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Shattered & Heartbroken

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SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 17:03 PM

Go somewhere you can breathe.

I intend to take a chemical vacation this evening to unwind.

I can't take a real vacation in my first month of a new job...

SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 18:36 PM

Why were you able to put together the PA part of her affair but she couldn't?

Murky, respectfully, if you were to have seen how I was able to put the pieces together,you'd understand. Even you may have been dubious at first until seeing the screenshots I took sequentially. It was like taking two different jigsaw puzzles that were scattered on one plate, separating the two puzzles & then putting the right pieces in the right places... only doing so digitally using the limited tools at my disposal

Cooley2here posted 5/21/2019 18:38 PM

SD, you can walk around the block

SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 18:40 PM

SD, you can walk around the block

Oh, that I did. Multiple times.

longsadstory1952 posted 5/21/2019 19:44 PM

Brother. I get that you are under stress. Big time. I get that you love your wife. But you have discovered the worst thing a guy can experience. Cheating while engaged. The only relevant discussion is that you cheated me of making a decision. To which her answer will probably be "but you would have broken up with me." To which your answer is at least I would have a choice.

So I get this. Yes, me too plus more. But for craps sake stop defending her. Her selective memory is really concerning to us. She forgot the porn videos? She forgot she fucked him while you were engaged? Well, maybe, but it's still a massive fu.

Anyway, I'm glad she's getting professional help. She really needs it.

SaddestDad posted 5/21/2019 21:59 PM

I'm glad she's getting it too.

As for it being a massive fuckup, well yeah I can't disagree with that.

Stating how I see and understand what occurred/what's occurring is not "defending." It's stating the facts, regardless of whether it makes sense according to the norms that are seen (honestly, can or should any of us consider infidelity to be a norm??)

Keep in mind, since DDay #1, I've been aware of an A going on since we were dating. Also keep in mind that I suspected that there was some sort of physicality and continued to question that. I trusted my gut, as is very prudently suggested here on SI, which had also told me throughout the years of the A that for some reason, she wasn't opening up as she should have as a newlywed.
Makes sense, right?

So, if that makes sense, why is the advice of trusting my gut all of a sudden retracted?

My gut, my logical observance based upon my knowledge of my wife's behaviors (obviously quite in-depth at this point) in addition to my work skills all tell me that she's telling the truth as she knows and believes it.
Are you saying that I now shouldn't trust my gut?

The only thing that will truly determine the aptness of my gut will be time, will it not?

If I'm wrong, you know I'll be the very first to come back and sadly say that you were right... but as of now I do believe that the selectiveness of her memory is not being actively selected.


PS - we already had that discussion. Multiple times. I was cheated on. The ability to make a decision was cheated away from me. But that's no reason for me to make the decision now (that I would've made) then until the right time that the decision is necessary to be made.

R can be actively worked toward at any time prior to D. If R truly fails for WHATEVER reason, D can (and in most cases should) be pursued.
Luckily, we're not there yet.

We're not yet (To quote Phantom), "Past the point of no return." To further quote Phantom,
the following IS already true for her:
"/No final glances/The games of make-believe are at an end"

longsadstory1952 posted 5/21/2019 22:14 PM

No I'm not saying you shouldn't trust your gut. It's gotten you here. Do what you need and get her into serious professional help.

RocketRaccoon posted 5/22/2019 00:03 AM

SD,

You are a good man that has been hurt deeply.

Your WW seems to be confused also, and it is good that she is going to see an IC soon. She has to sort out herself to make herself safe for you.

You will have to also sort your own stuff out by yourself, and not to depend on her too much, as it could damage your healing time.

If possible, detach for the time being, so that you can get your feet grounded again. You are currently standing on your WW's shifting sands, and it is throwing you for a loop. Try and find another place to stand for a while. Do you have someone IRL that has a good head on their shoulders and can be a bouncing board?

I wish you all the best in your journey to get out of Infidelity.

SoulCrushed16 posted 5/22/2019 02:58 AM

I’m going to echo a little bit on what RocketRaccoon stated.

