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Different perspective 2.0

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Marz posted 9/29/2019 22:23 PM

I wish the lessons would be over for me.

But you wouldn't have any hair like me

You'll be fine. You just have to get through it like everyone else.

[This message edited by Marz at 10:24 PM, September 29th (Sunday)]

Atg100 posted 9/30/2019 04:59 AM

I saw a good GP.
He thought that my sense of betrayal is so deep, as I used to validate myself via her love.
He thinks, if Iím more self confident, and work more on myself, the emergency contraception on her car seat wouldnít have been an issue.
True .
Essentially what other people here said and what I feel as well.
Getting there - is with no contact and work on myself .
He also prescribed melatonin , which is ok, I agree with a step wise approach .
I will see him again, if that doesnít work.
He recommended a couple of good books as well.

Freeme posted 9/30/2019 07:11 AM

I'm sorry but..

And there lies on the passenger seat : emergency contraception, the morning after pill, just picked up from the chemist.

Who does that? Leaves all that stuff out in the open when picking up their kids? A narcs that wants some ego kibbles from her ex husband, to know that she can still do things to get to him.

I'm sure it was for show and you played into it because you are human. Got to detach. Meeting random guys on tender and needed emergency contraception... at this age? With two kids? Is that something you would want to brag about? Be proud enough to display? She is desperate to get your attention. Doesn't want you but doesn't want to lose her hold on you either.

I'm sorry she will take it up a hitch next time and you should be prepared. Have you talked to her about how long you should be dating a person before you introduce them to the kids? I'm not saying she will stick to it but she might be more aware of the rule if she realized it applies to both of you... and that you might/could introduce the kids to another person.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. I also KNOW she isn't going to meet a quality person on tender and she seems desperate.

LizM posted 9/30/2019 11:45 AM

I used to validate myself via her love.

From what I've read about narcissists, they seek out highly empathetic people because those are the ones who will feed into their narcissism the best. It's great that you've been able to break free. Really inspiring to read your story, to see where you were when you first started the original "Different perspective" thread in comparison to where you are now.

If she does find a new boyfriend, it could actually be a good thing for you. Odds are, she'll pick a highly empathetic type (easy victim), so he'll be a decent guy for your kids, and he'll take some of her focus away from you. Of course you won't be able to warn him about her because she will have prepped him with lies about you. All you'll be able to do is pity him.

NoOptTo posted 9/30/2019 12:16 PM

You XWW is teaching you how to treat her. With each action she takes to get under your skin, you are learning to avoid her triggers. Here is a big one for you. During child exchanges, she is now responsible for loading and unloading her car of the children's things. You say goodbye to your kids away from her car and send them on there way. There is no need to interact with her during exchanges unless something concerning the kids themselves has happened. Then you ask her to walk away from her car so you can talk. Lessen the triggers, you lessen the opportunity for her to get under your skin.

Atg100 posted 9/30/2019 13:44 PM

Thank you all for the good advice.
It is pretty unbelievable what she does, but I can see that there will be something else, next time.
Still I think a large part of the problem lies within me and I should have shrugged it off. I couldnít at this stage.
I forgot to mention that the very next day , she texted me a couple of times about children related stuff and whilst my responses were short and factual, itís still some interaction in the middle of the lung transplant ward round, which I donít need.
That also needs to stop - telling her to email only hasnít worked in the past.
I will talk today to someone from a virtual assistant office.
And will ask her to send all texts and emails to my assistant instead of contacting me directly . Iím not sure if they can do that the way I need it, but it may be an option.

Marz posted 9/30/2019 14:56 PM

With this situation you're best option is grey rocking and parellel parenting.

Google both.

You do have to be consistent and be able to control yourself. Both are achievable.

A good friend of mine uses both techniques and it still took @ a year before she quit bugging or playing games.

It does normalize if you stay focused.

Marz posted 9/30/2019 14:58 PM

Who does that? Leaves all that stuff out in the open when picking up their kids?

From what I've seen its normal for a narc.

Expect more so you can deal with it effectively

66charger posted 9/30/2019 15:02 PM

Thanking everyone for their advice is not the same thing as taking it.

Asking her to change the method of communication is no different then reacting to the contraception on the car seat. Keep giving her power and she will take it. She was absolutely delighted in how you reacted to the plan B meds. Ignore Ignore Ignore. (I am talking about your STBX not posters on SI)

Honestly the best thing for you may be another woman.

