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Shattered & Heartbroken

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Marz posted 2/19/2019 15:48 PM

It's funny how the dynamics change once you stand up and quit taking shit isn't it?

Jduff posted 2/19/2019 15:54 PM

Wait...wait, wait, wait. Are you talking about sex videos? Are you saying she "kept" sex videos on her laptop? Please clarify this.

She's been opening up sexually and we've already tried things in the past few days that she has refused for years.

Was she more open with those OM's than with you?

ShutterHappy posted 2/19/2019 16:25 PM

I think that those videos were produced before SaddestDad and Miss SaddestDad were dating

Marauder posted 2/19/2019 17:15 PM

This might sound harsh but, your marriage is over in my opinion. Your wife isn't just a cheater, she's a serial cheater and had affairs while her daughter was conceived. You might want to consider a paternity test.

I blame this man. This DOG.

Except, it's not one. It's several. You can blame them for their part in this but make no mistake. None of them were married to you, none of them made their vows to you, your wife did. If it hadn't been these guys, it would've been other guys.

Even while crying in her guilt, she still couldn't give me many details... at first.
I pushed for more. Turns out, she repressed the memories. Until I dredged up every old message with him.

Repressed memories are something victims have. She is not a victim. She is obfuscating, she is hiding things and trickle truthing you. Because if she was being entirely honest, you'd likely be gone. This is cheater survival mode you're experiencing.

Better yet, she was also flirting with two other married men from her past (also married at that time).

These are the guys you found out about. All you know so far is what she has admitted to. You can be pretty certain there's more, more stuff that happened, likely more guys, etc.

I don't believe that she'd ever do it again

Cheaters are often repeat offenders, serial cheaters are almost always repeat offenders.

As of last night, she does finally admit that there were feelings behind her words

You assume there were only words, why? This woman had sexual relations with this man for years. She kept in contact with him right through your relationship, engagement, and marriage. But all of a sudden they only took it so far and then stopped?

We've got 2 children, the oldest is the 2 year old.

She has two children. You MIGHT have two children.

She's been opening up sexually and we've already tried things in the past few days that she has refused for years.

Call me a cynic but I almost guarantee you're going to have a DD2 and possibly DD3. The other betrayed spouse might give you some more information once her own partner goes into survival mode.

If I was a betting man. I'd bet that she did many things she denied to you with the other guys. This is a quite regular occurrence in affairs where one partner suddenly becomes more open. Because it makes their betrayal even more impactful and hurtful. "Why him and not me?".

SaddestDad posted 2/20/2019 12:01 PM

Marz, I feel the dynamics are changing less because of me not taking shit, and more because she's no longer full of shit.

Jduff, the sex videos were from before I was a glimmer in her eye... she did not even remember they were there. It's her old laptop that hasnt been used for years. I knew something would be, just didn't know what.
She WAS more open sexually with them but she states that part of the reason is because she tried to go to the extreme of vanilla in order to not see herself as she was. She was somewhat of a slut during her romping days.

Shutter, correct.

Marauder, I hear what you're saying but I cannot agree. I do not believe that there is more than what I've discovered other than the specific details that haven't been brought to light yet. I can't explain why, just like I can't explain how I knew beyond a shadow of doubt that there were videos on her computer which hasn't been used in so long...

Jduff posted 2/20/2019 16:07 PM

She WAS more open sexually with them but she states that part of the reason is because she tried to go to the extreme of vanilla in order to not see herself as she was. She was somewhat of a slut during her romping days.

I tell you what, the only person slut shaming her was herself and whatever FOO or possible past abuse she was operating from. I don't consider women who experiment sexually early in their lives to be "sluts". Just stating my opiniion in this. I just consider women who concurrently open up sexually through words or physical acts to men other than their own spouses or partners while denying them the same "openness" as seriously having their mental wires crossed.

Most of us former and current BHs' wished our WWs' would have "opened" up more sexually with them during the M or at least later in the M. Don't you find it unnerving that she spent "open" sex with her AP in the past but thought you should only get "vanilla"? And the icing on that shit cake? She kept videos of her "slutier" version (her words) on her laptop as what? Momentos of a "spicier" time or as a reminder to stay "vanilla"?

