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Shattered & Heartbroken

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SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 14:49 PM

Then you won't ever be able to trust her. She can do anything, hide the evidence until you find out, and tell you later that she doesn't remember.

This is not a new concept to me. You think I don't realize that?
You think ANY of us can trust wholeheartedly after being betrayed?
FFS people, I literally had DDay 2 last night. What do you want me to say? You're all right and correct.
You all said she definitely had a PA and you were totally right all along. Lemme pat your backs for ya.

Or better yet, let me just open wide so you can skullfuck me while you're at it.
I'll even tickle the nads a bit while I pat your back

SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 14:51 PM

At this point, SI should consider changing the name to SurvivingOnlineHostility.

Lp0725 posted 5/21/2019 15:00 PM

I'm so sorry you're feeling attacked, I know hearing all this is only adding to your pain. For what it's worth, I think you're doing great. No one can handle everything perfectly. You're only human. Maybe take a step back for a few days just to process all the horrible stuff you've just uncovered. Is it possible for you get away for a few days? Maybe stay with a friend or family member, just a momentary escape until you're ready to deal with the reality of your situation? The most important thing is to take care of yourself right now. You're in pain and not thinking clearly. I think you need to take a step back for the moment.


numb&dumb posted 5/21/2019 15:06 PM

SaddestDad- I am sorry you found this out. It is like the closest thing to a worse fear (another A) we all have, yet at the same time is somehow worse.

FWIW My W fought me for years that her A was just a ONS and not an EA. She tried so very hard to ignore or minimize that fact. It was hell for me. I was aghast at my W ability to lie to and delude herself into believing what she really wanted to believe. To this day I can't mentally relate to how someone does that. You can't look at your W from your point of view. It will never make sense because none of this shit makes sense.

Please be kind to yourself. Take some time, space or whatever feels better living than in your head for a few days. Just be mindful of the new situation, but continue to put one foot in front of the other. I know that sounds glib, but really it is the best thing I can offer to you right now. When you are in Hell you just have to keep moving.

Sorry I did not read any of the recent responses. I can tell you are hurting and wanted you to know that you were heard.

At some point you have to figure out what you want to do with this new information, but that doesn't have to be today. Take that time and mourn the R you thought you had. Keep yourself as sane as you can manage. Just please be kind to yourself and don't do anything you might regret later on. BTDT.

We will be here when you need us. Take what you need and leave the rest.

I really truly hope this is the last of TT and the start of an upswing. Wherever that takes you.

Odonna posted 5/21/2019 15:07 PM

SD,

People get invested in your story and want to protect you and help you. But the messages can be too blunt at times to achieve this and the OP feels attacked. I donít read the recent posts here as ďhostileĒ but you are the one living this horror, and I can see you might take some messages that way given your emotional state at the moment.

Just breathe, and care for yourself and your kids.

Also, please think about something: we only know your wife from your words, and through your eyes. And I confess I do not like her much from what you have said about her, which leads me to the conclusion that YOU really do not like her much. So, leaving the infidelity aside, is this the person you want for your life partner? Is the infidelity leading you to uncover conclusions you had already come to about her? Think about it.

And donít go away; even harsh and blunt comments come from well-intentioned people, and sometimes they are the ones we really need because we do not want to face the truth at their core. SI really makes people grow in unexpected ways. Donít give up!

[This message edited by Odonna at 3:10 PM, May 21st (Tuesday)]

ChamomileTea posted 5/21/2019 15:22 PM

What happens when you draw a line under the marriage? ..when you analyze your relationship from just the wedding day? Has she been a good wife? Have you been a good husband? Do you reach agreement regarding most topics on daily life? Do you enjoy spending time together? etc.

I'm old school, I guess. For me, married is married. The vows mean something. Saying them in front of family and friends means something. It's not that I can't understand the kind of commitment people might make to one another before those vows are said or that I don't believe it's wrong to reneg if one makes such promises. I think it's only natural to feel hurt and defrauded if one finds themselves on the receiving end of that kind of betrayal. But the question then becomes "was the marriage itself meaningless?"

For those of us who were sexually betrayed after marriage, there's nothing to put a line under. Our mate said the vows and then cheated. But when the cheating comes first, the wayward has cheated and then said the vows. Does it matter if the vows remain unbroken? Having been on the receiving end of the former, I think it would have mattered to me.

