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Shattered & Heartbroken

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SaddestDad posted 2/19/2020 15:33 PM

The amount of projection in this thread is higher than usual, I would say. So many posts just lashing and not helping SD.

Sadly, I've gotten used to it. It's been over a year of projected lash-outs and (if I had to guess) I think I've lost it on people less than half a dozen times.
Mostly, I feel bad for the ones who are (or were) clearly telling me that which they are incapable of telling themselves.

SD, I hope you can take the good contributions to your thread and filter off the angry posts.

I've been working on that. In fact... I've realized (thanks to having to filter due to the high proportion of the above) that one of the most difficult things that I currently face as a direct result of the insanely long period of TT is that I've lost my ability to rugsweep ANYTHING, whether A-related or in any other context.
Not being able to say, "ok this isn't such a big deal," is killing my motivation. It's like I can no longer "pick my battles."

Anyway... UPDATE: Last week, I finally scheduled in with a highly regarded psychiatrist for beginning of March. She kept me on the phone for a half hour before determining if my case is one she would accept. My parents have agreed to pay, as she does not take insurance because she's that good.

The job-hunt continues.

I've been experiencing ED again. I seem to be dissociative these days... an entire day can go by when I had planned a bunch of tasks to work on, only to not know where the time went & what I'd been doing all that time. Realizing such was the catalyst for me to finally schedule with this psychiatrist.

My IBS has been flaring up also, as anxiety and IBS share a vicious cycle of instigating each other.

The only things that I can say I've been truly succeeding at thus far are the following:

ē Bolstering my self body image
ē Meditating at least 2x a day
ē Staying hydrated
ē Being present for our kids

My sibling was just discharged from a week-long psych in-patient stay (second suicidal psych visit since NYE). Due to his (I'll use female pronouns in his presence out of respect but he's preop mtf on hormones) transition, I am the only one (other than my OTHER sibling who's also transitioning mtf) in my family to not have cut him out.

My father is having yet another round of surgery this week.

WW had a full-blown anxiety attack this past week while we were having a heated argument. I helped/talked her through it. She now comprehends a bit more as to what it has felt like for me on an (almost) daily basis & has a LOT more empathy for my dark days.

Last night I couldn't fall asleep until approx 530am & didn't wake up until 12pm from vivid dreams.

The rollercoaster is real.

WalkingHome posted 2/20/2020 11:12 AM

I read your thread and I am amazed at your resilience.


Having said that, I feel like it somewhat relates to something I learned in a prior life (career).


Human beings are built to survive. Evolution built the body and mind to do superhuman things when it comes to a "do this or die" situation. We can lift cars off our children...absorb huge injury...and live in torture for years...

However, the other side of that is that we can survive in a very warped version of ourselves. We may survive it but we likely won't be "right" in the body or mind.

The mind can process things that can't be processed, put them in a box, and convince the body that hot is cold, water isn't wet, and lies are truth- If that is what it takes for us to not die. POWs from wars were tortured for years, having limbs broken, amputations of fingers, burns, drownings, sleep deprivation, starvation...some survived this. An SAS soldier escaped from Iraq in the first gulf war, walking to Syria for days without water...he said he saw his little girl walking in front of him and reaching out for him, so he just followed her. His brain gave him what he needed to keep walking...even though it wasn't real.

They all generally went "crazy" to some degree in order to not accept/process the horror of what was happening to them. Their brain built survivable lies that kept the body alive. It built an alternate reality, where they wouldn't die.


You are a man of deep convictions. Your reality is horrible...truly horrible.

If you tried to accept all that horror, I don't know how anyone could be expected to survive it.


Your WW has lied so much, it is almost hard to know what is a lie and what is truth.


Your brain, perhaps subconsciously, is allowing you to believe what you need to believe in order to stay alive. The alternative, based on you knowing yourself, would be to accept the truth of her and her actions...which are unacceptable.


So, you believe what you must to stay where you want to be.


This isn't a new phenomenon. People in traumatic situations have done it forever.