I won't tell you to R or D. I will tell you that your are not the first nor the last BH who has a WW that kept videos, email, pictures, of their AP's only to have their BH discover them. Last story I read ended rather tragically. I highly suggest your WW go get some serious IC, not just whatever she conveniently finds that fits her schedule. She may want to R, but I still pose the question does she really want to be married by your definition of what marriage is to you. You were expecting more than "vanilla" at some point in the M yet she thought everyone else should get the remaining 30 out of 31 flavors for whatever messed up reason that makes her think she would be a slut by serving that other 30 to you.

Just move forward with eyes wide open.

SaddestDad posted 2/20/2019 16:21 PM

The videos were on her computer from a previous backup of her phone. I believe her that she didn't even know they were there. She was legitimately dumbfounded. They weren't mementoes.

LtCdrLost posted 2/20/2019 16:55 PM

I do not believe that there is more than what I've discovered other than the specific details that haven't been brought to light yet.

I feel the dynamics are changing less because of me not taking shit, and more because she's no longer full of shit.

Sir, you had better remove your blinders and stop mainlining Hopium. Or you're going to be stuck in the hurt locker for far longer than necessary.

ShutterHappy posted 2/20/2019 17:12 PM

SaddestDad,

Do you have a plan to move out of infidelity? Have you looked at the list I put on page 1?

Please remember that all posters here have gone through infidelity one way or the other. We all know how though this is. Itís so shitty that hundreds of people decided to help others in this situation. My story happened 20 odd years ago and I still want to help.

You may not like what you read, but we all want to help you one way or another. Sending you strength...

Marauder posted 2/20/2019 17:45 PM

She was somewhat of a slut during her romping days.

You're talking about this in past tense. As if it was over. If it was, you wouldn't be here. I'm not trying to drag you down or trash talk you, more trying to snap you out of what I feel is an incredible amount of blame shifting and denial on your end.

Marauder, I hear what you're saying but I cannot agree. I do not believe that there is more than what I've discovered other than the specific details that haven't been brought to light yet. I can't explain why, just like I can't explain how I knew beyond a shadow of doubt that there were videos on her computer which hasn't been used in so long...

Hope, denial, a desperate need to cling onto what you perceived as a good marriage. The assumption that there were videos in all likelihood was you knew there were things right beneath the surface and going out of your way to not touch them. Because unless you acknowledge it and drag it up into the light, you could pretend it isn't there.

Think about it like a trawler, you knew you were dragging the next behind you and there's all kind of stuff in it. Now she reeled it in a bit and you were forced to look at what came to light. The net isn't really out of the water, you just got a small glimpse and dragging it up properly will cast doubt on years you've invested, on the life, you had, even on the paternity of the children.

Once again, I'm not trying to put you down or make you feel bad. I'm more worried that you'll let this slide, that you stop looking, proceed to cast her as a "victim" as some of your language is already doing, such as calling them repressed memories. Just to fall prey to the sunk cost fallacy and lose even more years and be hurt far worse.

faithfulman posted 2/20/2019 20:17 PM

Saddest Dad, I think the question here is do you want to 'believe', or do you want to 'know'?

You looked on her computer and found graphic sex videos that were all supposed to be deleted.

She gave the other men the hot kinky sex and saved the boring sex for you.

She says she went from a physical sexual relationship to a merely virtual sexual relationship after she married you. Which she did secretly and lied about.

If you are dead set on reconciliation no matter what, look no further.

But if you want to know who and what you are really dealing with, so you can make an informed decision, then you'd better start turning over every rock.

Start with running recovery software on her current phone and all of her prior phones you can access. I recommend Fonelab.

Put a VAR in her car. Look at her phone and text activity.

Keep doing these things even after the heat dies down.

And polygraph her.

Sorry to say, but I think you'll find out more, much more. Cheaters always lie.

The choice is yours.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 8:20 PM, February 20th (Wednesday)]

SaddestDad posted 2/21/2019 14:21 PM

Whatever I dont care anymore. Life is shit.

