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Shattered & Heartbroken

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HalfTime2017 posted 6/4/2019 13:35 PM

SD,

I think you've gotten a lot of sound advice from the people here on SI. Certainly its up to you, what you wish to take and what you wish to leave.

It really sounds like, after reading all your responses, going to give the WW the benefit of the doubt, and go all in on R. Honestly, there isn't anyone of your responses that says that you wouldn't be pursuing R, even if on your own, even if you say so. In reality, R is difficult, and what the people on SI are trying to help you understand with the calling her out on the lying, not remembering, Poly is to get you to the "Ground Level", the bottom of the PIT, so that you and your wife can start healing. Without the truth, it becomes difficult, and you continually have to reset every time there is a new revelation, or TT starts happening.

You said that your mother and WW spew a ton of passive aggressiveness, and you put up with it. I think that is what everyone is trying to get you to understand is that you don't have to take any of this, and you shouldn't, but it sounds like you've just put up with this your whole life. Stand up for yourself, you are worth something. Learn how to have healthy relationships with people in your life, and you'll be happier for it.

I bid you well brother. If you need to take a break from SI, do it. People on here will be willing to help you whenever you return.

Rustylife posted 6/4/2019 14:35 PM

Polygraph is junk science. And let's assume here that his WW is committed to the truth and isn't lying(which I don't believe). So right now her 'truthful' answer to "Did you have physical relationships with men other than your husband during your marriage?" is neither Yes nor No. It's "I don't remember". How does this help anyone? Waste of time, emotional energy and money that they currently don't have.

Also SD, do you guys read each other's thread? I hope that you've requested that she should not read what you post here. It wasn't the right decision to invite her here in your safe space. Don't prompt her to write/vent/share about any issue you feel she's falling short on. Let her own voice about the issues come out if she feels like sharing here. Don't ask her to do it. This is just one aspect of life. Together, or apart, life ultimately goes on. Don't let it consume you.

Some real life support will be 100 times better than what you get here. That's why I think IC for you is great. Honestly,we are all strangers who come in with our own biases and only know what you tell us. So it's not possible for us to know the full picture and you shouldn't let your mood be affected or make decisions based on what some internet randos think.

Booyah posted 6/4/2019 17:10 PM

SD I never ignored my gut nor should you.

That said my smell test is what I'm hearing make sense or am I so desperate to believe utter bull shit so that I can live with myself and the situation?

If I don't demand the truth from myself how in the world can I expect anyone else to be truthful with me?

Your wife is LYING to you SD about not being able to remember details. I would suggest stop making excuses for her and putting up with this BS so that you can start the healing process but that's up to you.

SaddestDad posted 6/4/2019 18:17 PM

Some real life support will be 100 times better than what you get here. That's why I think IC for you is great. Honestly,we are all strangers who come in with our own biases and only know what you tell us. So it's not possible for us to know the full picture and you shouldn't let your mood be affected or make decisions based on what some internet randos think.

I agree 1000%. Unfortunately, of the people I've told IRL (other than my IC), only one friend is equipped to speak to and vent to about it. He keeps emotionally in-check and listens to the details, asking intelligent and considerate questions. But I don't want to speak about it constantly, as I'm almost nervous that I may scare/annoy him off. Doesn't make sense, I know... but that's still my cincern.
The others that I confided in... well, I discovered one is a former SAWH, another is a wayward-leaning MH. As for my FOO... I'm NOT going into that shitstorm again 😬
Trust me, I want to be able to have a real shoulder to lean on without worrying that the shoulder may slump away without warning, but I haven't been able to find any support groups close to me yet.
Add into the mix how much I drive + so many friends aren't available throughout the day + my shame of people who know me hearing how she humiliated me for so long me wearing my heart on my sleeve to all of you fine strangers.

A group of people with a shared/common interest or experience is a community, regardless of whether virtual or not.