It's not sustainable unless you want to go crazy and stay crazy. Long term...it can't stay that way. Accepting crazy as the norm won't save you forever.


There is a point where you have to make a choice to accept lies as truth or truth as true. Her tales of selective memory when it favors her are a blatant falsehood that helps you cope as you can then see her as part victim who is trying...rather than the perpetrator who knows what she is doing. The latter being too horrible to survive as you love her too much. She is sick and her sickness is infecting you.


You are in a very hard place but only so much as you keep yourself there. You are building the world you live in. You choose what you want to build it on...survivable falsehoods or perhaps survivable truth.

[This message edited by WalkingHome at 12:08 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

sisoon posted 2/20/2020 13:03 PM

Well, yeah, but what is the real truth that SD has to deal with?

Many times I've been convinced I was in touch with reality only to find out I wasn't.

We're on an anonymous Internet forum. We don't know each other or each other's environments. We can't possibly relate all the relevant information in our posts. We know only a miniscule fraction of the whole SD, and we know less of his W. Maybe he's kidding himself. Maybe not.

Hell, I know my W and my environment pretty well, and I could still be kidding myself.

You choose what you want to build it on...survivable falsehoods or perhaps survivable truth.
Ayup. Amen.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:04 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

SaddestDad posted 2/20/2020 21:08 PM

There is a point where you have to make a choice to accept lies as truth or truth as true.

Do you really think I'm unaware of such? Rhetorical question.

Her tales of selective memory when it favors her are a blatant falsehood that helps you cope as you can then see her as part victim who is trying...rather than the perpetrator who knows what she is doing.

The bolded section of the sentence above is exactly what I find ALMOST amusing, especially when you said it after commenting/complimenting my resilience.
As Sisoon succinctly pointed out:
we know only a miniscule fraction of the whole SD, and we know less of his W. Maybe he's kidding himself. Maybe not.

WalkingHome, Speculation about anything that requires a full in-depth analysis in all aspects of one's life isn't anything more than... well... speculation.

I'm really unsure as to why the focus keeps going back to her fucking memory/memories whenever I give an update regarding me and my current issues, tribulations and (meager) successes.

One thing that I AM sure about, however, is that in your 12 posts in the past 2 days, the underlying and not-so-subtle trend has been to tell BS' to D - even in the Reconciliation forum... I'm conversely (and ironically) not really sure why I'm even allowing this barrage of yours to get to me when I'm fully aware of said trend, which is obviously based upon your specific subjective approach.

If I read one more post directed at me regarding whether her memory issue is true or not, I'm going to snap on whoever it is & I don't even give a shit if that ends up getting me warned/banned by the admins.

You want to discuss repressed memories as an actual intellectual discussion/debate in terms of trauma and/or infidelity as a whole? Start a new thread. Take it to General so that you can have an objective discussion without rubbing it in my face on my own turf. Kay?

Sick of this shit.

SaddestDad posted 2/20/2020 21:09 PM

Oh, one more thing - to take a quote from the movie Green Street Hooligans:

If you've got a problem, mate... it's your fuckin' problem

End rant.
Going to go meditate.

66charger posted 2/20/2020 21:32 PM

I'm really unsure as to why the focus keeps going back to her fucking memory/memories whenever I give an update regarding me and my current issues, tribulations and (meager) successes.

Really? You have no idea why 99% of the readers who see your name pop up after a lengthy abscence think "Update. Another repressed memory recovered". People read what you write and that is what your updates usually say.

On the real, SaddestDad, when does it end?. Do you even know? This is a serious question. At what period of time do you feel the memory issue is no longer a factor? You have been married 5 years. Do you think her memory is clear from 4 years ago? 3 years ago? 2?.

I can buy a past memory loss, as long as the past was not yesterday.

Best to you brother...Rage if you want to.

[This message edited by 66charger at 9:57 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]

SaddestDad posted 2/20/2020 22:03 PM

"Update. Another repressed memory recovered". People read what you write and that is what your updates usualy say.

