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Shattered & Heartbroken

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SaddestDad posted 7/15/2019 15:42 PM

There are many, many more comments on her thread that are aimed at helping the both of you. The good should far outweigh the bad.

I was always taught the following phrase while growing up....

"It's all in the delivery."

When the "good" is being so twisted by the chosen words or tone, the "good" inherently becomes bad.

When critique and feedback is provided in such a way that the receiver is taken aback by the peripheral verbiage, the message gets lost amongst the hurtful things being said.

We are calling her on her shit. Her lack of empathy. Her lies.

Sometimes a WS will leave because members are hitting way too close to home. They can often see things the BS doesn't see, and the WS doesn't want them to see.

If a WS or BS only post when they're going through difficult moments, then don't you think it may be emerald-colored glasses the other posters see it with?

I've lost count of threads that scream at me that the BS should drop the WS based on what the BS has said, however, I keep that to myself because I know that I'm more than likely not seeing the full picture - and who am I (other than a concerned community member) to be the one to suggest that ESPECIALLY when all I see is the pain they exhibit at the time of posting DUE to the fact that they're posting during a moment of pain??
In cases such as those, I keep it to myself unless I have something to add that may give the BS (or WS) something to question themselves and come to their own conclusive decisions.
In doing so, it allows me to avoid generalizing & making accusations based on my own subjective experiences.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to write all this out, tbh. I hadn't planned to, nor did I really want to... rambling is now complete.

fareast posted 7/15/2019 17:57 PM

Hang in there SaddestDad. Take the advice you can use and leave the rest. That goes for your WW as well. The important thing is that you two both keep working. Donít let any overly negative or unnecessarily hurtful comments deter either of you. Filter out what you donít need. There are some insightful comments to heed. You seem to have this analyzed pretty accurately.

66charger posted 7/15/2019 22:59 PM

Why do to you rant against SI posters when the reason people do not believe your wife is because of what YOU wrote. It was you who proved she was lying, so what's up with the outrage?

And now a recent post about a situation very similar to DDay 2. She finds his work address on Linked In, GNO, the resteraunt is a block away from where the AP works and she disappears for an hour. Should we accept her word or follow YOUR lead?

Instead of defending someone with selective amnesia, why dont you call the OBS and find out where the AP was on Tuesday evening? Right around the time your wife was a block away and disappeared for an hour. There is a good chance you were played. And this forum was used to play you.

Or dont and continue to blame those on SI who are fresh out of sugar. If we call your wife a liar, it is because that is what you taught us to do.

Strength and Honor...Saddestdad.


SaddestDad posted 7/16/2019 04:42 AM

The important thing is that you two both keep working.

Thank you, Fareast. We're doing as well as we can, all things considered. I'm focusing on myself, trying to do right by my responsibilities as a father & a husband without letting emotion take over during times the darkness hits (which doesn't seem to usually have a precursor or warning prior).
I've been continuing IC & have been learning coping skills from the therapy.

And 66... I appreciate you and your concern.

66charger posted 7/16/2019 09:49 AM

The concern was sincere. You are only 30 years old, married at a young age with a lot of unnecessary problems. Very few posters are telling you to divorce. What they are saying is, something is not right here. This is not how a marriage should be, with or without infidelity.

You have a long life ahead of you. There is
a saying in the WW side that the infidelity does not define you. That is true when there is sincere remorse and truth going forward. Whatever you decide to do from here, do not let this define you as a BS. You will waste the 2nd most precious thing you have living this way. Your children being the first and your time on this planet, the 2nd.

And please consider changing your name. Saddestdad needs to be packaged, filed and labeled as yesterday's news. Many would love to go back to 30 and make some changes. Perhaps it is you who needs to make a change for the better.

ChamomileTea posted 7/16/2019 11:26 AM

Sadly, we are already discussing that. I say "sadly" because posting is one of the things she took on as part of her work in order to be able to see the progress she's making without running the risk of her inadvertantly rugsweeping.