To everyone who's been showing me support, experiential advice & feedback I thank you as a friend and fellow survivor, comrade, friend, neighbor... whatever terminology you wish to use.

Even if certain suggestions don't jive with my own views, the very fact that you've taken the time to give them for my sake is BEYOND appreciated, especially during times that I lash out.

waitedwaytoolong posted 6/4/2019 18:45 PM

Lets be honest here. Absolutely no one believes the tales that she couldn't remember having sex with someone multiple times on top of a pregnancy scare. My guess is deep down you don't either.

My guess also is there probably isn't anything that she did in her past that at this point would make you walk away from her. You should just tell her this and let that be her crutch to finally telling you everything all at once. Let her clean the slate once and for all and tell her that if you do this again, we are done.

Or just forget about finding out, and move on. You are going to do that anyway.

SaddestDad posted 6/5/2019 14:24 PM

My guess also is there probably isn't anything that she did in her past that at this point would make you walk away from her. You should just tell her this and let that be her crutch to finally telling you everything all at once. Let her clean the slate once and for all and tell her that if you do this again, we are done.

I think that you may be correct on this, since I know that all that I have learned up till now hasn't sent me running.

The more I mull this over (I've read this post about 15 times between last night & today) the more I think that me not being as transparent to myself in this specific regard is, in fact, delaying the possibility of my healing.

I just wish that there was someone that has been in my exact shoes in terms of POSOM being a holdover from the past in conjunction with finding out years later that WW's love for me as a person did not truly develop until after the A fizzled out.

I keep emphasizing, "fizzled out," because until DDay 1, there was never any definitive line she drew, even as she started ghosting him.
Even the "au revoir" that she did in person was in 2015 - the more constant LTEA texts (with her mutual responsiveness) continued on through 2016... she didn't fully stop responding to his attempts until 2017 - and even then, she never blocked him nor said ENOUGH.

It's so hard for anyone else to comprehend, since so many people here HAD a mutual foundation of love prior to M... it adds so much more complexity to my coping.

I was pretty mad at Gd for the past week or so. Today, I realized that Gd hadn't been controlling her actions, lies, abuse & neglect toward me.
What Gd DID do was give me the ability to discover it for myself & to keep from killing myself once I did.

I'm not out of the woods yet. Not by a long shot. I know this.
But I sure as fuck believe that I have the ability to get there at some point in the future regardless of our outcome.

Butforthegrace posted 6/5/2019 15:30 PM

Have you asked her why she proceeded with getting married to you even though her obvious emotional attachment to POSOM was still ongoing?

SaddestDad posted 6/5/2019 17:01 PM

Have you asked her why she proceeded with getting married to you even though her obvious emotional attachment to POSOM was still ongoing?

Yes, I have asked that. Her answer was because she saw the potential in me as someone she wanted to get married, and that POSOM was not someone she could nor would ever marry.

She said that she saw me as a marriage partner that she could spend the rest of her life with, she liked me & wanted to be with me. She saw the kind of father I could be, as well as other qualities of mine & that she could learn a lot from me, I made her laugh, I forced her to see the good in herself and made her feel good about herself. I was confident but not cocky - but most of all that I was a good person.

Additionally, to quote her word-for-word:

"Everything that was on my list [of specific marriageable requirements] didn't matter when it came to you. I knew I could love you and that I would love you. You're the first person that got me to let my guard down. The first person I could truly feel comfortable around. You inspired me and gave me hope that I would be able to change so my past wouldn't dictate my future."

waitedwaytoolong posted 6/5/2019 20:18 PM

I just wish that there was someone that has been in my exact shoes in terms of POSOM being a holdover from the past in conjunction with finding out years later that WW's love for me as a person did not truly develop until after the A fizzled out.

If you looked hard enough you probably would find thousands of stories like that here. Some probably kicked their spouse out of the house, others forgave immediately.

Their stories don't matter at all. I divorced my wife after she had a three week affair. She was remorseful and to this day still drunk texts me how sorry she is. Others here reconciled with their spouse after they were screwing their AP for over ten years.