DoinBettr posted 9/30/2019 15:04 PM

I might have some interesting advice that will probably be shot down. (Other posters, think about his responses and focus on his ex before you tell him to never date again.)
Why don't you put yourself on Tinder?
You don't track women down, or swipe. Let them swipe and come to you.
Also, you are a busy doctor who is really focused on his family. Mention that in your profile so people know you aren't looking hard. You sadly sound like you are trying to fill the validation you had from your wife with your kids. That is a dangerous game. As parents of teenagers.
So just have coffee with some random girl from Tinder, with no thoughts of romantic interactions. You aren't using her, the 2 of you are having a good conversation with low pressure as 2 adults with possible thoughts of dating. Then when you see the new guy your Ex has, you just shrug and think about the new dating you have in your life.
Maybe things advance, maybe they don't. It has been a few years since you started dating. If you keep letting fear you aren't ready hold you back, you will never join the dating pool. Dating sucks and is scary. But you have to try sometime. What is the timeline on that?
You mentioning rejection says you are letting that fear run things. Everyone has that fear. No one feels like they are enough in some way. You just confidently push on.
Maybe just see how that feels and use it as a thermometer on whether you can start talking to other women. The best way to get over your ex, get someone else to push her away.
Narcs hate getting that, "You aren't special" message by being replaced by, new and improved.
Expect Ex to have massive mood change then too.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 5:36 PM, September 30th (Monday)]

Atg100 posted 9/30/2019 15:09 PM

Marz - I think that is the most important insight into any of this.
Whenever I have thought in the past, that I can see what the situation is like, she comes up with something new.
Again, a large part of the problem is within me.
We have been separated for nearly a year, for all I know, she could have had hook-ups every weekend.
And the thought has never particularly bothered me.
But now, after a family holiday , being on my own with the kids, hearing that she is on tinder and seeing that she has unprotected sex with tinder hook ups- it hurts me disproportionally .
Rather than saying - ď this is her journey now, luckily Iím not part of it anymore ď do I allow her to get under my skin.
Because factually nothing has changed.
We live apart, if I would meet the right person, I would probably go on a date too ?? And she is an adult who is now separated for a year. Of course she will have a sex life.

Thatís why the GP yesterday was correct .
I allowed the original betrayal to become far too hurtful - he suspected that i need her validation for my self confidence .
I thought about it over night . Maybe , but I do think , what I want most , is to be in a family and seeing my kids every day, being a dad.
And for some screwed up reason, do I still subconsciously think, that she is the only way to get a family life back.

Atg100 posted 9/30/2019 15:16 PM

I have thought about that.
And surely even just a coffee with someone nice would be good for me.
My main problems are : I donít want to use people as a band aid. I donít know how another woman would fit into my family life. I am not at all prepared for rejection. Apart from that there are a lot of good reasons to do this .
Here in Australia there is Bumble , which asks women to make the first step/ swipe.
Iíd say that may be the way forward in the intermediate term.
Right now , I need to be happy within myself - and Iím not - once I have reached that, then I have something to give.

Marz posted 9/30/2019 15:45 PM

Right now , I need to be happy within myself - and Iím not - once I have reached that, then I have something to give.

IMO this is key. Learning and enjoying being alone will make you more complete and independence is a very attractive trait to have.

Playing head games with the X won't get you much.

You must learn to grey rock and parellel parent. Most do have trouble adjusting upfront but you will have to get through this.

Then you'll be fine. Your future is never gonna be tied to your X. It seems like you are still having trouble seeing her for who she is. Keeping that fantasy alive will just prohibit your growth out of this.

NoOptTo posted 9/30/2019 16:05 PM


FWIW, you have been handling yourself well, with class. You have have maintained your dignity through out this shitstorm you'll been dealing with. Yes, you are dealing with inner turmoil on why you cant let go of the thought of having your family intact. It's all part of your healing. Yes, your XWW will continue to find ways to keep you under her thumb of influence. You have made adjustments with previous behaviors. You will continue to make adjustments with her future behaviors. We have encouraged you to learn learn about greyrock, and you have already used it on her in intriguing positive way for you. You have limited exchanges previously, you need to continue with them. As for her texting you as opposed to emailing you, you control your answers. You have to ask yourself, do I need to answer this now? Is it vidally important to answer at all? Answer any text on YOUR time. If your working, work. It's not your time to be a parent. When you get off.from work, look at her messages. Ask do they need an answer now? Then either answer it at your convenience or ignore it. You take control of you answering her. Unless it's an emergency where a child needs medical attention, odds are you do not need to answer her back quickly. As goes if your out living your life, doing an activity or something. Unless it's a emergency, answer when you feel like. Let her wait. She has done it to you with your inquiries about D stuff. Start putting yourself first. Then your children. Your XWW has to become irrelevant in your life.

Atg100 posted 9/30/2019 16:48 PM

Noopto and Marz -
Thank you both.

I have also made another observation:
I followed a guided meditation this morning, which encouraged me to really look inside and see what my feelings are.
The level of hurt I experienced and the severe sense of betrayal is - because Iím still in love with this woman.