Charger, in the past update (yesterday) I mentioned nothing in regards to memories. As for that being a common update... well, keep in mind the simple fact that DDay #1 was a little over a year ago and that the most recent TT-DDay (DDay #6) was a little over a month ago. DDay #6 only came about due to her own efforts of trying to remember (every other DDay was due to my efforts to dig and she'd been fighting those efforts lock stock & barrel because she truly believed that I was trying to find more to be angry about as opposed to the real reason, which was to know the truth).
The fact that she did so of her own volition for the very first time - and used every tool at her disposal to do so - is something that I see as a positive thing. That's not just me talking - that's my gut speaking.

On the real, SaddestDad, when does it end?. Do you even know? This is a serious question. At what period of time do you feel the memory issue is no longer a factor? You have been married 5 years. Do you think her memory is clear from 4 years ago? 3 years ago? 2?

I don't understand the question... Do you mean to ask at what point will I say, "I don't want to fucking hear about your memory since it seems to be an excuse," or rather, how close into the present is believable and acceptable to me for her to not remember details?

Walloped posted 2/21/2020 05:58 AM

Hey SD,

Youíre asking people not to comment on whether your WWís repressed memory situation. I understand how frustrating for you that can be.

If I may, her memory is a huge part of your story. Her not remembering, then remembering, etc., has created a drip drip of multiple DDays for you over the past year. People are naturally skeptical of that as a real thing, even though it might very well be - Iím no psychiatrist. Because itís convenient and self-serving even if itís true. And the alternative to this is that sheís been consciously and deliberately lying to you in order to save herself and your M. This is not unheard of. We see it a lot here. And if that is true, well it provides tremendous insight into who your WW really is and itís important for you to see that so that if you choose R you at least know who youíre R-ing with. And of course in light of that information, you may decide to D. My point is not to cast aspersions. Itís to explain why folks here are commenting on this very issue.

I usually stay out of JFO now, but when I read here and from my own time in this forum, well-meaning 2x4ís are used to get a BS to see their WS for who he/she really is. Thatís a major goal. My sense is that people are not trying to be malicious, although it might feel that way to you, but are trying to help you. I donít think comments about your WW or D is agenda driven. I think itís you, your WW, and your situation driven.

Hang in there.

[This message edited by Walloped at 7:04 AM, February 21st (Friday)]

HellFire posted 2/21/2020 06:14 AM

When you say things like this, people believe you are in denial...

every other DDay was due to my efforts to dig and she'd been fighting those efforts lock stock & barrel because she truly believed that I was trying to find more to be angry about


Because she has been a member for nearly as long as you have, there's is no way she thought you were digging only to find things to be angry about. She has been told over, and over, that you are digging because you need to find the truth about what happened in your life,and your marriage. Because you are traumatized, because you are trying to prevent yourself from being more traumatized. That you need the truth. She was told that when she came here. And she was told that after every single D-Day. She knows why you need the truth. It has nothing to do with wanting to be angry. If you truly believe that she felt that way, then what is she even doing on this forum( Because she has been given the advice, to be honest, and why, at least a hundred times. Is she just not absorbing what's being said? I don't think so. She knows why the truth is important.

So yes, when you say things like the above, it causes people to believe that you are in denial as to what's going on in your situation. Nobody here wants to hurt you. Apologies, if we don't understand repressed memories, and we're skeptical. I mean come on. You are talking to an entire Forum full of people who have been continuously lied to by their Wayward spouse. Yours just happened to have an excuse, or a reason. We don't know. But you seem to believe it so that's great. And I don't say that with any snark. It is great. But you're going to have skeptical people commenting because that is the nature of this forum. They have been hurt, and traumatized, and they are trying to stop you from having any further pain.

You continue to defend your wife, and that's really great. But we are going to continue to defend you.

WalkingHome posted 2/21/2020 08:24 AM

If you don't want to talk about your WW's memory, that's ok.


It's your life. You do you.


Perhaps a better question is this-


How long are you going to live like this?

When is enough, enough?