It is all what you can live with. I just couldn't live with what she did. You don't need to compare yourself to anyone else. Do what you think is right.

pureheartkit posted 6/5/2019 22:28 PM

You are correct. This is entirely to do with her free will. We are all free to live our lives in the way we choose. Hopefully our parents and others who love us give us help to make choices that give us healthy happy productive experiences.

I know some women who were wild back in the day. They chose great guys and act completely different today. They are in mom mode now. Some have regrets about the past, some don't. I don't doubt their husbands don't know the extent of what they did. I myself was taken aback when I heard what my WS had been up to in his 20s. The thing that makes me worry for you is her attitude of get over it or you need to stuff your feelings so you can get your work done. You need some tender care at this time.

Why we have these difficult times in life I cannot understand. I want to understand it as soon as I end my time here. Even people you know who seem to have everything, life's going great and everyone likes them......sometimes you find out they were actually unhappy for a long time and hid their pain. I never heard of anyone who had a perfect life. We like to compare ourselves and that's human. Never let that trouble you though.

It can be very hard when you look around and see others doing well while you're falling apart, trying to seem as normal as you can. I wish we could be fully ourselves out in the world but we're expected to make the best of it out in public. I recall the story a member told here of being in a market and not knowing what to buy and about to break into tears when a kind woman came up to him and offered to get everything on his daughters list. Just that small thing touched him so much.

Is there something that makes you happy that you could do for a few minutes in the car a few times a day? I unravelled sweaters and wound the yarn into little balls so i could knit hats and socks and baby things. I got beautiful sweaters from a seller who bought up Nordstrom and Macy's damaged stock. The fiber was very nice and I liked reusing it for my projects. I would let my mind go for a few minutes and the yarn was soft in my hands.

It doesn't matter what it is just as long as it gives you some happiness.


Odonna posted 6/5/2019 22:42 PM

PHK:

That was Ohforanewme’s story, and they are getting married now!

Sorry for the T/J but spread the news!!

SaddestDad posted 6/5/2019 23:17 PM

You are correct. This is entirely to do with her free will. We are all free to live our lives in the way we choose.

It's been challenging for me to be cognizant of the above, PHK. Truly difficult.
It can be very hard when you look around and see others doing well while you're falling apart, trying to seem as normal as you can.

EXACTLY!!! And yeah, I know that everyone's got their own shit they're coping with but seeing my new job falling apart because I'M falling apart is creating a vicious cycle that I can't seem to put a stop to...

Is there something that makes you happy that you could do for a few minutes in the car a few times a day?

Honestly, not really. I've been starting to get migraines since DDay 1. It's been getting worse and more constant since DDay 2, so listening to music is risky. I DO enjoy driving, but the state of mind (and the migraines) I've been falling into makes me nervous to do so any more than I truly need...

That story you mentioned is beautiful - and to think that they're marrying now?! Wow.


I will say this (please, don't debate the following) - WW has been trying to provide TLC... she's still learning how to. I know it's going to take a while, but she really is trying.
The attitude you're referring to is, in my eyes, becoming less and less each day.
Ever since she said that, we've been discussing every single day. We've been discussing more about her treatment of me than her cheating (but obviously it all ties together and we do discuss both). The more that we discuss (at the times that I'm being rational and not letting my emotions take control), the more she's noticeably aware and working on becoming not just a good wife, nor only a good person... but also to become a FWW.

pureheartkit posted 6/6/2019 19:22 PM

Migraines make everything worse. I know that pain. Combined with mental pain it must be hard to get out of bed.

I get some relief in a dark quiet place with a wet cloth over my eye area. When its bad and goes for days, it's very hard to sleep. Besides the usual triggers like too little sleep, stress, weather changes, dehydration, too much salt, too much sugar can you think of anything else food wise that might be a migraine trigger that you could avoid. All i need is 3 triggers to start the process. I can't drive during one so it must be horrible for you. Foot massage ( my feet hurt during a M) and keeping hydrated and low salt foods help me when I get one. Also try to eat more fiber rich foods to clear out any foods that may have been a M trigger.

