SurvivingInfidelity.com® > Wayward Side

CausedChaos posted 7/7/2018 19:23 PM

Basically I have been doing everything wrong since D-Day. This has been due in part to trying to protect my own butt, foolishness, and fear. Now BS knows everything and is, obviously, super mad. I am trying now to do things the way every piece of affair recovery literature says. But BS does not want to do any work toward fixing our marriage. He says that I "dug this hole on [my] own and now [I] have to dig [my] own way out."

He has demanded that I come up with a way to physically prove my fidelity. He will not give one ounce of blind trust. And yes he is being literal. Every idea I have come up with so far, he has shredded to pieces. And any time he comes up with an idea that I don't, he no longer wants it. For example, he told me that if I had quit my job (where OP still works) he would have taken that as proof of my fidelity. So I said, ok I'll quit! And he said no because I didn't think of it on my own it no longer holds value. So I'm back to square one with no ideas.

While I have made many many mistakes, one thing I haven't done is gone back to OP. He and I are truly and completely done. I am desperate to save my marriage. Does anyone have any ideas?

FoenixRising posted 7/7/2018 20:04 PM

Hey sorry you’re here. Worst club ever.

1- still quit your job. It’s gut wrenching for your BS to know that you’re there every day with AP. Stay NC. Whether the A is finished, contact with him is not healthy.

2- look into yourself. Start IC to assess what inside you made/makes you capable of such betrayal.

3- find healthy ways to project your energy. Hobbies, exercise, meditation. The road you’re on is and will be hard. You will need to find healthy ways to release during this time. Be kind to yourself.

4- work on healing yourself. You are only responsible for your own choices and you’re own healing. Work on you and hope that as you do so, bs does the same and sees your progress. In the mean time as bs speaks, listen. Don’t react. Listen.

Start there. Hugs.

Darkness Falls posted 7/7/2018 20:33 PM

For example, he told me that if I had quit my job (where OP still works) he would have taken that as proof of my fidelity.

Gently, I hope you see this for the nonsensical statement that it is. Quitting your job before he brought it up would have been no proof of fidelity. I have NO DOUBT that he is simply using that example as a way to mess with your head seeing as he is undoubtedly in so much pain and turmoil.

CausedChaos posted 7/7/2018 20:43 PM

I am seeing IC. We were seeing CC but then he chose to stop going because I had lied to him and her about all the details of the affair. So I am there alone now.

I have a job interview on Weds so I hope to be getting out of there soon. OP and I avoid each other like our lives depend on it (my BS told his BS).
If I had quit my job, he would have taken it as a grand gesture of my loyalty to him and then I couldn't physically be unfaithful with OP there any more. But he still wants a new idea until I leave my job.

Darkness Falls posted 7/7/2018 20:47 PM

I’m sorry if it appears that I’m trying to argue with you. I do understand the quitting appearing as a grand gesture. But couldn’t you have just seen the AP outside of work if you still wanted to cheat??

CausedChaos posted 7/7/2018 20:57 PM

Thanks Darkness, I know you're not trying to argue. I just felt I needed to clarify.

Foenix, I appreciate your advice too. However, he views those activities as me not "putting forth effort".

So that's why I joined a forum. I am not great at thinking outside of the box and he won't help me. He says he won't "spoon feed" me anymore. And I'm not looking for easy answers, I'm just so out of ideas!

EvolvingSoul posted 7/7/2018 21:35 PM

Hi there CausedChaos,

Welcome to SI. Here you can receive support and advice from folks who have been right where you are.

We were seeing CC but then he chose to stop going because I had lied to him and her about all the details of the affair.