Are you going to stay in this forever, perpetually riding this roller coaster of information/hurt/anger/sadness/acceptance/waiting for it again...?


What's your plan for the rest of your life?


Where are you going to make your stand and build your life after all this and do you want her in it, knowing what you know, and knowing that that pain will follow you like a shadow if you bring baggage?


You are in a very rough place with a lot of hurt that you don't deserve. You are a good man who deserves a better life than this. How are you going to get that life?


SaddestDad posted 2/21/2020 08:56 AM

I asked WW to read because I needed to take a step back and I was very intrigued as to what she'd say. She sent me the following (unedited) response:

I agree the memory issue canít be entirely ignored bc of all the digging it forced you to do. Even when I did it I couldnít investigate like you did. It was all consuming for you. It should have been for me too... Iím sorry I sat back and watched thinking it was futile bc there was nothing for you to find. Thatís what lead to multiple ddays and TT which was caused by the memory. Itís hard to ignore it entirely but what youíre asking is not to ignore the aftermath of what that memory repression caused but asking SI to stop playing Drís and therapists questioning if that repression is a real thing or not.
WalkingHomeís second post is also very true. You are the best man and didnít deserve an ounce of what I did

I was therefore incorrect (and presumptuous) when I wrote the following earlier:

she'd been fighting those efforts lock stock & barrel because she truly believed that I was trying to find more to be angry about

Either way...

Are you going to stay in this forever, perpetually riding this roller coaster of information/hurt/anger/sadness/acceptance/waiting for it again...?

No. Very much no.

How long are you going to live like this?

Only as long as it takes for my eventual and well-needed healing.

Where are you going to make your stand and build your life after all this and do you want her in it, knowing what you know, and knowing that that pain will follow you like a shadow if you bring baggage?

I'm alive, aren't I? I am therefore already making a stand and my life continues to be built even with stress-sweat and tears. And... Yes, I want her in it. D wouldn't remove the shadow nor baggage. R wouldn't either. Only I can remove the shadow and empty the luggage, when I'm finally capable and truly ready to.

You are in a very rough place with a lot of hurt that you don't deserve. You are a good man who deserves a better life than this. How are you going to get that life?

Thank you for the kind words. By the grace of Gd & with the help of my IC, MC & doctors, as well as SI... but only by my own hand and only with my direct and conscious willpower.

66charger posted 2/21/2020 12:36 PM

I don't understand the question... Do you mean to ask at what point will I say, "I don't want to fucking hear about your memory since it seems to be an excuse," or rather, how close into the present is believable and acceptable to me for her to not remember details?

HOw close into the present is believable or acceptable to you for her TO REMEBER EVERYTHING.

Almost everything you have discovered was from digging thru data. If you have "complete" data from 2,3 or 4 years ago, then you may be able to pinpoint when the affairs actually stopped, which should coincide with the end of her repressed memories. If you are comfortable with the "end date", then stop digging.

[This message edited by 66charger at 8:33 PM, February 21st (Friday)]

Cooley2here posted 2/21/2020 14:49 PM

Depression=staying in a rut=depression=staying in a rut.........
You are in a self defeating place due to trauma. It is affecting you physically, mentally and emotionally. Depression is an illness that sabotages the person by making it difficult to do anything but looping. I hope your new IC can get you started toward self actualization. One step in any direction is huge. Good luck.

redwing6 posted 2/21/2020 19:26 PM

Youíre asking people not to comment on whether your WWís repressed memory situation. I understand how frustrating for you that can be.

I'm Jewish...Ani Ger Yehudi. That being said, I am Conservatadox, SD will understand that. I lived in Pikesville, MD for 11 years. I am neither Ortho or Chassidic. BUT I have been privileged to be on the perifery of those subcultures of America. I fully understand the tremendous cultural/familial pressure that C4TB is/was under. She is expected to live her entire life at a certain level of behavior. She chose to...move past that. That would create in her mind a level of discordance that in my opinion would be enough to create serious issues. Her subconcious IMO was to suppress anything that came into conflict with her orthodox beliefs.