SD you are going to make it through this. You are too thoughtful to live a life of pain. Some way, there is an answer.

Lp0725 posted 6/6/2019 21:55 PM

I don't think you'll ever be able to heal within this marriage until your wife shows true love and empathy for you, which it sounds to me she still has a long way to go to get there. I think you need to start drawing some boundaries of what you can and can't accept in your marriage. What would she have to do in order for you to walk away? What is it that YOU want in your life partner? Do you think it's possible for her to be wife you want and deserve? You are such a loving, caring husband. You deserve that in return.

SaddestDad posted 6/7/2019 19:00 PM

Today was absolutely terrible.

Tomorrow is the anniversary of the day I proposed.

I can't even. Just can't.

survrus posted 6/7/2019 20:30 PM

SD,

You wrote that your W said, "Everything that was on my list [of specific marriageable requirements] didn't matter when it came to you. I knew I could love you and that I would love you. You're the first person that got me to let my guard down. The first person I could truly feel comfortable around. You inspired me and gave me hope that I would be able to change so my past wouldn't dictate my future."

Reminded me of the George Orwell quote, “Those who control the present control the past, and those who control the past control the future.”

I suppose there is a certain Orwellian double think in that we try to think about our wive as one more person than the one we knew.

[This message edited by survrus at 8:32 PM, June 7th (Friday)]

ChamomileTea posted 6/7/2019 21:41 PM

What are you doing to get your depression under control? Don't get me wrong, I get it... been there and done that. You don't have 30 years of your life, years you can never have back, shot down in flames like they were nothing by your spouse's Craiglist binge without getting that particular T-shirt. So, yeah... depression, anxiety, trauma. I get it.
But what are you DOING about it?

GoldenR posted 6/7/2019 22:06 PM

"Everything that was on my list [of specific marriageable requirements] didn't matter when it came to you. I knew I could love you and that I would love you. You're the first person that got me to let my guard down. The first person I could truly feel comfortable around. You inspired me and gave me hope that I would be able to change so my past wouldn't dictate my future."

This is brutal. That's pretty much saying that she married her plan B bc plan A was only a sexual plan A, and she hoped she'd grow into plan B eventually.

Jesus...

Edie posted 6/8/2019 07:50 AM

This Plan A v Plan B stuff that occasionally pops up here is overly simplistic and a dichotomy that cannot begin to embrace the complexity of the human’s thought processes and desires. I can’t even see how Plan A/b can be derived from that quote.

sisoon posted 6/8/2019 12:54 PM

Let her clean the slate once and for all and tell her that if you do this again, we are done.

I think that you may be correct on this, since I know that all that I have learned up till now hasn't sent me running.

Correct or not, I see this as selling yourself out - there may in fact be something she needs to reveal that is a deal breaker. Come to think of it, my W committed to staying with ow as her therapist early in their relationship, and I think that helped keep my W from stopping the therapy when it became not-therapy (months before the A began).

I strongly urge you not to commit to something in an unsafe way.

You can certainly say something like, 'I can't imagine that there's a deal breaker lurking in the background, but you need to come clean now.'

Also, again, you really do sound depressed. The right med could help you in all sorts of ways. There are side effects - but not all side effects are negative; some of them are unexpected and positive.

Hang in, SD.

I hope you had a good Shabbat, and Chag sameach! I hope you got some peace and enlightenment.

ETA: You and your W seem to have connected on a very deep basis. Those words of hers that you quote are very moving to me in very good ways. That doesn't mean you have to stay. Her A may have broken the bond.

But you and she had and may still have something very good. That says something very positive about you ... don't forget that.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:58 PM, June 8th (Saturday)]

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