I say "sadly" also because on dark days when I feel like I can't pull myself through to the brightness, this IS a good place for me to vent... the problem is that I really only use it for those times now, so it looks like I'm doing so much worse than I actually am. I guess that's really the biggest irony of it all.

I think there comes a point in R where people need to grab onto their happiness and run with it, and to be frank with you, I don't believe in punishing a WS past the point where we've agreed to take them back. If their cheating was a deal-breaker, as BS we have a responsibility to act on that by filing for divorce and following through. But when we take them back into the marriage, equality needs to be the goal, not keeping them in the one-down position for the rest of the marriage. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it all doesn't take time, only that we're actively reaching for it, even when it makes us feel vulnerable and anxious. It's an emotional risk, but there is no guaranteed safe course. And it's your call as to when/if you decide to take it.

This isn't an easy concept for people who are still in the JFO stage and rightly so. They're still in crisis. But there does come a turning point where we're reasonably certain that we have a remorseful partner who won't cheat again. So, where's the line between "rugsweeping" and beating a dead horse?

That's up to you and your wife to decide. I've been thinking for some time now that I'll take the full five years and then I'm never going to think about it again. I'm not going to be tonguing a sore tooth for the rest of my life, I just refuse to do it. But I'll be honest with you, there are some days and certain content which really sets me back when I read it. Fortunately, my fWH and I aren't sharing this site, so I've still got about five months left to wrap it up on my self-imposed timetable. But if we were both here, I can imagine that this place could very quickly feel like an anthill we'd accidentally kicked over, with heated opinions boiling out little red ants.

It's up to you and your wife, but I think you'd both do fine turning in to each other when you're going through the rough spots. As long as you can both remember to turn in and not away, I think it's fair to have confidence in your own growth and in the tools you've developed.

sensibletinch posted 7/17/2019 06:19 AM

And now a recent post about a situation very similar to DDay 2. She finds his work address on Linked In, GNO, the resteraunt is a block away from where the AP works and she disappears for an hour. Should we accept her word or follow YOUR lead?

Instead of defending someone with selective amnesia, why dont you call the OBS and find out where the AP was on Tuesday evening? Right around the time your wife was a block away and disappeared for an hour. There is a good chance you were played. And this forum was used to play you.

66charger, you seem like the prototypical poster attacking her for the sake of it. If you had bothered to read, you'd know that it was SD who searched for the guy on LinkedIn, not her. And that it is a bank, and that it was in the evening when the bank is closed. But of course you know everything about them.

Cooley2here posted 7/17/2019 09:23 AM

This is a wonderful forum because no one knows what it feels like to be cheated on until theyíre cheated on. Every single story is different. Family dynamics are different. Expectations are different. Families of origin are different. We are given a portal to see bits and pieces of someoneís life. Because thatís all we see we have to extrapolate out and try to help the best way we can. If we bring anger and pain into our discussion things are going to get sideways in a hurry. The only thing that a spouse can do, either the cheater or the cheatee, is to take into consideration that everyone on here brings their own baggage. One thing I have noticed is that often times the betrayed spouse will channel their anger at posters rather than at the cheater. It feels safer.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 9:28 AM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

66charger posted 7/17/2019 09:40 AM

Sorry you feel that way. I could counter that believing anything she says is not "sensible", however i have sincerely wished him well so we will leave it at that.

Surfs up. Have a good day.

TimSC posted 7/17/2019 14:21 PM

SD,

I just saw where your wife admits to seeing her AP during dating, engagement, and 5 times during the first year of marriage.

Is she talking about sex with him? I thought she ended all physical contact with him the day you married.