FoenixRising posted 7/7/2018 22:31 PM

It doesn’t matter what he views those efforts. Right now, you need to heal you and get your head on straight. And he needs to heal him and get his head on straight. Neither of you can depend on each other in order to do that. It’s an individual recover and that the hope is that you can come together in the journey and build a healthier M. Your old M is dead. This is new. Maybe he’ll never forgive you and never be able to move on but Maybe that’s not the case. You can’t move on together until you take ownership of your choices and learn about how you got to where you were able to sacrifice your morals and integrity and commit that level of betrayal. Only through time and personal reflection and rebuild will you ever prove yourself to be a safe partner again. There is nothing that your BS can say, demand or ask for that makes you safe for him right now. And he’s not looking st it from a wayward side. He’s looking at it as a demolished, broken hearted, disorientated betrayed man who had no choice in his current feelings and is acting and saying things right now bc he Is trying to process it all too. He needs time. This seems quite fresh. Keep going to IC and listening to him but you must self care. You will not get past this if you don’t. It sucks. It’s hard. It’s messy. It’s mindblowing but it’s nothing compared to what they are feeling. What OUR choices caused them to feel. We’ve hurt them so badly and we can’t fix it. It takes an incredibly amount of time in this process and it always starts with identifying ourselves. This, to some, seems selfish but we are selfish. That’s why we cheated. In order to grow past this, we must look into our selves and learn or we’ll never move forward or have clear enough vision to actually see our BS and into their pain and properly repent with the idea of reconciling. Some take longer than others. I’m 8 post d day and I’m still in self recovery and still struggle. Some days are better than others. None are as bad as the first 3 months post d day but every day I get stronger. You will too. Good luck.

CausedChaos posted 7/8/2018 05:55 AM

Hi Evolvingsoul,

Initial D-Day was late Feb. Complete discloser wasn't until about 6weeks ago in May. (I told you I did everything wrong in the beginning )

I'm not trying to downplay his anger. He has a right to it. What I did was so incredibly wrong. I have hurt the person I love most in the world and this grieves me. But I fear his anger is leading him to rash decisions. I don't want a divorce if this can be saved. I want to give him a physical proof of fidelity. He also wants to know how I'm going to make this up to him. Another question I don't know how to answer (so if you have any ideas I'd love to hear those too). I want to give him this comfort to show that I really truly want to save us.

islesguy posted 7/8/2018 07:53 AM

CausedChaos,

I don't think you can prove fidelity but you can prove yourself to be someone who does what you say you are going to do. My BS has suffered so much more that she should have because I have not be true to my word and broke promises again and again and failed on many many opportunities where I should have taken advantage of them to prove myself. My job is still very much a trigger to my BS and I haven't left it because I believe that another job would actually cause more problems as I might have the opportunity to work from home as I do now but if the AP were still working there, that would completely change everything and I would have a different opinion on continuing to work there.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 7/8/2018 08:25 AM

Hello and welcome.

Have you read any books yet? A great place to start is “How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair” by Linda J. Macdonald and “Not Just Friends” by Shirley Glass. These two books will provide you a platform in which to get your bearings and continue to climb out of that hole.

What are you doing right now to at least attempt to show your fidelity? Are you transparent? Have you provided passwords to emails, social media, and your phone? Do you keep him updated on your whereabouts via texts and/or pins photos and tracking? Do you text him throughout your workday with updates on how the day is going and showing him interest in how his is going?

I believe it’s very common for a BS to look for the grand gesture. Unfortunately, the reality is that there will never be one big enough to take away his pain. The answer to that is time and consistency.

Recovering and reconciling from infidelity has multiple layers. You have to work on why you have allowed yourself to go down this path. You will have to dig deeply and work through parts of you that have been buried. You will have to face your demons. At the same time, you need to work on becoming a safe partner to your BH. In part this is done on your work on you, but it’s also done through a lot of communication and demonstration of love with him.

You will have to be willing to become vulnerable and show him your soft underbelly without him having to wrangle it out of you. He needs you to be the one to come to him and talk about this without prompting. He will need you to share with him an understanding of the pain you have caused. He will need to know that you think about this as much as he does and that he isn’t alone because I can guarantee this pain consumes him daily.

Eventually he will be responsible for his own healing, but in the early stages there is a lot you can do to help ease some of that pain. When he does talk to you about his pain, be sure to actively listen rather than get defensive. He needs to know you hear him.

Be patient with the process. This isn’t going to be an easy road. You will days that seem hopeless and days that seem hopeful. It takes 2-5 years to recover.

Hang in there. You will find you are stronger than you ever imagined if you stick with it.

Candyman66 posted 7/8/2018 08:46 AM

I would recommend complete and total transparency!! Let your husband have ALL of your passwords AND tell him about all accounts! No games with "chat" features. Never take your phone into the bathroom.