Before it rains 2x4s:

I needed to come to this realisation.
Here is SI, self protection, recognising abuse and in my case a partnerís narcissism is key to recovery.
No contact is the best wall of defense.
Admitting to love is - a weakness ?

I did quite well, when working with my lawyer : it is a logical environment, there are rules, figures. Something Iím familiar with, as a logical, highly functioning individual .
That shielded me from her abuse, because there is a rule set which I can logically accept as a frame work.

To deal with the fact that your narcissist ex is now a tinder slut, with not the slightest bit of empathy for her ex husband - there is no official rule set.
SI will look out for me ď run, as fast as you can!Ē
And that is the life saving advice I need.

But the message which was actually important is:
I am somebody who can love another person.
Because my love is not returned, quite the opposite , it is used as a weakness to abuse me, this love is poison.

But I think I needed to realise this, to allow me to let go of this love. If I am not honest to myself and see that this is what is inside, i canít deal with it.
Now I can.

DoinBettr posted 9/30/2019 17:44 PM

Right now , I need to be happy within myself - and Iím not - once I have reached that, then I have something to give.

I am going to just give you a little push again.
You need a time table. Set yourself a hard date. You can self reflect until the cows come home. Dating is messy and rejection hurts. Those are facts, but you are stronger than you think. Don't let those rocks stop you.
You have been separated from your wife for over a year. That is a lot of time alone. Too much time may curb you away from other people who will stretch you out of the comfort zone.
Try Bumble, just state you only want coffee. You aren't using the women like a bandaid. Women know what they are doing in dating or just having coffee. Don't try to white knight yourself out of this. They would love to just have a conversation with a guy not trying to push things too fast. You trying to have a buddy fellow affair victim should show you are lonely (Probably why you dwell on your ex).
Give this coffee thing a shot. I bet it surprises you. Plus there is no downside I see. If there is one, what is it?

NoOptTo posted 9/30/2019 18:03 PM

No 2x4 here. I understand that you still love your EXWW. I can say with certainty that I still have love for all my exGFs. Even the ones that cheated on me. I gave them of myself. I learned from my experiences with them. I thank them in my heart for helping me become the man I am today, married with children.

It's ok to love your EXWW. You shared Yeats together. Two wonderful children. The trick now is to admit to yourself, it's time to move on. Time to find healing of oneself. To understand that that she is flawed and not a good fit for you and your continued growth as a person. Eventually you will seek another. If you put the time in to evaluate your past relationships, see where you have grown, see what traits you want to avoid, see what traits you need to be happy with another. Someone will walk into your life and you will find happiness. But it all starts will being happy with yourself.

I hope you take time to find yourself through all this. Dealing with an ex that wants to control you isnt easy. So brush up on your greyrock skills and even parallel parent rather then co-parent if you need to. And always be the best dad you can be.

steadychevy posted 9/30/2019 18:21 PM

It's been a year since you've registered, Atg. Since then there hasn't been a little water under the bridge. It's a raging torrent.

I consider that you've done very well. You've recognized so many things about her and about yourself. And about your parents. You continue to be a very good Dad and I'm not sure your STBXWW is being a very good Mom. Sure, you've not acted according to the script given you here all the time. However, in my mind, that makes you a normal, caring, valuable person.

In your last post you stated that you are a person who can love another person. That is valuable. You are capable and your STBXWW threw that away. There are other women out there, the majority in fact, who would see this as a powerful attribute. Continue with being of high character and integrity.

Personally, I wouldn't register on Tinder. If your STBXWW is on Tinder she will see your post and, potentially, use it against you in various ways. Narc = you will pay and I will win. I also think there will be better ways to meet women, when the time is right, that you will want to share time with. (Course, I'm old and still have a flip phone so social media isn't something I subscribe to.)

Unfortunately for you there will be continued contact with your STBXWW because of your children. Fortunately for your children they will still have you.

Onward and upward, Atg.

Atg100 posted 9/30/2019 20:02 PM


Thanks for the push; you are correct.
Next year, our childcare agreement will change to one week on, one week off.
Currently I have them on most weekends, by choice.
So my my mental timeline was always - 2020, I will have healed and start dating.
I felt encouraged by your words however - and will make some initial steps .
I have a friend who is a photographer . He is away , but after his return mid October , he will do some portrait shots and headshots for this purpose.
A female friend has offered me in the past to help me with dating profile , she is younger and far more uptodate then I am.
I will give it a try in a few weeks

Marz posted 9/30/2019 20:22 PM

The good thing is you know what your problem is.

If you don't know that then you sure as hell cant fix it,

I think you are onto something here.

Keep going with it.

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