SD has done a superb job of being able to (as certain extent) forgive his wife's issues. We as a community need to move beyond his wife's issues and attempt to support him as he struggles with day to day living. All of us here have chosen our paths, for good or ill, just as he has chosen his.

SD, sir, I admire you for the progress you've made. I sincerely hope that you and your wife are able to complete the path that you've chosen. It's not an easy path, and it's fraught with minefields. I hope that you can, together move past this horrendous tragedy that has inflicted upon you. Good luck sir. I will continue to read your thread and, Baruch Hashem, hope you succeed.

SaddestDad posted 2/28/2020 13:07 PM

RedWing

I'm Jewish...Ani Ger Yehudi. That being said, I am Conservatadox, SD will understand that. I lived in Pikesville, MD for 11 years. I am neither Ortho or Chassidic. BUT I have been privileged to be on the perifery of those subcultures of America. I fully understand the tremendous cultural/familial pressure that C4TB is/was under. She is expected to live her entire life at a certain level of behavior. She chose to...move past that. That would create in her mind a level of discordance that in my opinion would be enough to create serious issues. Her subconcious IMO was to suppress anything that came into conflict with her orthodox beliefs.

That's definitely a possibility that has been considered months and months back when the realization of the memory issues came about.

SD, sir, I admire you for the progress you've made. I sincerely hope that you and your wife are able to complete the path that you've chosen. It's not an easy path, and it's fraught with minefields. I hope that you can, together move past this horrendous tragedy that has inflicted upon you. Good luck sir. I will continue to read your thread and, Baruch Hashem, hope you succeed.

Thank you! Amen and gam li'cha!

Cooley

Depressionstaying in a rutdepressionstaying in a rut.........
You are in a self defeating place due to trauma. It is affecting you physically, mentally and emotionally. Depression is an illness that sabotages the person by making it difficult to do anything but looping.

I know... it sucks. But I've got my first appointment with a psychiatrist to discuss and figure it all out and hopefully resolve it.

66Charger

Almost everything you have discovered was from digging thru data. If you have "complete" data from 2,3 or 4 years ago, then you may be able to pinpoint when the affairs actually stopped, which should coincide with the end of her repressed memories. If you are comfortable with the "end date", then stop digging.

This is true. I am comfortable with the "end date," and it does correlate with the memory repression. No memory issues occur regarding any time after her cheating ended.

UPDATES:
Yesterday was a rough one for us from mid-afternoon throughout the evening. I went dark due to having not been updated on something regarding our daughter's school situation & feeling like I'm once again helpless & lacking in control. I flooded & WW responded to specific things I was saying in unwise ways. We spoke for hours. We calmed down.

She initiated sex this morning to wake me up. I love that, but (not sure why) my entire body was painfully sensitive to the touch & I stopped the activity.

I was still dark for much of the morning, even with meditation.

I have an interview on Monday for a position at a local company which isn't commision/productivity-based salary. Spoke with CEO for about 30 minutes for initial call today & he wants me to meet with him and the COO!

Have my first appointment with psychiatrist on Tuesday.
Daughter was expelled from DAYCARE 2 days ago so my inlaws will watch her for Monday & Tuesday.
She might be able to go to a local special ed school that's local... she's bright as FUCK - it's purely behavioral, probably due to having a shitty "teacher" and, to be fair, probably due to the past year's volatility & unstable home environment. .. so now she needs to be lumped in together with kids that are on the spectrum & pick up THEIR bad behaviors?? Now SHE needs to be labeled as a "special" child? I feel guilty & as if it's my own fault that she is now going through this.

-‐

Question... Can stress and anxiety lead to skin being painful even when the touch is normally pleasurable??

redwing6 posted 2/28/2020 19:59 PM

Have my first appointment with psychiatrist on Tuesday.
Daughter was expelled from DAYCARE 2 days ago so my inlaws will watch her for Monday & Tuesday.
She might be able to go to a local special ed school that's local... she's bright as FUCK - it's purely behavioral, probably due to having a shitty "teacher" and, to be fair, probably due to the past year's volatility & unstable home environment. .. so now she needs to be lumped in together with kids that are on the spectrum & pick up THEIR bad behaviors?? Now SHE needs to be labeled as a "special" child? I feel guilty & as if it's my own fault that she is now going through this.