Just rambling, I suppose. Not trying to minimize your pain. It just seems to me that maybe you've got a little something positive to work with, like a tiny beacon of hope in a great big shit storm.

lieshurt posted 5/21/2019 15:29 PM

This is a reminder to everybody that we are here to provide support. Snarky comments and generalizations need to stop, NOW. If you can't manage that, then step away.

Rustylife posted 5/21/2019 15:34 PM

Don't be disheartened SD. You're doing as best as you can given the circumstances. I'm personally invested in your story because so much of your marriage dynamic remind me of the time spent with my XW. Plus you're a fellow New Yorker.

Keep on keeping on. You'll emerge stronger out of this mess whatever the final outcome is.

Rustylife posted 5/21/2019 15:40 PM

I'll agree with Odonna about the lies. It's a mountain of lies that has existed since the day you met. And they continue till you check out old bills and phone records from years back. Just an insane way to live. And then she doesn't remeber. I don't like her at all. Maybe she was in love with the idea of marriage. One of the most baffling cases I've heard of.

xhz700 posted 5/21/2019 15:41 PM

I am sorry if you felt attacked by my comment. What I said was only in an effort to hold your feet to the fire, and help you to hopefully not make the same mistakes that I did. As awful as this feels, watching the slow death of your marriage over the next several years because you refuse to see the situation or your wife for what they truly are is much worse.

Your best chance to get out of this with some semblance of sanity and self-respect is to face this honestly. It doesn't mean that there is a specific action that you have to take, but that you choose that action with all of the cards on the table.

If she did in fact not remember this, the problem isn't any better. Your choices are a wife that has been knowingly lying to you, or someone that was so casual with her behavior, that the fact that she had sex with another man while being married to you doesn't even register as a memory.

I don't generally recommend, but I would suggest a polygraph in this case, and your WW can come up with the money.

SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 16:17 PM

I'm sorry for having gone off on you.

Part of my hurt by this new development is because I had already suspected that there was a PA at some point because it wasn't sitting right with me from the get-go.

Regardless, I am taking all of this seriously. I'm not rugsweeping, but I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater either. I'm trying to find the (un)happy medium.

I honestly don't know how or why, but even with this new information, I don't love her any less. It hurts like I couldn't believe that it was, but Chamomile is 1000% correct that a saving grace is that the PA itself occurred before we were actually married.
Furthermore, in Orthodox Judaism (which, in many ways IS quite misogynistic and chauvinistic), the marriage document is actually the husband vowing to take care of the wife... the other way around isn't even suggested because it's traditionally so outlandish. What's said under the canopy is the reading of said document, along with blessings for the couple.

This, therefore, wasn't just a betrayal. This was a culture shock. Infidelity is even more taboo in Orthodox Judaism than in the secular (or even CATHOLIC) world!

And that, I believe, is part of why my WW was able to drill the memory out of her head.

Odonna, this is my venting space. I'm not coming here to tell you how much I love my wife nor do I post here to talk about what's bright and cheery. This is the place I come to share my fears & frustrations that I'm unable to share with anyone else.

Chamomile, regardless of how horribly she treated me at the beginning (as well as the viciousness that comes out when she feels on the spot), all in all the marriage itself has become something that I would want to have for the rest of my life, as long as she's proving to me that she's becoming better, safer for me, and fully committed to me and us.

Xhz, she legitimately did not remember. She actually just mentioned to me that perhaps she should look into hypnosis to uncover the memories fully. I think it's a great idea.
AFTER that seems to be successful, THEN we can pursue polygraph.

xhz700 posted 5/21/2019 16:20 PM

Xhz, she legitimately did not remember. She actually just mentioned to me that perhaps she should look into hypnosis to uncover the memories fully. I think it's a great idea.
AFTER that seems to be successful, THEN we can pursue polygraph.

As I said, if she's being truthful, the casualness indicated by the fact that she doesn't remember a betrayal of this magnitude is very concerning.

I am not going to tell you how to handle this, it's your life, and you decide what's too much. I am glad that you are figuring a way to navigate it. I think hypnotism and a poly is a reasonable way to go given the situation.