Find the 5 love languages and talk to your husband about HIS love language and how YOU can "talk" it. Love languages are how we try to show and receive love messages. Example;if you husband's love language is service (doing things for spouse) and yours is "words of praise" (flattery) then you need to "listen" to when he is doing things for you he is SHOWING HIS love for you. If you do things for him then he can SEE that you love him.

If you can up the "In the bedroom aspects" without triggering him than that helps show how much you love him. Did you did ANYTHING sexual for your AP (affair partner) that you haven't done for your husband THAT is a HUGE stumbling point for your husband and probably will need to be "fixed" however you can.

Write 2 timelines of the affair, one the "G" rated of ALL the times and locations and accompanying feelings and the "X" rated one with ALL the sexual details (MAKE sure you label the envelopes CORRECTLY).

YOU bring up the affair to discuss with him. This part is very hard because we all know that that hurts and is a subject that YOU wish would go away. Believe me you don't wish that NEAR as much as your HUSBAND does BUT it's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN for years!! Be PROACTIVE not reactive. Take the initiative DON'T WAIT FOR HIM!!! Reach out and try to hold his hand, APOLOGISE... A LOT!!! BE specific in what you are sorry for, just saying I'm sorry is not enough be specific in what you are apologising for!!

Go to IC (Individual Counseling) and let your husband know. This is a marathon NOT a sprint. The average timeline for recovery is 2 to 5 YEARS!!! READ the healing library (top of the page to the left, the yellow area and follow the advice there. There is a letter in the healing library called "Joseph's letter" it will explain WHY details and transparency matter. Show (and tell when possible) your husband that you are ACTIVELY trying to find out WHY you did this so you can FIX IT and make yourself safe for you marriage. YOU have to fix YOURSELF and sadly he will have to fix himself then together the two of you can try to fix the marriage.

If he asks questions DO NOT GET DEFENSIVE!!! BE HONEST NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT HURTS!!! do not TRY TO MINIMISE ANYTHING ABOUT THE AFFAIR... own your shit!!!

I'm sure that when the weekend is over you will get alot more suggestions.

May you and your husband find peace.

Root posted 7/8/2018 08:48 AM

I know you’d like an idea, something you could do to prove you are trustworthy....now. It doesn’t exist. Unless he is with you 24/7 you can cheat. The only way is to consistently be a trustworthy person and then maybe...maybe in years he will believe you.

thatwilldo posted 7/8/2018 11:13 AM

Welcome to SI. You've come to the right place. You've gotten lots of good advice. I think you should definitely read those two books recommended by WalkingOnEggshells. Also, Root is right. It will take years of consistency to earn back trust.

You wrote this:

Basically I have been doing everything wrong since D-Day. This has been due in part to trying to protect my own butt, foolishness, and fear. Now BS knows everything and is, obviously, super mad.

I think you would do well to re-frame your thinking about your husband's response to you. Of course, he is mad, but more than anything he's hurt. You will need to try to understand the many ways you've hurt him and let him know that you understand.

I spent many years not understanding that my BS was terribly hurt. I used "He'll just be mad if he knows." to keep from telling him things that he had every right to know. In that way, I stole from him his choice to make informed decisions about his life.

Be brave and keep telling the truth.

QuietDan posted 7/8/2018 14:41 PM

A few ideas come to mind.
Total transparency with all electronic devices. Any and all screens in easy view and positioned for any casual glance or observation.
I pretty much ended internet social activities for close to 5 years.
Accountability/verifiable time and location. Call him to let him know when you leave work. Any stops, time waiting on a train. Account fo all activities. Call, leave messages to cover routine and non routine location, activities, time windows. Find ways and opportunities for mutually recognized 3rd party chaperones to be with you as independent observers. No one but you need to know the real reason. At the very least, it will provide some secondary people for your spouse to inquire about and verify your activities.

smokenfire posted 7/8/2018 16:18 PM

This is one of the greatest pit falls of making the bad choice to have an affair. Your BS CAN prove you are having an affair, but it is nearly impossible to prove you are NOT doing something. It's not the different then trying to prove you don't case a shadow....