-‐Kids are sensitive to home life "imbalances". When mom and dad are...at wits end, children pick up on that and begin to act out in odd, and disturbing ways. I suspect that may be the situation here. She knows something is wrong, but doesn't know what. Once, you and WW get back on a more even keel, she'll settle down and will be much better behaved. Praying for you two.

betrayedafter20 posted 2/28/2020 21:19 PM

Dear SaddestDad,

I am new to this forum. This is the worst club to have to belong to but in the end we are here together.

I have not read all the posts - there were too many. I read the first, and the last few.

It seems you've made a bit of progress.

What I wanted to address: I am SO GLAD you are going to a psychiatrist and seeking IC. As someone else said - you are apparently in depression cycle that does not allow for you to make clear decisions and look for your own best interests.

You, like me, are codependent.

I was anti-medication for a long time until I survived my first dday after 15 years of marriage and then 2 diagnoses and multiple cancer treatments. At some point I recognized "okay a little help here - prayers are great but I'm losing my mind".

I went on an antidepressant called Pristiq for about 6 months - a very low dose because I was nervous about even taking one.

What I found was it took the constant anxiety and random unpredictable moments of despair way. (I was highly functioning before the meds but then in a moment - the trauma would come crashing in unexpectedly and I was a sobbing, needy mess with my WH - even though we were in R (false, I've just recently discovered) :(.

once I accepted it was okay to take an anti-depressant - magically - after a few more months - I was feeling calmer, my memory came back, I was making clearer decisions and I was just in general a little more comfortable.

there was a side effect that was bad for me (weight gain - which did not help for my already suffering questioning of my desireablity for WH) so I was in a hurry to get off of it but could truly see how it was helping.

What I've learned - that PTSD is a thing that can happen from events like this - you may be in a place where that is happening and so you are frozen in a cycle that you cannot/do not have the strength to move out of .

Sorry this turned into a total ramble. but your story sparked that I wanted to encourage you to explore the possibility of getting some temporary medicinal help, if it's offered, to gain some emotional and psychological strength and comfort - you may find yourself in a much better place with all this. It doesn't mean you are weak - take the help and see where it takes you - you can always stop.


I am off the meds now. Ironically after I stopped the meds the most recent Dday happened.

I am more equipped to handle it than ever before. On d-day I contemplated starting up my prescription again (she allowed me that option). I decided to try handling this without.

So far, so good. Because while I was on the meds the first time, I was working with my IC to learn the skills to handle things without. Make sense? Were it not for process I have experienced - in no way would I be handling what situation I am in now the same way.

Sorry it maybe sounds like I"m drug pushing but for your situation - as someone else said - you are in a rut... need to move out of the rut...it really could help you.

Prayers sent for you to get out of the rut, one way or another.

HardKnocks posted 2/28/2020 22:15 PM

Dear SaddestDad,

I've read most of your thread, and I want to say how truly sorry I am for your experience. I'm so amazed and impressed with your resilience, yet I know you are ony human.

This is a gentle reminder to stay safe. You wrote that you were recently at a dangerous low point emotionally, and at risk for suicide.

There is a lot of love and support here on SI, and also a lot of emotion. You posted that you feel pretty good at filtering the instances of projection and displaced anger. Good. I'd just like to advocate that you check-in with yourself about that from time to time. You taking any breaks? What's your IC saying about this?

Keep working that therapy and continue to build your insight, self-discovery, self-care, self-love. I think it's far more important than your WS right now. You know, it almost always is.

Take care!

oldtruck posted 2/29/2020 17:14 PM

saddestdad, what did your WW do to remember details
now that she could not remember before?

redwing6 posted 3/6/2020 18:06 PM

SD, Shabbat Shalom Aleichem!

I hope you are doing better. How have you been?

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