Stevesn posted 2/21/2019 14:34 PM

Hey SD

Whatís up. I want you to know there is most definitely a path here to a happy marriage.

I wonít lie. Itís not a fast and easy path to take. Sometimes youíll bargain with yourself as a BS and say ďwell if she just says the right things, Iíll forget about the past and we can move onĒ

I wish it were that easy.

The truth is you both need to do some hard work on IC, her to figure out how she was able to let herself betray the man she vowed to love, and you to work thru the pin it caused you.

After that, and it can take several months or a year or more, then you need to work on how you have a happy marriage together. Some of this can be done concurrently, but the marriage work should at least wait til sheís worked thru some of her issues.

In addition she needs to make a plan to make you feel safe. I probably said that to you before. But itís the truth. Please donít take this lightly.

Ask her to write a first draft. Ask her to take a week and research it. Then ask her to present it to you.

She cannot take this lightly! If this is silly or a game to her, then honestly I do t have high hopes for you both.

She needs to figure out how much she values you and your relationship.

If it were me, Iíd ask her to write a letter telling you what you mean to her.

Letís work thru this with you. I know you want to R and do t want to think about D, but letís not take D off the table while you are trying to evaluate if R is a possibility.

Thatís all we are asking.

Letís get Into this. Letís ddiscuss and help you figure it all out.

We are here for you.

Stevesn posted 2/21/2019 14:50 PM

Also, some thoughts from previous comments you made.

1) if you havenít bought the new ring, wait for a bit. Maybe sell the old one and give the money to a relevant charity. Then go ringless for a while. Tell her if she removes hers youíll know sheís not all in for the marriage and she now has to convince you to be all in.

After sheís done the work needed to rebuild the M, and you feel sufficiently healed to start a new M together, perhaps then she can work extra hours or sell something of value to only her to pay for your new ring.

That would be much more meaningful.

2) the sexual bonding you do is fine, but youíll find yourself with ups and downs of emotions over it during the coming months into years.

My belief is if she truly values you then sheíll do her best to make you feel truly valued as well, thru whatever you need. So donít feel bad about accepting these advances or rejecting them, whatever you feel u need at the time.

And this doesnít include just sex. Itís other things like gifts and sexting with you. Whatever you can handle without triggering. Tell her if you are the true one she wants in her life, you expect what she gave him to be given to you tenfold.

3) make sure she finds an IC that specializes in Infidelity. This is important. She wants to do the right kind of work if sheís ever to become a safe partner for you again.

4) are you sure they never met up during your M for real physical contact? She should offer up doing a polygraph to prove that wasnít the case.

5) I definitely suggest you speak directly to the OBS. Donít tell your WS youíll be doing this. Just do it and remind your WS that any contact attempts from the AP should be reported to you and not responded to.

When you tell the OBS let her know that you have proof that her husband had an affair with your wife. No reason to dwell on the part that your W wasnít married at the time, the EA and sexting continued after your wedding day are just as bad.

And try and prepare her for what she will see in the video.

Affairs grow in the dark and die in the light. Contacting the OBS is the best light you can shine on what they did together.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 2:51 PM, February 21st (Thursday)]

SaddestDad posted 2/22/2019 08:23 AM

Going ringless feels to me like throwing in the towel, even if it's just to make a statement. When she gets me the new one, I'll either have this one melted down into something else, keep it as a reminder of what happens when ignorant, or sell it for the proceeds to go into my own pocket. I spent so much for her and us, I think that would be fair.

Last night I got very upset because I lasted the shortest I ever lasted. Felt truly inferior to that douchebag. Also his abs vs my dad-belly... not exactly confidence-boosting.

I do believe she's truly trying and I got Fonelab last night. There's no indication at all of any PA (thank gd!) and nothing new has shown that I haven't already discovered.

I edited the videos together... total of 21 minutes... made her watch all of it so she could see the difference of body and facial language between the times she was with him and the times she's with me. She did see that she's been closed off to me in that regard, which is progress...