SaddestDad posted 7/17/2019 17:35 PM

This is a wonderful forum because no one knows what it feels like to be cheated on until theyíre cheated on. Every single story is different. Family dynamics are different. Expectations are different. Families of origin are different. We are given a portal to see bits and pieces of someoneís life. Because thatís all we see we have to extrapolate out and try to help the best way we can. If we bring anger and pain into our discussion things are going to get sideways in a hurry. The only thing that a spouse can do, either the cheater or the cheatee, is to take into consideration that everyone on here brings their own baggage. One thing I have noticed is that often times the betrayed spouse will channel their anger at posters rather than at the cheater. It feels safer.
Absolutely in agreement to everything said here, Cooley. It's one of the reasons that I try to not post on other threads unless I have what to offer... this soon out from my DDays, I know that I don't have as much to objectively offer as other people here. I try not to channel my anger at anyone other than where and when it's due.

I just saw where your wife admits to seeing her AP during dating, engagement, and 5 times during the first year of marriage.
Is she talking about sex with him?

No, she's not talking about sex. Flirting in person at the bank he worked in at the time. Depositing checks and feeding her kibble-fix.
Thankfully, nothing else was deposited at those times.
She had sex with him while we were dating and while we were engaged. PA shifted into EA once we married.

it was SD who searched for the guy on LinkedIn, not her. And that it is a bank, and that it was in the evening when the bank is closed.

Correct on all counts. Further, it was a kosher (insanely overpriced) restaurant within an Orthodox-Jewish shopping center... not exactly inconspicuous.
FindMyiPhone works very well when used in conjunction with Google and/or other services.

however i have sincerely wished him well so we will leave it at that.

Surfs up. Have a good day.


I know that it was sincerely meant, which is why you didn't receive an insincere & cheeky reply 😉
I hope the surf you're referring to are waves of water, not waves of the rollercoaster. Either way, keep above those crests! 🤘

SorrowfulMoon posted 7/17/2019 20:04 PM

I think your whole approach is admirable SD. You are balanced and considerate toward your WS yet not weak or gullible, notwithstanding the questionable credulity of her lost memories.

This must be an extremely difficult position to be in to have a future wife cheat on you when courting and engaged both physically and emotionally and at least emotionally and make plans to do so physically when you were married. For her then to actually fall in love with you some two or so years after marriage is again heartbreaking and yet uplifting in a strange way.

I think she is a long way from being a remorseful wife but seems to recognise that and actually wants to be one. That is something many here do not have.

[This message edited by SorrowfulMoon at 8:07 PM, July 17th (Wednesday)]

66charger posted 7/17/2019 21:43 PM

Waves of water brother. Waves of water. 4-6 feet at Huntington with an occasional overhead.

I am teaching my wife how to surf and golf. She caught the fun and frustration bug. Her "fun" today has changed from GNO to catching a few waves after work/beach fire pit and beers/Grey Goose or sneaking in 9 holes before it gets dark. Our days end tired and peaceful, but never to tired for xyz. We both were you and your wife close to 20 years ago, but with different people.

Life changes. Keep that in mind.

SaddestDad posted 7/22/2019 20:31 PM

I think your whole approach is admirable SD. You are balanced and considerate toward your WS yet not weak or gullible, notwithstanding the questionable credulity of her lost memories.

I appreciate that very much, Sorrowful. I really do!

This must be an extremely difficult position to be in to have a future wife cheat on you when courting and engaged both physically and emotionally and at least emotionally and make plans to do so physically when you were married. For her then to actually fall in love with you some two or so years after marriage is again heartbreaking and yet uplifting in a strange way.

I think that this is probably the hardest part for me... even harder than the memory thing.
Every now and then, I wish (and actually verbalize to her), "Why did you say yes? Why put me through this? Did you really care that little about me at that time? At this point, when I ask it, it's more rhetorical than anything else. I don't look fir nor expect a response when I do... but when she does respond, she does so as humbly as possible.
I feel good and sad at the same time knowing that I played (and won) the pick-me dance without even knowing that I was playing it.

I think she is a long way from being a remorseful wife but seems to recognise that and actually wants to be one. That is something many here do not have.

I do agree, however, I so believe that she is not as far off as you feel. As you've said above, she seems to recognize that and is trying to fix herself. As GI Joe has said so many times, "knowing's half the battle."

Waves of water brother. Waves of water. 4-6 feet at Huntington with an occasional overhead.