One foot in front of the other.

SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 16:22 PM

Maybe she was in love with the idea of marriage.

Crazily enough, that's exactly what it was!

WW had said those exact words to me at least a week or so ago, as well as on the timeline that (for the most part) seems to be completed until further TT.

SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 16:27 PM

As I said, if she's being truthful, the casualness indicated by the fact that she doesn't remember a betrayal of this magnitude is very concerning.

What I'm trying to explain is that it's NOT casualness in any way at all. She's beside herself and keeps getting into crying fits of frustration that she can't just force the memory to materialize itself.
She's been apologizing not just for the PA during engagement but also for the fact that while I'm struggling to cope, I need to also play the role of amateur shrink to coax the memories out.

k8la posted 5/21/2019 16:33 PM

SD - so sorry that you are going through this, particularly the ongoing assaults on your character by her friend and the influence she allows them to have on her.

If she truly has no memory of her betrayal, she should be seen by a clinical psychologist who can do some testing on her for dissociative disorder because this is that kind of "only possible if" situation. People don't forget sex. Unless they literally have another personality taking it over, isolating her consciousness and actively blocking. It's not unheard of, but it's far more rare than the casual wayward claim of not being able to remember.

Her not remembering should scare the dickens out of her, and you. And she should actively seek treatment for it. I would not stay married to someone who refused to seek treatment.

But the suggestion of a poly that seemed to set you off would remove doubt that she's faking memory loss. It's not a bad suggestion, given that the likelihood of her being a bonafide dissociative person is less likely than what a lot of people here are thinking she's doing.

What you're going through is rough. She may be selling it like it's truth, and completely believable. And there's a chance it's true. Remove the doubt; get her to a CLINICAL psychologist; the only discipline with the actual credentialing to do the testing and evaluation. Clinical psychologists are like radiologists, as compared to an imaging tech. An imaging tech can administer an x-ray or MRI, but it takes a radiologist to evaluate what those images show.

xhz700 posted 5/21/2019 16:39 PM

I need to also play the role of amateur shrink to coax the memories out.

Very gently, you aren't and shouldn't be her shrink. You are owning too much of this process. It is on her to sort her shit out. If she isn't, then you need to decide what that means for you.

If it isn't casualness, it's a bald-faced lie. This is not a single one-off moment of bad judgment. This was a planned event, as part of a much longer pattern of behavior. She doesn't need to remember one event, she needs to get to the root of why she was able to do this and bury it (if that's the case).

She can be beside herself all she wants now, the stakes are much higher than they were. She would be insane not to be. But her behavior at that time implies that this type of behavior was not abnormal for her.

I believe you will find out more if you go through with the hypnotism and poly.

SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 16:52 PM

Very gently, you aren't and shouldn't be her shrink. You are owning too much of this process. It is on her to sort her shit out.

I'm aware and I agree. She's starting IC next week and I can back off then.

Murkywaters posted 5/21/2019 16:52 PM

If she's as all in on this R as you are. Why were you able to put together the PA part of her affair but she couldn't? She didn't remember and you didn't know, but you were able to figure it out by doing her work for her.

It sounds a lot more like you dragging her along than her trying to prove herself safe.

NoOptTo posted 5/21/2019 16:56 PM

Here's some food for thought. You and your WW have been trying diligently working through this. Though she hasnt met your expectations. Maybe you take a three day weekend with just the kids and go upstate. The Catskills have plenty to offer for you and the kids to keep busy. Let your WW stay home. Leave her with these thoughts.... it's time you have to your self to reflect about your life. See what's important to you. Review your memories. When I return we will talk. If you can make me feel safe, we will continue with R. But also k ow that this weekend can be a foreshadowing of your future weekends if our marriage dissolves.

You can use so time away. Take it. Show your kids a good time. NY is a wonderful state see it.

Cooley2here posted 5/21/2019 16:57 PM

SD, please remember that your body is taking blows as if you were boxing. You are in a hyper vigilant state. The adrenaline and other hormones are designed to get you out of danger. They become toxic when you stay wired. Go somewhere you can breathe. Just get some walking shoes and walk, or run. You need to get yourself to calm down for a minute. Long term stress can kill you. Go somewhere and breathe.

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