She does plan to find the right IC. I do too when I'm ready to.

I am going to tell the OBS. One of the videos was in their apartment on a pink heart pillow which I'm pretty sure he didn't buy for himself. I pointed that out last night and WW was horrified. I'm contemplating just sending individual frames with his face, cock, wedding ring, apartment, etc... instead of the video itself because I don't want to be cruel to the OBS.

I'm just so damn depressed right now. I can't even job hunt as I should be.

Stevesn posted 2/22/2019 09:24 AM

Iím glad u are still posting now.

I want to promise you something. If you are all in, and more importantly if your WW is ALL IN, you will get thru this. You will find happiness.

Can I ask you, what is your wife saying she wants. How does she see the AP? How does she see you.?

Iím going to keep harping on this, because I think itís important.

If she says she is all in with repairing her marriage and wants to spend her life with you, Ask her to do these things in this order:
1) write up a draft plan for repairing the M. Tell her to research it and put in what she thinks she needs to do to fix what she broke and help you heal
2) ask her to write a timeline of every interaction she had with him since you have known her, whether it was on the phone, via messaging or in person
3) ask her to write you a letter as to what you mean to her and why she wants to have a relationship with you still after she showed it wasnít important to her thru the actions of her infidelity
4) ask her to write you a letter of apology letter for what she did and how she thinks it must have made you feel

My friend, this is how you start the work to get back to a safe and happy relationship. Itís not guaranteed. Itís not easy. But there is no shortcut.

If sheís not willing to do this for you then sheís not AALL IN and you have little hope of a successful reconciliation.

Please stay with us. Sending you hope and strength.

Stevesn posted 2/22/2019 09:26 AM

And I do agree with sending still photos to the OBS first and tell her she can have the whole video if she wants.

SaddestDad posted 2/22/2019 10:00 AM

Thanks Stevesn. I appreciate you very much!

She is adamant that she thinks nothing other than disgust for him now.

She emphasizes that I am her entire world and, although I should've been before, it's even more clear-cut with definitiveness now than it ever was.

She is willing and open to everything and anything needed to earn my trust back.

She started writing a timeline but can't write at work and the kids get extremely distracting while they're up. When they're asleep, we try to make "us" time and working on the timeline at those times would sacrifice the other efforts we're making.

One thing that annoys me to no end is that she keeps asking me what I want. I keep telling her that I don't want anything due to me wanting it, and that I would prefer that whatever she does or we do is solely because of her desire to do so. Which, I'm well aware, is somewhat hypocritical for me to say but it is what it is.

Stevesn posted 2/22/2019 10:21 AM

Ok good to hear.

But letís be definitive about this work. Donít be vague. Vague never gets the job done.

So while Iím glad sheís saying the right things. Itís the actions that count.

Take my list of 4 things and give them to her and tell her this will be the starting point to repairing what she broke.

Then tell her you know itís hard to find the time with family responsibilities so you will give her an hour a day where you will handle kids duties and she can either find a quite space at home or some place close by to work on it.

She can do the same for you when you need time to review what she wrote.

Finally, tell her before you tell her what u want and need, you want to hear from her what she thinks she needs to do to repair the damage and help you heal. Even tell her the research she does will show you how ďall inĒ she is to this relationship.

You can even go as far as recommending the book ďhow to help your spouse heal after your affairĒ. Tell her that shouldnít be her only source.

Tell her you want to go over the list next Friday so to get started on it this weekend.

SD, this all sucks. The root of these problems usually include poor communication beteeen spouses. You need to change that. Learning how to communicate thru the R process will go a long way to making for a better Marriage if you are successful in reconciling.

I urge you not to take this lightly, get real specific and diligent. The future of your nuclear family depends upon it.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:22 AM, February 22nd (Friday)]

Stevesn posted 2/22/2019 10:30 AM

Also Tell her you need to drive this work. You need to show me what you will do to make up for what you have done. I will provide input, my thoughts, my criticism, my appreciation along the way, but Itís up to you to make it happen. Thatís what will show me that you are all in. I want us to succeed. My heart depends upon it.

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