I am teaching my wife how to surf and golf. She caught the fun and frustration bug. Her "fun" today has changed from GNO to catching a few waves after work/beach fire pit and beers/Grey Goose or sneaking in 9 holes before it gets dark. Our days end tired and peaceful, but never to tired for xyz. We both were you and your wife close to 20 years ago, but with different people.


That sounds amazing, 66! I personally have never been into surfing since I've got the bodily coordination of a bucket, but I've always enjoyed watching it. There's a certain gracefulness that is awe-inspiring while watching someone take on the power of nature head-on (literally).
Life changes. Keep that in mind.

Yeah, it sure does. If someone would've suggested on New Year's that I'd be going through this, I'd have thought they were nuts.

If someone would've told me in late-February that I'd be able to actually function from day to day (not always 100%, but at least not down to the 10% I was wobbling at), I'd have thought they were just too.

In 5 days is the anniversary of the first time she had a sexual liaison with POSOM during our engagement.
I'm petrified, but we intend to sexually take that day back (sorry popcorn-munchers, not going into detail lol).
My IC is on board and has advised me to call at any point, as my IC is expecting my rock-bottom to be hit at some point soon since I'm as date-oriented and sentimental as I am.

One day at a time...

SorrowfulMoon posted 7/22/2019 21:05 PM

"Why did you say yes? Why put me through this? Did you really care that little about me at that time?

I really have no clue either. What I do know is that people often make incredibly selfish decisions, me included, and when looking back bitterly regret them.

Bad decisions don't define you. What does is how you deal with the consequences and how you stop or alleviate them in the future.

There are many times when someone who I would regard as truly remorseful still cannot explain their actions in a way that is comprehensible if I put myself in the shoes of the BS.

I'm ok with forgiving the person eventually but never the act. It seems to me that the best you can do if you have a truly remorseful spouse is just accept that it happened and move on in order to function. That is not rug sweeping because you are making them accountable. It is just a way to preserve your sanity.

pureheartkit posted 7/23/2019 13:52 PM

You sound so much better than when you first came here. Believe in yourself and reach for all the good things in this world. Every day you're getting stronger SD so no longer are you the saddest of all, still, find those minutes to give yourself a break from sad thoughts.

I just came back from bigfoot country. It was a hoot and very beautiful. Thousand year old trees are amazing to be around. It's so green and cool. The mist rises in the treetops and seals play where the river meets the sea. It looks so ancient, you expect to see a dinosaur any minute walking down the trail.

SD go out and see something new. Just be amazed for a few days.

SaddestDad posted 7/24/2019 13:11 PM

Sorrowful:

What I do know is that people often make incredibly selfish decisions, me included, and when looking back bitterly regret them.
Bad decisions don't define you. What does is how you deal with the consequences and how you stop or alleviate them in the future.

There are many times when someone who I would regard as truly remorseful still cannot explain their actions in a way that is comprehensible if I put myself in the shoes of the BS.

I'm ok with forgiving the person eventually but never the act. It seems to me that the best you can do if you have a truly remorseful spouse is just accept that it happened and move on in order to function. That is not rug sweeping because you are making them accountable. It is just a way to preserve your sanity


I agree with everything above. The days (and method) that we're taking back are specifically are for my healing purposes, so that when I see those dates on the calendar in the future (I'm extremely sentimental, perhaps to a fault), I can latch onto the good memories instead of the knowledge of how I was specifically betrayed on those specific dates.


PHK:

You sound so much better than when you first came here. Believe in yourself and reach for all the good things in this world. Every day you're getting stronger SD so no longer are you the saddest of all, still, find those minutes to give yourself a break from sad thoughts.

You have no idea how much that means to see said in relation to me. It's reassuring to see that I'm not assuming that I'm doing better than in reality.

I just came back from bigfoot country. It was a hoot and very beautiful. Thousand year old trees are amazing to be around. It's so green and cool. The mist rises in the treetops and seals play where the river meets the sea. It looks so ancient, you expect to see a dinosaur any minute walking down the trail.