You have to focus on YOUR healing, she needs to focus on HERS, and TOGETHER maybe down the line (2-5 years from now) you can repair the marriage as a team when you’ve both have taken the time to heal yourselves. You can’t heal her and she can’t heal you. There’s no timeline on how long it will take for you to heal. You’ll go throw the stages of grief over and over in no particular order. So go through them. You shouldn’t be taking any accountability for what she did, it has nothing to do with you. Also,

The gift of R should be withheld until you’re certain the work is being done. Close your ears and open your eyes. Actions, actions, and more actions are the only thing you should be looking out for. Personally, there is no amount of “I’m sorries” that can fix this 💩. Lastly,

I don’t think I’m the only one who has noticed how defensive you get when someone hints on something particularly painful (I know everything is painful) or that your CW is still lying and withholding. We get it, you’re convinced that she’s not, you’re putting your faith and trust in her that she’s not... your gut is telling you that she’s not... just be careful there...
Many of us BSs found that the posts that made us the most angry were the ones that we needed and ones that needed to be examined further because they were the most impactful. Sometimes it is that swift kick that is needed. You’re not failure. You’ve been failed. You’re hurt. You’re angry. Shit really sucks but EVERYONE that is posting is taking time to help.

SC

Lp0725 posted 5/22/2019 09:25 AM

I do think you should trust your gut, but at the same time your WW not remembering having sex with another man during your relationship seems so... farfetched that it stretches the bounds of credibility. I'm no psychologist, but did take a few psych courses in college, and so called "repressed" memories are extremely rare. Psychologists generally agree that repressed memories are not an actual thing that happens often in real life. When people suddenly recall repressed memories, they are usually false memories brought about by hypnosis or the power of suggestion (particularly with children). Also, the theory behind repressed memories is that they occur when an experience is so horrible and traumatizing that the person blocks it out to protect themselves. I don't see how sex with someone she wanted to have sex with could fall into this category. Of course, your WW could be the exception to this, as the human psyche is incredibly complex and not fully understood. If you truly believe she's being honest, then I'd be really scared about what else she's done that she's blocked out of her memory. It's EXTREMELY abnormal to not remember such significant things, unless she's got brain damage or something, which I'm sure you would've mentioned. I know you don't want to hear this, but I think the far more likely explanation is that your WW is a great actress who is manipulating you. I could be wrong of course, we could all be wrong, and I really hope you two are able to salvage your marriage. You've only just discovered it was a PA, and you need time to process this and see things with clarity.

LivingWithPain posted 5/22/2019 11:19 AM

Trust your gut, but re-train your brain to stop second guessing what your gut was telling you.

You had a gut feeling she was cheating on you from before the wedding. Why the hell did you go ahead and marry her? Ask yourself that hard question.

Also ask yourself why you are letting her gaslight you about the sex question and acting like she forgot. I have a crap memory, but I have very vivid and fond memories of every woman I have ever slept with. No one forgets a good lay.

SaddestDad posted 5/22/2019 11:42 AM

You had a gut feeling she was cheating on you from before the wedding. Why the hell did you go ahead and marry her?

I said that I had a gut feeling that there WAS PA ever since DDay #1. I did not say that I thought (at the time of dating) that she was cheating.

I did have a gut feeling that something was off during the early years of our marriage, but couldn't put my finger on why her opening up emotionally was such a difficulty for her.
Obviously, had I known or thought so at that time, we would not be together by now, since during the A, there was practically no love shown by her. I attributed it to the way she saw her mother interact with her father, and that she just needed to experience something more and become comfortable with showing it.

Once the A started dying down, that was the moment that she started showing love for me, because (again, I know this NOW) that was when she started truly loving me.

Also ask yourself why you are letting her gaslight you about the sex question and acting like she forgot. I have a crap memory, but I have very vivid and fond memories of every woman I have ever slept with. No one forgets a good lay

That's a pretty bold generalization there. Again, you (and most people on SI) don't seem to understand just how much of a stigma within the Orthodox Jewish community there is regarding premarital sex - and, of course, infidelity.
Due to the "fire and brimstone" way that each one of those issues receives after the fact, it really is quite reasonable to have a traumatic response (and memory blockage) once the realization of "WTF did I just do" kicks in. Which is exactly what happened.
I'm not being gas-lit by her. I'm not in denial, nor am I gaslighting myself.

If anyone simply can't understand nor accept that, I guess that says something about your own personal ability to put yourself into not just someone's shoes, but also to understand their cultural beliefs/indoctrination and the effects said indoctrination has on the psyche.

xhz700 posted 5/22/2019 12:37 PM

but also to understand their cultural beliefs/indoctrination and the effects said indoctrination has on the psyche.

