I am fairly certain she has no legal standing and may not be able to give testimony (but check with your attorney first).

At 16, your son is the age where his opinion would matter.

She sounds unbalanced.


MadOldBat posted 2/20/2018 16:12 PM

Crikey....... I'm so sorry that you and your son are suddenly facing this bollocks Minnie.

Has this only recently become a problem?

Could it possibly be a case of "smoke and mirrors"?
Perhaps all is not peachy in unicorn land, and batshit-GF is fabricating a situation where you are the baddie - so that she and your X have to unite and fight the good fight?

Hoping that the therapy tonight helps your DS to cope.

Hugs and strength to you and DS.

MOB xxx

[This message edited by MadOldBat at 4:13 PM, February 20th, 2018 (Tuesday)]

Chrysalis123 posted 2/20/2018 17:32 PM

Posting as a member.

I hope your son secretly records one of the rants. Then the alienating will be very obvious for all, once he shares it with his therapist. And you would not need to be involved at all.

I really like your son. He has gumption...just like his mom.

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 5:34 PM, February 20th (Tuesday)]

minniegal posted 2/20/2018 19:04 PM

Just back from the therapist -

DS spent the entire hour venting - I wasn't in the room so he shared with me afterwards.

He's already feeling better and is working through how he is going to deal with this. He wants to take control of the situation and spell out for his dad exactly how he feels about this nutso gf. Therapist told him not to direct his anger at her - she doesn't deserve it and is not entitled to see him vulnerable. He needs to sit with his dad on his own and spell it out. It's time to let dad know how he feels about his gf and her constant interference in their relationship and bashing of his mum.

He walked out of the office tonight feeling quite confident.

Pretty awesome kid - just wish his dad could see that and protect him like a real parent.

Shockedmom posted 2/20/2018 21:25 PM

Your son has a great therapist. She gave him permission to be in charge of his own life and he is running with it!

As for the crazy GF, is your ex paying for CS? It seems like she may have an ulterior motive such as more funds available for her to enjoy. She has clearly gone off the rails and your ex is allowing her to abuse your son by bad mouthing his mother.

sparkysable posted 2/21/2018 10:40 AM

I was just going to ask about CS. Does XWH pay you for CS? If so, I'm betting she doesn't like the loss of her own personal spending money, and is looking for a way out of paying it.

GF went on a rant and was screaming at him that he wasn't going to be home at 5 - that he'll leave when she says he can leave.
Excuse the fuck out of me? Who does she think she is?? Oh hell no.

She's just burning her bridge with your DS.

Minnesota posted 2/21/2018 11:38 AM

Like MOB said,

"CRIKEY!" (I'm going to have to start using that more.)

The thing that most have alluded to is that your son CAN vote with his feet and he needs to explain to his dad that he loves him and wants to spend time with him and have that relationship with him, but not at the expense of being abused and controlled and manipulated by GF. (Maybe not exactly those words- but maybe) When she gets her shit together and treats people with respect, he might choose to come over again.

Does DS Drive himself?

honesttoafault posted 2/21/2018 20:00 PM

I'm so sorry!! I got so upset for you and your son reading this.

I would talk to your attorney about what you can do about this verbal abuse. Your son may need a VAR the next time he goes to his father's and possibly even tell the gf that he is going to record her when she is going off on a rant like that.

I'm also angry at your xWH for just sitting there and saying nothing. I agree with the other posters that gf is probably trying to get xWH to pay less child support or has some other crazy motive.

I'm glad that he was able to see his therapist.

rambler posted 2/21/2018 20:26 PM

Usually at 16 the court will allow him to make his own decisions.

I think your son should not meet his dad alone. Kids should not confront a parent.

Can your x meet with with your son and his IC.

I will also tell the x that his gf is not his mother. Tell him to rope her in now.

deena04 posted 2/21/2018 22:23 PM

Can you file a no contact order on the girlfriend? She is harming your child, and the court may agree that she should not be allowed around your child. That would make Dad choose really fastÖ Sadly, be prepared for him not to choose your son.

minniegal posted 2/22/2018 08:35 AM

She is harming your child, and the court may agree that she should not be allowed around your child. That would make Dad choose really fastÖ

This is why Ds hasn't stood up and spoken his mind until now (and older Ds now just avoids going to his dad's place). STBX has already chosen her above anyone else. He's dropped friends that said they didn't like her to the point now that he no longer has any of his own friends prior to meeting her. One of his sisters no longer sees him - Ds just told me this after this weekend. He hasn't seen his cousins or aunt in two years since stbx's sister stopped visiting and it's all to do with this nutso gf. DS is afraid his dad will cut him off like he's cut everyone else off.

I'm afraid of doing anything to intervene in case she will use my actions/words to "build their case" of parental alienation. So all I can do is wait for ds to be ready...

Phoenix1 posted 2/22/2018 14:07 PM

As hard as it is to just stand by and watch the train wreck, that's about all you can do right now. Your DS is old enough to make up his own mind, and he apparently has a great therapist to help him. Let the therapist do his/her thing and just support your DS with whatever he chooses. He may be scared his dad will choose GF over him and DS will lose dad as a result, but you can let him know that no matter what happens on that front YOU will always be there for him.

My kids dropped their father and want nothing to do with him at.all. My youngest was 16 when she made the initial decision, but was still somewhat hopeful her father would get his head out of his ass and be the father to her he once was (she was daddy's little girl). It all came to a head when she was 18. She confronted him about everything hoping for a heartfelt apology from him. That one simple gesture (the apology) would have made all the difference, but Xhole didn't know that. Instead of an apology, she got the good ol' "this is between your mother and me." She lost it because he couldn't even apologize for destroying the family unit (which very much affected her which he doesn't seem to realize, or care). She told him, literally, to fuck off and drove away (they had met up for dinner at a restaurant). She came home, visibly shaking in anger, told me what happened, and broke down and cried in my arms for a good hour. It broke my heart for her, and made me want to put a bullet between Xhole's eyes for doing that to his own child. But she knew, without any doubt, that even though her father failed her, I would never do so. We are very close to this day and she hasn't talked to her father in any way, shape, or form, in almost two years (she only broke radio silence in 2016 to let him know she got married, after the fact, just to rub it in his face).

So my point is, just continue to be there for your DS, regardless of how he chooses to deal with his father and the nutjob GF. It may completely go off the rails at some point, but there is nothing you can really do other than offer him support.

This shit is hard, and I'm sorry you are being put in this horrific position.

However, DO keep documenting all behavior of GF and XWH just in case you do end up in court.

ETA: I should also note that in our D, when youngest DD was 16, DD specifically told me she wanted me to have full custody and she (DD) wanted to determine if/when there would be any visitation. So, in other words, no visitation schedule. I put that in the documents and the magistrate (and ultimately the judge) didn't bat an eye once he realized she was 16. If you DO end up in court, ask your DS if this is what he would like and request it take place (at least for the visitation component). Age DOES make a difference in the eyes of the court!

[This message edited by Phoenix1 at 2:11 PM, February 22nd (Thursday)]

Pages: 1 · 2

Return to Forum List

Return to Divorce/Separation

© 2002-2018 ®. All Rights Reserved.     Privacy Policy