Your BS is your best source for ideas and information regarding what he/she needs. What has he requested? It's a moot point to discuss what you COULD have done, because you don't have a time machine. If he/she needs to talk about his feelings (ie I feel sad you didn't value me enough to quit your job on your own) that's a whole different matter.

What has he requested as proof from you? What have you done with those requests? Are there things you have yet to do?

Until you get under what caused all this in yourself and what caused you to lie about it for so long, nothing will change. Continue to dig and seek and share what you find with your BS. There is no room for pride in this process.

I find when facing similar things I remind myself that if I was big enough to do something, I need to be big enough to own what I did, good bad or indifferent.

CausedChaos posted 7/9/2018 21:24 PM

I have read "Not just friends". I have also been reading "Unfaithful" by Gary and Mona Shriver and "I cheated: Affair recovery advice for when you have been unfaithful" by Savannah Ellis. I have ordered a few others. Yes, he has the user names and passwords to everything I have. I tell him any time I see OP at work (just from walking in the hallways or whatever). There is a GPS tracker program on my phone so he knows where I am at all times. I do not hide my phone, it's his whenever he wants to take it. I text him whenever I will be late and when I am having my lunch break.

I would like to note that BH was trying to work on our marriage after the initial revelation. But as info trickled out and more secrets came to light after I said "that was all", he has been too angry. He wants me to do more in proving that I want this marriage. I think that once I come up with and perform the tasks he wants and make him feel that I truly will not cheat on him again, then he will rejoin me in trying to fix our relationship.

He won't give me ideas because he wants ME to find my own answers. It would be proof that I am trying. But essentially he wants me to physically prove my fidelity, find a great idea to provide restitution for years of deceit, restore his ego and get a new job&car (most of encounters with OP occurred in my car). I am working on finding a new job. We haven't completely agreed on what car to get but we've got the choices narrowed down to two. I don't want to buy a new car until I have a new job since quitting is still on the table.

For his ego, he doesn't believe anything I say. He rejects my compliments like he rejects my little displays of kindness (i.e. getting him flowers or candy etc). One thing I read told me to "accept the rejection". SO I will keep trying with these types of things. It will be a long time before he accepts. I understand why and will not give up. I have never done anything for OP that I haven't done for my husband. Any "no-no"s in the bedroom applied to both men. But even knowing that, OP's ghost haunts our bedroom. I am only thinking about BH while BH is thinking about OP. I try and tell him that I am not thinking about OP (cuz i'm not) but my words are tainted from all the lying I've already done. I think I got off topic. Sorry.

But seriously, any ideas for restitution and fidelity, lemme know.

Candyman66 posted 7/9/2018 22:32 PM

Offer him a polygraph test (lie detector) to prove you have finnally told the truth.

Jorge posted 7/10/2018 00:26 AM

Just so that you know, I believe you are on track. The outcome is out of your hands. Your willingness and accountability are on point so far.

One positive aspect of his demands is that he's actually making them, which means they are attainable if you have the will. I presume you know this already, but I'll say it anyway as a man.

Your AP's ghostly presence will reside in your husband's bedroom for years, so please understand this uncomfortable reality is what the marriage will be for an undetermined length.

Your words of you not thinking about him are nice, but it's what you did with him that has cast this permanent shadow in your husband's mind. Those images can't be undone. They can only be eased by quitting your job and selling the car, for starters.

If you don't know his love language get it quickly. Words don't do it for me. In fact they irritate me, as I would think I'm being manipulated or felt sorry for. Being felt sorry for INFURIATES me. Not sure why. But that's me not him.

Nonetheless, wouldn't be bad idea to find out such words don't sit well with him. To be hones, I believe 95% of men are okay with it. I'm one of the 5% its not okay with. Chances are he's in the majority, but it doesn't hurt to feel it out.

Root posted 7/10/2018 16:47 PM

I offered to put a gps tracker on my car and to carry a voice activated recorder with me at all times. Key logger on the computer, find my phone, snap chats every 5 minutes?? BH however wanted grand gestures but they were things that I couldn't do. At the time I would have needed a handful of pills, washed down with a lot of booze to humiliate myself to that level. I should have done whatever he wanted but at the time pride had a vice grip on me. I feel so stupid now.

[This message edited by Root at 4:47 PM, July 10th (Tuesday)]