Indoctrination isn't independent to Orthodox Judaism. No one is missing that angle here.

I am just very dubious that she doesn't remember sex after you were engaged. You are saying that it's reasonable that she remembers premarital sex, but not premarital sex when engaged? So the addition of the infidelity somehow changed the nature of what she remembers?

I can see I am not going to change your mind here, but to an outside observer, this just doesn't hold water.

SoulCrushed16 posted 5/22/2019 12:42 PM


Orthodox Jewish community there is regarding premarital sex - and, of course, infidelity.
Due to the "fire and brimstone" way that each one of those issues receives after the fact, it really is quite reasonable to have a traumatic response (and memory blockage) once the realization of "WTF did I just do" kicks in. Which is exactly what happened.

Why didn’t this stop her from carrying on an affair with 3 married men even before the two of you started dating? It is especially concerning that she would remember THOSE times but not the times when the two of you were engaged and possibly even married. Why didn’t that “WTF did I just do” knee jerk reaction expose itself when she continued on with a newly married man with children? She made sure to continue on with the affair as if nothing happened. As if she were not married with children of her own. She made many many choices that have landed you both here and she’s still in drivers seat making them. And you’re making excuses for her.

Very gently, why? Do you want to believe her so badly that you’re willing to just take whatever crumbs she’s giving you?

Rustylife posted 5/22/2019 13:08 PM

Do you believe that this one night was the only time they were intimate after your relationship started? Have you asked her? And what if you find out about multiple instances even after you two got married?

By your own admission, she showed you no love till the affair supposedly stopped. That's almost 2 yrs of relationship without any interest from her into you. Just about one of the most baffling things I have heard. I don't get it at all.

Hoping that your job is going well man.

SaddestDad posted 5/22/2019 13:20 PM

Do you believe that this one night was the only time they were intimate after your relationship started?

No. I believe there were at least 2 or 3 more times.

Rustylife posted 5/22/2019 14:20 PM

So why isn't she coming clean about this? Five yrs isn't that far back. This whole ordeal just erodes trust and love for the BS. Not much left after that.

SaddestDad posted 5/22/2019 14:30 PM

I believe that she is trying to come clean.

ChangeMaker posted 5/22/2019 14:49 PM

Hey Dad,

I found that I needed a vacation from my mind during the shit-storm... and chemical vacations were NOT the answer. Booze is especially bad - it's like 4K TV for focusing on the storm.

Try some other things... exercise is good. I tried running for the first time, I used the "Couch to 5k" program or C25K.. look it up if you're interested. I also rode my bicycle a lot. The physical exercise is healthy, helps you sleep, helps your appetite, helps keep prison time at bay, and people are more accepting of ragey screaming when you're working out.

I also forced myself to play guitar and learn music theory. I worked on things that require intense concentration, but not a lot of sharp or hot tools (after I cut and burned myself pretty good a few times).

Learn something you know nothing about... French, dressmaking, fluid dynamics, how they get the caffeine out of coffee, whatever!

Most of all... take what you need from SI and leave the rest. Take the responses here and ruminate on them - really give them some thought and use what you can - leave the rest behind, but read with an open mind. The responses are all made with good intentions, but some come from folks who are still hurting and in the middle of their own ordeal, some come from folks who are hard action-takers by nature, and some come from those who just wanna get you where you need to be right-f'ing-now. All want to help.

I will add that the people here were EXTREMELY accurate in predicting and exposing my XWW's lies and behaviour during my storm.

You are a very logical thinker, I can see that by your responses here - if you are not a lawyer, you'd probably be a good one - but there's not a lot of logic to be had in these situations. If your gut tells you stuff, you should listen one way or the other, but your gut is pretty close to your heart, and that sappy organ makes mistakes all the time.

fareast posted 5/22/2019 15:11 PM

SaddestDad:

I am sorry you are having to deal with this latest turmoil. You have never struck me as someone who is so blinded by the desire to R that you overlook your WW’s failings and try to minimize them. The thing I always try to keep in mind as I follow your thread is that you know your WW very well. You have been following your gut. Good. But you say your WW is trying to come clean and she does have trouble with her memory. I believe you. You say she has not cheated in a long time and is sincere in her efforts and desire to R. I trust your knowledge of your WW. This is your space to vent your frustrations and anger. Keep on, keepin on. My only advice is to take car3 of yourself first and foremost. I wish you luck.

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