That sounds amazing! I'm sure you got some phenomenal landscape shots too while out there to throw up on some canvas!

SD go out and see something new. Just be amazed for a few days.

I wish I could. I haven't forgotten the advice you guys gave me on SI that I take a few days for a personal vacation with nobody other than me... but I just can't financially afford to do so (in either regard) at this time.
One day, some day!

Rustylife posted 7/25/2019 18:04 PM

Do you feel that you now have the broad timeline of her affairs? One point of contention was if she was physically intimate with him or anyone else after the marriage. Has that cleared up?

Glad to see that you have stablised and are doing well now. Hopefully the final outcome will be to your liking. Marriage is a constant work but it doesn't have to be a chore. Once this gets dealt with gradually , maybe you guys will build a truly great life together. I sometimes do think what I would have done if my XW had apologised and asked for another chance. I think I would have left but who knows? You can never guess what you'd do until you're into the situation. No easy answers.

[This message edited by Rustylife at 6:07 PM, July 25th (Thursday)]

SaddestDad posted 7/26/2019 18:24 PM

Do you feel that you now have the broad timeline of her affairs? One point of contention was if she was physically intimate with him or anyone else after the marriage. Has that cleared up?

I feel that I have the broad timeline of all of her affairs. I've only got the specific detailed timeline on the affair with main-POSOM.
It has, for the most part, been cleared up. I'm 98% sure that physicality never occurred once we were married. I'm leaving the 2% open purposely so that if I discover that I'm Gd forbid wrong, I won't be hurt in my mind as badly and would then move on (on many levels) from M easier.

Glad to see that you have stablised and are doing well now. Hopefully the final outcome will be to your liking. Marriage is a constant work but it doesn't have to be a chore. Once this gets dealt with gradually , maybe you guys will build a truly great life together. I sometimes do think what I would have done if my XW had apologised and asked for another chance. I think I would have left but who knows? You can never guess what you'd do until you're into the situation. No easy answers.

I'm glad it's been stabilizing way more.
I'm glad that I've been stabilizing way more.

Today was quite a dark day for me, as tomorrow is the date of the first time she had sex while she and I were engaged.
Due to such, tomorrow just very well may be the first sabbath that I do use my phone & access SI if it hits me as hard as I'm afraid of.

My IBS has been raging at me for the past 2 days with migraines and I'm pretty sure I increased the stock value on Cottonelle, but I'm going to do whatever it takes to remain calm and healthy.

She's also been doing everything she can to try to keep the darkness at bay for the past couple of days in addition to the "taking back" methods we decided upon together.

As for the what-if's... well, nobody will ever know.
One thing that I do know is that you, Rusty, have got the ability and desire to help others navigate through their own shitstorm.
If you think about it, what if she'd been apologetic immediately?
You may not necessarily have discovered & cultivated the ability had you chosen to rugsweep (before knowing what it was) & going into a (potentially false) R from the get-go and not have had the need to find SI.

Rustylife posted 7/26/2019 19:27 PM

It's your first infidelity season so your trepidation is understandable but in the future, I'd suggest not making these dates a big deal. Not everything has to be a grand gesture. Reclaim it once and then be done. Same with checking up on her at all times. It is exhausting and I can imagine it will get old fast for both of you.

Hypothetically, if I was a cheater and my partner was checking up on me all the time, it would've just worn me down and I would have left. Yeah, no way would I be the "ideal" WS so I do have some sympathy for WS who try to stick around and make a half hearted attempt.

And what's with your physical health man? So many issues in your 30s. Need to really work on this. Do you have some chronic issue? That must suck. If you try living a more disciplined life( no alcohol, drugs, sleep schedule, a daily workout plan, clean eating), it will improve. Mental health is a big part of it too. Avoiding excessive ruminations ,breathing techniques, meditation etc. US health system is way too eager to sell drugs for minor inconveniences which perpetuates this cycle of dependence. Living healthy can solve so much more.

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